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Question: Would you pay taxes if you could live off bitcoins?
Yes, even w/o risks - 35 (38.5%)
Depends on the risks - 22 (24.2%)
No, even w/ risks - 34 (37.4%)
Total Voters: 91

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Author Topic: Would you pay taxes if you could live off bitcoins?  (Read 10138 times)
myrkul
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July 08, 2012, 08:59:44 PM
 #261

Binary questions for people who pretend to be stupid, a pretense which does not allow for admission of wrongness.

It's a beautiful haiku, but I'm not sure I follow your meaning.

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Hawker
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July 08, 2012, 09:03:26 PM
 #262

Nope - cheating in computer games is off topic.  If you want to make a point, do so and please stay on topic.  

Fine. If I refuse to buy at Wal-Mart, am I damaging Wal-Mart? Again, answer yes or no.

There is the world of difference between an little old lady prevents a development that benefits 2 million people and a little old lady who shops at ASDA as opposed to M&S.

No, Only scale. You cannot profit at my expense without my permission. Period. End of story.

Wrong.  Any arbitrator will take into account all the economic impacts and will likely decide that the little old lady is being a greedy bitch.  

Anyway, lets stop.  You have convinced me that in a NAP based society, all the stuff we have now will still work even if we change vocabulary.  That includes conscription and eminent domain. I know you don't agree but that isn't really important for now as there is no NAP based society.

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July 08, 2012, 09:06:56 PM
 #263

Nope - cheating in computer games is off topic.  If you want to make a point, do so and please stay on topic. 

Fine. If I refuse to buy at Wal-Mart, am I damaging Wal-Mart? Again, answer yes or no.

There is the world of difference between an little old lady prevents a development that benefits 2 million people and a little old lady who shops at ASDA as opposed to M&S.

No, Only scale. You cannot profit at my expense without my permission. Period. End of story.

Wrong.  Any arbitrator will take into account all the economic impacts and decide that the little old lady is being a greedy bitch.  

No, you said it yourself:

The basis of arbitration is that you can't interfere with my use of my property without my consent.

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July 08, 2012, 09:11:39 PM
 #264

..snip...
No, you said it yourself:

The basis of arbitration is that you can't interfere with my use of my property without my consent.


The use of any property includes increasing its value..  Interfere with that and you are a threat to me.

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July 08, 2012, 09:12:50 PM
 #265

..snip...
No, you said it yourself:

The basis of arbitration is that you can't interfere with my use of my property without my consent.


The use of any property includes increasing its value..  Interfere with that and you are a threat to me.

But I am not interfering with you building a road on your land, only on mine. If I want to keep my land at the same value, I can.

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Hawker
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July 08, 2012, 09:17:39 PM
 #266

..snip...
No, you said it yourself:

The basis of arbitration is that you can't interfere with my use of my property without my consent.


The use of any property includes increasing its value..  Interfere with that and you are a threat to me.

But I am not interfering with you building a road on your land, only on mine. If I want to keep my land at the same value, I can.

Why are you telling me this?  Its nonsense; the arbitrator will throw it out.  There is no way an arbitrator will allow 1 person to block 2 million people if the increase in the value of the properties of the 2 million exceeds the loss to the one person by even 1 cent.

And, if you are the one person, you will pay the arbitration fees.

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July 08, 2012, 09:19:36 PM
 #267

This mob rule that you advocate winning arbitration, Hawker, is fundamentally inconsistent with NAP.

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July 08, 2012, 09:20:55 PM
 #268

This mob rule that you advocate winning arbitration, Hawker, is fundamentally inconsistent with NAP.

Hmm.  Sorry but you have not understood the NAP.  Look it up - you have no right to interfere with my property.  

Read this: http://daviddfriedman.com/The_Machinery_of_Freedom_.pdf

It makes all these things clear.

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July 08, 2012, 09:21:49 PM
 #269

This mob rule that you advocate winning arbitration, Hawker, is fundamentally inconsistent with NAP.

Hmm.  Sorry but you have not understood the NAP.  Look it up - you have no right to interfere with my property. 

Exactly. You have no right to interfere with my property. Take and fuck off.

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myrkul
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July 08, 2012, 09:23:01 PM
 #270

Why are you telling me this?  Its nonsense; the arbitrator will throw it out.  There is no way an arbitrator will allow 1 person to block 2 million people if the increase in the value of the properties of the 2 million exceeds the loss to the one person by even 1 cent.

And, if you are the one person, you will pay the arbitration fees.

Well, that's a lovely theory, but remember:

The basis of arbitration is that you can't interfere with my use of my property without my consent.

And if I do not consent to your interference with my continued use of my property, you're stuffed, and the arbitrator will tell you so.

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Hawker
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July 08, 2012, 09:24:45 PM
 #271

This mob rule that you advocate winning arbitration, Hawker, is fundamentally inconsistent with NAP.

Hmm.  Sorry but you have not understood the NAP.  Look it up - you have no right to interfere with my property. 

Exactly. You have no right to interfere with my property. Take and fuck off.

Agreed.  Luckily that doesn't matter.  The NAP assumes that there is no state, so there is no body imposing rights.  

Please, do use both a favour.  Read http://daviddfriedman.com/The_Machinery_of_Freedom_.pdf and then post back.  Right now, I think your heart is in the right place but you don't understand anarchism.

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July 08, 2012, 09:26:58 PM
 #272

This mob rule that you advocate winning arbitration, Hawker, is fundamentally inconsistent with NAP.

Hmm.  Sorry but you have not understood the NAP.  Look it up - you have no right to interfere with my property.  

Exactly. You have no right to interfere with my property. Take and fuck off.

Agreed.  Luckily that doesn't matter.  The NAP assumes that there is no state, so there is no body imposing rights.  

Please, do use both a favour.  Read http://daviddfriedman.com/The_Machinery_of_Freedom_.pdf and then post back.  Right now, I think your heart is in the right place but you don't understand anarchism.

Rights are not imposed, they are inherent. Your Ugly European act is completely and utterly worn out now. You must really love paving your road to hell in your echo chamber.

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cryptoanarchist
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July 08, 2012, 09:27:56 PM
 #273

...snip...
This is so convoluted and full of logical fallacy I'm not going to bother. The irony is that you started with "Let's be clear"

Good.  As long as I am not on the hook for free-loaders, I am happy.  If I do have to pay for them, then its a brutal infringement of my property rights.

So we've come full circle. Because you're on the hook for free-loaders with your NHS.
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July 08, 2012, 09:28:42 PM
 #274

Why are you telling me this?  Its nonsense; the arbitrator will throw it out.  There is no way an arbitrator will allow 1 person to block 2 million people if the increase in the value of the properties of the 2 million exceeds the loss to the one person by even 1 cent.

And, if you are the one person, you will pay the arbitration fees.

Well, that's a lovely theory, but remember:

The basis of arbitration is that you can't interfere with my use of my property without my consent.

And if I do not consent to your interference with my continued use of my property, you're stuffed, and the arbitrator will tell you so.

You are the one interfering with the use of their property by 2 million people.  The arbitrator won't even need a nanosecond to tell you to pack your bags.

Why are you arguing about this? This is how you want disputes to be resolved.

myrkul
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July 08, 2012, 09:32:17 PM
 #275

You are the one interfering with the use of their property by 2 million people.  The arbitrator won't even need a nanosecond to tell you to pack your bags.

No, I am not. I am interfering with their use of my property. The arbitrator won't even need a nanosecond to tell them to get fucked.

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July 08, 2012, 09:33:18 PM
 #276

...snip...
This is so convoluted and full of logical fallacy I'm not going to bother. The irony is that you started with "Let's be clear"

Good.  As long as I am not on the hook for free-loaders, I am happy.  If I do have to pay for them, then its a brutal infringement of my property rights.

So we've come full circle. Because you're on the hook for free-loaders with your NHS.

Free-loading on the NHS is hard.  Like really hard.  You can do it by living outside the UK and then flying home for medical treatment.  You can go to jail young, get sick, be violent and then stay in jail all your life.  You can be mentally ill and never leave institutionalised care.  The vast vast majority of people couldn't possibly avoid paying their dues.

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July 08, 2012, 09:34:30 PM
 #277

Mob rule of 2 people, 2 million, or 2 trillion is not legitimate, therefore there can be no 'interference' with it that an arbitrator will acknowledge. Unless that arbitrator isn't actually one at all.

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July 08, 2012, 09:37:52 PM
 #278

You are the one interfering with the use of their property by 2 million people.  The arbitrator won't even need a nanosecond to tell you to pack your bags.

No, I am not. I am interfering with their use of my property. The arbitrator won't even need a nanosecond to tell them to get fucked.

In the nicest way possible, you haven't understood "The Machinery of Freedom."  Read it again - the chapters on market law are of particular interest.  In anarchy, there are no property rights as there is no state.  Its all about the economic value of development.  Arbitrators will be market driven and will consider the value to the 2 million compared to the value to the 1 person and will tell the 1 person to pack their bags.

I don't know why I am having to explain the book you recommended.

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July 08, 2012, 09:40:00 PM
 #279

Mob rule of 2 people, 2 million, or 2 trillion is not legitimate, therefore there can be no 'interference' with it that an arbitrator will acknowledge. Unless that arbitrator isn't actually one at all.

I know why you say that.  You haven't read http://daviddfriedman.com/The_Machinery_of_Freedom_.pdf

Read it.  If you find a better libertarian manifesto, let me know.  But for now, your problem is that you have not studied your own beliefs.

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July 08, 2012, 09:41:30 PM
 #280

I'm done work and off to the pub.  I wonder if it its worth making a thread to discuss http://daviddfriedman.com/The_Machinery_of_Freedom_.pdf since it seems that most libertarian and anarchists don't actually understand what the book says.

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