[ANN] Sfards:SF100, the first 28nm Dual-Mode Miner is accepting pre-order now

[ncsupanda]

So how do these power specs translate into watts per chip in both modes? Or is there a mistype and those specs should ready J/s? .19J/GH makes no sense.

maybe at the wall .25watts per gh.  best case number

they are vague  as to exact numbers as I type.  152 gh is mentioned but is that for 1 chip?

or is that for a multi chipped testing board?

152 GH/s for a single chip sounds (at least for now) like a pipe dream.

Spondoolies last chip was 200GH, Minion chip was 100GH, so 150 GH seems fine.

Anyway, we'll soon know with the test boards

Apologies, I left out the 152 GH/s while simultaneously doing 3 MH/s Scrypt - but I realize now that might not have been his point. The problems of posting while in class.

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[TheRealSteve]

So how do these power specs translate into watts per chip in both modes? Or is there a mistype and those specs should ready J/s? .19J/GH makes no sense.

J/Gh makes perfect sense - it's equivalent to W/Gh/s at the chip level - you just can't draw any conclusions from it without also knowing the associated Gh/s number. 

Ideally Bitcoin mining chip manufacturers would take a page out of established industry's datasheets and put in a decent chart that gives a better idea, even if it doesn't further marketing.  E.g. a J/Gh over Gh chart, preferably with multiple plots if Vcore performance is determined by separate Vcore and clock frequency.

In the end, though, the chip's performance only tells part of the story - what if the high hash rates require fierce cooling?  What if the chip itself needs complex voltage regulation and/or control circuitry?  How do all those affect the actual power draw at the wall (which would be highly miner-dependent)?

I'd sign up to receive more information and wait for the reference board's specs, that should give a better idea of suitability for developers and some figures to argue over for end-users who'd use the thing 'as is'

[dogie]

So how do these power specs translate into watts per chip in both modes? Or is there a mistype and those specs should ready J/s? .19J/GH makes no sense.

maybe at the wall .25watts per gh.  best case number

they are vague  as to exact numbers as I type.  152 gh is mentioned but is that for 1 chip?

or is that for a multi chipped testing board?

152 GH/s for a single chip sounds (at least for now) like a pipe dream.

Spondoolies last chip was 200GH, Minion chip was 100GH, so 150 GH seems fine.

Anyway, we'll soon know with the test boards

Apologies, I left out the 152 GH/s while simultaneously doing 3 MH/s Scrypt - but I realize now that might not have been his point. The problems of posting while in class.

I interpreted those as separate mining modes, sha256 or scrypt like the last chip. Mixed mode specs will be interesting but I think most people will run it in a single mode, again like last chip.

[jstefanop]

If its pulling 1.75 watts per 3.17MH for scrypt thats a little over 2x increase in efficiency over KNC titans 3.9 watts/MH. Either way these have to be priced pretty low or be near the 10TH speed range to make any financial sense with current BTC/LTC prices.

Using the S5 as an example lets say it has 55 chips that means it runs at 8.4TH @ 1600 watts so if bitman can sell a 55 chip device for 400 then this would have to be priced somewhere around 1-2k USD to make sense.  


I think 1.5k would be a sweet spot for such a device but thats probably a dream...even at 1.5k that would mean a 100 day ROI IF (and a BIG IF) difficulty continues to remain flat.

Of course this changes if they can simutainiously mine BTC/LTC ...but I'm pretty sure those stats are for single mode.

Then again people are still paying over 400 for an S5 which will never see an ROI so who knows...

[J4bberwock]

If its pulling 1.75 watts per 3.17MH for scrypt thats a little over 2x increase in efficiency over KNC titans 3.9 watts/MH. Either way these have to be priced pretty low or be near the 10TH speed range to make any financial sense with current BTC/LTC prices.

Using the S5 as an example lets say it has 55 chips that means it runs at 8.4TH @ 1600 watts so if bitman can sell a 55 chip device for 400 then this would have to be priced somewhere around 1-2k USD to make sense.  


I think 1.5k would be a sweet spot for such a device but thats probably a dream...even at 1.5k that would mean a 100 day ROI IF (and a BIG IF) difficulty continues to remain flat.

Of course this changes if they can simutainiously mine BTC/LTC ...but I'm pretty sure those stats are for single mode.

Then again people are still paying over 400 for an S5 which will never see an ROI so who knows...

They are supposed to release a 1 chip miner and a 24 chips miner
1 chip will probably be around 100 Gh stock, and maybe 2TH for the 24 chips (probably string design to feed the chips with 0.5v).
BTW, depending on what's inside the datasheet, a 20 or 22 chips string design could be a better choice, still efficient, but with a little undervolting capability for better efficiency.

Okay so our Dev Board will consist of 1 SF3301 chip. Our first miner will come in 2 forms: a single SF3301 miner and a 24 chip miner. These are still tentative plans, but be sure we'll update you when things become a little more concrete.

[notlist3d]

Okay so our Dev Board will consist of 1 SF3301 chip. Our first miner will come in 2 forms: a single SF3301 miner and a 24 chip miner. These are still tentative plans, but be sure we'll update you when things become a little more concrete.

I think it is interesting on the two forms.  I hope 24 chip version has a good electricity efficiency.  That is my biggest hope on it.

And with amount of people that were interested in dev boards it seems to be a market of 1 chip miners.  I don't see them being able to make as many dev boards as people signed up.  So I most interested in dev boards will be shifted to the get this 1 chip version.

[philipma1957]

time will  if these are worth while .  for now it is mostly wait.  more often then not  the gear is always slow to market.  So the thread is now more then 13 pages long and older then 1 month.

14 pages long and 40 days old.

They just as well could have posted today.  Remember the blades came out at 3000 and the little gridseeds were 400 usd.

[notlist3d]

time will  if these are worth while .  for now it is mostly wait.  more often then not  the gear is always slow to market.  So the thread is now more then 13 pages long and older then 1 month.

14 pages long and 40 days old.

They just as well could have posted today.  Remember the blades came out at 3000 and the little gridseeds were 400 usd.

I have to admit I would like it if they shared more.  At first they seemed very open even showing office.  Not hardly any new information.

I wish we could see a prototype or something, I would hope they have one at this point.  But we don't know with lack of info.

[philipma1957]

time will  if these are worth while .  for now it is mostly wait.  more often then not  the gear is always slow to market.  So the thread is now more then 13 pages long and older then 1 month.

14 pages long and 40 days old.

They just as well could have posted today.  Remember the blades came out at 3000 and the little gridseeds were 400 usd.

That was a different time and were first to the market as Scrypt asics, there is no way they could charge 400$ for 150gh sha.

No I agree  this is now not then, but I fear rapid cheap 256 gear will crash btc price.

Notice all sellers of btc mining gear have been selling at very high prices and btc has been stable or close to stable since jan.

But when sp20's and s-5's had the price drops and were a glut on the market late dec to early jan  btc crashed.

I fear this product comes out with a low price far better then current s-5 price and bitmaintech just goes to a price war.  So gear is cheap and btc price drops.

I see the btc market as very fragile and a flood of cheaper, newer ,better gear does more harm then good.

Notice I used a flood of cheaper 

[philipma1957]

time will  if these are worth while .  for now it is mostly wait.  more often then not  the gear is always slow to market.  So the thread is now more then 13 pages long and older then 1 month.

14 pages long and 40 days old.

They just as well could have posted today.  Remember the blades came out at 3000 and the little gridseeds were 400 usd.

That was a different time and were first to the market as Scrypt asics, there is no way they could charge 400$ for 150gh sha.

No I agree  this is now not then, but I fear rapid cheap 256 gear will crash btc price.

Notice all sellers of btc mining gear have been selling at very high prices and btc has been stable or close to stable since jan.

But when sp20's and s-5's had the price drops and were a glut on the market late dec to early jan  btc crashed.

I fear this product comes out with a low price far better then current s-5 price and bitmaintech just goes to a price war.  So gear is cheap and btc price drops.

I see the btc market as very fragile and a flood of cheaper, newer ,better gear does more harm then good.

Notice I used a flood of cheaper 

I think Bitmain already has their next antminer ready but has delayed it into production since they have no reason to make it yet, once this comes out it would be the next ant vs it but I don't see a huge price drop just a new battle of miners.

Well we both prefer your prediction.  I really would rather that happens.

[alh]

Wouldn't you think that Sfards would try and get a premium price for the "dual mining" feature, even if folks only use it one way? As I recall the Gridseed was nothing special, and perhaps a little feeble, as a Bitcoin miner. It's key feature was it's ability to do Scrypt in hardware. As a Bitcoin miner it would have been an utter failure. I thought the follow on products dropped support for the Bitcoin aspect, even if they were based on the same chip. I think it became pretty obvious that it was never going be anything other than an "also ran" in the Bitcoin space, and hence that was dropped.

It will be interesting as to what Sfards actually comes out with, and when.

[philipma1957]

Wouldn't you think that Sfards would try and get a premium price for the "dual mining" feature, even if folks only use it one way? As I recall the Gridseed was nothing special, and perhaps a little feeble, as a Bitcoin miner. It's key feature was it's ability to do Scrypt in hardware. As a Bitcoin miner it would have been an utter failure. I thought the follow on products dropped support for the Bitcoin aspect, even if they were based on the same chip. I think it became pretty obvious that it was never going be anything other than an "also ran" in the Bitcoin space, and hence that was dropped.

It will be interesting as to what Sfards actually comes out with, and when.

I kind of lost interest in this  as the alt coins market is really bad.  I fear this will be a .38 watt btc miner not a .29 watt btcminer.  then bitmaintech will psuh out there .28 watt miner pretty much killing this gear off.


Also this thread need to be held back 25 to 30 days.  THEY RUSHED IT OUT AND STILL HAVE FAILED TO SHOW A WORKING ITEM 42 DAYS LATER.

This tactic is old and boring.
If they put this out on April 15th and said new gear  Sales start and ship May 1 with a demo on day one it would be a new better way of marketing.  Then on April 28th Say we finished early sales start today the 28th and we ship today we would be fucking stunned and I know I would have been interested in buying them. More of the same in btc land. oh well.

[notlist3d]

Wouldn't you think that Sfards would try and get a premium price for the "dual mining" feature, even if folks only use it one way? As I recall the Gridseed was nothing special, and perhaps a little feeble, as a Bitcoin miner. It's key feature was it's ability to do Scrypt in hardware. As a Bitcoin miner it would have been an utter failure. I thought the follow on products dropped support for the Bitcoin aspect, even if they were based on the same chip. I think it became pretty obvious that it was never going be anything other than an "also ran" in the Bitcoin space, and hence that was dropped.

It will be interesting as to what Sfards actually comes out with, and when.

I kind of lost interest in this  as the alt coins market is really bad.  I fear this will be a .38 watt btc miner not a .29 watt btcminer.  then bitmaintech will psuh out there .28 watt miner pretty much killing this gear off.


Also this thread need to be held back 25 to 30 days.  THEY RUSHED IT OUT AND STILL HAVE FAILED TO SHOW A WORKING ITEM 42 DAYS LATER.

This tactic is old and boring.
If they put this out on April 15th and said new gear  Sales start and ship May 1 with a demo on day one it would be a new better way of marketing.  Then on April 28th Say we finished early sales start today the 28th and we ship today we would be fucking stunned and I know I would have been interested in buying them. More of the same in btc land. oh well.

I'm surprised they did not rush either.  With gear such as dual miners normally one side is focused on and other is a gimmick.   

I would agree scrypt is just a tough game.  Unless they just blew the existing stuff away there is not a whole lot of interest there.

BTC miners are where most are focused.  So gear will be judged on BTC side even with the dual miner.   If they keep holding it up they better have a heck of a chip behind it.

[Meech]

April is going fast.  Launch in April was stated in the op.  Could we please get an update?  Would love to have some running inside my home again.

[Searing]

time will  if these are worth while .  for now it is mostly wait.  more often then not  the gear is always slow to market.  So the thread is now more then 13 pages long and older then 1 month.

14 pages long and 40 days old.

They just as well could have posted today.  Remember the blades came out at 3000 and the little gridseeds were 400 usd.

That was a different time and were first to the market as Scrypt asics, there is no way they could charge 400$ for 150gh sha.

No I agree  this is now not then, but I fear rapid cheap 256 gear will crash btc price.

Notice all sellers of btc mining gear have been selling at very high prices and btc has been stable or close to stable since jan.

But when sp20's and s-5's had the price drops and were a glut on the market late dec to early jan  btc crashed.

I fear this product comes out with a low price far better then current s-5 price and bitmaintech just goes to a price war.  So gear is cheap and btc price drops.

I see the btc market as very fragile and a flood of cheaper, newer ,better gear does more harm then good.

Notice I used a flood of cheaper  

You are well to fear massive dump of btc equipment knc announced on http://www.kncminer.com/blog/newsarchive FEB 3rd 2015 their tapeout of the 16nm chip
to be run on their giant IPO DATA hall private..these chips WILL NOT be available to anyone but KNC use on the data hall ...at least what they have said up to this
point in time....also KNC mines and cashes out to USD EACH DAY and Sam Cole says with this large Data Hall and the first with 16nm chips and cheap electric in
Iceland ( I heard 1c or 2c kwh) ...KNC has stated they plan to OWN 40% of all MINING of Bitcoin by the end of 2016

so yeah........unless we have some good news in adoption and some other stuff this MAY get ugly.....imho....really sucks the only company that has gotten
16nm chips to tapeout and beyond....is now completely centralized....

I wonder if the other chip makers will simply follow suit and go for complete centralization with the next generation of chips?

With a tapeout announcement of FEB 2nd we could see this farm hit the btc world any day now...imho....

[Opnsrc]

Just commenting to keep tabs on the thread.

[TheRealSteve]

Just commenting to keep tabs on the thread.

You know there's 'watch' and 'notify' links at the bottom of the thread content, right?
Unless you're using some manner of mobile app that doesn't show these options, that is.

They rushed it out and and still have failed to show a working item 42 days later.

This tactic is old and boring.
If they put this out on April 15th and said new gear  Sales start and ship May 1 with a demo on day one it would be a new better way of marketing.  Then on April 28th Say we finished early sales start today the 28th and we ship today we would be fucking stunned and I know I would have been interested in buying them.

Can debate marketing approaches, and I'm inclined to agree with you, but why would the marketing timing change whether or not you would be interested in buying them, if the launch date stays the same?

I fear this will be a .38 watt btc miner not a .29 watt btcminer.  then bitmaintech will psuh out there .28 watt miner pretty much killing this gear off.

If the launch date stays the same, then the impact of competitors' products would also stay the same.
( Speaking of which, there might be 2 new-ish ones in the near future as well - hurrah. )

Unless you get hyped up by fast release schedules, of course - psychology is a powerful thing

[philipma1957]

...

They rushed it out and and still have failed to show a working item 42 days later.

This tactic is old and boring.
If they put this out on April 15th and said new gear  Sales start and ship May 1 with a demo on day one it would be a new better way of marketing.  Then on April 28th Say we finished early sales start today the 28th and we ship today we would be fucking stunned and I know I would have been interested in buying them.

Can debate marketing approaches, and I'm inclined to agree with you, but why would the marketing timing change whether or not you would be interested in buying them, if the launch date stays the same?

...

Unless you get hyped up by fast release schedules, of course - psychology is a powerful thing

Note I just left the quote to which I have an answer.    Which you give in bold.

I really think saying we have new gear And here it is  a working product demo.  Order today we ship it tommorow is the most effective way to sell asic's now.

  Nevermind that they mined it for 1 month behind closed doors. Then put the announcement it is for sale.
I feel they announce it  as it is mining and try to get people 's interest going for 6 to 8 weeks  as they mine. It does not work for me.  Even if they are not mining and don't have any built just tired of it.

[Searing]

time will  if these are worth while .  for now it is mostly wait.  more often then not  the gear is always slow to market.  So the thread is now more then 13 pages long and older then 1 month.

14 pages long and 40 days old.

They just as well could have posted today.  Remember the blades came out at 3000 and the little gridseeds were 400 usd.

That was a different time and were first to the market as Scrypt asics, there is no way they could charge 400$ for 150gh sha.

No I agree  this is now not then, but I fear rapid cheap 256 gear will crash btc price.

Notice all sellers of btc mining gear have been selling at very high prices and btc has been stable or close to stable since jan.

But when sp20's and s-5's had the price drops and were a glut on the market late dec to early jan  btc crashed.

I fear this product comes out with a low price far better then current s-5 price and bitmaintech just goes to a price war.  So gear is cheap and btc price drops.

I see the btc market as very fragile and a flood of cheaper, newer ,better gear does more harm then good.

Notice I used a flood of cheaper  

You are well to fear massive dump of btc equipment knc announced on http://www.kncminer.com/blog/newsarchive FEB 3rd 2015 their tapeout of the 16nm chip
to be run on their giant IPO DATA hall private..these chips WILL NOT be available to anyone but KNC use on the data hall ...at least what they have said up to this
point in time....also KNC mines and cashes out to USD EACH DAY and Sam Cole says with this large Data Hall and the first with 16nm chips and cheap electric in
Iceland ( I heard 1c or 2c kwh) ...KNC has stated they plan to OWN 40% of all MINING of Bitcoin by the end of 2016

so yeah........unless we have some good news in adoption and some other stuff this MAY get ugly.....imho....really sucks the only company that has gotten
16nm chips to tapeout and beyond....is now completely centralized....

I wonder if the other chip makers will simply follow suit and go for complete centralization with the next generation of chips?

With a tapeout announcement of FEB 2nd we could see this farm hit the btc world any day now...imho....

So what you're saying is we need a bit of an equipment dump to stop KNC from pretty much becoming the minter of coins?

I'm saying if there is no big new other large asic maker gonna dump equp to compete instead of a bunch of centralized large miners..knc will rule the roost in the next
year for equipment in that they are weeks away from deploying their private 16nm chip farm which i think i heard is 5.5x the eff of say the past generation of stuff? (unsure
on that is what i think i heard)

so yeah perhaps it don't matter knc has 40% of the market and dumps to usd driving price down and down of btc with constant drip of selling and/or 3 or 4 large
mining operations competing with KNC and doing the same thing.......

just saying that much selling of btc to usd from my view is not gonna do much for getting the btc price up or for adoption ..

but then again at one time i believed in bfl so what do i know?

[Meech]

A picture of your upcoming products surely would do some good right about now.