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Author Topic: [LTC][Pool][PPS]notroll.in PPS Pool -scam alert-  (Read 70929 times)
gnarcoinguy
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April 10, 2013, 01:47:26 PM
 #601

hope admin gets better soon.  also hope i can withdraw soon.   Cheesy
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heinz
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April 10, 2013, 02:02:24 PM
 #602

I've moved my miners away from this pool for now until this gets fixed and based off other pools(history) they sometimes get too far behind and fade away . I've been burned before. I'm not saying this is what is happening nor do I know if he is in the hospital. Until this gets resolved I'm moving my miners elsewhere before I end up deeper in the hole to notroll.  Everyone else should do the same.
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April 10, 2013, 03:16:53 PM
 #603

I've moved my miners away from this pool for now until this gets fixed and based off other pools(history) they sometimes get too far behind and fade away . I've been burned before. I'm not saying this is what is happening nor do I know if he is in the hospital. Until this gets resolved I'm moving my miners elsewhere before I end up deeper in the hole to notroll.  Everyone else should do the same.

 +1 for this. People lost already with not being able to withdraw their coins.

My USB Erupter GROUP BUY https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=252180.0

Hungary (south) based trader - accepting/sending bank transfers, also willing to meet in person
g3gfx
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April 10, 2013, 03:38:51 PM
 #604

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Ok, while thief might be harsh, if what happened here is what everyone thinks, it's certainly a very poor decision.  The adjustment made to just my funds alone was ~$40 worth of LTC, going by today's price, for the time I was mining on notroll. This is $40 I would have if I had stayed at another pool.  Consider looking at it like this, your employer comes to you and says, hey, last week we accidentally overpaid a small percentage of our employees, so to make up for it this week, we're going to lower everyone's pay to compensate.  This just isn't how business is operated.  If a business owner makes a mistake or a poor decision, they pay for it, by either eating the cost or going out of business.  The world is harsh, but there it is.

Now as a miner, I have to ask myself if I feel comfortable staying on a pool that feels it is appropriate to take my funds when the operator makes a mistake or the pool is bugged.  Sorry, I'm just not that altruistic as to pay for someone elses mistake.

ps. I'm jealous of your hashing power, what kind of rigs are you running?


This is a terrible comparison and I think you have no idea what you're saying alot of you should stop complaining and read before you make silly remarks... He clearly stated that he overpaid everyone... If you're overpaid he has all the right to take back what was overpaid....

A better comparison would be: you go to an ATM you withdraw $100 and the ATM gives you $200... You better put those extra $100 if not the bank will deduct it from your account once it finds out it gave you too much money... Are you going to go to the bank and complain? NO, you were overpaid...
desert_beagle
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April 10, 2013, 03:51:45 PM
 #605


This is a terrible comparison and I think you have no idea what you're saying alot of you should stop complaining and read before you make silly remarks... He clearly stated that he overpaid everyone... If you're overpaid he has all the right to take back what was overpaid....

A better comparison would be: you go to an ATM you withdraw $100 and the ATM gives you $200... You better put those extra $100 if not the bank will deduct it from your account once it finds out it gave you too much money... Are you going to go to the bank and complain? NO, you were overpaid...

LOL, this is NOT what happened.  It would have been OK if he withheld funds from those who WERE mining for the time period that the server was bugged.  But what he did was basically take away 1/3 of all LTCs from EVERY account.

He basically did what Cyprus banks did to the customers deposits.
serge79
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April 10, 2013, 05:21:44 PM
 #606

Exactly, he didnt attack our gains, he attacked our deposits. I've been robbed of 1/4 of my total work on the pool since i never withdrew a coin. He did like in cyprus, a strong % cut of our savings!

Its impossible in 14 hours with the "bonus" i gained 1/4 of my total saving.
TwinTurbo
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April 10, 2013, 07:05:46 PM
 #607

Time to move to a backup pool. This isn't working. Any recommendations?
jmmichael93
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April 10, 2013, 07:14:37 PM
 #608

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Ok, while thief might be harsh, if what happened here is what everyone thinks, it's certainly a very poor decision.  The adjustment made to just my funds alone was ~$40 worth of LTC, going by today's price, for the time I was mining on notroll. This is $40 I would have if I had stayed at another pool.  Consider looking at it like this, your employer comes to you and says, hey, last week we accidentally overpaid a small percentage of our employees, so to make up for it this week, we're going to lower everyone's pay to compensate.  This just isn't how business is operated.  If a business owner makes a mistake or a poor decision, they pay for it, by either eating the cost or going out of business.  The world is harsh, but there it is.

Now as a miner, I have to ask myself if I feel comfortable staying on a pool that feels it is appropriate to take my funds when the operator makes a mistake or the pool is bugged.  Sorry, I'm just not that altruistic as to pay for someone elses mistake.

ps. I'm jealous of your hashing power, what kind of rigs are you running?


This is a terrible comparison and I think you have no idea what you're saying alot of you should stop complaining and read before you make silly remarks... He clearly stated that he overpaid everyone... If you're overpaid he has all the right to take back what was overpaid....

A better comparison would be: you go to an ATM you withdraw $100 and the ATM gives you $200... You better put those extra $100 if not the bank will deduct it from your account once it finds out it gave you too much money... Are you going to go to the bank and complain? NO, you were overpaid...


Meh, I think my analogy is fitting and yours is a little off-base, but hey, opinions are great aren't they?  With money you put in the bank, you've already produced the work to make those wages paid by your employer and made an agreement with your bank to hold them for security.  If you got a "Bank error in your favor," then yes, you'd need to return those funds or suffer the consequences.  A mining pool is nothing like a bank.  With pool mining, my rigs (ie. the workers) are producing hashing power (the work) to contribute to the pool (the employer) to get paid a certain wage (the LTC).  What this operator did was basically punish those who continued to mine on his pool, even though they weren't the ones who got double paid.  It was a shady decision to cover his own ass.  In normal business, as an owner or management, if you make a poor decision or mistake, you suffer the consequences.  Essentially in this case, the pool operator made a decision or action that turned out to be a mistake and doesn't want to take responsibility for it.  If you wanted to continue with your bank ATM analogy, then he essentially pulled a "Cyprus" and took a percentage of funds that miners had on deposit, and yeah, we all know how well that worked out.

BEWARE:  NOTROLL.IN POOL MAY STEAL YOUR GENERATED LTC
Original thread starts here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=92716.msg1782471#msg1782471
Theft discussion thread is here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=172667.0
EastcaostSix
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April 10, 2013, 08:31:08 PM
 #609

From my calculations I wasn't doubled paid for the period. I hash about 4 ltc a day and and I had about 8 ltc in my account for that peroid. The problem seems to be that the 24 hour Earnings figure which was and still is counting for a 48 hour period.
serge79
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April 10, 2013, 08:32:32 PM
 #610

Nicksasa, you just made a lot of money, (I guess I'm not the only one you robbed 25% of his week or even monthly savings so thats a big lot of money).

We were such idiots to trust you and your pool. It would be nice if with some of our money you'd buy a notebook and and write here a few lines.

Even something like "I screwed you, and I'm enjoying every single penny" would be appreciated. Thank you.
Mrkeety
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April 10, 2013, 08:52:16 PM
 #611

I wonder what was the exact calculations used to take our coins?

I did notice on monday that I was accumulating litecoins faster, but it doesn't mean you could take out a week's worth of my earnings..

serge79
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April 10, 2013, 09:13:53 PM
 #612

I wonder what was the exact calculations used to take our coins?

I did notice on monday that I was accumulating litecoins faster, but it doesn't mean you could take out a week's worth of my earnings..



Coefficient used is:  your old balance / your new balance = 1.33

That means a 25% haircut.

(i can tell it cause i never withrew any coins so its pretty easy to calculate my old balance -25% = my new balance
Mrkeety
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April 10, 2013, 09:44:36 PM
 #613

I wonder what was the exact calculations used to take our coins?

I did notice on monday that I was accumulating litecoins faster, but it doesn't mean you could take out a week's worth of my earnings..



Coefficient used is:  your old balance / your new balance = 1.33

That means a 25% haircut.

(i can tell it cause i never withrew any coins so its pretty easy to calculate my old balance -25% = my new balance

ah you're right, so the people who left their coins in there for awhile gets screwed?
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April 10, 2013, 09:55:02 PM
 #614

I feel your pain guys, but again I am left wondering why would you actually allow your gains to cumulate in someone's wallet.
Frequent withdrawal are a must anywhere in the cryptoworld.

If the coins arent in your wallets, they arent yours. Similar to gold bug mentality.

Lesson well learned on the risks of mining without abusive withdrawing.

Do the same on exchanges if you know what's good for you.
This or anything similar can happen on BTC-E or even MtGOX.
Nicksasa
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April 10, 2013, 09:55:21 PM
 #615

To everyone that is sure that they lost too much, I will put up something (a page, or pm's, i'm not sure yet.) so i can look into it. I know it wasn't fair to everyone but i had to take immediate action.

It's sad to see that even after 2 days nobody even thought of telling me. I really thought the LTC community was more mature then this.
(And as stated before by MANY pools, pools are NOT a bank.)

Mrkeety
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April 10, 2013, 10:07:46 PM
 #616

To everyone that is sure that they lost too much, I will put up something (a page, or pm's, i'm not sure yet.) so i can look into it. I know it wasn't fair to everyone but i had to take immediate action.

It's sad to see that even after 2 days nobody even thought of telling me. I really thought the LTC community was more mature then this.
(And as stated before by MANY pools, pools are NOT a bank.)

Nick, I'm just trying to calculate exactly how much extra does not belong to me.

"Before you flip out, let me explain this.
On 7/04/2013-8/04/2013 getwork miners were paid DOUBLE. Then since 14h ago EVERYONE was paid double.
Ofcourse i HAD to correct this.

This was also the reason the hot wallet dried up while i was away (and i still am, btw)."

so if I'm using stratum, then mines is just the 14h part correct?
Nicksasa
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April 10, 2013, 10:09:42 PM
 #617

To everyone that is sure that they lost too much, I will put up something (a page, or pm's, i'm not sure yet.) so i can look into it. I know it wasn't fair to everyone but i had to take immediate action.

It's sad to see that even after 2 days nobody even thought of telling me. I really thought the LTC community was more mature then this.
(And as stated before by MANY pools, pools are NOT a bank.)

Nick, I'm just trying to calculate exactly how much extra does not belong to me.

"Before you flip out, let me explain this.
On 7/04/2013-8/04/2013 getwork miners were paid DOUBLE. Then since 14h ago EVERYONE was paid double.
Ofcourse i HAD to correct this.

This was also the reason the hot wallet dried up while i was away (and i still am, btw)."

so if I'm using stratum, then mines is just the 14h part correct?
Yes, around 14h.

jasonjm
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April 10, 2013, 10:35:47 PM
 #618

what is the DIFF column in the notroll worker summary?

the difificulty of the blocks they are doing?

some are 32 sometimes though I see 128?
Nicksasa
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April 10, 2013, 10:37:02 PM
 #619

what is the DIFF column in the notroll worker summary?

the difificulty of the blocks they are doing?

some are 32 sometimes though I see 128?
It shows you the difficulty the pool set (vardiff, min is 32) for the last share you submitted.

debianlinux
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April 10, 2013, 10:39:10 PM
 #620

It's sad to see that even after 2 days nobody even thought of telling me. I really thought the LTC community was more mature then this.
(And as stated before by MANY pools, pools are NOT a bank.)

I, for one, didn't have a clue. The pool has been so dodgy lately that I had no metric of what reliable operation looked like. Additionally, with the rash of shady behavior ongoing at other pools I had moved a significant portion of my hash power to notroll.in because, you know, historically it was a trusted pool to mine on.

Rationalizing your behavior by lumping us all in the sneaky, take what you can get camp just serves to further alienate your userbase and damage your pool's reputation. I try to avoid the dramatics and give the benefit of the doubt but I'm not one to just quietly take outright abuse, either.
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