Tau-Chain and Agoras Official Thread: Generalized P2P Network

[Foerster]

Well, Agoras is being traded on Openledger (https://cryptofresh.com/a/OPEN.AGRS) which is not 100% as easy as classical exchanges. Also, our volume there is low and hence the market is not showing up on Coinmarketcap. This, in turn, leads to only few people getting exposure to the project which has been the state ever since our Bittrex market was put on standby.

The good thing is that Ohad is not by himself anymore and has created a team capable of delivering things. As a first step, the project is getting a proper website (which had been promised for years). It goes online in June and will make it easier for people to get a grasp of the capabilities of Tauchain. On the website, people can also see our roadmap and the team will no longer be faceless. Coupled with the now steady stream of updates on Github this will give us a much easier time when dealing with exchanges and other parties. Then it will not take long to be visible on CMC again and be back on the radar of many investors and get liquidity to our markets.

I think the whole situation will change anyway after the alpha version demonstrates the capabilities of Tauchain but first, we have to normalize the project a bit and get the basics right in order to create optimum leverage for the technology.

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[1714103632]

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[zooitje]

..... but first, we have to normalize the project a bit and get the basics right in order to create optimum leverage for the technology.

Great to hear this! Anything you guys need from the community? Webmaster? Documentation? Blogging? Testing? Marketing?

[arisen725]

The Internet of Coins wallet now supports Agoras tokens. You can add the asset to your wallet by clicking 'Manage Assets' and then searching for OMNI.AGRS .

Cheers from the Internet of Coins team! 

[SimpleMan]

Well, Agoras is being traded on Openledger (https://cryptofresh.com/a/OPEN.AGRS) which is not 100% as easy as classical exchanges. Also, our volume there is low and hence the market is not showing up on Coinmarketcap. This, in turn, leads to only few people getting exposure to the project which has been the state ever since our Bittrex market was put on standby.

The good thing is that Ohad is not by himself anymore and has created a team capable of delivering things. As a first step, the project is getting a proper website (which had been promised for years). It goes online in June and will make it easier for people to get a grasp of the capabilities of Tauchain. On the website, people can also see our roadmap and the team will no longer be faceless. Coupled with the now steady stream of updates on Github this will give us a much easier time when dealing with exchanges and other parties. Then it will not take long to be visible on CMC again and be back on the radar of many investors and get liquidity to our markets.

I think the whole situation will change anyway after the alpha version demonstrates the capabilities of Tauchain but first, we have to normalize the project a bit and get the basics right in order to create optimum leverage for the technology.

Also keep in mind that Openledger is actually not fully decentralized due to their redeemable OPEN tokens and coins. Same counterparty risk as with other exchanges.

[Kartaba]

http://www.idni.org/blog/art-of-self-ref

What a bunch of SCIFI bullshit. 3,5 years and what? 78 commits?? What a joke! And all the sheep here: "Ohhh what a good read!!!" Arent you people tired of lying to yourselves? 90% doesnt understand shit and are prolly too afraid to say anything at all.

EOS IS NOT EVEN LIVE and its on 140 + exchanges, THOUSANDS of commits.. (bet Ohad fuckface Asor thinks its garbage because he is sooo smart and eeveryone else in crypto is sooo dumb)

"Market manipulation" he says, fucking narcissistic bastard, with your pseudo scientific juvenile philosophies and propositions. Enough is enough your false sense of grandeur will be the final nail in the coffin. Go learn how to make a freaking website you bald fuck face.

"its ready when its ready" ?!!! What are you? Gestapo nazi or something? Who the fuck talks like that to their investors?

PS: And you 3-5 people sucking that narcissists dick... please just stfu its getting embarrassing after all these years. You know who you are.

[Bereon]

http://www.idni.org/blog/art-of-self-ref

What a bunch of SCIFI bullshit. 3,5 years and what? 78 commits?? What a joke! And all the sheep here: "Ohhh what a good read!!!" Arent you people tired of lying to yourselves? 90% doesnt understand shit and are prolly too afraid to say anything at all.

EOS IS NOT EVEN LIVE and its on 140 + exchanges, THOUSANDS of commits.. (bet Ohad fuckface Asor thinks its garbage because he is sooo smart and eeveryone else in crypto is sooo dumb)

"Market manipulation" he says, fucking narcissistic bastard, with your pseudo scientific juvenile philosophies and propositions. Enough is enough your false sense of grandeur will be the final nail in the coffin. Go learn how to make a freaking website you bald fuck face.

"its ready when its ready" ?!!! What are you? Gestapo nazi or something? Who the fuck talks like that to their investors?

PS: And you 3-5 people sucking that narcissists dick... please just stfu its getting embarrassing after all these years. You know who you are.

Next time, you could be less coarse and more elegant when explaining. Anyway, thanks for your contribution, we will take it into account.
 

[Eventine]

Most of the non technical discussion has moved to our telegram chat: https://t.me/tauchain

Please feel free to join us there

Openledger recently faced a DNS attack, please only use https://wallet.bitshares.org to trade AGRS and not any other gateways

[Eventine]

Ohad has also started an AMA on reddit

Feel free to ask him questions about the project here: https://www.reddit.com/r/tauchain/comments/8cavc9/tauchain_and_agoras_qa_page/

[panzer88]

http://tauchain.org/logs/fn/%23%23idni.log

--- Day changed Mon Feb 26 2018

16:16 < naturalog> we got Liaomiao karov isar judith handling lots of things including finding new exchange

[harbet.robison]

Actually, I think this project really needs someone moderating this thread, so Ohad can concentrate on the work.

[NILIcoin]

When we come to asses the benefit of a decentralized system we are looking at the operation itself and not at how it was created.

Hi

This is a call to the old Tauchain community as a whole regarding  the current state of the community of investors and what I see as the token's prospects in the future. As you can see I was probably the first member to come on board and to pledge for the project and chose to stay involved throughout the turbulent which involved a lot of drama. In fact at some point I was offered by Ohad to replace my Agoras holdings with bitcoins and refused. That is since despite all, I believed in the project and in the abilities of the people who lead it.

As you may know the project have split to two different projects, One that is still being lead by Ohad (newTau) and the other (AutoNomic) that is being directed by HMC and executed by two of the original developers @stoopkid and @koo. A few months ago I made a decision to invest half of my own Agoras to help finance some of the AutoNomic development, devoting 1/3 of the funds to develop the application to run on the blockchain and that will use the Agoras as it's utility token. This move was received with much suspicion and hostility from part of the community. and by Ohad himslef. However I see it as a great and unique opportunity to test the true essence of a ideas behind the Tauchain and the real power of a community which developed around the value of a token.

So from this point on I am operating on my behalf only. In other words. I dont care what Ohad, HMC or any of the others say or think, As long as they are whiling to accept my investment and my words on the thread and to carry on with their mission of reaching genesis so let that be. In practice, however Ohad is the owner of this thread and can delete my comments  or delete the thread as a whole, but I think it will be a really unwise step to take as I am a part of the community.  I believe also that each and one of you should make themselves heard here on this platform if you agree with me or if you disagree and feel that I am hurtng the Agoras holder interest. I also think that this as a social/economic experiment should be of much value to us all...and that value will be eventually expressed by the token value. which bring me to the last point here, the current state of Agoras tokens

Ever since the token been taken off Bittrex it was not able to recover . but worth it seems as if the trade throguh OpenLedger have been very problematic.Let me thus sum in details the current state of the token as summarized by another holder of the asset and was brought to my attention :

Technical aspects:
1) Agoras as it currently exists is an extremely problematic asset.
It's been 3 different intermediate tokens: OMNI #35 Agoras Tokens; OMNI #58 IDNI Agoras; and now Open.AGRS.

OMNI #35 no longer exists, because Ohad accidentally  gave half of all the tokens to a "hacker". (CA problems)
OMNI #58 is no longer exchangeable. When it was last exchangeable it was for Open.AGRS. Open.AGRS shut down their exchange gateway ~2 months ago but the Tau team isn't presenting this information, on the BitcoinTalk thread everybody's still saying you can trade on Openledger, which is true, but it's trading Open.AGRS which is a different asset from OMNI #58. You can't sell OMNI #58 anywhere. Further, what's been said on BitcoinTalk is to buy Open.AGRS, but this isn't buying OMNI #58, you can't withdraw Open.AGRS for OMNI #58.

3 intermediate tokens, none are exchangeable and the latest two are misrepresented (accidentally or otherwise), and last one existence entirely at the discretion of the CA Openledger..

Meanwhile, the only thing that's really made public about Ohad's definition of Tau is that it keeps changing. I'm not sure what "Agoras" even "is". How can we really say that the future value of Agoras on Tau is backing the value if we don't even have a definition of Agoras or Tau? He really hasn't put out very much content (blog-posts or code or math) to demonstrate whatever ideas he has.I try really hard to give the benefit of the doubt, but I certainly don't think that Agoras markets are something we can count on happening on their own.

At this point it seems as if that is indeed the case and this should be resolved by the NewTau team. So at least any holder of the omni asset #58 can exchange to Open.Agors asset, At this point I also feel that the Openledger platform is in fact a trust based platform and is in power regarding the creation and manipulation of the original Omni #58 asset. its almost worse than a centralized exchange. In short Agoras Holders who did not exahanged to Agoras.Open. are forces into a "Hodle" state of affairs for the time beings and  as such should recalculate their steps and invest effort in the community if they still believe in the project as a whole.

I am planing to write more extensively next time presenting you with both forks of the Old Tauchain,  NewTau and Autonomic , and give you some insights into the actual development and what it will still take to get to genesis. However for the relly clever ones here, I think that you can see that the tau have been up and running as a social/value network ever since the first day that it was conceived . and that the actual real genesis accrued when we  joined to create it.  It is important to note that all along and since the beginning HMC is rejecting the tokens sale as part of the development practices and never agreed to take any of it to himself or be reworded with bitcoin on his work . Aslo as agreed by both him and Ohad , the rootchain can not be tokenized , only the applications above it.

I dont know if this post will be able to stay on the air on this thread but so far Ohad did not censored any of my comments as difficult as they where for him to accept. Also important for me to state that I trust Ohad in terms of making his best efforts to bring this project to it genesis moment and beyond to see it succeed. He is a very honest person and very capable as well, ans so is HMC and his devoted team. This social experiment as a whole is something you all should be excited about. I do believe that it have a chance to bring great value to us all (including great financial value ) so "Hodle" on and step up your social involvement and by no means do not expect me to lead you anywhere, I am an anarchist! and an artist (an anarchist will never say "after me"", its against everything they stand for, and an artist dont need you in order to do her work).
Love and Peace (The optimists.)

[Eventine]

I just want to quickly clarify that OPEN.AGRS should not be viewed as a separate token from AGRS

When you make trades on almost any exchange, the coins don't actually move from one address to another on the blockchain. The exchange just keeps a separate internal record between individual accounts on its own system. The coins only move to a new address on the blockchain when you move them on or off the exchange. This is how exchanges are able to keep their trading fees low.

OpenLedger, based on Dan Larimer's Bitshares, just happen to have called their own internal record of the currency a slightly different name from the actual currency itself: they add an OPEN prefix. Every cryptocurrency on the platform (including BTC, ETH etc) had the OPEN prefix until relatively recently when they got rid of this in an update. Currencies now just have their normal names on OpenLedger, including AGRS, just like any other exchange.

https://openledger.io/market/AGRS_BTS

The maintenance lately have affected most of the coins on there, especially the OMNI assets (which AGRS is one of) and have nothing to do with Ohad or the team. It is entirely related to the exchange itself. At the time of writing many currencies are under maintenance.

https://openledger.io/deposit-withdraw/

AGRS has been traded on Openledger since 2016. Ohad certainly didn't just create another token.

[Karov]

... and the other (AutoNomic) that is being directed by HMC and executed by two of the original developers @stoopkid and @koo. ... , HMC or any of the others say or think,
... It is important to note that all along and since the beginning HMC is rejecting the tokens sale as part of the development practices and never agreed to take any of it to himself or be reworded with bitcoin on his work .

... very honest person and very capable as well, ans so is HMC and his devoted team.

Nili, did she reveal to you her true identity?!

[NILIcoin]

... and the other (AutoNomic) that is being directed by HMC and executed by two of the original developers @stoopkid and @koo. ... , HMC or any of the others say or think,
... It is important to note that all along and since the beginning HMC is rejecting the tokens sale as part of the development practices and never agreed to take any of it to himself or be reworded with bitcoin on his work .

... very honest person and very capable as well, ans so is HMC and his devoted team.

Nili, did she reveal to you her true identity?!

Who reveal their identity? HMC?  What is an identity in this time and age.and why should I care about it? so far I saw HMC committeemen and devotion to the project as he/she understand it just as I see ohad's committeemen and devotion to his view of the same project. In I way I see it as if they both work for me that is since we  kind of share the same view and the same interests. Bottom line identity have nothing to do with anything eventually its reputation that build trust .

[Karov]

Nili, did she reveal to you her true identity?!
[/quote]

Who reveal their identity? HMC?  What is an identity in this time and age.and why should I care about it? so far I saw HMC committeemen and devotion to the project as he/she understand it just as I see ohad's committeemen and devotion to his view of the same project. In I way I see it as if they both work for me that is since we  kind of share the same view and the same interests. Bottom line identity have nothing to do with anything eventually its reputation that build trust .
[/quote]

Dear Nili,

With all my respect, but this is simply NOT serious.  At all!  .:

1. Identity / verified signature, personae /  is EVERYTHING in (what you it seems refer to) 'reputation economy' of our glorious new time and age.

2. You see commitment and devotion but you do not see the committed and devoted one.

3. 'same project'? - really? I do not believe that it is possible somebody to regard it so. Except if it is meant the 'same project' of life, universe, existence and everything.

4. You have two workers- one known and the other is screen artifact. And they both deserve the same degree of respect and appreciation? Really? 

5. See. 1. - no reputation without 'firm'. Reputation is propety - bunch of adverbs. Absolute requirement is these adverbs to be furnished with a noun. I.e. with known.

You could simply reply that you do not know:

- who or what HMC is.

- what's the reason you to not know who or what HMC is...

Sorry, didn't mean to enter into kind of 'argument' with you.

Just wanted to make sure that 'HMC' exists.

You tell me: ''yes I believe it exists, because I saw her icon in the temple crying'

Best!

[NILIcoin]

...I am planing to write more extensively next time presenting you with both forks of the Old Tauchain,  NewTau and Autonomic , and give you some insights into the actual development and what it will still take to get to genesis.
... Also important for me to state that I trust Ohad in terms of making his best efforts to bring this project to its genesis moment and beyond to see it succeed. He is a very honest person and very capable as well, and so is HMC and his devoted team. This social experiment as a whole is something you all should be excited about. I do believe that it have a chance to bring great value to us all (including great financial value ) so "Hodle" on and step up your social involvement and by no means do not expect me to lead you anywhere, I am an anarchist! and an artist (an anarchist will never say "after me"", its against everything they stand for, and an artist dont need you in order to do her work).
Love and Peace (The optimists.)

Ok, Lets talk about value of a coin and the development of the markets . Then we will be able to asses the real value of Agoras

First the markets: As you all know one of the main parameters traders are looking at is coin market cap , There is nothing more idiotic than this factor in terms of calculating the real value of a coin. If I made a 1 trillion Nilicoin and sold 1 on an exchange for $10 then my market cap will be 10 trillion dollars. ofc this will be seem a bit problematic to some of the less stupid traders but if I have say half a million dollars I can create a few fake accounts  to buy and sell my own tokens at a volume of a few million.every day. within less of a day I will get hundreds of investors to start trading and in a few weeks I could reach the top ten coins in the market. That is if I also create a good story and market it well.

Now take Cardano for an example .https://www.cardano.org/en/genesis-block-distribution/  they created some biillions 31,112,484,646 (does anyone of the average investor even know how to read that insane number and realize what it means) and sold on a presale 5,185,414,108 ( so eventually the figures on the market cap, which should represent some real value would put them on the top ten)  Like most ICO they ofc did not need to have their own dollars (ether) they only needed to presale to some big investors who know that all they need to do is buy and sell their new investment (ADA)  The activity alone will get the attention of the market and the number..... Remember the billions of coins made at a click of a button?? well now they worth millions of dollars on the market cap.....

So now lets look at the content and the important factors in terms of the future real use and real value of both ADA and AGRS. In other words lets look what Cardano have that tauchin is missing:  

1. Do Cardano have a working platform?
2. Are Cardano closer to genesis then any both newtau and autonomic?
3. Is Cardano idea more original and better executed than Tauchain?
4. Did Cardano's founder and core team show more commitment then the original Tauchain team?
5. Do they present greater understanding of the product they aim to develop?
6. And finally, is Cardano in greater odds to create a functioning platform that will deliver the premises they stated publicly?

What if I tell you that on all the above Cardano in fact are far behind Tauchain.  You probably will have a hard time agreeing with me, but that is only because you are trained to be in the consensus, and to agree with what the majority agree on. and for a good reasons, yet as chaos get greater and greater, free thinking increases proportionally. ( In terms of the crypto markets we are about to be reaching some peeks of chaos. I assume that pretty soon many are going to realize the sheer stupidity of market cap as such a major factor and will panic. but probably  will take a while longer then I estimate )

So back to assessing the  real value of Agoras vs. Cardano below are the answer:

1. NO
2. NO. Cardano only have more developers working to figure out the way but is more developers means reaching the goal faster? would Einstain reach relativity faster if he worked with a full team of researchers that would swamp his desk with data? probably not. In terms of Cardano its much worth...
3.NO. if fact they practically used the information that made public in early 2015 on the tauchain project and took of from there (by march to be exact, that is when I introduced tauchain to Charless hoskins )
4.NO. the founder Charless hoskins show commitment to crypto but been jumping between many projects, most which were conceived by others.
5. NO. you can trust me on that but go check for yourselves
6. NO. Look at Etherume and all that it promised to do, with all the money poured into it and the hoards of developers we got an ERC20 contract that semiwork until funds are hacked in the smart contracts, and a breeding kitties that clogged the entire network, and that is a platform that have its own founder as the developer. The founder of Cardano is not the main developer of the platfrom. he is the main marketing figure.

.... and now finally check out the value of the economy promised by the Cardano project that is so much legging behind the tauchain project (on its two branches newtau and autonomic)  the Market cap of ADA vs. the market cap of Agoras, and ask yourself which of the two is more likely to get closer to that figure.

You are now  ready to assess the true value of your investment in AGRS for the time being. I would say that at this point holding it is a smart move( even if not made with much choice).

[NILIcoin]

Just wanted to make sure that 'HMC' exists.
 

HMC exist in some form that matters to the development of the project. beyond that I dont care who or what its is. (I dont plan to have babies with him/her/it
....actualy maybe artificial AI babies )...

But really, Karov ,I just dont get your obsession with his/her rea-llife identity.  (it reflect really bad on your team in my opinion)  In fact i probably I know HMC better then I know you and most important I can predict his/her/it  behavior better than yours  and much better than the behavior of many selling ICO founders. 

Also, I would not even bother answering such a peculiar request regarding knowing who HMC is , But I guess I need to understand the issue here as a strong supporter of the tauchain project and as one who want to see it reaching genesis.

[Karov]

Just wanted to make sure that 'HMC' exists.
 

HMC exist in some form that matters to the development of the project. beyond that I dont care who or what its is. (I dont plan to have babies with him/her/it
....actualy maybe artificial AI babies )...

But really, Karov ,I just dont get your obsession with his/her rea-llife identity.  (it reflect really bad on your team in my opinion)  In fact i probably I know HMC better then I know you and most important I can predict his/her/it  behavior better than yours  and much better than the behavior of many selling ICO founders. 

Also, I would not even bother answering such a peculiar request regarding knowing who HMC is , But I guess I need to understand the issue here as a strong supporter of the tauchain project and as one who want to see it reaching genesis.

MY (?) obsession with finment of your imagination, fleshed out only by a nick and line of words?
Same as Santa or the Big Spaghetti monster?
Classical case of ... belief.
Belief is a relation - one side is the believer and the other side is ... (you name it)?

The bottom line is you do not know who and/or what HMC is but accept that you are 'employer' of this ... thing?
And 'employer' which YOU pay so he/she/it to work for you?
And you pay ... it with assets which have been entrusted to you for committing yourself to a KNOWN one.

I understood enough.
No need to continue this 'discussion'.
Thanks. 

[NILIcoin]

Just wanted to make sure that 'HMC' exists.
 

HMC exist in some form that matters to the development of the project. beyond that I dont care who or what its is. (I dont plan to have babies with him/her/it
....actualy maybe artificial AI babies )...

But really, Karov ,I just dont get your obsession with his/her rea-llife identity.  (it reflect really bad on your team in my opinion)  In fact i probably I know HMC better then I know you and most important I can predict his/her/it  behavior better than yours  and much better than the behavior of many selling ICO founders. 

Also, I would not even bother answering such a peculiar request regarding knowing who HMC is , But I guess I need to understand the issue here as a strong supporter of the tauchain project and as one who want to see it reaching genesis.

MY (?) obsession with finment of your imagination, fleshed out only by a nick and line of words?
Same as Santa or the Big Spaghetti monster?
Classical case of ... belief.
Belief is a relation - one side is the believer and the other side is ... (you name it)?

The bottom line is you do not know who and/or what HMC is but accept that you are 'employer' of this ... thing?
And 'employer' which YOU pay so he/she/it to work for you?
And you pay ... it with assets which have been entrusted to you for committing yourself to a KNOWN one.

I understood enough.
No need to continue this 'discussion'.
Thanks. 

Wow, as I just said : But really, Karov ,I just dont get your obsession with his/her rea-llife identity.  (it reflect really bad on your team in my opinion)  In fact i probably I know HMC better then I know you and most important I can predict his/her/it  behavior better than yours ...
 
I am really surprised by your comment Karov...and since the newtau is all about discussions.... so we should differently carry on...

[Karov]

i probably I know HMC better then I know you

not true and you know that. 

You know very well several people who know me very well.

'probably'. 

I do not care about somebody else's imaginary friends.

I care about ... ethics.

So you say you have two 'employees'?

One you know very well, and who included you in his close circle - all this 'verified' by significant amount of tokens distro to you, right?
Interesting figure - people who PAY you to work for you. Well done!

The other one is ... a ghost.
Never bothered to meet you, to tell you who is he/she ...?
Never gave you anything?
No strings attached. No engagement. ZERO opportunity for reputation enforcement - do you at all notice that very important fact?
So convenient. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phone_fraud , anybody? )


Okay, maybe some fancy story is in place on why such anonymity must be in place.
The ghost is so silverless than it refuses to monetize 'the same project'.
But not so much 'silverless' to refuse 'donation' of other people's money. ...