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Question: Would you pay taxes if you could live off bitcoins?
Yes, even w/o risks - 35 (38.5%)
Depends on the risks - 22 (24.2%)
No, even w/ risks - 34 (37.4%)
Total Voters: 91

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Author Topic: Would you pay taxes if you could live off bitcoins?  (Read 10125 times)
Hawker
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July 08, 2012, 06:13:03 PM
 #201

Sorry - you are interfering with how I want things on my property.  I have to ask you to stop or to agree to arbitration.  If you refuse, I have to kill you.  I have no idea why you are putting me in this position but I can't accept that kind of aggression.

Well, my apologies if you want a straight road, but the moment it reaches the edge of your property, it ceases to be your decision. If you would like a road, you'll have to build around me, or convince me to sell... without resorting to violence.

You are costing me and 2 million others money.  If the arbitrator agrees you are right, fine.  But if he is pro-growth, you pack your bags. 

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cryptoanarchist
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July 08, 2012, 06:14:36 PM
 #202

...snip...

No, he's not. Property is only what you have made use of and/or created. If you have a patch of land, and someone else does, building a road through his property in no way is making use of your own property, but of his. You're just talking jibberish - AGAIN.

Its a NAP world.  You are costing me money.  I demand you stop or that you agree arbitration.  If what you say is what the arbitrator says, you are right.

If not, then pack your bags or make your will.  

You would have a hard time proving to a common law jury that someone was costing you money by not letting you use their land.

That's not much different than me suing people for not buying my product.
cryptoanarchist
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July 08, 2012, 06:15:50 PM
 #203

...snip...

To be honest, I'm not even sure you're right here. Whenever I've gone to the Emergency room with no money, I get a bill. If I don't pay it, which I didn't in one case, it went on my credit and ruined it. It was never paid by the taxpayer as far as I know.

So if you can't pay what happens? My understanding is that they have to treat you.

I don't think they have to. ...snip...

Why are you doing this?  There is a legal requirement that they treat you.  You already know that - please limit yourself to the real world.

You don't even live here. You don't know. Show me the law that says they are required to treat you and I'll agree with you on that one, but I don't think they are required to treat me if I come in with a paper-cut.

Wimp.  You go to hospitals for paper cuts and look for foreigners to provide statute law for it to be done free.  Be less pathetic.


Sooo...you're admitting you didn't know what you were talking about?
Hawker
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July 08, 2012, 06:16:08 PM
 #204

...snip...

No, he's not. Property is only what you have made use of and/or created. If you have a patch of land, and someone else does, building a road through his property in no way is making use of your own property, but of his. You're just talking jibberish - AGAIN.

Its a NAP world.  You are costing me money.  I demand you stop or that you agree arbitration.  If what you say is what the arbitrator says, you are right.

If not, then pack your bags or make your will.  

You would have a hard time proving to a common law jury that someone was costing you money by not letting you use their land.

That's not much different than me suing people for not buying my product.

I agree.  But I said that this was a NAP example.  Of course if there was a common law jury, there would be a land registry backed by the state.  And I'd then have to fuck off :p

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July 08, 2012, 06:17:51 PM
 #205

Sorry - you are interfering with how I want things on my property.  I have to ask you to stop or to agree to arbitration.  If you refuse, I have to kill you.  I have no idea why you are putting me in this position but I can't accept that kind of aggression.

Well, my apologies if you want a straight road, but the moment it reaches the edge of your property, it ceases to be your decision. If you would like a road, you'll have to build around me, or convince me to sell... without resorting to violence.

You are costing me and 2 million others money.  If the arbitrator agrees you are right, fine.  But if he is pro-growth, you pack your bags. 

To paraphrase Buddha, Your desire for a straight road is causing you your suffering. I am not costing you a penny. Your desire for a straight road is.

Remember when you said this?:
The basis of arbitration is that you can't interfere with my use of my property without my consent.

Yeah. My use of my property is to continue living on it.

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Hawker
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July 08, 2012, 06:18:12 PM
 #206

...snip...

Wimp.  You go to hospitals for paper cuts and look for foreigners to provide statute law for it to be done free.  Be less pathetic.


Sooo...you're admitting you didn't know what you were talking about?

I know exactly what I am taking about.  You are asking me to find a statute that obliges free treatment of papercuts.  And that's pathetic.  You get free treatment of emergencies - be grateful for that.  

Better still, stop free-loading and buy insurance.

cryptoanarchist
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July 08, 2012, 06:18:40 PM
 #207

...snip...

No, he's not. Property is only what you have made use of and/or created. If you have a patch of land, and someone else does, building a road through his property in no way is making use of your own property, but of his. You're just talking jibberish - AGAIN.

Its a NAP world.  You are costing me money.  I demand you stop or that you agree arbitration.  If what you say is what the arbitrator says, you are right.

If not, then pack your bags or make your will.  

You would have a hard time proving to a common law jury that someone was costing you money by not letting you use their land.

That's not much different than me suing people for not buying my product.

I agree.  But I said that this was a NAP example.  Of course if there was a common law jury, there would be a land registry backed by the state.  And I'd then have to fuck off :p

"Of course if there was a common law jury, there would be a land registry backed by the state."

That's what is called an invalid assumption. 'A' does not necessarily mean 'B' in your example.

Following the NAP would mean you were the aggressor by trying to build on his land. The exception would be if he was doing nothing with the land and had no plans to.
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July 08, 2012, 06:19:05 PM
 #208

Sorry - you are interfering with how I want things on my property.  I have to ask you to stop or to agree to arbitration.  If you refuse, I have to kill you.  I have no idea why you are putting me in this position but I can't accept that kind of aggression.

Well, my apologies if you want a straight road, but the moment it reaches the edge of your property, it ceases to be your decision. If you would like a road, you'll have to build around me, or convince me to sell... without resorting to violence.

You are costing me and 2 million others money.  If the arbitrator agrees you are right, fine.  But if he is pro-growth, you pack your bags. 

To paraphrase Buddha, Your desire for a straight road is causing you your suffering. I am not costing you a penny. Your desire for a straight road is.

Remember when you said this?:
The basis of arbitration is that you can't interfere with my use of my property without my consent.

Yeah. My use of my property is to continue living on it.

So we disagree.  It has to go to arbitration.

cryptoanarchist
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July 08, 2012, 06:20:02 PM
 #209

...snip...

Wimp.  You go to hospitals for paper cuts and look for foreigners to provide statute law for it to be done free.  Be less pathetic.


Sooo...you're admitting you didn't know what you were talking about?

I know exactly what I am taking about.  You are asking me to find a statute that obliges free treatment of papercuts.  And that's pathetic.  You get free treatment of emergencies - be grateful for that.  

Better still, stop free-loading and buy insurance.

So by redirecting the argument onto this un-important matter, are you dodging the fact you were wrong about taxpayers footing the bill for patients who can't pay?
cryptoanarchist
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July 08, 2012, 06:20:54 PM
 #210

Sorry - you are interfering with how I want things on my property.  I have to ask you to stop or to agree to arbitration.  If you refuse, I have to kill you.  I have no idea why you are putting me in this position but I can't accept that kind of aggression.

Well, my apologies if you want a straight road, but the moment it reaches the edge of your property, it ceases to be your decision. If you would like a road, you'll have to build around me, or convince me to sell... without resorting to violence.

You are costing me and 2 million others money.  If the arbitrator agrees you are right, fine.  But if he is pro-growth, you pack your bags. 

To paraphrase Buddha, Your desire for a straight road is causing you your suffering. I am not costing you a penny. Your desire for a straight road is.

Remember when you said this?:
The basis of arbitration is that you can't interfere with my use of my property without my consent.

Yeah. My use of my property is to continue living on it.

So we disagree.  It has to go to arbitration.

And any sane arbiter would tell you to get fucked.
myrkul
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July 08, 2012, 06:22:00 PM
 #211

So we disagree.  It has to go to arbitration.

And since:
The basis of arbitration is that you can't interfere with my use of my property without my consent.
And any sane arbiter would tell you to get fucked.

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Hawker
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July 08, 2012, 06:22:30 PM
 #212

...snip...

Wimp.  You go to hospitals for paper cuts and look for foreigners to provide statute law for it to be done free.  Be less pathetic.


Sooo...you're admitting you didn't know what you were talking about?

I know exactly what I am taking about.  You are asking me to find a statute that obliges free treatment of papercuts.  And that's pathetic.  You get free treatment of emergencies - be grateful for that.  

Better still, stop free-loading and buy insurance.

So by redirecting the argument onto this un-important matter, are you dodging the fact you were wrong about taxpayers footing the bill for patients who can't pay?

Its you were on about paper cuts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act

Quote
... requires hospitals to provide care to anyone needing emergency healthcare treatment regardless of citizenship, legal status or ability to pay.

If its an emergency you get it for free.  If you had a charge on your credit card, your "charitable" doctors are having a laugh.

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July 08, 2012, 06:24:38 PM
 #213

So we disagree.  It has to go to arbitration.

And since:
The basis of arbitration is that you can't interfere with my use of my property without my consent.
And any sane arbiter would tell you to get fucked.

You can tell yourself that.  But I am 100% sure that most arbitrators would be pro-growth and would regard your stubbornness as interfering with my property.

The nice thing is that I will accept the decision of the arbitrator.  You two are giving the impression that if you lose the decision, you would not accept it.

cryptoanarchist
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July 08, 2012, 06:27:39 PM
 #214

...snip...

Wimp.  You go to hospitals for paper cuts and look for foreigners to provide statute law for it to be done free.  Be less pathetic.


Sooo...you're admitting you didn't know what you were talking about?

I know exactly what I am taking about.  You are asking me to find a statute that obliges free treatment of papercuts.  And that's pathetic.  You get free treatment of emergencies - be grateful for that.  

Better still, stop free-loading and buy insurance.

So by redirecting the argument onto this un-important matter, are you dodging the fact you were wrong about taxpayers footing the bill for patients who can't pay?

Its you were on about paper cuts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act

Quote
... requires hospitals to provide care to anyone needing emergency healthcare treatment regardless of citizenship, legal status or ability to pay.

If its an emergency you get it for free.  If you had a charge on your credit card, your "charitable" doctors are having a laugh.

It didn't say you get service for free, it said they are required to treat you if you are IN NEED.

I wanted to let you hang yourself here, because I actually DO KNOW exactly how hospitals treat you with no insurance since I've been in that boat many times. So congratulations on sounding like an ignoramus.

FACT: I have an untreated inguinal hernia. I went into the hospital and they didn't treat it saying "its not an emergency until its strangulated, so we can't do anything."

FACT: I also have a torn rotator cuff. One time I went to the Emergency Room because I couldn't get it back into socket. They took me in after about an hour, popped it back in, then gave me a bill for about $3000.

Don't talk about how healthcare works in America, unless you want to sound like a total asshole.
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July 08, 2012, 06:28:15 PM
 #215

The nice thing is that I will accept the decision of the arbitrator.

Even if he tells you to get fucked?

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cryptoanarchist
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July 08, 2012, 06:29:36 PM
 #216

So we disagree.  It has to go to arbitration.

And since:
The basis of arbitration is that you can't interfere with my use of my property without my consent.
And any sane arbiter would tell you to get fucked.

You can tell yourself that.  But I am 100% sure that most arbitrators would be pro-growth and would regard your stubbornness as interfering with my property.

The nice thing is that I will accept the decision of the arbitrator.  You two are giving the impression that if you lose the decision, you would not accept it.

Maybe government arbiters who are biased. Who's to say that being pro-growth means your road is more important. What if he's drilling oil on his property and that supports the economy more than your road?
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July 08, 2012, 06:56:25 PM
 #217

...snip...

Maybe government arbiters who are biased. Who's to say that being pro-growth means your road is more important. What if he's drilling oil on his property and that supports the economy more than your road?

You either accept the NAP or you don't.  You give the impression that in a NAP based society, you would demanding a constitution with protection of property rights.

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July 08, 2012, 06:58:41 PM
 #218

FACT: I have an untreated inguinal hernia. I went into the hospital and they didn't treat it saying "its not an emergency until its strangulated, so we can't do anything."

Same situation. Kinda weird, but probably not statistically significant.

But yeah. The law only says they can't refuse treatment in an emergency. Not that they can't bill ya.

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Hawker
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July 08, 2012, 07:01:38 PM
 #219

FACT: I have an untreated inguinal hernia. I went into the hospital and they didn't treat it saying "its not an emergency until its strangulated, so we can't do anything."

Same situation. Kinda weird, but probably not statistically significant.

But yeah. The law only says they can't refuse treatment in an emergency. Not that they can't bill ya.

Call me confused.  If its an emergency and if you are broke, do they have to treat you for free or not?  

EDIT for clarity: if the answer is no, then I'm with cryptoanarchist and its outrageous to make insurance compulsory.  But I know a flaky fucker who says he gets free care.

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July 08, 2012, 07:05:42 PM
 #220

Call me confused.  If its an emergency and if you are broke, do they have to treat you for free or not?

They have to treat you. It does not have to be free. Also, you never answered this:

The nice thing is that I will accept the decision of the arbitrator.

Even if he tells you to get fucked?

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