AMHash1: Cost-Effective Mining Contract

[AirWolf]

But of course big money isn´t going to put any meaningful capital

into "exchanges" where you really have to withdraw all funds daily

because the operation might be gone the morning after.

That is because "money goes where more money can be made..."

And in the actual situation any investor seeing how this ecosystem is being driven, no one will pour millions of dollars into a business which main product takes always more an more resources to be produced...

[1714936606]

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[galdur]

But of course big money isn´t going to put any meaningful capital

into "exchanges" where you really have to withdraw all funds daily

because the operation might be gone the morning after.

That is because "money goes where more money can be made..."

And in the actual situation any investor seeing how this ecosystem is being driven, no one will pour millions of dollars into a business which main product takes always more an more resources to be produced...

Yes, but meaningful volume say at least 250-500 million dollars/day

would eat up product really fast. Tiny float, price would skyrocket.

But of course that would require real and regulated exchanges, and

that´s not really something that those libertarian zealots are fond of.

[galdur]

I mean, when the common man has heard those morons go on about evil fiat

and government fucking five hundred times they begin to associate bitcoin

with barf bags.

[galdur]

So maybe if those advocates of bitcoin could shut up completely

for a year and let more mainstream people do the talking to the

common man this would most likely bolster interest.

[AirWolf]

So maybe if those advocates of bitcoin could shut up completely

for a year and let more mainstream people do the talking to the

common man this would most likely bolster interest.

I myself am a bit libertarian, however i am more practical than libertarian, i love freedom but i also understand that the perfect society does not have any laws because they self regulate at the individual level, so no regulation is needed, laws are only needed to correct harmful social misconduct in the view of a long term sustainable future, this is not the case in the actual state of social evolution, right now to be libertarian is to be delusional if you do not understand this simple axiom.

So, as most of the people is just self-centered and therefore greedy, unfortunately a higher force is needed and this is called regulation, the social experiment of bitcoin will prove this right, the hard way sadly...

But, as no one is going to step up and regulate the miners, they will mine the shit out of bitcoin until the well is dry....

[galdur]

So maybe if those advocates of bitcoin could shut up completely

for a year and let more mainstream people do the talking to the

common man this would most likely bolster interest.

I myself am a bit libertarian, however i am more practical than libertarian, i love freedom but i also understand that the perfect society does not have any laws because they self regulate at the individual level, so no regulation is needed, laws are only needed to correct harmful social misconduct in the view of a long term sustainable future, this is not the case in the actual state of social evolution, right now to be libertarian is to be delusional if you do not understand this simple axiom.

So, as most of the people is just self-centered and therefore greedy, unfortunately a higher force is needed and this is called regulation, the social experiment of bitcoin will prove this right, the hard way sadly...

Exactly.

[AirWolf]

So maybe if those advocates of bitcoin could shut up completely

for a year and let more mainstream people do the talking to the

common man this would most likely bolster interest.

I myself am a bit libertarian, however i am more practical than libertarian, i love freedom but i also understand that the perfect society does not have any laws because they self regulate at the individual level, so no regulation is needed, laws are only needed to correct harmful social misconduct in the view of a long term sustainable future, this is not the case in the actual state of social evolution, right now to be libertarian is to be delusional if you do not understand this simple axiom.

So, as most of the people is just self-centered and therefore greedy, unfortunately a higher force is needed and this is called regulation, the social experiment of bitcoin will prove this right, the hard way sadly...

Exactly.

However, my analysis is half baked, because if we were the ones in the position of the "greedy Chinese", we will probably be doing the same, even when i think that i myself will try to implement some guild or cartel trying to get the other mine owners to implement rules of behaviour in order to extend the life of the ecosystem.

So Bitcoin is a beautiful but flawed initiative, because it could work in a situation where the individuals have more or less the same long term vision sense, like in the Star Trek's future, but not in early 21st century, i think this will collapse in less than 3 years if regulation or at least self regulation takes place.

[galdur]

So maybe if those advocates of bitcoin could shut up completely

for a year and let more mainstream people do the talking to the

common man this would most likely bolster interest.

I myself am a bit libertarian, however i am more practical than libertarian, i love freedom but i also understand that the perfect society does not have any laws because they self regulate at the individual level, so no regulation is needed, laws are only needed to correct harmful social misconduct in the view of a long term sustainable future, this is not the case in the actual state of social evolution, right now to be libertarian is to be delusional if you do not understand this simple axiom.

So, as most of the people is just self-centered and therefore greedy, unfortunately a higher force is needed and this is called regulation, the social experiment of bitcoin will prove this right, the hard way sadly...

Exactly.

However, my analysis is half baked, because if we were the ones in the position of the "greedy Chinese", we will probably be doing the same, even when i think that i myself will try to implement some guild or cartel trying to get the other mine owners to implement rules of behaviour in order to extend the life of the ecosystem.

So Bitcoin is a beautiful but flawed initiative, because it could work in a situation where the individuals have more or less the same long term vision sense, like in the Star Trek's future, but not in early 21st century, i think this will collapse in less than 3 years if regulation or at least self regulation takes place.

Well, if it becomes general consensus that bitcoin is doomed

then that view will become oversold if you will and then the

marketplace will presumably take measures to ensure that it

survives. My belief in the rationality of healthy markets is

unshakable. There will be a tipping point, maybe a gigantic

scam much bigger than Mt. Gox or a major mining bankruptcy.

There is way too much complacency and penny stock-to the

moon mentality. A major shock could do wonders for reality

perception.

[AirWolf]

So maybe if those advocates of bitcoin could shut up completely

for a year and let more mainstream people do the talking to the

common man this would most likely bolster interest.

I myself am a bit libertarian, however i am more practical than libertarian, i love freedom but i also understand that the perfect society does not have any laws because they self regulate at the individual level, so no regulation is needed, laws are only needed to correct harmful social misconduct in the view of a long term sustainable future, this is not the case in the actual state of social evolution, right now to be libertarian is to be delusional if you do not understand this simple axiom.

So, as most of the people is just self-centered and therefore greedy, unfortunately a higher force is needed and this is called regulation, the social experiment of bitcoin will prove this right, the hard way sadly...

Exactly.

However, my analysis is half baked, because if we were the ones in the position of the "greedy Chinese", we will probably be doing the same, even when i think that i myself will try to implement some guild or cartel trying to get the other mine owners to implement rules of behaviour in order to extend the life of the ecosystem.

So Bitcoin is a beautiful but flawed initiative, because it could work in a situation where the individuals have more or less the same long term vision sense, like in the Star Trek's future, but not in early 21st century, i think this will collapse in less than 3 years if regulation or at least self regulation takes place.

Well, if it becomes general consensus that bitcoin is doomed

then that view will become oversold if you will and then the

marketplace will presumably take measures to ensure that it

survives. My belief in the rationality of healthy markets is

unshakable. There will be a tipping point, maybe a gigantic

scam much bigger than Mt. Gox or a major mining bankruptcy.

There is way too much complacency and penny stock-to the

moon mentality. A major shock could do wonders for reality

perception.

You've said the magic words: "Healthy Markets" i don't think this is a healthy market anymore from what i've seen since 2011 up to date...

[DARKANGEL6415]

regardless of mining power 3600BTC(roughly) will still be mined per day.........

There never is any meaningful volume.

BTC on a good 24 hours maybe turns over what 50 million dollars.

That´s like 1/60th of Facebook volume in a 6 1/2 hr. market session.

But IF BTC is to amount to anything in the future then massive volume

will come in at some point. With such a tiny float a billion dollars could

send it up dozens of percent in virtually minutes.

i am about $50 shy of a billion dollars  dam sorry guys really thought i could have helped move the bitcoin price back up. I will start saving some pennies haha

[rexxarofmoknathal]

How do you calculate how much affect each percent increase in difficulty will have on dividend/general mining?

[galdur]

regardless of mining power 3600BTC(roughly) will still be mined per day.........

There never is any meaningful volume.

BTC on a good 24 hours maybe turns over what 50 million dollars.

That´s like 1/60th of Facebook volume in a 6 1/2 hr. market session.

But IF BTC is to amount to anything in the future then massive volume

will come in at some point. With such a tiny float a billion dollars could

send it up dozens of percent in virtually minutes.

i am about $50 shy of a billion dollars   dam sorry guys really thought i could have helped move the bitcoin price back up. I will start saving some pennies haha

The point is that stuff that is taken seriously and trades on exchanges

that don´t suddenly abscond with all the funds typiclly turns over billions of

dollars during a 6 1/2 hour session while bitcoin over 24 hours has a volume

just a fraction of that. It´s really just pocket lint.

Not to mention Forex. That trades like $5 Trillion per day.

[NeonTranceBadger]

Has anyone who transferred from hashie.co received a payment yet?

[thevictimofuktyranny]

Yeah, the price of Bitcoins has to fall to around $260-$280 due the maths in the macro economics involved in the older generations of crypto currencies.

Essentially, the currency has to many miners who are not investors or backer of crypto currencies, but these people are purely interested selling of their Bitcoins for Fiat currency e.g. Dollars, Pounds, Euros, etc. Therefore, they are simply mining to sell off their Bitcoins or whatever crypto currency and cash out into Fiat Currency.

Currently, what has been attempted has been to increase the mining difficulty to offset boom in demand for Bitcoins (boom is when prices go unrealistic levels in a short-term period compared to the long-term). The better policy would have been, the biggest holders of Bitcoin releasing some of their stockpiles to prevent the original booms in Bitcoins prices and buying Bitcoins back in slumps. For example: 30% of all the Bitcoins are owned by about 10 people, the entire price difference between a price of $276 per Bitcoin and $360 in $1 million dollar or 0.026% of the current market capitalization.  Therefore, it should be impossible to have a boom in the Bitcoin price unless the people with the big holdings are not following macro economic rules.

The policy of pushing up the mining difficulty to maintain an unrealistic prices has caused a knock on reduction in miners willing to hold their Bitcoins for 2-100 years, this is because they need increase their hashing power to maintain their yields, which means a bigger demand for mining equipment (and cloud mining) purchases, which equates to more miners needing to sell Bitcoins or providers needing to sell Bitcoins for Fiat currency.  

Alternatively, if the biggest holders had managed the price downwards it would have choked off Fiat Currency Profiteers entering the crypto currency market place in the 1st place.

A simple equation: the price profitability of being a miner should be below the value of doing extra hours of overtime in paid employments= choking out Fiat Currency Profiteers.

The other equation that matters is: each day the amount of people seeking to cash out into Fiat currency must equal the number of people seeking to buy in with Fiat currency, the price will go up or down according to imbalances in this equilibrium.

For example: Bitcoin S5 is $413. A Quality PSU is $160, a Raspberry PI is $56 and Postage is $30= $659.

In the USA (Current price of $278), with 50% jump in difficulty over 1 year results in profit a $678.5. If the person spends 1 hour each week on maintenance and research, this equals a wage of $13 per hour. Many people will reckon 1 hour of overtime in the office or in a factory would be easier then messing about with electronics?

However, this equation has been completely ridiculous when the price of Bitcoin was $800, per each hour invested by miner they made $56. Obviously, this was always going to attract Fiat Currency Profiteers!

Turning to hacking or theft of Bitcoins from major companies like MT.Gox. This has clearly, shaken the less informed investors interested in Bitcoin and other crypto currencies.

The design of Crypto Currency has a theoretical possibility of being a platform for zero theft existence for businesses and large investors.

The Bitcoin organisation or the original designers simply didn't see how close their crypto currency was to zero theft existence for businesses and private investors.

Essentially, the Bitcoin or new crypto-currency would set up a premium services for businesses to lock their wallet across the peer-to-peer network, up to 50-100% volume could be locked down  according to operational needs. Therefore, not only would a hacker have to steal the wallet, break the encryption, but also contact the Organisation to move coins of that wallet in large volumes, consequently contacting Bitcoin would reveal their identity!

Secondly, looking at the owner of Mintpal stealing depositors Bitcoins, these Bitcoins ended up on in his wallet. As a peer to peer currency, people will publicly know or be able to trace his wallet with the stolen Bitcoins on and other people should be able to lock his wallet on the network through 40%-50% vote in favour. Therefore, making it impossible to to profit from the theft of that crypto currency. Peer to peer wallets for crypto currencies should have voting functions (like internet jury) to lock wallet of a person accused of stealing coins on the network.

At the end of day, most miners or cloud miners of Bitcoin would prefer lower Fiat prices for Bitcoins or Litecoins then turbo charged increases in mining difficulty, because if you plan to hold the currency for 2 years or more (1 year 8 month to next block halving) then a greater volume of Bitcoin on past expenditures is better each day then a higher Fiat currency price.

[blg42598]

The mining contracts always seem to be sold out. 

[jawitech]

The mining contracts always seem to be sold out. 

At AMHash they are sold out (new shares will be sold soon when BTC price will raise). But you can trade them at Havelock. There is a marketplace where you can sell/buy them like BTC/LTC at Bittrex.

Has anyone who transferred from hashie.co received a payment yet?

It was announced that payment whould be made on Monday (Jan. 6th).

[DARKANGEL6415]

So maybe if those advocates of bitcoin could shut up completely

for a year and let more mainstream people do the talking to the

common man this would most likely bolster interest.

I myself am a bit libertarian, however i am more practical than libertarian, i love freedom but i also understand that the perfect society does not have any laws because they self regulate at the individual level, so no regulation is needed, laws are only needed to correct harmful social misconduct in the view of a long term sustainable future, this is not the case in the actual state of social evolution, right now to be libertarian is to be delusional if you do not understand this simple axiom.

So, as most of the people is just self-centered and therefore greedy, unfortunately a higher force is needed and this is called regulation, the social experiment of bitcoin will prove this right, the hard way sadly...

Exactly.

However, my analysis is half baked, because if we were the ones in the position of the "greedy Chinese", we will probably be doing the same, even when i think that i myself will try to implement some guild or cartel trying to get the other mine owners to implement rules of behaviour in order to extend the life of the ecosystem.

So Bitcoin is a beautiful but flawed initiative, because it could work in a situation where the individuals have more or less the same long term vision sense, like in the Star Trek's future, but not in early 21st century, i think this will collapse in less than 3 years if regulation or at least self regulation takes place.

Well, if it becomes general consensus that bitcoin is doomed

then that view will become oversold if you will and then the

marketplace will presumably take measures to ensure that it

survives. My belief in the rationality of healthy markets is

unshakable. There will be a tipping point, maybe a gigantic

scam much bigger than Mt. Gox or a major mining bankruptcy.

There is way too much complacency and penny stock-to the

moon mentality. A major shock could do wonders for reality

perception.

I myself am really shocked they did not do anything after silk road. Then when the whole thing with mt gox went down i thought for sure something i might change. The i know people was saying someone got caught trying to pay for a hitman using bitcoin " not sure if true " but dam lol maybe a LITTLE regulation wont be bad

[DARKANGEL6415]

Yeah, the price of Bitcoins has to fall to around $260-$280 due the maths in the macro economics involved in the older generations of crypto currencies.

Essentially, the currency has to many miners who are not investors or backer of crypto currencies, but these people are purely interested selling of their Bitcoins for Fiat currency e.g. Dollars, Pounds, Euros, etc. Therefore, they are simply mining to sell off their Bitcoins or whatever crypto currency and cash out into Fiat Currency.

Currently, what has been attempted has been to increase the mining difficulty to offset boom in demand for Bitcoins (boom is when prices go unrealistic levels in a short-term period compared to the long-term). The better policy would have been, the biggest holders of Bitcoin releasing some of their stockpiles to prevent the original booms in Bitcoins prices and buying Bitcoins back in slumps. For example: 30% of all the Bitcoins are owned by about 10 people, the entire price difference between a price of $276 per Bitcoin and $360 in $1 million dollar or 0.026% of the current market capitalization.  Therefore, it should be impossible to have a boom in the Bitcoin price unless the people with the big holdings are not following macro economic rules.

The policy of pushing up the mining difficulty to maintain an unrealistic prices has caused a knock on reduction in miners willing to hold their Bitcoins for 2-100 years, this is because they need increase their hashing power to maintain their yields, which means a bigger demand for mining equipment (and cloud mining) purchases, which equates to more miners needing to sell Bitcoins or providers needing to sell Bitcoins for Fiat currency.  

Alternatively, if the biggest holders had managed the price downwards it would have choked off Fiat Currency Profiteers entering the crypto currency market place in the 1st place.

A simple equation: the price profitability of being a miner should be below the value of doing extra hours of overtime in paid employments= choking out Fiat Currency Profiteers.

The other equation that matters is: each day the amount of people seeking to cash out into Fiat currency must equal the number of people seeking to buy in with Fiat currency, the price will go up or down according to imbalances in this equilibrium.

For example: Bitcoin S5 is $413. A Quality PSU is $160, a Raspberry PI is $56 and Postage is $30= $659.

In the USA (Current price of $278), with 50% jump in difficulty over 1 year results in profit a $678.5. If the person spends 1 hour each week on maintenance and research, this equals a wage of $13 per hour. Many people will reckon 1 hour of overtime in the office or in a factory would be easier then messing about with electronics?

However, this equation has been completely ridiculous when the price of Bitcoin was $800, per each hour invested by miner they made $56. Obviously, this was always going to attract Fiat Currency Profiteers!

Turning to hacking or theft of Bitcoins from major companies like MT.Gox. This has clearly, shaken the less informed investors interested in Bitcoin and other crypto currencies.

The design of Crypto Currency has a theoretical possibility of being a platform for zero theft existence for businesses and large investors.

The Bitcoin organisation or the original designers simply didn't see how close their crypto currency was to zero theft existence for businesses and private investors.

Essentially, the Bitcoin or new crypto-currency would set up a premium services for businesses to lock their wallet across the peer-to-peer network, up to 50-100% volume could be locked down  according to operational needs. Therefore, not only would a hacker have to steal the wallet, break the encryption, but also contact the Organisation to move coins of that wallet in large volumes, consequently contacting Bitcoin would reveal their identity!

Secondly, looking at the owner of Mintpal stealing depositors Bitcoins, these Bitcoins ended up on in his wallet. As a peer to peer currency, people will publicly know or be able to trace his wallet with the stolen Bitcoins on and other people should be able to lock his wallet on the network through 40%-50% vote in favour. Therefore, making it impossible to to profit from the theft of that crypto currency. Peer to peer wallets for crypto currencies should have voting functions (like internet jury) to lock wallet of a person accused of stealing coins on the network.

At the end of day, most miners or cloud miners of Bitcoin would prefer lower Fiat prices for Bitcoins or Litecoins then turbo charged increases in mining difficulty, because if you plan to hold the currency for 2 years or more (1 year 8 month to next block halving) then a greater volume of Bitcoin on past expenditures is better each day then a higher Fiat currency price.

WOW this is alot of reading i about finished a cup of coffee reading this lol. I must say i am really proud of a new account that writes this kind of stuff. Alot of the new accounts i see just go on to complain and hide haha. In any case i agree with alot of the points you have made note of on here.

[pumawolf]

is anyone else getting cloudflares ,almost everyday on havelock , or is it just me.

[alevlaslo]

The mining contracts always seem to be sold out.  

At AMHash they are sold out (new shares will be sold soon when BTC price will raise). But you can trade them at Havelock. There is a marketplace where you can sell/buy them like BTC/LTC at Bittrex.

what if I trust to website AMHhash only, but do not trust to website Havelockinvestments and especially Hashi ?