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Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3901473 times)
BitFlow
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November 09, 2013, 03:52:50 AM
 #14821

This might be a bit off topic, but I have no idea where else to ask. Does anyone know where I can find potential sellers of ASICMINER direct shares? I want to buy some.
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November 09, 2013, 03:57:29 AM
 #14822

can anyone provide a sum of what's transpired with asicminer over the last few days?  thanks
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November 09, 2013, 04:11:41 AM
 #14823

This might be a bit off topic, but I have no idea where else to ask. Does anyone know where I can find potential sellers of ASICMINER direct shares? I want to buy some.

Why not buy at Havelock and then convert yourself? Its not much of a market but the best thing we have right now.
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November 09, 2013, 04:22:55 AM
 #14824

This might be a bit off topic, but I have no idea where else to ask. Does anyone know where I can find potential sellers of ASICMINER direct shares? I want to buy some.

Why not buy at Havelock and then convert yourself? Its not much of a market but the best thing we have right now.

There are many signs pointing to the shares being underpriced on the exchanges (currently 0.78BTC on HL). I personally want to stay as far away from HL and all other exchanges seem down. Looking in the auction forums you can see that there are multiple threads of folks offering to buy direct shares but nobody selling. I think the current valuation of ASICminer is closer to 1BTC than anything else, but is being kept low because nobody wants to put money on the exchanges. Meanwhile all the big holders sold around 3BTC and nobody who bought at this price wants to take the loss [i do see some folks making money via arbitrage if willing to take the gamble]. We're experiencing illiquidity, which is not good for the commodity's price or the holders. We need a new leader like BTC.TC was that the community believes in. Short of that, holders need to believe in the cat.
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November 09, 2013, 04:26:47 AM
 #14825

Looking in the auction forums you can see that there are multiple threads or folks offering to buy direct shares but nobody selling.

Offer more money then, simple as that (not directly aimed at you, whoever is trying to buy) Smiley
When you find the price that perks a seller into accepting it, well then you've found fair market price haven't you.

Quote
Short of that, holders need to believe in the cat.

Sounds like we already do.

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November 09, 2013, 04:56:15 AM
 #14826

This might be a bit off topic, but I have no idea where else to ask. Does anyone know where I can find potential sellers of ASICMINER direct shares? I want to buy some.

Why not buy at Havelock and then convert yourself? Its not much of a market but the best thing we have right now.

There are many signs pointing to the shares being underpriced on the exchanges (currently 0.78BTC on HL). I personally want to stay as far away from HL and all other exchanges seem down. Looking in the auction forums you can see that there are multiple threads of folks offering to buy direct shares but nobody selling. I think the current valuation of ASICminer is closer to 1BTC than anything else, but is being kept low because nobody wants to put money on the exchanges. Meanwhile all the big holders sold around 3BTC and nobody who bought at this price wants to take the loss [i do see some folks making money via arbitrage if willing to take the gamble]. We're experiencing illiquidity, which is not good for the commodity's price or the holders. We need a new leader like BTC.TC was that the community believes in. Short of that, holders need to believe in the cat.
May I ask why your so weary of Havelock? Is it because of the precedent or something else?
empoweoqwj
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November 09, 2013, 05:36:58 AM
 #14827

This might be a bit off topic, but I have no idea where else to ask. Does anyone know where I can find potential sellers of ASICMINER direct shares? I want to buy some.

Why not buy at Havelock and then convert yourself? Its not much of a market but the best thing we have right now.

There are many signs pointing to the shares being underpriced on the exchanges (currently 0.78BTC on HL). I personally want to stay as far away from HL and all other exchanges seem down. Looking in the auction forums you can see that there are multiple threads of folks offering to buy direct shares but nobody selling. I think the current valuation of ASICminer is closer to 1BTC than anything else, but is being kept low because nobody wants to put money on the exchanges. Meanwhile all the big holders sold around 3BTC and nobody who bought at this price wants to take the loss [i do see some folks making money via arbitrage if willing to take the gamble]. We're experiencing illiquidity, which is not good for the commodity's price or the holders. We need a new leader like BTC.TC was that the community believes in. Short of that, holders need to believe in the cat.

Well if shares are undervalued at havelock, simply buy some there, and convert to direct shares. In a few days time you end up with cheap direct shares .... don't see the risk, unless you think havelock is going under this week?

But yeah, the whole "virtual" share market is a mess at the moment. Isn't that on AM's to-do list still?
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November 09, 2013, 05:51:11 AM
 #14828

This might be a bit off topic, but I have no idea where else to ask. Does anyone know where I can find potential sellers of ASICMINER direct shares? I want to buy some.

Why not buy at Havelock and then convert yourself? Its not much of a market but the best thing we have right now.

There are many signs pointing to the shares being underpriced on the exchanges (currently 0.78BTC on HL). I personally want to stay as far away from HL and all other exchanges seem down. Looking in the auction forums you can see that there are multiple threads of folks offering to buy direct shares but nobody selling. I think the current valuation of ASICminer is closer to 1BTC than anything else, but is being kept low because nobody wants to put money on the exchanges. Meanwhile all the big holders sold around 3BTC and nobody who bought at this price wants to take the loss [i do see some folks making money via arbitrage if willing to take the gamble]. We're experiencing illiquidity, which is not good for the commodity's price or the holders. We need a new leader like BTC.TC was that the community believes in. Short of that, holders need to believe in the cat.

Well if shares are undervalued at havelock, simply buy some there, and convert to direct shares. In a few days time you end up with cheap direct shares .... don't see the risk, unless you think havelock is going under this week?

But yeah, the whole "virtual" share market is a mess at the moment. Isn't that on AM's to-do list still?

The fact that they allied with a Panamanian Exchange and still have a working relationship with the banks through canadianbitcoins hints that their are no real signs of a close down in the short term or mid but I admit one exchange on the block does make it a bit worrysome and it will take some time for people to start regaining confidence in exchanges in general again.
Not including 796 Chinese version or crypto-stocks

As for auction price I think no one wants to take a loss and most auctions were above 1
So the market is undersupplied for direct share selling at these levels
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November 09, 2013, 07:10:36 AM
 #14829

Quote from: prancing_around

Why not buy at Havelock and then convert yourself? Its not much of a market but the best thing we have right now.

(...)


May I ask why your so weary of Havelock? Is it because of the precedent or something else?

I have no intel on anything, I am just worried about the stability of the operation. Right now they are playing the Canadian card as they should. I just don't have as much faith in the people involved as I had in burnside, to the point where I see no point in risking my direct shares or Bitcoins involved. That might change down the line, but I would say auction forum might work fine too: securities gain liquidity from being traded on exchanges but then you're trading something that is already abstracted an extra time. Simply put: I like my direct shares. I trust burnside and I hope friedcat comes up with an alternative exchange platform - wait and see for now.
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November 09, 2013, 07:17:40 AM
 #14830

Meanwhile all the big holders sold around 3BTC and nobody who bought at this price wants to take the loss [i do see some folks making money via arbitrage if willing to take the gamble].

Not "all", hardly anyone. When you make shareholders address analysis, you'll see that we had only 2-3 sellers from big guys at recent spike.

I wonder if the current price of bitcoins shouldnt lead to the stop of divs kept back.

Do you think that AM is still retaining something from dividends? I don't think so, from where? For last div we had 375 BTC from mining & 170 from franchising, it gives you 0.00136/share (without expenses), despite this we received awesome 0.0029/share (more than double), thanks to HW sales maybe. This week seem to be slowest ever, AM is not in rush and we'll likely see another ATL dividends.

But if the things are on the right track for long term, i am OK with that.

I hope that we'll see some update from Friedcat this weekend, not just CUBE announcement.(its more than month from last one, i dont count "quick updates")

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November 09, 2013, 07:20:42 AM
 #14831

At this point it doesn't matter as much WHEN you come to market, the ASIC 'new tech' rush is over

I beg to differ. Market value of those asics is directly and proportionally related to difficulty and therefore to your time to market. Whats true for an individual miner is just as true as for a company selfmining or selling gear. You go tell a KnC or HF customer it doesnt really matter when they get their gear.

And if you meant to say they lost the race anyway and it doesnt matter anymore if its February or June, I also beg to differ -except for the part where they lost. This race is far from over; in fact it has barely even begun yet and it will continue until next summer at least. Every month you are late your margins are almost cut in half. KnC very much did the right thing by "rushing" to market with a far from perfect product. Their profits from their october shipments alone would pay for another, more perfect design.


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November 09, 2013, 08:23:09 AM
 #14832

Quote from: prancing_around

Why not buy at Havelock and then convert yourself? Its not much of a market but the best thing we have right now.

(...)


May I ask why your so weary of Havelock? Is it because of the precedent or something else?

I have no intel on anything, I am just worried about the stability of the operation. Right now they are playing the Canadian card as they should. I just don't have as much faith in the people involved as I had in burnside, to the point where I see no point in risking my direct shares or Bitcoins involved. That might change down the line, but I would say auction forum might work fine too: securities gain liquidity from being traded on exchanges but then you're trading something that is already abstracted an extra time. Simply put: I like my direct shares. I trust burnside and I hope friedcat comes up with an alternative exchange platform - wait and see for now.

You only have to trust havelock will be around for a week in order to (a) put some funds into havelock, (b) buy some PT shares, (c) convert them to direct shares.

Of all the risks in the bitcoin world, that's pretty far down the list.

You can pay 0.7B to 0.8B at havelock, or 1B+ at auction. You really want to pay a 20%+ premium for the risk of using havelock for a week?
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November 09, 2013, 08:42:15 AM
 #14833

I agree - not all big holders sold, only some. And yes there is money to be made for somebody willing to play arbitrage game. Somebody Else.
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November 09, 2013, 02:05:09 PM
 #14834

In friendly cooperation with highend-computer.de (the point of contact for powerful,
water-cooled Silent PCs), we can now offer water coolers for the blades, manufactured by ekwb
Smiley
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246020.msg3528099#msg3528099 for more and pics

There are a lot of reliable cooling solutions out there. If friedcat's own distributors are selling third party solutions, who will sell his?
Seems like AM is building castles in the sky and taking the wrong path with the cooling and computer centers stuff for which there are already excellent solutions out there and many strong competitors long fighting successfully on that space. Friedcat should better concentrate on the ASIC race or lose it completely.
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November 09, 2013, 02:49:27 PM
 #14835

In friendly cooperation with highend-computer.de (the point of contact for powerful,
water-cooled Silent PCs), we can now offer water coolers for the blades, manufactured by ekwb
Smiley
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246020.msg3528099#msg3528099 for more and pics

There are a lot of reliable cooling solutions out there. If friedcat's own distributors are selling third party solutions, who will sell his?
Seems like AM is building castles in the sky and taking the wrong path with the cooling and computer centers stuff for which there are already excellent solutions out there and many strong competitors long fighting successfully on that space. Friedcat should better concentrate on the ASIC race or lose it completely.

Completely different, and very basic, water-based cooling. Its like saying "other people sell cooling fans, why should AM bother with this stuff."

I trust AM have done their market research and found there is a real need for the advanced solution AM has developed, and they can add value to their company with all the time and money invested in it.

If they haven't done the research, and their solution adds little value, then sure, they are sunk, but I don't believe for a minute AM are that stupid not to pick their projects carefully. Time will tell though.
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November 09, 2013, 02:56:27 PM
 #14836

AM realize one thing - the days of "home mining" are swiftly coming to an end. Its not a market worth looking at. There will be nobody mining at home this time next year.

They are looking forward at a future they see as inevitable (mining on an industrial scale only) and planning solutions for it. I for one love innovative, forward thinking companies, not "I'm only prepared to copy other people" companies. If they fail, they fail, but better to fail trying.
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November 09, 2013, 03:08:02 PM
 #14837

AM realize one thing - the days of "home mining" are swiftly coming to an end. Its not a market worth looking at. There will be nobody mining at home this time next year.

They are looking forward at a future they see as inevitable (mining on an industrial scale only) and planning solutions for it. I for one love innovative, forward thinking companies, not "I'm only prepared to copy other people" companies. If they fail, they fail, but better to fail trying.

The day bitcoin mining is just done by a few corporations and/or entities/governments, as you imply, that day bitcoin will be dead and we'll then better look for another coin folks. Centralization is not good. You better build solutions for the regular guy and for small enterprises. That's exactly what makes bitcoin so successful.
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November 09, 2013, 03:43:39 PM
 #14838

The day bitcoin mining is just done by a few corporations and/or entities/governments, as you imply, that day bitcoin will be dead and we'll then better look for another coin folks. Centralization is not good. You better build solutions for the regular guy and for small enterprises. That's exactly what makes bitcoin so successful.
centralization and industrialization are not the same thing.

how much of the current network are small guys, and how much are big guys?

no one builds computers in their basements anymore, but computer manufacturing is anything but centralized.

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November 09, 2013, 03:53:58 PM
 #14839

AM realize one thing - the days of "home mining" are swiftly coming to an end. Its not a market worth looking at. There will be nobody mining at home this time next year.

They are looking forward at a future they see as inevitable (mining on an industrial scale only) and planning solutions for it. I for one love innovative, forward thinking companies, not "I'm only prepared to copy other people" companies. If they fail, they fail, but better to fail trying.

The day bitcoin mining is just done by a few corporations and/or entities/governments, as you imply, that day bitcoin will be dead and we'll then better look for another coin folks. Centralization is not good. You better build solutions for the regular guy and for small enterprises. That's exactly what makes bitcoin so successful.
Agree with empoweoqwj. I don't see the implication there will only be a few large miners. There can be many industrial scale farms, and they in turn can be owned by many shareholders, in addition to corporations (thus more shareholders indirectly) and gov't depts (public, so even more 'indirect beneficiaries') that require their own in-house facilities. So if anything, more de-centralised than ever before, as it would shift from the tech savvy home operator segment into the mainstream.
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November 09, 2013, 04:29:24 PM
 #14840

In friendly cooperation with highend-computer.de (the point of contact for powerful,
water-cooled Silent PCs), we can now offer water coolers for the blades, manufactured by ekwb
Smiley
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246020.msg3528099#msg3528099 for more and pics

There are a lot of reliable cooling solutions out there. If friedcat's own distributors are selling third party solutions, who will sell his?
Seems like AM is building castles in the sky and taking the wrong path with the cooling and computer centers stuff for which there are already excellent solutions out there and many strong competitors long fighting successfully on that space. Friedcat should better concentrate on the ASIC race or lose it completely.

Completely different, and very basic, water-based cooling. Its like saying "other people sell cooling fans, why should AM bother with this stuff."

I trust AM have done their market research and found there is a real need for the advanced solution AM has developed, and they can add value to their company with all the time and money invested in it.

If they haven't done the research, and their solution adds little value, then sure, they are sunk, but I don't believe for a minute AM are that stupid not to pick their projects carefully. Time will tell though.

I'm sorry these already existed before FC made them (atleast on a functional level) and have been done for several years. . . http://www.grcooling.com/
In fact, if you look at the diagrams that slide by on the home page with the shipping container cooling solution, you'll see that it's pretty much the same thing.  It's an extremely niche market, that's already established solutions that have a high level of efficiency,  seems like a silly road (lol SR) to go down with limited funds.  The reason AM exists is because it was in a high demand market with few solutions.  Now that alternatives have begun to saturate the asic market, the solution is to run to a market that has been saturated solved and refined for years?  What's going to give the credibility and brand name recognition to FC that will allow a foot in the door? Look we were first to market in bitcoin, now you should buy a water cooing system from us!  I don't think they have anything that will affect share price, because the premise is not logical.   Now, in all fairness, it looks more like FC found a solution that is cheaper (than buying a professional product) for them to use in their own facility.  And that would make sense, but if you think this is some revolutionary concept your going to surprise the server hosting industry with and make millions.. . .then that's just a lack of knowledge imo.  I could be wrong, but this doesn't seem like something that should be touted as a new innovative solution.  
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