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Question: Would you pay taxes if you could live off bitcoins?
Yes, even w/o risks - 35 (38.5%)
Depends on the risks - 22 (24.2%)
No, even w/ risks - 34 (37.4%)
Total Voters: 91

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Author Topic: Would you pay taxes if you could live off bitcoins?  (Read 10143 times)
Hawker
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July 08, 2012, 10:59:37 AM
 #141

...snip...

No, one is negative, the other positive. negative rights can be had by all, without infringing upon another. positive rights do not always meet this criteria.

And we are back to natural law arguments.  Which are in a parallel thread.  Why not address them there?

Because inevitably, it gets down to this root level. No matter where we discuss it, you're going to say that some magic piece of paper gives you the ability to force your decisions on me, and me the ability to force my decisions on you, while I say that there is no such right, and we should both leave each other the fuck alone. I have an opinion that I have a negative right to be left the fuck alone, and you have an opinion that you have a positive right to not leave me the fuck alone. There's gonna be conflict there.

Exactly. So any political system needs a way to resolve these disputes or we will end up needing to kill one another.

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July 08, 2012, 11:03:16 AM
 #142

Exactly. So any political system needs a way to resolve these disputes or we will end up needing to kill one another.

Simple answer: leave each other the fuck alone.

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July 08, 2012, 11:20:27 AM
 #143

Exactly. So any political system needs a way to resolve these disputes or we will end up needing to kill one another.

Simple answer: leave each other the fuck alone.

Not possible.  If I want a road and you don't and it runs across your land, you can be causing me a problem.  I have to deal with that problem that you have imposed on me. 

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July 08, 2012, 11:25:24 AM
 #144

Exactly. So any political system needs a way to resolve these disputes or we will end up needing to kill one another.

Simple answer: leave each other the fuck alone.

Not possible.  If I want a road and you don't and it runs across your land, you can be causing me a problem.  I have to deal with that problem that you have imposed on me. 

On the contrary, you want to impose upon me. If you want a road, and I don't, build it around my land, or buy my land out. If I won't sell for less than it would cost to build around, well, then that's your choice, isn't it? build around, spend enough money to get me to sell.

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July 08, 2012, 11:29:21 AM
 #145

Exactly. So any political system needs a way to resolve these disputes or we will end up needing to kill one another.

Simple answer: leave each other the fuck alone.

Not possible.  If I want a road and you don't and it runs across your land, you can be causing me a problem.  I have to deal with that problem that you have imposed on me. 

On the contrary, you want to impose upon me. If you want a road, and I don't, build it around my land, or buy my land out. If I won't sell for less than it would cost to build around, well, then that's your choice, isn't it? build around, spend enough money to get me to sell.

Again that costs me money.   Sitting at home suffering the loss you are imposing on me is not an option.  If we can't agree on this, we need a peaceful way to resolve it.  Or else we have to kill one another.

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July 08, 2012, 11:32:16 AM
 #146

Again that costs me money.   Sitting at home suffering the loss you are imposing on me is not an option.  If we can't agree on this, we need a peaceful way to resolve it.  Or else we have to kill one another.

Well, economic decision time. Which is more costly:

Building around my land,

Buying my land so that you can build straight, or

Kicking me off the land by force?

Think carefully, before you answer, the result may not be as clear cut as it seems.

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July 08, 2012, 11:35:33 AM
 #147

Again that costs me money.   Sitting at home suffering the loss you are imposing on me is not an option.  If we can't agree on this, we need a peaceful way to resolve it.  Or else we have to kill one another.

Well, economic decision time. Which is more costly:

Building around my land,

Buying my land so that you can build straight, or

Kicking me off the land by force?

Think carefully, before you answer, the result may not be as clear cut as it seems.

Lets assume its not 2 people but 2 million people.  1.9 million want the road and 100k don't.  We need a way to resolve the dispute that scales to millions of people.

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July 08, 2012, 11:36:52 AM
 #148

Lets assume its not 2 people but 2 million people.  1.9 million want the road and 100k don't.  We need a way to resolve the dispute that scales to millions of people.

Leaving each other the fuck alone scales beautifully all the way up to infinity.

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July 08, 2012, 11:40:38 AM
 #149

Lets assume its not 2 people but 2 million people.  1.9 million want the road and 100k don't.  We need a way to resolve the dispute that scales to millions of people.

Leaving each other the fuck alone scales beautifully all the way up to infinity.

So the 100,000 don't stop the road being built.  Great - I love your idealism.

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July 08, 2012, 11:42:03 AM
 #150

Lets assume its not 2 people but 2 million people.  1.9 million want the road and 100k don't.  We need a way to resolve the dispute that scales to millions of people.

Leaving each other the fuck alone scales beautifully all the way up to infinity.

So the 100,000 don't stop the road being built.  Great - I love your idealism.

No, of course not. If the 1.9 million want a road, they can build it on their land. Surely they have enough.

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July 08, 2012, 12:03:02 PM
 #151

Lets assume its not 2 people but 2 million people.  1.9 million want the road and 100k don't.  We need a way to resolve the dispute that scales to millions of people.

Leaving each other the fuck alone scales beautifully all the way up to infinity.

So the 100,000 don't stop the road being built.  Great - I love your idealism.

No, of course not. If the 1.9 million want a road, they can build it on their land. Surely they have enough.

There will always be 1 person who doesn't consent and the road has to go straight though their property.

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July 08, 2012, 12:07:15 PM
 #152

There will always be 1 person who doesn't consent and the road has to go straight though their property.

What, roads can't curve in your world?

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July 08, 2012, 12:14:56 PM
 #153

There will always be 1 person who doesn't consent and the road has to go straight though their property.

What, roads can't curve in your world?

You know, I can play with examples too.  Change the road to a railway.  And please don't do that again.   

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July 08, 2012, 12:17:22 PM
 #154

There will always be 1 person who doesn't consent and the road has to go straight though their property.

What, roads can't curve in your world?

You know, I can play with examples too.  Change the road to a railway.  And please don't do that again.   

Rails can curve, too. Takes more space, but the cars are jointed for a reason.

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July 08, 2012, 12:24:08 PM
 #155

There will always be 1 person who doesn't consent and the road has to go straight though their property.

What, roads can't curve in your world?

You know, I can play with examples too.  Change the road to a railway.  And please don't do that again.   

Rails can curve, too. Takes more space, but the cars are jointed for a reason.

Perhaps you can post about that on a railway forum?  Meanwhile, do you have anything to say on the 2 million people who have a few thousand houses blocking development of their area?

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July 08, 2012, 12:40:33 PM
 #156

Perhaps you can post about that on a railway forum?  Meanwhile, do you have anything to say on the 2 million people who have a few thousand houses blocking development of their area?



Build around them. Leave them the fuck alone.

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July 08, 2012, 12:53:09 PM
 #157

Perhaps you can post about that on a railway forum?  Meanwhile, do you have anything to say on the 2 million people who have a few thousand houses blocking development of their area?

...snip...

Build around them. Leave them the fuck alone.

Again playing with the example instead of the issue.

You know, in a NAP world this would be simple.  The representatives of the 2 million would take the hold-outs to arbitration.  The arbitrator would evaluate the economic value of the development and if it was high enough, tell the hold-outs to yield up possession.  In "The Mechanic of Freedom", Friedman has this working even for death penalty disputes.

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July 08, 2012, 01:13:09 PM
 #158

...snip...

No, one is negative, the other positive. negative rights can be had by all, without infringing upon another. positive rights do not always meet this criteria.

And we are back to natural law arguments.  Which are in a parallel thread.  Why not address them there?

Because inevitably, it gets down to this root level. No matter where we discuss it, you're going to say that some magic piece of paper gives you the ability to force your decisions on me, and me the ability to force my decisions on you, while I say that there is no such right, and we should both leave each other the fuck alone. I have an opinion that I have a negative right to be left the fuck alone, and you have an opinion that you have a positive right to not leave me the fuck alone. There's gonna be conflict there.

Exactly. So any political system needs a way to resolve these disputes or we will end up needing to kill one another.

If you can't leave people the fuck alone...yeah
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July 08, 2012, 01:17:20 PM
 #159

...snip...

No, one is negative, the other positive. negative rights can be had by all, without infringing upon another. positive rights do not always meet this criteria.

And we are back to natural law arguments.  Which are in a parallel thread.  Why not address them there?

Because inevitably, it gets down to this root level. No matter where we discuss it, you're going to say that some magic piece of paper gives you the ability to force your decisions on me, and me the ability to force my decisions on you, while I say that there is no such right, and we should both leave each other the fuck alone. I have an opinion that I have a negative right to be left the fuck alone, and you have an opinion that you have a positive right to not leave me the fuck alone. There's gonna be conflict there.

Exactly. So any political system needs a way to resolve these disputes or we will end up needing to kill one another.

If you can't leave people the fuck alone...yeah

Correct.  If someone is doing something that costs me money, I have an interest in acting.  If not, then we don't have a problem. When I do have a problem, we need a system to resolve it peacefully so we don't have to kill one another.

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July 08, 2012, 01:24:26 PM
 #160


If you can't leave people the fuck alone...yeah

Correct.  If someone is doing something that costs me money, I have an interest in acting.  If not, then we don't have a problem. When I do have a problem, we need a system to resolve it peacefully so we don't have to kill one another.

I think you know you're just trolling at this point, but I'm game. If I go to a doctor and pay him for my own healthcare, how does that cost you money? You need to answer this first, or the rest of your post is just more bullshit.
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