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Author Topic: Diablo Mining Company  (Read 87128 times)
Monster Tent
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February 17, 2013, 11:40:49 PM
 #881

So bottomline is that people who bought DMC shares with cash at IPO have lost the bulk of their investment, but those who got them from trading with you have broken even or made a profit?

IF the people who bought at 1.0 BTC agreed for you sell/trade more at far lower prices then they only have themselves to blame for having the value of their shares diluted down by over 90%.  Agreeing to that was sheer lunacy on their part(if they did - I wasn't watching at the time so never checked for votes on GLBSE).

The people who bought at full price fit into two categories. 1) They believe the original plan is sound and want to invest in DMC 2.0, 2) They didn't agree with the discount plan and sold out early in the 0.90s.

GLBSE motions didn't work right yet at that time, so this was an informal motion. Almost all the original shareholders I personally knew on IRC, so it was easy to get done.

Ones who sold out at  0.9 are the smart lucky ones. Rest of them got fucked and lost over 98% share price.  
BTW, if I recall, DMC lost more of its value than defaulted scammer Trendon Shavers pass through crap (before GLBSE closed).
Why don't you buy that crap back from me at price you sold it to me?
 

You've refused to list a sell order on the exchange for that price, and you also have demanded to get ahead in line. Shares will be bought back according to what price they are being sold at. You threw a hissy fit on IRC because you think you should get preferential treatment over other shareholders.

You have tried to claim that 1.00 (the IPO price) to 0.03 (the floor during the nefario incident) means I lost 97% of the money put into DMC. Since virtually all shares were never even sold at full IPO price due to trading, this claim is false. The mid-mortem I wrote up above details approximately how much was put in, how much was paid out, and approximately how much the assets are valued.

When DMC finally buys back all the shares, we will most likely break even. If the minimum of 1691 BTC went in, 1105 + 90 BTC have been paid out, and our assets are at least worth 496 BTC, we break even. If the maximum of 1966 BTC went in, 1105 + 90 BTC have been paid out, and our assets are worth at least 771 BTC, we break even.

I want to make sure the remaining shareholders get as much out of these assets as possible. Neither ASICMINER nor BTCMC can be sold yet, and Namworld is still fighting amazingrando on BTC-MINING so that might not be a complete loss.


Let me make you a really simple "painting" of what has happened   

100 shares, assets are 100 lollipops - NAV 1 lollipop per share so for this game, lets say the NAV is 1 lp

Now, if you take 10 lollipops, and stick them up your arse, those lollipops are bad... not good now. Understand it?
So you have 100 shares, 90 lollipops and your shares NAV is .. lets say it all together ... yes, wipe that drool off your chin... and lets say it together now: "0.9" . Good boy.  Lets move on.
Right. So you managed to waste 10 lollipops and your shareholders are not happy.
No problem dear D3, you just take another 50 lollipops and flush those down the toilet. Do not worry, you can blame that on this Other Guy.
And so on and on,  until you have 0.03 fkn lollipops per share. 
If you sold shares later at 0.11 and bought that shit back.... SO FKN WHAT! You fucked everyone, who was supporting your from the day one.

This is partly why no one takes you seriously.

Lets say I have 3 shares. I sell 1 share for 10 lollipops. With permission of the first shareholder, I sell the next share for 5, and the next for 2. I have a total of 17. According to your math, I have instantly lost 13 lollipops, even though they never actually existed.

I then hand back 10, 5, and 2 lollipops to the original investors, respectively. I have handed back a total of 17 lollipops, the original number I was handed.

You're the guy with 6 who thinks he should get more than he originally put in, even though neither the guy with 10 or the guy with 2 are getting more than they put in.


The main problem is you did a bait and switch during your IPO and instead of a mining company that would build its own datacentre and hold assets you turned it into an ETF which destroyed more value than a hooker getting AIDS.

There was no motion to change the original business plan into an ETF which you chose to do all by yourself.


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February 18, 2013, 12:12:41 AM
 #882

Lets say I have 3 shares. I sell 1 share for 10 lollipops. With permission of the first shareholder, I sell the next share for 5, and the next for 2. I have a total of 17. According to your math, I have instantly lost 13 lollipops, even though they never actually existed.

I then hand back 10, 5, and 2 lollipops to the original investors, respectively. I have handed back a total of 17 lollipops, the original number I was handed.

You're the guy with 6 who thinks he should get more than he originally put in, even though neither the guy with 10 or the guy with 2 are getting more than they put in.

Problem with that is that shares are fungible.  So you can't give back based on what people put in.  In your example all three of the guys would get 5.667 lollipops meaning the one who put in 10 lost out to the ones who put in 5 and 2.

Everyone's meant to pay the same amount of lollipops - that's where you made a basic mistake.  Some adjustment of the price is unavoidable - but to go from putting in 10 lollipops to putting in 0.2 is just silly.

I haven't suffered any personal loss - the bunch of DMC I now hold were bought at just over 0.02 each on average.  But my profit when I convert those to ASIC-MINER and sell them hasn't come (as it should have) from great management of the fund.  It's come from massive dilution of share value, coupled with investors totally losing confidence - meaning my profit is really coming from other investors who invested earlier.  And that's not a success for DMC, no matter how you spin it.

I bought those shares when they were heavily undervalued.  I'm puzzled why all these people you think want to invest in DMC 2 weren't snapping them up - just the ASICMINER were plainly worth more than the price I managed to buy at.  Actually I lie - I'm not puzzled at all : you should figure out the reason for it and what it tells you.
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February 18, 2013, 12:19:25 AM
 #883

Lets say I have 3 shares. I sell 1 share for 10 lollipops. With permission of the first shareholder, I sell the next share for 5, and the next for 2. I have a total of 17. According to your math, I have instantly lost 13 lollipops, even though they never actually existed.

I then hand back 10, 5, and 2 lollipops to the original investors, respectively. I have handed back a total of 17 lollipops, the original number I was handed.

You're the guy with 6 who thinks he should get more than he originally put in, even though neither the guy with 10 or the guy with 2 are getting more than they put in.

Problem with that is that shares are fungible.  So you can't give back based on what people put in.  In your example all three of the guys would get 5.667 lollipops meaning the one who put in 10 lost out to the ones who put in 5 and 2.

Everyone's meant to pay the same amount of lollipops - that's where you made a basic mistake.  Some adjustment of the price is unavoidable - but to go from putting in 10 lollipops to putting in 0.2 is just silly.

I haven't suffered any personal loss - the bunch of DMC I now hold were bought at just over 0.02 each on average.  But my profit when I convert those to ASIC-MINER and sell them hasn't come (as it should have) from great management of the fund.  It's come from massive dilution of share value, coupled with investors totally losing confidence - meaning my profit is really coming from other investors who invested earlier.  And that's not a success for DMC, no matter how you spin it.

I bought those shares when they were heavily undervalued.  I'm puzzled why all these people you think want to invest in DMC 2 weren't snapping them up - just the ASICMINER were plainly worth more than the price I managed to buy at.  Actually I lie - I'm not puzzled at all : you should figure out the reason for it and what it tells you.

That fine till he trades away all the ASICMINER shares for worthless shares in other companies in the same way he gave away all the bitcoins he raised in  the IPO to other companies .

If he still had the bitcoins hes supposed to have the shareholders would be on their way to having actual assets to show for the investment.

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February 18, 2013, 02:50:10 AM
 #884

The main problem is you did a bait and switch during your IPO and instead of a mining company that would build its own datacentre and hold assets you turned it into an ETF which destroyed more value than a hooker getting AIDS.

There was no motion to change the original business plan into an ETF which you chose to do all by yourself.



Except I never changed it into an ETF. I was using mining bonds to fulfill the mining part of the plan until the datacenter was constructed and mining equipment could be placed into it. At no time was the datacenter taken off the table.

DMC 2.0 is going to continue pursuing the original plan.

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February 18, 2013, 02:57:18 AM
 #885

Lets say I have 3 shares. I sell 1 share for 10 lollipops. With permission of the first shareholder, I sell the next share for 5, and the next for 2. I have a total of 17. According to your math, I have instantly lost 13 lollipops, even though they never actually existed.

I then hand back 10, 5, and 2 lollipops to the original investors, respectively. I have handed back a total of 17 lollipops, the original number I was handed.

You're the guy with 6 who thinks he should get more than he originally put in, even though neither the guy with 10 or the guy with 2 are getting more than they put in.

Problem with that is that shares are fungible.  So you can't give back based on what people put in.  In your example all three of the guys would get 5.667 lollipops meaning the one who put in 10 lost out to the ones who put in 5 and 2.

Everyone's meant to pay the same amount of lollipops - that's where you made a basic mistake.  Some adjustment of the price is unavoidable - but to go from putting in 10 lollipops to putting in 0.2 is just silly.

I haven't suffered any personal loss - the bunch of DMC I now hold were bought at just over 0.02 each on average.  But my profit when I convert those to ASIC-MINER and sell them hasn't come (as it should have) from great management of the fund.  It's come from massive dilution of share value, coupled with investors totally losing confidence - meaning my profit is really coming from other investors who invested earlier.  And that's not a success for DMC, no matter how you spin it.

I bought those shares when they were heavily undervalued.  I'm puzzled why all these people you think want to invest in DMC 2 weren't snapping them up - just the ASICMINER were plainly worth more than the price I managed to buy at.  Actually I lie - I'm not puzzled at all : you should figure out the reason for it and what it tells you.

You're right, its a little messy because people aren't getting paid back what they originally put in because they want their money now instead of when they'd normally get it. That is their choice, however, I am not forcing them to sell their shares for less than they purchased them for.

I never claimed DMC was a success. I should have accepted USD investments as well as BTC, except DMC just wasn't ready for that yet. It would have raised money much faster and we could be already on our way to accept customers. DMC 2.0 probably will accept USD investments as well.

Also, I do agree that I shouldn't have listened to early shareholders and sold IPO shares at less than 1.0. At the time, their arguments sounded like a good idea, however none of them had any actual business expertise and I should have realized it was a bad idea. I want to believe they had their hearts in the right place, though.

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February 18, 2013, 02:58:55 AM
 #886

That fine till he trades away all the ASICMINER shares for worthless shares in other companies in the same way he gave away all the bitcoins he raised in  the IPO to other companies .

If he still had the bitcoins hes supposed to have the shareholders would be on their way to having actual assets to show for the investment.

Read the mid-mortem report. Before nefario decided to shit all over the community, DMC was turning a profit before the mvp was completed.

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February 20, 2013, 07:42:50 AM
 #887

I've reconsidered your request for the trade. I'll trade 11 DMC for 1 ASICMINER

Would you do 8 ASICMINER shares for 83 DMC shares?

No, but I'll do it for 88. The shares are cheap on Bitfunder, get them while you still can.

77 for 7 then. Let me know how I should proceed.

I'm going to keep a list of trade offers. ASICMINER prices could peak above 1 BTC, so this is a great deal.

Scratch my previous trade offer, I just realized I have 88, not 83. I'll trade 88 DMC for 8 ASICMINER.

Time is more valuable than money. You can get more money, but you cannot get more time.
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February 27, 2013, 09:35:48 AM
 #888

How's the promised buy-back going?

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
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February 27, 2013, 09:39:54 AM
 #889

How's the promised buy-back going?

ASICMiner should be issuing their first dividend soon.

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February 27, 2013, 09:43:22 AM
 #890

How's the promised buy-back going?

ASICMiner should be issuing their first dividend soon.

Can you answer the question?

https://bitfunder.com/asset/DMC

Asset Name   DMC
Asset Issuer   Diablo-D3
Shares Total   11,579
Shares Issued   11,579
Pays Dividends   Yes
Issuer may Increase Shares:   No

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
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February 27, 2013, 09:49:54 AM
 #891

How's the promised buy-back going?

ASICMiner should be issuing their first dividend soon.

Can you answer the question?

https://bitfunder.com/asset/DMC

Asset Name   DMC
Asset Issuer   Diablo-D3
Shares Total   11,579
Shares Issued   11,579
Pays Dividends   Yes
Issuer may Increase Shares:   No


I answered your question.

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February 27, 2013, 10:14:56 AM
 #892

How's the promised buy-back going?

ASICMiner should be issuing their first dividend soon.

Can you answer the question?

https://bitfunder.com/asset/DMC

Asset Name   DMC
Asset Issuer   Diablo-D3
Shares Total   11,579
Shares Issued   11,579
Pays Dividends   Yes
Issuer may Increase Shares:   No


I answered your question.


Let me rephrase that: How many shares have been bought back after the DMC relisting on bitfunder?
How many shares did you list on bitfunder to begin with?

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
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February 27, 2013, 10:42:59 AM
 #893

How's the promised buy-back going?

ASICMiner should be issuing their first dividend soon.

Can you answer the question?

https://bitfunder.com/asset/DMC

Asset Name   DMC
Asset Issuer   Diablo-D3
Shares Total   11,579
Shares Issued   11,579
Pays Dividends   Yes
Issuer may Increase Shares:   No


I answered your question.


Let me rephrase that: How many shares have been bought back after the DMC relisting on bitfunder?
How many shares did you list on bitfunder to begin with?


0, 11579. Your original question implied you cared about actually getting it done.

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February 27, 2013, 11:09:15 AM
 #894

...

0, 11579. Your original question implied you cared about actually getting it done.

So you have done exactly nothing!? Your "I am buying back shares blaa blaa blaa" is just "blaa blaa blaa" as expected.
DiabloD3, you can stfu now.

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
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February 27, 2013, 11:18:10 AM
 #895

...

0, 11579. Your original question implied you cared about actually getting it done.

So you have done exactly nothing!? Your "I am buying back shares blaa blaa blaa" is just "blaa blaa blaa" as expected.
DiabloD3, you can stfu now.


You do realize BTCMC and ASICMiner dividends are funding the buy back, right? BTCMC pays dividends once a month, ASICMiner has not paid its first dividend yet.

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March 02, 2013, 05:02:51 AM
 #896

Active shares: 11,393
Dividends paid out today: 23.63967749 BTC
Dividends per share paid out today: 0.00207493  BTC

Dividends paid out for all time: 114.02708295 BTC
Dividends paid out for all time per share: 0.0292967163171353 BTC

Assets held:
106 BTC-MINING
1000 BTCMC
1000 ASICMINER

Dividends:
15.00 BTC from BTCMC
23.54454 BTC from DMC's ASICMINER shares
8.73502434 BTC from my ASICMINER shares

Progress:
1691 to 1966 BTC paid into DMC
1015 BTC returned for 9,330 shares
8.95 BTC returned for 186 shares
114.02 BTC dividends paid

553.03 to 828.03 BTC still owed


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March 02, 2013, 06:26:47 AM
 #897

Active shares: 11,393
Dividends paid out today: 23.63967749 BTC
Dividends per share paid out today: 0.00207493  BTC

Dividends paid out for all time: 114.02708295 BTC
Dividends paid out for all time per share: 0.0292967163171353 BTC

Assets held:
106 BTC-MINING
1000 BTCMC
1000 ASICMINER

Dividends:
15.00 BTC from BTCMC
23.54454 BTC from DMC's ASICMINER shares
8.73502434 BTC from my ASICMINER shares

Progress:
1691 to 1966 BTC paid into DMC
1015 BTC returned for 9,330 shares
8.95 BTC returned for 186 shares
114.02 BTC dividends paid

553.03 to 828.03 BTC still owed



What's the remaining wallet balance?  I notice you've paid some of the received dividends out and bought back shares with some - but some is, as yet, unused/unaccounted for.
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March 02, 2013, 07:32:14 AM
 #898

Active shares: 11,393
Dividends paid out today: 23.63967749 BTC
Dividends per share paid out today: 0.00207493  BTC

Dividends paid out for all time: 114.02708295 BTC
Dividends paid out for all time per share: 0.0292967163171353 BTC

Assets held:
106 BTC-MINING
1000 BTCMC
1000 ASICMINER

Dividends:
15.00 BTC from BTCMC
23.54454 BTC from DMC's ASICMINER shares
8.73502434 BTC from my ASICMINER shares

Progress:
1691 to 1966 BTC paid into DMC
1015 BTC returned for 9,330 shares
8.95 BTC returned for 186 shares
114.02 BTC dividends paid

553.03 to 828.03 BTC still owed



What's the remaining wallet balance?  I notice you've paid some of the received dividends out and bought back shares with some - but some is, as yet, unused/unaccounted for.

Approximately 5.96 BTC is currently in reserve.

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March 11, 2013, 02:49:45 AM
 #899

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Having two exchanges do it is great for us - as it forces them to compete both on terms and on price: they both want to attract users more than make a profit on ASICMINER, so we get pass-throughs at no cost (BitFunder) or very small cost (BTC.CO).

We also need the ability to trade options.

Diablo3d should lend his shares to MPEX to create an AM derivative market.

Doing so would reverse the current situation, where DMC shares sell for less than 1/11th of AM-PT.

*crossposts*

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Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
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Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


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It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
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Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

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March 11, 2013, 11:15:51 AM
 #900

Quote
Having two exchanges do it is great for us - as it forces them to compete both on terms and on price: they both want to attract users more than make a profit on ASICMINER, so we get pass-throughs at no cost (BitFunder) or very small cost (BTC.CO).

We also need the ability to trade options.

Diablo3d should lend his shares to MPEX to create an AM derivative market.

Doing so would reverse the current situation, where DMC shares sell for less than 1/11th of AM-PT.

*crossposts*

No need to get that pompous egomaniac involved. His one stock wunder-bazaar adds no value for the shareholders nor BTC community. It introduces another expensive layer or "brokers" between the BTC community and options trade. Zero real value. This is exactly what bitcoin community must avoid.
Btct.co and bitfiunder can probably offer options soon, are transparent and open to everybody.

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
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