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Author Topic: [ANN][SLR] SolarCoin | PoW to PoS v. 2.0 | Solar Proof of Generation (§1 = 1MWh)  (Read 432611 times)
barabbas
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February 06, 2015, 06:52:15 AM
 #1061

You guys are making this so incredibly and unnecessary complicated that it is ultimately, sadly, quite off-putting. No one, no one sane, let alone even slightly interested in understanding what SolarCoin is and wants to achieve, would even remotely attempt to go through the incredible amount of blabber  posted just in this last page. What a pity.

If you can't make your pits in 15 seconds or less, you don't have anything worth pitching.  

Chances are pretty good you've never read this book then...  Roll Eyes



What you see is what you get, take it or leave. Rest is BS.

But I thought we are here to promote the spread of usage of solar energy, unless I am mistaken... you seem to want to play games instead....
 ok.

It is a concern to me that ANY individual coming in here, that could be interested in solar energy for his home and could be interested in some kind of beneficial angle of doing so, through solarcoin, will be lost after the first paragraphs of the OP and, if he/she goes on and read the "latest developments" of this project, will actually hate himself/herself for even contemplate the possibility of ever pay the slightest attention to the enormous amount of fluff posted.

Anywhere at all that anyone will get, clearly AND SUCCINTLY explained, 1mgw = 1solarcoin and what in figures that anyone can understand, WILL that mean from day one? Where and how to claim it -perhaps with a little infographic aid-, would also help AND, no doubt, would clarify the bigger picture for every one.

After that, back to the games by all means...

Solar adopters are already used to counter intuitive technology. If you aren't, you aren't part of the target market.

Is that understandable in 15 seconds or less?

Very. Except that if I have followed this project for over a year now, close enough to put it in my WALL OF HONOR, and yet I get lost in all the mumbo jumbo, it isn't that I am not part of the target market (that I am, as a home owner in the place with more solar hours per year probably in the entire world), it is that there is no target market.

Think about that for 15 seconds or less.

And, by the way, arrogant attitudes, from the people that represent the project, are a total no-no...
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y_virtual
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February 06, 2015, 07:10:26 AM
 #1062

You guys are making this so incredibly and unnecessary complicated that it is ultimately, sadly, quite off-putting. No one, no one sane, let alone even slightly interested in understanding what SolarCoin is and wants to achieve, would even remotely attempt to go through the incredible amount of blabber  posted just in this last page. What a pity.

If you can't make your pits in 15 seconds or less, you don't have anything worth pitching.  

Chances are pretty good you've never read this book then...  Roll Eyes



What you see is what you get, take it or leave. Rest is BS.

But I thought we are here to promote the spread of usage of solar energy, unless I am mistaken... you seem to want to play games instead....
 ok.

It is a concern to me that ANY individual coming in here, that could be interested in solar energy for his home and could be interested in some kind of beneficial angle of doing so, through solarcoin, will be lost after the first paragraphs of the OP and, if he/she goes on and read the "latest developments" of this project, will actually hate himself/herself for even contemplate the possibility of ever pay the slightest attention to the enormous amount of fluff posted.

Anywhere at all that anyone will get, clearly AND SUCCINTLY explained, 1mgw = 1solarcoin and what in figures that anyone can understand, WILL that mean from day one? Where and how to claim it -perhaps with a little infographic aid-, would also help AND, no doubt, would clarify the bigger picture for every one.

After that, back to the games by all means...

Solar adopters are already used to counter intuitive technology. If you aren't, you aren't part of the target market.

Is that understandable in 15 seconds or less?

Very. Except that if I have followed this project for over a year now, close enough to put it in my WALL OF HONOR, and yet I get lost in all the mumbo jumbo, it isn't that I am not part of the target market (that I am, as a home owner in the place with more solar hours per year probably in the entire world), it is that there is no target market.

Think about that for 15 seconds or less.

And, by the way, arrogant attitudes, from the people that represent the project, are a total no-no...



Hi guys! Well.. usually that's what happens when there are technical details to be taken care of on each and every step of the project, and... they are all here, in this forum - I mean - there is no other place for them to be. And of course, OF COURSE no one else but the individuals actually working on these specifics is, or should be interested, and these details are not even meant for any one else to see and go through reading them - but that's how it is - this is the place where they are being worked through and solved. So yeah, dealing with the tech issues makes you somehow forget about the people who need completely different type of information, and then one can also start to sound arrogant - but that is NOT what it all looks like, that's the truth.

All information needed for claimants to get to know the project and claim their SLR is already out there, on the website, anything that changes there does get mentioned here, too, but again - it's the actual work on the ideas and the details, all of them, which are covered in this forum, so if one makes some statistics on the percentage of tech talk vs. other talk - tech talk naturally prevails at this stage of the project.

So let's go ahead and have fun doing what we are doing best, each and every one of us, and all together.
Thanks!
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February 06, 2015, 02:43:48 PM
 #1063

Let's have some fun, shall we? A little thought exercise to see just how clever all of our "traders" really are!

Guidelines:

1. Anyone can participate and share thoughts and ideas.
2. Discuss differing opinions in a constructive way but try and stick to the premise.
3. Differentiate trade ideas based on both theoretical AND practical.
4. Only play along if it excites you. Cheesy

Premise: The following chart shows, from a purely technical/graphical perspective, what appears to be a widened spread (red circle). Typically this is viewed as an indicator that there is a potential trade to be made.

Questions up for discussion:

1. What is that trade? (theoretical)
2. How can it be executed? (practical)



IMPORTANT: I will not be trading or participating because I just decided to offer a §20,000 bounty for the post I deem to be the most thoughtful by Sunday (February 8 ) at say 8:00 PM EST.

The only trade i see here is to buy large amounts of solar and hold for over a year for tax purposes and then sell enough to cover your fiat debt one day if it reaches $1 the rest hold on to Smiley and live off the dividends...

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February 06, 2015, 10:17:21 PM
 #1064

Let's have some fun, shall we? A little thought exercise to see just how clever all of our "traders" really are!

Guidelines:

1. Anyone can participate and share thoughts and ideas.
2. Discuss differing opinions in a constructive way but try and stick to the premise.
3. Differentiate trade ideas based on both theoretical AND practical.
4. Only play along if it excites you. Cheesy

Premise: The following chart shows, from a purely technical/graphical perspective, what appears to be a widened spread (red circle). Typically this is viewed as an indicator that there is a potential trade to be made.

Questions up for discussion:

1. What is that trade? (theoretical)
2. How can it be executed? (practical)



IMPORTANT: I will not be trading or participating because I just decided to offer a §20,000 bounty for the post I deem to be the most thoughtful by Sunday (February 8 ) at say 8:00 PM EST.

The only trade i see here is to buy large amounts of solar and hold for over a year for tax purposes and then sell enough to cover your fiat debt one day if it reaches $1 the rest hold on to Smiley and live off the dividends...

Isn't the market cap a function of the USD/BTC market? Since BTC has dropped to the $200-level over the last couple months, wouldn't that explain the gap in your graph? Am I missing something?
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February 07, 2015, 01:17:28 AM
 #1065

Let's have some fun, shall we? A little thought exercise to see just how clever all of our "traders" really are!

Guidelines:

1. Anyone can participate and share thoughts and ideas.
2. Discuss differing opinions in a constructive way but try and stick to the premise.
3. Differentiate trade ideas based on both theoretical AND practical.
4. Only play along if it excites you. Cheesy

Premise: The following chart shows, from a purely technical/graphical perspective, what appears to be a widened spread (red circle). Typically this is viewed as an indicator that there is a potential trade to be made.

Questions up for discussion:

1. What is that trade? (theoretical)
2. How can it be executed? (practical)



IMPORTANT: I will not be trading or participating because I just decided to offer a §20,000 bounty for the post I deem to be the most thoughtful by Sunday (February 8 ) at say 8:00 PM EST.

Market Cap is contingent upon the amount of Shares/Coin in Circulation vs the trading price which should equal the value of the company on the books. Since there is no Company Assets involved with SLR, Market Cap is set by what the trades are and does not have a profit loss basis to go by.
So using Market Cap at all on this Graph to figure out if a trade will happen in order to adjust to where you think the price should be in the fact that it is undervalued or overvalued means you may as well flip a coin. The trade may happen but going up or down is why you would want to know if a trade would happen at all.

Send the 20K to my SLR Wallet 8UekydfG2HNccLU485Dtjpx9mhgQfUki3W
Oh and I promise I won't sell them either. I would trade for Solar Panels only...
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February 08, 2015, 10:37:09 AM
 #1066

Have you given some thought to adding a premium onto grant payouts adding extra Solarcoin from donations? Is this something that can be easily implemented?


Yes there is currently a referrral rewawrd of 10% of the 1st years claim paid to someone who "is identified" or agreed to by the claimant as a referer.  This extra 10% is paid from the genesis pool and doesn't cost the claimant anything.  One businesss model being explored by at least 2 groups we know of is to set up a web wallet and claim site.  The solarcoin foundation will check out the site, and claims filed, if it looks legit will then make the site an authorized claims submittter.  This means claimants won't have to download app and deal with blockchain and other hassles.  Claimants can still claim at solarcoin.org if they wish.  The hope is that by making it easier for those with good marketing and local knowledge to particpate as claim sites, the concept has more reach.

Solarcoin is like airmiles. Every 1 Mhw generated get you 1 Slr for free.  The earned / claimed Solarcoins can purchase what ever others are willing to trade for them, be it FIAT, BTC, Amazing Soy candles, Economics books etc.

Nick

Solarcoin (§ SLR) are like airmiles. Each 1 Mhw generated gets you §1 free. Solarcoins can purchase what others will trade: USD,BTC, Soy candles..etc.
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February 08, 2015, 11:20:06 AM
 #1067

refresher on POSv. for those interested.  http://www.reddcoin.com/papers/PoSV.pdf



Nick

Solarcoin (§ SLR) are like airmiles. Each 1 Mhw generated gets you §1 free. Solarcoins can purchase what others will trade: USD,BTC, Soy candles..etc.
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February 09, 2015, 08:38:35 AM
 #1068

Does anyone know if POSv has the ability to add interest rate per node or per node cluster? Or a self adding or alignment of interest rates according to network characteristics, geographical node clusters or for example to the Sun's input irradiance characterisitics and many other localized variables?
I saw that it was developed for Reddcoin (a social coin) to intrinsically quantify and standardize social interaction. What would be the changes and additions for the SolarCoin POSv?
From what I see the only real two things to change are the v part of POSv (i.e. the equation of degradation over time for the coin holders- linear, exponential...many formulas possible). And also the interest rate.

Maybe also I am totally missing something.  Undecided

Thanking you,
-lfloorwalker

|Solcrypto|ElectriCChain| SLR Tips: 8Hocu8s8u8FFAyh5ev2qsNmLZYgeiVToHi
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February 10, 2015, 10:12:57 PM
 #1069

Does anyone know if POSv has the ability to add interest rate per node or per node cluster? Or a self adding or alignment of interest rates according to network characteristics, geographical node clusters or for example to the Sun's input irradiance characterisitics and many other localized variables?
I saw that it was developed for Reddcoin (a social coin) to intrinsically quantify and standardize social interaction. What would be the changes and additions for the SolarCoin POSv?
From what I see the only real two things to change are the v part of POSv (i.e. the equation of degradation over time for the coin holders- linear, exponential...many formulas possible). And also the interest rate.

Maybe also I am totally missing something.  Undecided

Thanking you,
-lfloorwalker

For those who want to try POSV and help out Noblecoin,  please test there client. we are looking at deploying a version of the noblecoins new POS wallet.  Please note NobleCoin uses POS II while we shooting for POSV.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=402667.msg10384580#msg10384580

My understanding of POSV is that the reward is proportional to the stakecoins at an annualized rate of 2%  so if 100 coins are staked and the blocks are targeted for 1 minute then the potential coin reward would be 2%/(365*24*60)=3.8085*10^-8  The coin age would weight the suggested correct solution is calculated as an exponential decay function to minimize hoarding to accumulate age.  I welcome corrections to this thinking. and input on opinions if we should explore POSV v. POS II. My bias is POSV as it is slightly more mature.

Nick


Solarcoin (§ SLR) are like airmiles. Each 1 Mhw generated gets you §1 free. Solarcoins can purchase what others will trade: USD,BTC, Soy candles..etc.
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February 11, 2015, 08:11:42 PM
 #1070

Hello All,

My brother has been setting up the SolarCoin apparel for all of us interested in getting our Logo out there.  Wink

Check it out at
teespring.com/solarcoin

or on fb at 
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Solarcoin-Merchandise/946103785400917?fref=photo

Hope you enjoy as much as I did!


Sunnyboy

T-Shirts go for 19.99USD+3.60USD Shipping
Longsleeves go for 21.99 and Jerseys for 29.99
allang696
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February 20, 2015, 03:03:29 PM
 #1071

Any news on the POS implementation?

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February 21, 2015, 01:08:29 PM
 #1072

Any news on the POS implementation?

Sunnyboy just finished POS Proof of Shirt... You should sell Sun Block for Proof of SunBurn Smiley

Looks pretty cool Sunnyboy, you need one version with the big logo on the back and a small one on the front though. And V neck or Lower Neck comfort.

Why not accept SolarCoin for the shirts? Ah you have to pay money for them! Why go through the hassle of converting to bitcoin then back to fiat.
y_virtual
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February 21, 2015, 04:07:03 PM
 #1073

Any news on the POS implementation?

Sunnyboy just finished POS Proof of Shirt... You should sell Sun Block for Proof of SunBurn Smiley

Looks pretty cool Sunnyboy, you need one version with the big logo on the back and a small one on the front though. And V neck or Lower Neck comfort.

Why not accept SolarCoin for the shirts? Ah you have to pay money for them! Why go through the hassle of converting to bitcoin then back to fiat.

Well... Here's about money.

"Money creation in the modern economy"
By Michael McLeay, Amar Radia and Ryland Thomas of the Bank’s Monetary Analysis Directorate.
Bank Of England

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/quarterlybulletin/2014/qb14q102.pdf

Cheers!
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February 21, 2015, 09:33:33 PM
 #1074

Any news on the POS implementation?

working with Dev on final contract issues etc. plans are POSv reddcoin clone.  https://www.reddcoin.com/papers/PoSV_FAQ.pdf I know the delay has people frustrated.  Our original devs couldn't get over a key hurdle involving messaging so we had to start over. Sad  Good news is we should have message support as we do now.  This allows each claimant's data to show up in the blockchain. helping to support the 1MWh = 1 SLR premise.

Solarcoin (§ SLR) are like airmiles. Each 1 Mhw generated gets you §1 free. Solarcoins can purchase what others will trade: USD,BTC, Soy candles..etc.
nickgogerty
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February 21, 2015, 09:37:38 PM
 #1075

Any news on the POS implementation?

Sunnyboy just finished POS Proof of Shirt... You should sell Sun Block for Proof of SunBurn Smiley

Looks pretty cool Sunnyboy, you need one version with the big logo on the back and a small one on the front though. And V neck or Lower Neck comfort.

Why not accept SolarCoin for the shirts? Ah you have to pay money for them! Why go through the hassle of converting to bitcoin then back to fiat.

Well... Here's about money.

"Money creation in the modern economy"
By Michael McLeay, Amar Radia and Ryland Thomas of the Bank’s Monetary Analysis Directorate.
Bank Of England

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/quarterlybulletin/2014/qb14q102.pdf

Cheers!

That's nice article. BOE does good research especially Haldane. I used to work with some of his peers.  My own concept of money is a bit broader and includes any representation of value, so equities and commercial credit etc. are included, they are just money with unique properties, but all represent value.  more in my book. www.thenatureofvalue.com  A great site on money which is working putting out M4 aggregate figures is http://www.centerforfinancialstability.org/index.php I was on a panel with the CEO a few weeks back. they have some cool historical data along with compelling new aggregates.

Solarcoin (§ SLR) are like airmiles. Each 1 Mhw generated gets you §1 free. Solarcoins can purchase what others will trade: USD,BTC, Soy candles..etc.
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February 22, 2015, 07:49:46 AM
 #1076

Any news on the POS implementation?

Sunnyboy just finished POS Proof of Shirt... You should sell Sun Block for Proof of SunBurn Smiley

Looks pretty cool Sunnyboy, you need one version with the big logo on the back and a small one on the front though. And V neck or Lower Neck comfort.

Why not accept SolarCoin for the shirts? Ah you have to pay money for them! Why go through the hassle of converting to bitcoin then back to fiat.

Well... Here's about money.

"Money creation in the modern economy"
By Michael McLeay, Amar Radia and Ryland Thomas of the Bank’s Monetary Analysis Directorate.
Bank Of England

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/quarterlybulletin/2014/qb14q102.pdf

Cheers!

That's nice article. BOE does good research especially Haldane. I used to work with some of his peers.  My own concept of money is a bit broader and includes any representation of value, so equities and commercial credit etc. are included, they are just money with unique properties, but all represent value.  more in my book. www.thenatureofvalue.com  A great site on money which is working putting out M4 aggregate figures is http://www.centerforfinancialstability.org/index.php I was on a panel with the CEO a few weeks back. they have some cool historical data along with compelling new aggregates.

That article is very general. It doesn't delve into the ways that these assets are manipulated with the power of the money they created. A bank that bets against its own CDO created from Accredited AAA rated loans that were fraudulently rated, create money for themselves. Banks that sold out the 401K's of Police and Fire Departments among many others involved with AIG etc. to be backed in Derivatives markets telling people these funds were insured, were considered legitimate banks involved in this creation of money. Usage of Credit Default Swaps to secure against loss as a scheme to also offset the bogus AAA rated loans until the central bank pulls back from the domino effect, causing a Quadrillion dollar call on the derivative market would make it seem like a Billion dollars is chump change. 11 Trillion off the books at the Federal Reserve during the crisis tips the hand of where the real power dwells. Then consider that Congress was blocked to Audit the Fed. Res. when they and the comptroller general should have complete transparency within the Fed Reserve. This is where your so called percentage of money creation took place yet 11 Trillion was underhandedly handed to the banks as a TARP. And we all know that a tarp is used to cover something up. Why would the creation of this type of money even matter anymore. Yet these are the basis of your knowledge and books as inference to what you know about how an economy or monetary supply should evolve from. Where does the money go into this Black Hole of Derivatives created by securitized loans on bad assets? Only further deluged by the separation of the title to a pool of investors who can not change terms of the loans for those properties who just needed to restructure their loans with their BANKS!

How this money is leveraged fraudulently is more important than how it is made by the banks.

This only shows the blaring problem reflected by the fact that SolarCoin (or any other Alt Coin) must accept FIAT for their T-Shirt as if we expect the conundrum should give us all the shirt off its back if all we do is put a logo on it.
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February 22, 2015, 09:38:08 AM
 #1077

Any news on the POS implementation?

Sunnyboy just finished POS Proof of Shirt... You should sell Sun Block for Proof of SunBurn Smiley

Looks pretty cool Sunnyboy, you need one version with the big logo on the back and a small one on the front though. And V neck or Lower Neck comfort.

Why not accept SolarCoin for the shirts? Ah you have to pay money for them! Why go through the hassle of converting to bitcoin then back to fiat.

Well... Here's about money.

"Money creation in the modern economy"
By Michael McLeay, Amar Radia and Ryland Thomas of the Bank’s Monetary Analysis Directorate.
Bank Of England

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/quarterlybulletin/2014/qb14q102.pdf

Cheers!

That's nice article. BOE does good research especially Haldane. I used to work with some of his peers.  My own concept of money is a bit broader and includes any representation of value, so equities and commercial credit etc. are included, they are just money with unique properties, but all represent value.  more in my book. www.thenatureofvalue.com  A great site on money which is working putting out M4 aggregate figures is http://www.centerforfinancialstability.org/index.php I was on a panel with the CEO a few weeks back. they have some cool historical data along with compelling new aggregates.

That article is very general. It doesn't delve into the ways that these assets are manipulated with the power of the money they created. A bank that bets against its own CDO created from Accredited AAA rated loans that were fraudulently rated, create money for themselves. Banks that sold out the 401K's of Police and Fire Departments among many others involved with AIG etc. to be backed in Derivatives markets telling people these funds were insured, were considered legitimate banks involved in this creation of money. Usage of Credit Default Swaps to secure against loss as a scheme to also offset the bogus AAA rated loans until the central bank pulls back from the domino effect, causing a Quadrillion dollar call on the derivative market would make it seem like a Billion dollars is chump change. 11 Trillion off the books at the Federal Reserve during the crisis tips the hand of where the real power dwells. Then consider that Congress was blocked to Audit the Fed. Res. when they and the comptroller general should have complete transparency within the Fed Reserve. This is where your so called percentage of money creation took place yet 11 Trillion was underhandedly handed to the banks as a TARP. And we all know that a tarp is used to cover something up. Why would the creation of this type of money even matter anymore. Yet these are the basis of your knowledge and books as inference to what you know about how an economy or monetary supply should evolve from. Where does the money go into this Black Hole of Derivatives created by securitized loans on bad assets? Only further deluged by the separation of the title to a pool of investors who can not change terms of the loans for those properties who just needed to restructure their loans with their BANKS!

How this money is leveraged fraudulently is more important than how it is made by the banks.

This only shows the blaring problem reflected by the fact that SolarCoin (or any other Alt Coin) must accept FIAT for their T-Shirt as if we expect the conundrum should give us all the shirt off its back if all we do is put a logo on it.

Your first principle is flawed. Banks don't create money, they create debt and the Federal Reserve siphons a percentage of that debt payable to their shareholders which happen to be unknown.

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February 22, 2015, 02:07:46 PM
 #1078

Any news on the POS implementation?

Sunnyboy just finished POS Proof of Shirt... You should sell Sun Block for Proof of SunBurn Smiley

Looks pretty cool Sunnyboy, you need one version with the big logo on the back and a small one on the front though. And V neck or Lower Neck comfort.

Why not accept SolarCoin for the shirts? Ah you have to pay money for them! Why go through the hassle of converting to bitcoin then back to fiat.

Well... Here's about money.

"Money creation in the modern economy"
By Michael McLeay, Amar Radia and Ryland Thomas of the Bank’s Monetary Analysis Directorate.
Bank Of England

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/quarterlybulletin/2014/qb14q102.pdf

Cheers!

That's nice article. BOE does good research especially Haldane. I used to work with some of his peers.  My own concept of money is a bit broader and includes any representation of value, so equities and commercial credit etc. are included, they are just money with unique properties, but all represent value.  more in my book. www.thenatureofvalue.com  A great site on money which is working putting out M4 aggregate figures is http://www.centerforfinancialstability.org/index.php I was on a panel with the CEO a few weeks back. they have some cool historical data along with compelling new aggregates.

That article is very general. It doesn't delve into the ways that these assets are manipulated with the power of the money they created. A bank that bets against its own CDO created from Accredited AAA rated loans that were fraudulently rated, create money for themselves. Banks that sold out the 401K's of Police and Fire Departments among many others involved with AIG etc. to be backed in Derivatives markets telling people these funds were insured, were considered legitimate banks involved in this creation of money. Usage of Credit Default Swaps to secure against loss as a scheme to also offset the bogus AAA rated loans until the central bank pulls back from the domino effect, causing a Quadrillion dollar call on the derivative market would make it seem like a Billion dollars is chump change. 11 Trillion off the books at the Federal Reserve during the crisis tips the hand of where the real power dwells. Then consider that Congress was blocked to Audit the Fed. Res. when they and the comptroller general should have complete transparency within the Fed Reserve. This is where your so called percentage of money creation took place yet 11 Trillion was underhandedly handed to the banks as a TARP. And we all know that a tarp is used to cover something up. Why would the creation of this type of money even matter anymore. Yet these are the basis of your knowledge and books as inference to what you know about how an economy or monetary supply should evolve from. Where does the money go into this Black Hole of Derivatives created by securitized loans on bad assets? Only further deluged by the separation of the title to a pool of investors who can not change terms of the loans for those properties who just needed to restructure their loans with their BANKS!

How this money is leveraged fraudulently is more important than how it is made by the banks.

This only shows the blaring problem reflected by the fact that SolarCoin (or any other Alt Coin) must accept FIAT for their T-Shirt as if we expect the conundrum should give us all the shirt off its back if all we do is put a logo on it.

Fabulous rant. Grin Just what I needed to perk me up this morning. It reminded me of why I was drawn to bitcoin and crypto in the first place. The current monetary/financial system is flawed tremendously. It may have served a purpose for the advancement of previous generations but it no longer serves humanity in any way, shape or form. It serves the few at the expense of the whole. Building something with new technology based on the same flawed ideas is not change, it's simply replacing the old mask with a new one. It won't work.

Wizard's Fifth Rule has been popping up more and more for me recently, not just here but in other areas of my life as well. For those of you unfamiliar with the Terry Goodkind books, this is what that rule is:

"Mind what people do, not only what they say, for deeds will betray a lie."

PS: I did not pay out the bounty because there were a number of things I was hoping people would think about regarding that chart I posted. For example, Market Cap is made up of two variables: coins in circulation and price. The only way for market cap to close the gap with a price that is being fixed is an influx of coins in circulation. With 1440 per day from mining, that won't do it. It will only happen with a substantial increase in granted coins from the pools. Price is clearly being held fixed by the oversupply in the market from previous mining. Someone has decided that $0.004 is the value and they are working night and day to keep it there. That doesn't seem odd to anyone else? It certainly smells to me. How is the price still at the same level it was two months ago when 144,000 coins per day were being "absorbed into the market". Where did all that "demand" go if volume has stayed the same? Perhaps the demand was never really there to begin with? If so, what does that mean? If the market for SLR were truly a natural and independent reflection of value, why would someone need to spend such an extraordinary amount of their time keeping it fixed at a certain level? Who benefits from that? I haven't even touched on the complex relationship involved related to the impact of multiple exchange rates... The whole crypto market looks to me like a massive money laundering campaign designed to get wealth from an old system into a new one. Given that, expect the spread to continue to widen until whoever is in charge of the price decides to alter their strategy. I posed the question to all of you because I don't have the answers and I think it's something that should be discussed if we are going to continue to have expectations for the future of this currency. If we as a group don't have the combined mental capacity to address crass market manipulation at this early stage in the game, how can we hope to change the future by building it on the same flawed ideals of lies, manipulation and deceit that brought the world to its knees in the first place?

Huh, I didn't know I had a rant within me this morning. That was kinda fun. Cheesy

Bitcoin:     17tzgWkXMBazch4koAhokMTcCtbc4TaYkE
Ether:        0xfe700f4aeec47e52eafad00f81977bb89738e0ae
​SolarCoin: 8MDk963sEh7RCMo3y3st7hTzMs7FzSdWSx
Dogecoin: DEgdH6CFTLSEeVVPqfE18ySCQqDWmLxp33
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February 22, 2015, 02:29:16 PM
 #1079

Any news on the POS implementation?

Sunnyboy just finished POS Proof of Shirt... You should sell Sun Block for Proof of SunBurn Smiley

Looks pretty cool Sunnyboy, you need one version with the big logo on the back and a small one on the front though. And V neck or Lower Neck comfort.

Why not accept SolarCoin for the shirts? Ah you have to pay money for them! Why go through the hassle of converting to bitcoin then back to fiat.

Well... Here's about money.

"Money creation in the modern economy"
By Michael McLeay, Amar Radia and Ryland Thomas of the Bank’s Monetary Analysis Directorate.
Bank Of England

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/quarterlybulletin/2014/qb14q102.pdf

Cheers!

That's nice article. BOE does good research especially Haldane. I used to work with some of his peers.  My own concept of money is a bit broader and includes any representation of value, so equities and commercial credit etc. are included, they are just money with unique properties, but all represent value.  more in my book. www.thenatureofvalue.com  A great site on money which is working putting out M4 aggregate figures is http://www.centerforfinancialstability.org/index.php I was on a panel with the CEO a few weeks back. they have some cool historical data along with compelling new aggregates.

That article is very general. It doesn't delve into the ways that these assets are manipulated with the power of the money they created. A bank that bets against its own CDO created from Accredited AAA rated loans that were fraudulently rated, create money for themselves. Banks that sold out the 401K's of Police and Fire Departments among many others involved with AIG etc. to be backed in Derivatives markets telling people these funds were insured, were considered legitimate banks involved in this creation of money. Usage of Credit Default Swaps to secure against loss as a scheme to also offset the bogus AAA rated loans until the central bank pulls back from the domino effect, causing a Quadrillion dollar call on the derivative market would make it seem like a Billion dollars is chump change. 11 Trillion off the books at the Federal Reserve during the crisis tips the hand of where the real power dwells. Then consider that Congress was blocked to Audit the Fed. Res. when they and the comptroller general should have complete transparency within the Fed Reserve. This is where your so called percentage of money creation took place yet 11 Trillion was underhandedly handed to the banks as a TARP. And we all know that a tarp is used to cover something up. Why would the creation of this type of money even matter anymore. Yet these are the basis of your knowledge and books as inference to what you know about how an economy or monetary supply should evolve from. Where does the money go into this Black Hole of Derivatives created by securitized loans on bad assets? Only further deluged by the separation of the title to a pool of investors who can not change terms of the loans for those properties who just needed to restructure their loans with their BANKS!

How this money is leveraged fraudulently is more important than how it is made by the banks.

This only shows the blaring problem reflected by the fact that SolarCoin (or any other Alt Coin) must accept FIAT for their T-Shirt as if we expect the conundrum should give us all the shirt off its back if all we do is put a logo on it.

Fabulous rant. Grin Just what I needed to perk me up this morning. It reminded me of why I was drawn to bitcoin and crypto in the first place. The current monetary/financial system is flawed tremendously. It may have served a purpose for the advancement of previous generations but it no longer serves humanity in any way, shape or form. It serves the few at the expense of the whole. Building something with new technology based on the same flawed ideas is not change, it's simply replacing the old mask with a new one. It won't work.

Wizard's Fifth Rule has been popping up more and more for me recently, not just here but in other areas of my life as well. For those of you unfamiliar with the Terry Goodkind books, this is what that rule is:

"Mind what people do, not only what they say, for deeds will betray a lie."

PS: I did not pay out the bounty because there were a number of things I was hoping people would think about regarding that chart I posted. For example, Market Cap is made up of two variables: coins in circulation and price. The only way for market cap to close the gap with a price that is being fixed is an influx of coins in circulation. With 1440 per day from mining, that won't do it. It will only happen with a substantial increase in granted coins from the pools. Price is clearly being held fixed by the oversupply in the market from previous mining. Someone has decided that $0.004 is the value and they are working night and day to keep it there. That doesn't seem odd to anyone else? It certainly smells to me. How is the price still at the same level it was two months ago when 144,000 coins per day were being "absorbed into the market". Where did all that "demand" go if volume has stayed the same? Perhaps the demand was never really there to begin with? If so, what does that mean? If the market for SLR were truly a natural and independent reflection of value, why would someone need to spend such an extraordinary amount of their time keeping it fixed at a certain level? Who benefits from that? I haven't even touched on the complex relationship involved related to the impact of multiple exchange rates... The whole crypto market looks to me like a massive money laundering campaign designed to get wealth from an old system into a new one. Given that, expect the spread to continue to widen until whoever is in charge of the price decides to alter their strategy. I posed the question to all of you because I don't have the answers and I think it's something that should be discussed if we are going to continue to have expectations for the future of this currency. If we as a group don't have the combined mental capacity to address crass market manipulation at this early stage in the game, how can we hope to change the future by building it on the same flawed ideals of lies, manipulation and deceit that brought the world to its knees in the first place?

Huh, I didn't know I had a rant within me this morning. That was kinda fun. Cheesy

Snowed in? Smiley

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February 22, 2015, 02:32:26 PM
 #1080

Any news on the POS implementation?

Sunnyboy just finished POS Proof of Shirt... You should sell Sun Block for Proof of SunBurn Smiley

Looks pretty cool Sunnyboy, you need one version with the big logo on the back and a small one on the front though. And V neck or Lower Neck comfort.

Why not accept SolarCoin for the shirts? Ah you have to pay money for them! Why go through the hassle of converting to bitcoin then back to fiat.

Well... Here's about money.

"Money creation in the modern economy"
By Michael McLeay, Amar Radia and Ryland Thomas of the Bank’s Monetary Analysis Directorate.
Bank Of England

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/quarterlybulletin/2014/qb14q102.pdf

Cheers!

That's nice article. BOE does good research especially Haldane. I used to work with some of his peers.  My own concept of money is a bit broader and includes any representation of value, so equities and commercial credit etc. are included, they are just money with unique properties, but all represent value.  more in my book. www.thenatureofvalue.com  A great site on money which is working putting out M4 aggregate figures is http://www.centerforfinancialstability.org/index.php I was on a panel with the CEO a few weeks back. they have some cool historical data along with compelling new aggregates.

That article is very general. It doesn't delve into the ways that these assets are manipulated with the power of the money they created. A bank that bets against its own CDO created from Accredited AAA rated loans that were fraudulently rated, create money for themselves. Banks that sold out the 401K's of Police and Fire Departments among many others involved with AIG etc. to be backed in Derivatives markets telling people these funds were insured, were considered legitimate banks involved in this creation of money. Usage of Credit Default Swaps to secure against loss as a scheme to also offset the bogus AAA rated loans until the central bank pulls back from the domino effect, causing a Quadrillion dollar call on the derivative market would make it seem like a Billion dollars is chump change. 11 Trillion off the books at the Federal Reserve during the crisis tips the hand of where the real power dwells. Then consider that Congress was blocked to Audit the Fed. Res. when they and the comptroller general should have complete transparency within the Fed Reserve. This is where your so called percentage of money creation took place yet 11 Trillion was underhandedly handed to the banks as a TARP. And we all know that a tarp is used to cover something up. Why would the creation of this type of money even matter anymore. Yet these are the basis of your knowledge and books as inference to what you know about how an economy or monetary supply should evolve from. Where does the money go into this Black Hole of Derivatives created by securitized loans on bad assets? Only further deluged by the separation of the title to a pool of investors who can not change terms of the loans for those properties who just needed to restructure their loans with their BANKS!

How this money is leveraged fraudulently is more important than how it is made by the banks.

This only shows the blaring problem reflected by the fact that SolarCoin (or any other Alt Coin) must accept FIAT for their T-Shirt as if we expect the conundrum should give us all the shirt off its back if all we do is put a logo on it.

Your first principle is flawed. Banks don't create money, they create debt and the Federal Reserve siphons a percentage of that debt payable to their shareholders which happen to be unknown.

The minting of money is controlled by the Federal Reserve, not by congress but based on their budget so to speak, the US Treasury completes the creation of money physically. How is the money dispersed, Banks right? Kind of like they created it given the power to disperse it. Banks were insolvent yet the Federal Reserve may have given them 11 Trillion off the books, so they are directly tied to the creation of money period. The Federal Reserve is just one of the 11 World banks, strange how there was 11 Trillion off the books. This 11 Trillion could have gone to stabilize positions though, which equate to the stability of the dollar. Let me know what you think happened. Whatever it was used for, is unconstitutional.

So what is SolarCoin going to give solar credits just to allow them to turn those solar credits into BitCoin, and say thank you for taking a sun bath with us! Crypto sometimes sounds no better than the bankers now. Don't make SolarCoin worth something, that is too easy to understand how it could be valuable.
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