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Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3901408 times)
Jonnybitc0in
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November 07, 2013, 06:18:37 AM
 #14741

Guys stop trying to push the price one way or another.
All scenarios for AM are possible!

AM might develop a good chip and win back decent network share
or AM might not develop a competitive chip and forfeit that goal.

The planned exchange platform can be something huge
or bitcoin's built-in exchange might kill that venture as well.

We simply don't know and we learned that FC won't say a word in advance.
Thus the value of this venture can be anything. From null to the moon.

To better visualize the concept of zero value recall how promising burnside's btct.co looked like. Especially after he started to legalize all aspects of the exchange.
But the day came when everything collapsed to near zero value in an instant. I hope that won't happen!

Think also about how would you feel in his shoes. Having all those earned bitcoins in his wallets. It would be itchy to go on some adventuring. Maybe even going to the moon literally.


Thank you for some much needed grounding in this thread. AM certainly is a null to da moon situation. I trust FC and burnside who just sent me the bitcoin leftover dust on btct, what a solid. Take a deep breath everyone. Panic holding indeed.
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November 07, 2013, 06:56:36 AM
 #14742

Left over dust ? What where. As a former btct user am I eligible.
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November 07, 2013, 07:00:07 AM
 #14743

Left over dust ? What where. As a former btct user am I eligible.

I'm assuming he's talking about the transaction fee hold-back.  If I remember correctly it was around .002 per user.
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November 07, 2013, 07:02:06 AM
 #14744

Left over dust ? What where. As a former btct user am I eligible.

I'm assuming he's talking about the transaction fee hold-back.  If I remember correctly it was around .002 per user.

0.00150000
Transaction fee of 0.0001
You get an e-mail on the spare change the last BTC-TC Withdrawal Notification‏ you will ever see
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November 07, 2013, 09:00:30 AM
 #14745

AM has the equivalent of 4million USD just waiting to be spent on next gen hardware currently in R&D phase.

$4M is about what it takes to get a 28nm design and maskset. Of course the problem is that if they have not spent it yet, they will end up last (or second last, there is always the possibility of beating BFL Smiley ) behind KnC, HF, CT, ActM, Bitmine, BlackArrow, .. possible BFL, Avalon, Bitfury,. By the time it could hit the market, market will be so cramped and margins will have eroded to the point where it might become difficult to just recover the NRE.

Quote
If calculate the ROI of the gen1 cube from AM you will notice that it is nearly as efficient as jupiters ("superior 28nm tech") assuming that the jupiters are even hashing at the advertised rate.

I cant be bothered to check the math on that, but even if true, who cares? It just shows what the market price per GH is roughly. The real problem is of course that AM needs like 1500 asics to match one Jupiter.  Unless you think Friedcat can produce these chips for $0.1, thats not good news.
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November 07, 2013, 09:09:41 AM
 #14746


Thank you for some much needed grounding in this thread. AM certainly is a null to da moon situation. I trust FC and burnside who just sent me the bitcoin leftover dust on btct, what a solid. Take a deep breath everyone. Panic holding indeed.

same here, I think that especially with Bitcoin developing so much in China that for instance Chinese bitpay would be a great service. Also it would diversify from mining only which is reeeaaaalllllyyyyy competitive nowadays
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November 07, 2013, 09:30:39 AM
 #14747

same here, I think that especially with Bitcoin developing so much in China that for instance Chinese bitpay would be a great service. Also it would diversify from mining only which is reeeaaaalllllyyyyy competitive nowadays

Did Friedcat ever told that hes working on "BitPay China" ? Or its another "1Ph in 2 weeks" misinterpretation  Undecided

I only see :

1. Automatic Payment
We are currently working on the payment back-end, and we might begin the design process next week as well.

Payment system out of pre-alpha.

nothing else. Its not just some automatic payment system for dividends? Like always ... we don't know, we can only speculate.

... Question Everything, Believe Nothing ...
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November 07, 2013, 09:43:24 AM
 #14748

same here, I think that especially with Bitcoin developing so much in China that for instance Chinese bitpay would be a great service. Also it would diversify from mining only which is reeeaaaalllllyyyyy competitive nowadays

Did Friedcat ever told that hes working on "BitPay China" ? Or its another "1Ph in 2 weeks" misinterpretation  Undecided

I only see :

1. Automatic Payment
We are currently working on the payment back-end, and we might begin the design process next week as well.

Payment system out of pre-alpha.

nothing else. Its not just some automatic payment system for dividends? Like always ... we don't know, we can only speculate.

oh, I thought the payment system was something like bitpay. I guess that was my wrong assumption...
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November 07, 2013, 09:57:42 AM
 #14749

oh, I thought the payment system was something like bitpay. I guess that was my wrong assumption...

Vee, maybe you're right. Without updates, we simple don't know. BTW I am also panic holding bagholder ...

... Question Everything, Believe Nothing ...
apollojmr
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November 07, 2013, 04:36:29 PM
 #14750

more like anxious bagholder? +1

gen2 lol... good luck with that... knc and bitfury will have friedcat for lunch by the time your gen2 is out...

+1 nice summary..  Cheesy

Compared to the last financial report:

- Mining revenue is decreasing rapidly; in fact it is less than a third of the reported revenue on the last fin. report
- Hardware sales are inline, -i.e not increasing at all and not increasing to cover mining loses
- Expenses are way up
- Plus no plan for the future has been reported.
- Shrinking revenues is not a good thing to see on a bitcoin-related company.

Conclusion: this time selling shares is justified. Owning shares is a high risk now.

Horrible summary..

AM has the equivalent of 4million USD just waiting to be spent on next gen hardware currently in R&D phase.

"expenses are way up" source?
"no plan for the future" FC has definitely set a clear path for AM future which will result in gen2 asics which will be much more efficient than current gen from AM.

Unjustified panic? +1
If you are such a pro bit fury or knc why even read here or post?

What you think you become. Bitrated user: apollojmr.
wtfvanity
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November 07, 2013, 04:58:32 PM
 #14751

Guys stop trying to push the price one way or another.
All scenarios for AM are possible!

AM might develop a good chip and win back decent network share
or AM might not develop a competitive chip and forfeit that goal.

The planned exchange platform can be something huge
or bitcoin's built-in exchange might kill that venture as well.

We simply don't know and we learned that FC won't say a word in advance.
Thus the value of this venture can be anything. From null to the moon.

To better visualize the concept of zero value recall how promising burnside's btct.co looked like. Especially after he started to legalize all aspects of the exchange.
But the day came when everything collapsed to near zero value in an instant. I hope that won't happen!

Think also about how would you feel in his shoes. Having all those earned bitcoins in his wallets. It would be itchy to go on some adventuring. Maybe even going to the moon literally.


How do you think they make money if they don't manipulate the price?

I've discovered the secret to making a fortune on BTC-E! It's doing the opposite of whatever the troll box says.

          WTF!     Don't Click Here              
          .      .            .            .        .            .            .          .        .     .               .            .             .            .            .           .            .     .               .         .              .           .            .            .            .     .      .     .    .     .          .            .          .            .            .           .              .     .            .            .           .            .               .         .            .     .            .            .             .            .              .            .            .      .            .            .            .            .            .            .             .          .
realdos
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November 08, 2013, 04:44:09 AM
 #14752

Not sure if this has been posted before. Some updates from AM:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0ByWHHc0u_thNSWhHS18xM2ZXSUU
Franktank
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November 08, 2013, 04:55:02 AM
 #14753

Not sure if this has been posted before. Some updates from AM:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0ByWHHc0u_thNSWhHS18xM2ZXSUU

WHERE DID YOU GET THIS?!
jimmothy
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November 08, 2013, 04:58:17 AM
 #14754

Not sure if this has been posted before. Some updates from AM:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0ByWHHc0u_thNSWhHS18xM2ZXSUU

FC coming through on yet another promise.

Quote
Technical Features of ASICMINER Immersion Cooling Clusters

● State-of-the-art technology in a modular design

● Standard server rack form-factor for ease of deployment

● Built to work for several generations of hashing modules

● Vital system parts from Germany and USA

● Space for >5000 current generation BE blades, several times more with future board

footprint reduced or with multilayer stacking

● Capable of handling 4X-5X the power and heat density of current system

● 8X power and heat density with simple addition of more condensers

● Much increased hashrate/power density with reduced die sizes (40nm, 28nm)

● Unparalleled heat transfer capabilities

● Blade/chip form factor allows for unseen density increase per board

● Total system size smaller than standard shipping containers

● Stacked with an inexpensive radiator

(evaporative cooling tower possible for further electricity savings in dry climates)

● Total facility 860A 3-phase power (room for expansion and higher density)

● Cooling power & cost effectively 97% less than other methods

(despite Hong Kong tropical weather)

Indirect advantages:

● Frees up power supply capacity for further mining hardware at same facility

(ie. electricity normally spent on cooling used for mining hardware)

● Extends economical and technical lifespan of hardware through less temperature

fluctuations on hardware and less maintenance on cooling system (ie. no dust)

● Cuts down cooling overhead during engineering phase

● Extends range of possible locations, including harsh environments

● Silent operation, minimum impact on existing infrastructure

● Could be deployed into existing data center without adding additional CRACs

Looks like good news. Everyone should read the entire document on immersion cooling. Also is that not the most beautiful shipping container?
romerun
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November 08, 2013, 05:14:34 AM
 #14755

holy poo
rudrigorc2
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November 08, 2013, 05:16:34 AM
 #14756

Not sure if this has been posted before. Some updates from AM:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0ByWHHc0u_thNSWhHS18xM2ZXSUU

WHERE DID YOU GET THIS?!

Where?

Looks great anyway.

Friedcat about to upgrade to Boiling Cat
ninjarobot
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November 08, 2013, 05:17:56 AM
Last edit: November 08, 2013, 05:36:36 AM by ninjarobot
 #14757

This looks really good! If AM is able to get back into the ASIC game with gen2 or gen3 chips I think friedcat will have a wonderful high-performance, low-cost turn key mining stack.

The Google drive directory is owned by 'Alex Kampl' (From Lik Sang fame? Console mod chips etc.). Could he perhaps be the AM partner that is working with FC on the Hong Kong immersion cooling project?

EDIT: looks like it, the files were posted by an employee @ http://www.allied-control.com/

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November 08, 2013, 05:18:48 AM
 #14758

Not sure if this has been posted before. Some updates from AM:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0ByWHHc0u_thNSWhHS18xM2ZXSUU

for those who want a Chinese version:
http://www.8btc.com/asicminer-immersion-cooling-cluster-development
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November 08, 2013, 05:24:27 AM
Last edit: November 08, 2013, 05:39:03 AM by freedomno1
 #14759


Swear I need to find the Chinese version of this thread and stalk it all day XD

Pushing up this post to current page looks interesting

Not sure if this has been posted before. Some updates from AM:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0ByWHHc0u_thNSWhHS18xM2ZXSUU

FC coming through on yet another promise.

Quote
Technical Features of ASICMINER Immersion Cooling Clusters

● State-of-the-art technology in a modular design

● Standard server rack form-factor for ease of deployment

● Built to work for several generations of hashing modules

● Vital system parts from Germany and USA

● Space for >5000 current generation BE blades, several times more with future board

footprint reduced or with multilayer stacking

● Capable of handling 4X-5X the power and heat density of current system

● 8X power and heat density with simple addition of more condensers

● Much increased hashrate/power density with reduced die sizes (40nm, 28nm)

● Unparalleled heat transfer capabilities

● Blade/chip form factor allows for unseen density increase per board

● Total system size smaller than standard shipping containers

● Stacked with an inexpensive radiator

(evaporative cooling tower possible for further electricity savings in dry climates)

● Total facility 860A 3-phase power (room for expansion and higher density)

● Cooling power & cost effectively 97% less than other methods

(despite Hong Kong tropical weather)

Indirect advantages:

● Frees up power supply capacity for further mining hardware at same facility

(ie. electricity normally spent on cooling used for mining hardware)

● Extends economical and technical lifespan of hardware through less temperature

fluctuations on hardware and less maintenance on cooling system (ie. no dust)

● Cuts down cooling overhead during engineering phase

● Extends range of possible locations, including harsh environments

● Silent operation, minimum impact on existing infrastructure

● Could be deployed into existing data center without adding additional CRACs

Looks like good news. Everyone should read the entire document on immersion cooling. Also is that not the most beautiful shipping container?

I like their strategy moving to long term bull short term bear Smiley
Vision is important

The Bitcoin mining market is very competitive and for hardware manufacturers and industrial
miners it has become extremely expensive and risky to engage in an arms race. Moving to new
generation ASICs and racing forward won’t be enough in the near future to stay competitive in
such a fast moving market.

The key factors to make industrial mining profitable is access to low prized energy, minimized
energy bills, small space requirements, rapid deployment, low infrastructure overhead on
the facility level, organized and simplified logistics, a design that can be re-used for several
generations, and good experienced people with an appetite for new and untested terrain. As
a result, the mining lifespan of each generation will be greatly improved and mining income
maximized.

Such a mining infrastructure can become a profitable investment on its own and not just
costly business expenditure. ASICMINER believes that immersion cooling can play a vital role
in the very near future to establish a worldwide structure where many of these key factors can
become the norm.

If combined with dedicated resources to ensure ongoing smooth and future-proof hardware
development, the synergies can lead to substantially increased income, and investments can be
very worthwhile.

Due to the complexity and stage of development of this rather new technology, it is very unlikely that we will be
seeing efficient, reliable and safe basement-built immersion cooling systems significant in size
or number in the near future.
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November 08, 2013, 05:28:01 AM
 #14760

Full doc:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1foqSvwX5elsVGG4VkowchCOLBBq7uxwe2qAkX_ltGPE/edit?pli=1

 Cool

Further Information about this Investment

Just as the Bitcoin network is pushing the boundaries on a social and economic scale, industrial mining is testing the limits (hardware manufacturing, deployment, cooling, power distribution, infrastructure, connectivity, administration, etc).  

Today’s Bitcoin mining clusters far exceed the capabilities of even modern facilities. Deployment in commercial datacenters is difficult due to the high power and cooling density of their infrastructure and the pricing. Under normal circumstances it leads to unrealistic high costs and shortens the commercial lifespan of each generation unnecessarily. Deployment in purpose-built facilities is a risky endeavor with many unknown factors and a lot of overhead. Access to professionals is expensive and often outpaced by the rapid changes in the world of Bitcoins.

The Bitcoin mining market is very competitive and for hardware manufacturers and industrial miners it has become extremely expensive and risky to engage in an arms race. Moving to new generation ASICs and racing forward won’t be enough in the near future to stay competitive in such a fast moving market.

The key factors to make industrial mining profitable is access to low prized energy, minimized energy bills, small space requirements, rapid deployment, low infrastructure overhead on the facility level, organized and simplified logistics, a design that can be re-used for several generations, and good experienced people with an appetite for new and untested terrain. As a result, the mining lifespan of each generation will be greatly improved and mining income maximized.

Such a mining infrastructure can become a profitable investment on its own and not just costly business expenditure. ASICMINER believes that immersion cooling can play a vital role in the very near future to establish a worldwide structure where many of these key factors can become the norm.

If combined with dedicated resources to ensure ongoing smooth and future-proof hardware development, the synergies can lead to substantially increased income, and investments can be very worthwhile.

More information about Passive Two-Phase Immersion Cooling
In a two-phase immersion cooled system, electronic components are submerged into a bath of dielectric heat transfer liquids, which are much better heat conductors than air, water or oil (up to 4000X more efficient). All unnecessary cooling parts on board and enclosure level are eliminated, thus allowing efficient and densely packed mining clusters. Enclosures and infrastructure function as “containers” that can hold any current or future hardware, without the need to make any changes to it. This benefit can play an important role, due to the comparable short lifespan of mining hardware.

While the theory of immersion cooling technology sounds simple, it is without doubt in its infancy in the civil market – and so it is of great advantage to have formed a professional partnership with a motivated specialist team that also believes in Bitcoin. Due to the complexity and stage of development of this rather new technology, it is very unlikely that we will be seeing efficient, reliable and safe basement-built immersion cooling systems significant in size or number in the near future.

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