ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[Endlessa]

In friendly cooperation with highend-computer.de (the point of contact for powerful,
water-cooled Silent PCs), we can now offer water coolers for the blades, manufactured by ekwb

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246020.msg3528099#msg3528099 for more and pics

There are a lot of reliable cooling solutions out there. If friedcat's own distributors are selling third party solutions, who will sell his?
Seems like AM is building castles in the sky and taking the wrong path with the cooling and computer centers stuff for which there are already excellent solutions out there and many strong competitors long fighting successfully on that space. Friedcat should better concentrate on the ASIC race or lose it completely.

Completely different, and very basic, water-based cooling. Its like saying "other people sell cooling fans, why should AM bother with this stuff."

I trust AM have done their market research and found there is a real need for the advanced solution AM has developed, and they can add value to their company with all the time and money invested in it.

If they haven't done the research, and their solution adds little value, then sure, they are sunk, but I don't believe for a minute AM are that stupid not to pick their projects carefully. Time will tell though.

I'm sorry these already existed before FC made them (atleast on a functional level) and have been done for several years. . . http://www.grcooling.com/
In fact, if you look at the diagrams that slide by on the home page with the shipping container cooling solution, you'll see that it's pretty much the same thing.  It's an extremely niche market, that's already established solutions that have a high level of efficiency,  seems like a silly road (lol SR) to go down with limited funds.  The reason AM exists is because it was in a high demand market with few solutions.  Now that alternatives have begun to saturate the asic market, the solution is to run to a market that has been saturated solved and refined for years?  What's going to give the credibility and brand name recognition to FC that will allow a foot in the door? Look we were first to market in bitcoin, now you should buy a water cooing system from us!  I don't think they have anything that will affect share price, because the premise is not logical.   Now, in all fairness, it looks more like FC found a solution that is cheaper (than buying a professional product) for them to use in their own facility.  And that would make sense, but if you think this is some revolutionary concept your going to surprise the server hosting industry with and make millions.. . .then that's just a lack of knowledge imo.  I could be wrong, but this doesn't seem like something that should be touted as a new innovative solution.  

[SebastianJu]

Do you think that AM is still retaining something from dividends? I don't think so, from where? For last div we had 375 BTC from mining & 170 from franchising, it gives you 0.00136/share (without expenses), despite this we received awesome 0.0029/share (more than double), thanks to HW sales maybe. This week seem to be slowest ever, AM is not in rush and we'll likely see another ATL dividends.

Im pretty sure divs are retained. Since friedcat claimed this will move on some weeks and the divs constantly dropped over the weeks. If the retaining would have stopped then iam sure we would have seen a bigger div one week. I doubt that the retaining only is 10% so that we wouldnt notice when it stops.

[chairforce1]

What is the average count of mined blocks a day for AM? So far we have four today.
https://blockchain.info/blocks/ASICMiner

[SmiGueL]

What is the average count of mined blocks a day for AM? So far we have four today.
https://blockchain.info/blocks/ASICMiner

Then my calculations say that for today until now the average is 4.

_{*The mined blocks depends on the actual difficulty, the hashrate, and a little bit of luck.. So it actually varies every day..
According to the hashrate of the last few weeks 4 blocks in less than 1 day is pretty nice. (Which is probably because of that little bit of luck. It equals 100+ TH/s. )}

[DeathAndTaxes]

Immersion cooling is probably impractical for home miners.

I hope to change that.  It probably will be impractical for "the what is a Bitcoin, I just want to buy something, push a button, and get lots of coinz" miner but for the hobbyist I think it is possible (not certain but possible) for immersion cooling to be used.  There is an added bonus for home use of immersion cooling and that is using the waste heat.  A moderate sized rig has sufficient thermal output to provide a home with "free" (or at least 0 energy cost) hot water and/or whole house heating.

As for AM immersion cooling operation.  People shouldn't assume it is a slam dunk super duper money maker.  The economics are challenging however there are two potential bright spots:

1) Immersion cooling at its simplest form is a tank with fluid, a condenser and some mechanism to remove heat from the condenser (i.e. chilled water supply, freon, warm water) .  As hardware evolves old hardware can be replaced with new hardware.  Hardware from one vendor can be replaced with hardware from another vendor.  If it can fit in the tank it can be cooled with immersion cooling.  Compare this to heatsinks, heatpipe coolers, and waterblocks.  They are generally work on a specific system and must be scrapped when the board is obsolete.  Try mounting a Avalon heatsink on a Hasfast mining board.  The capital costs of immersion cooling are higher but they have a long lifespan long enough to support multiple generations of ASIC hardware.  The tank itself has no moving parts and the mechanism for cooling the condenser can be adapted to the location.

2) SHA-2 ASICS are extremely energy dense and the the density has been rising.  One reason that immersion cooling has never caught on in the server world is that while a server may use a lot of power (say 1200W for high end quad core, high memory server) it occupies a relatively large volume.  This mean a large amount of (very expensive) working fluid is needed.  Now one "could" redesign a server to be more compact but then you trade reduced fluid cost for higher custom fabrication costs.  It is a lose-lose without massive (i.e. millions of servers) economies of scale.   Bitcoin ASICs are very energy dense and getting more energy dense.  Take a look at HashFast or Cointerra.  300W+ in a board that is 100mm by 300mm.  This brings its own complications.  We have gone from low capacity heatsinks and fans (ASICMiner/Avalon) to Copper Heat Pipe CPU Coolers (KNC) to Waterblocks (HF & Cointerra). 

[bitcoin.newsfeed]

Do you think that AM is still retaining something from dividends? I don't think so, from where? For last div we had 375 BTC from mining & 170 from franchising, it gives you 0.00136/share (without expenses), despite this we received awesome 0.0029/share (more than double), thanks to HW sales maybe. This week seem to be slowest ever, AM is not in rush and we'll likely see another ATL dividends.

Im pretty sure divs are retained. Since friedcat claimed this will move on some weeks and the divs constantly dropped over the weeks. If the retaining would have stopped then iam sure we would have seen a bigger div one week. I doubt that the retaining only is 10% so that we wouldnt notice when it stops.

You say bigger divs ... from where? BTCs aren't growing on trees, AM has BTCs from mining,sales and franchising.

1. Please show me from where should be these BTC retained?
2. And tell me for what? AM has already millions cash on accounts another millions in products and thousands of BTCs surplus in AM wallets, check last financial statement

[KS]

...
1. Please show me from where should be these BTC retained?
...

Not mining, but possibly hardware sales.

It's not really the time to worry about a 10% difference in divs (number totally made up), they're going down to zero ATM. Mining revenue is exponentially decreasing and so is hardware sale revenue (since the price is tied to the potential mining revenue generated by the equipment).

Hopefully AM will rise again, but now, it's winter time.

[chriswilmer]

Hmm... AM is having a lucky mining day.

[SebastianJu]

Do you think that AM is still retaining something from dividends? I don't think so, from where? For last div we had 375 BTC from mining & 170 from franchising, it gives you 0.00136/share (without expenses), despite this we received awesome 0.0029/share (more than double), thanks to HW sales maybe. This week seem to be slowest ever, AM is not in rush and we'll likely see another ATL dividends.

Im pretty sure divs are retained. Since friedcat claimed this will move on some weeks and the divs constantly dropped over the weeks. If the retaining would have stopped then iam sure we would have seen a bigger div one week. I doubt that the retaining only is 10% so that we wouldnt notice when it stops.

You say bigger divs ... from where? BTCs aren't growing on trees, AM has BTCs from mining,sales and franchising.

1. Please show me from where should be these BTC retained?
2. And tell me for what? AM has already millions cash on accounts another millions in products and thousands of BTCs surplus in AM wallets, check last financial statement

AM has the biggest income from selling since a longer time. And the going down of divpayments are pretty consisting. We dont have the sales figures, it only shows in divs. So when friedcat retains we wont check it.
AM might have much money but friedcat stated they want to collect much funds to fund the development of newer tech and all the employees for this. Something like that.

I might be wrong but im relatively sure we would see at least a light jump in divs once the retaining stops.

I really would like to see friedcat communicating... i didnt get an answer to my latest pm too. He was different at the start of asicminer. He answered all pm's. I liked that definitely more. Maybe he doesnt know how to delegate.

[binaryFate]

The divs are just peanuts now, and will certainly get closer to zero soon. This is only for a period of time, but meanwhile who cares if we get 0.001 instead of 0.002? Or even zero? FC could retain 100% that would be ok for me: I believe he'll make a proper use of it, while on my side it would be just a bit of dust currently.

[bitcoin.newsfeed]

I really would like to see friedcat communicating... i didnt get an answer to my latest pm too. He was different at the start of asicminer. He answered all pm's. I liked that definitely more. Maybe he doesnt know how to delegate.

You know, people change, at the start he was a smart China geek, now thanks to the bitcoin community, he is sitting on one of the biggest stacks of btc worth millions, this can definitely change the man ... but who knows, maybe its just a shortage of time instead of lack of care about humble shareholders.

Like others, I would also like the regular updates. Now its Sunday in China and we'll likely see CUBE announcement, maybe with some other news ? Lets see

[minerpumpkin]

Might be but i had a different impression of friedcat when i started. I doubt he got corrupted now. At least he could hire a PR-Person that is with him and can bring infos online. It shouldnt be so hard to do and would give many people peace of mind.

Ha, that sounds like all the complaints about yxt. Very honest people, but at times just a tad too silent.
Better than the other way around, at least!

[SebastianJu]

Might be but i had a different impression of friedcat when i started. I doubt he got corrupted now. At least he could hire a PR-Person that is with him and can bring infos online. It shouldnt be so hard to do and would give many people peace of mind.

Ha, that sounds like all the complaints about yxt. Very honest people, but at times just a tad too silent.
Better than the other way around, at least!

Sure. But i get allergic about this noncommunicating behaviour in bitcoin land. Im switching between anger and resigning on this topic. What would i give for securities that consequently communicate even in the later stages...

[antirack]

People shouldn't assume it is a slam dunk super duper money maker.

Cooling aside, don't forget the infrastructure side of things. Assuming the plan is at least half baked and nothing happens to Bitcoin, this will be a super "super duper money maker".

The first system is tested with gen1 blades and basically just sits there waiting for something more powerful to come up. When AM gets new hardware, they can simply deploy the new boards where the 5000 gen1 blades are now sitting, the doc states they can handle the power and heat. The factory is probably a stone throw away from the farm. They don't even need to touch a power supply or LAN cable. That's how cloud hardware  should be built IMHO. If truly mobile, they could populate the farm at a factory and move it to the data center without work being done there. Or just park the container near a power feed and plugin an internet connection. This process can be repeated as many times as needed till the end-game.

Not sure on the 40nm or 28nm specs, but if it would be anything like KNC Jupiter (4 boards per 550GH/s unit?) they'd be replacing more than 5000*10.7Gh/s with over 678,500 GH/s within a matter of days or even hours (assuming they have enough Chinese factory workers to stick 5000 boards into backplanes). They don't even need to install a single power supply or LAN cable, it's already there. Who else could do that, and how? As the document said, "its implications go beyond this simple description". I think the question is not if it happens, it is when it happens. For all we know, if the container means anything there could be multiple locations doing the same thing at the same time.

But i get allergic about this noncommunicating behaviour in bitcoin land. Im switching between anger and resigning on this topic. What would i give for securities that consequently communicate even in the later stages...

FC has so far over-delivered not only once. They only sell what they have, they don't hype...
If we force him to spend his time communicating things that may change at a later point, or holding our hands on a daily basis, we are forcing him to give up one of the big advantages that we have.

[backbone1106]

how to export my AM shares and sell? and what's the Fredcat's email address?

[Endlessa]

FC has so far over-delivered not only once. They only sell what they have, they don't hype...
If we force him to spend his time communicating things that may change at a later point, or holding our hands on a daily basis, we are forcing him to give up one of the big advantages that we have.

No your watching revisionist tv.  FC has never ever ever delivered the network hashrate AM was suppose to have mining.  FC has never sold an item with a fair price that offered break even value given the difficulty.  Also, most people aren't asking for "daily communication", but would like to know why the fuck they shouldn't sell their share given there has been nothing offered up but something "amazing" is coming and "wait till the next announcement"

P.S. fuck you if your response is "It's more profitable to rip our customers off than to mine with our equipment" (Why mine with something you know will not return more money than you can rape a bunch of "losers" (sarcasm) for?")

[jimmothy]

FC has so far over-delivered not only once. They only sell what they have, they don't hype...
If we force him to spend his time communicating things that may change at a later point, or holding our hands on a daily basis, we are forcing him to give up one of the big advantages that we have.

No your watching revisionist tv.  FC has never ever ever delivered the network hashrate AM was suppose to have mining.  FC has never sold an item with a fair price that offered break even value given the difficulty.  Also, most people aren't asking for "daily communication", but would like to know why the fuck they shouldn't sell their share given there has been nothing offered up but something "amazing" is coming and "wait till the next announcement"

P.S. fuck you if your response is "It's more profitable to rip our customers off than to mine with our equipment" (Why mine with something you know will not return more money than you can rape a bunch of "losers" (sarcasm) for?")

Do you know of any asic that can make a profit? Literally every asic sold as of now and probably in the future will not "make a profit" but people realize this and are ok with it. AM has delivered the hashrate AM was supposed to have.. At one point AM had 20% of the network hashrate but then when the "gold rush" begain with bfl shipping AM sold a bunch of asics that might or might not reach ROI and made a substantial profit to fuel next gen research and development..

You need to understand the costs involved with running an Asic business. FC started with 144nm tech which they got out faster than any other asic manufacturer and that payed off. You say that nothing has been announced but this is completely inaccurate. We know exactly what AM is planning to do which is investing in gen2 chips that will use either 65/55/45nm tech and then gen3 which is 28nm announced for 1st quarter of 2014. If you haven't noticed the Asicminer cube is nearly as efficient as anything on the market right now but that doesn't mean AM can profit from using 144nm tech any further for solomining. They already filled their datacenter and are now waiting for gen2 to simply swap out the old tech with the new.

But please keep reading your source that provides literally no facts and keep spreading misinformation on the forum.

[velacreations]

FC has never ever ever delivered the network hashrate AM was suppose to have mining.  

AM had 30% for a while, 20% for longer than that, and over 10% even longer than that.
What percentage was he "supposed" to have?

[Puppet]

People shouldn't assume it is a slam dunk super duper money maker.

Cooling aside, don't forget the infrastructure side of things. Assuming the plan is at least half baked and nothing happens to Bitcoin, this will be a super "super duper money maker".

The first system is tested with gen1 blades and basically just sits there waiting for something more powerful to come up. When AM gets new hardware, they can simply deploy the new boards where the 5000 gen1 blades are now sitting, the doc states they can handle the power and heat. The factory is probably a stone throw away from the farm. They don't even need to touch a power supply or LAN cable. That's how cloud hardware  should be built IMHO. If truly mobile, they could populate the farm at a factory and move it to the data center without work being done there. Or just park the container near a power feed and plugin an internet connection. This process can be repeated as many times as needed till the end-game.

Not sure on the 40nm or 28nm specs, but if it would be anything like KNC Jupiter (4 boards per 550GH/s unit?) they'd be replacing more than 5000*10.7Gh/s with over 678,500 GH/s within a matter of days or even hours (assuming they have enough Chinese factory workers to stick 5000 boards into backplanes). They don't even need to install a single power supply or LAN cable, it's already there. Who else could do that, and how? As the document said, "its implications go beyond this simple description". I think the question is not if it happens, it is when it happens. For all we know, if the container means anything there could be multiple locations doing the same thing at the same time.

You make it sound as if plugging in power supplies and lan cables is the tricky and expensive part, while producing 28nm chips is the cheap and easy part. You may want to rethink that. To answer your hypothetical question: KnC could do that, their datacenter is right next to their assembly plant, Cointerra claim they will be able to do that.

But even if the datacenter is at the other part of the globe, you are only shaving off a few days, possibly weeks of deployment time, while AM is many months behind the competition.

[Plazma]

hey guys. I'm casual and i have 1 share. can some1 tell me what I need to do to keep my share?