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Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3914315 times)
ensurance982
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July 30, 2014, 07:45:22 PM
 #21801

I believe FC gave the market the proper opportunity to absorb the product before this change in direction. I also believe he made it quite clear that this was a possible outcome. My preference is to see a sustainable business model that reinvests in maintaining a sizeable percentage of the network as equipment sales margins will only diminish unless there is a profound rise in the price of BTC or something profoundly cracks the current ASIC cost/efficiency situation to be highly profitable for a short term. That term being only as long as it takes for the competition to step up or the manufacturer elects to use their own equipment.

I suspect shares may be making their way to steady hands with what appears to be a longer term strategy then some had believed. Holding ground with a percentage of the network in a position of profitability appears to be a favorable option when you are benefitting from working at the most competitive costs. AM has deep enough pockets to achieve this and is already in possession of ASICs to make it happen.

i think you are sorely mistaken here.

Maintaining a tangible network percentage as well as selling individual miners is an enormous undertaking when you consider that every 6-8months your miners become obsolete. The amount of associated cost with designing and manufacturing new boards every 8 months is enormous. So is shipping internationally and having to deal with thousands of customers who need tech support.

The best model is what they tried-- oem sales of chips. It shovels off all the responsibility to procuring pcb boards, design of such, etc. to a 2nd party. This is preferable because they can concentrate on what they do best-- best access to foundries and ability to push chips to the market fastest and quickest. The overhead with this is by far smallest, and the points of failure of delivering a product to your customers is smallest; either your chips work or they don't. No need to design and wait for boards, powersupplies, cables, shipping materials, etc. As long as they have a strong design team down to 28nm, this is far far far preferable.

Yeah but if this fails and the demand isn't strong enough or maybe your chip even underperforms (gen 3), you need to resort to the things you can still do. And self-mining or franchised mining seems to be the best option now. There just hasn't been enough demand for gen 3.

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July 30, 2014, 07:48:30 PM
 #21802

So, no word on the board member meeting?  Any board members feel like chiming in?

I'd love some clarification as to actual hash rate % goals, ETA and 28nm tapeout, number of chips remaining in  stock, DC vs. Datatank mining plan, the community liaison, answers to our previously submitted list of questions etc.

Thanks!
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July 30, 2014, 07:48:57 PM
 #21803

I believe FC gave the market the proper opportunity to absorb the product before this change in direction. I also believe he made it quite clear that this was a possible outcome. My preference is to see a sustainable business model that reinvests in maintaining a sizeable percentage of the network as equipment sales margins will only diminish unless there is a profound rise in the price of BTC or something profoundly cracks the current ASIC cost/efficiency situation to be highly profitable for a short term. That term being only as long as it takes for the competition to step up or the manufacturer elects to use their own equipment.

I suspect shares may be making their way to steady hands with what appears to be a longer term strategy then some had believed. Holding ground with a percentage of the network in a position of profitability appears to be a favorable option when you are benefitting from working at the most competitive costs. AM has deep enough pockets to achieve this and is already in possession of ASICs to make it happen.

i think you are sorely mistaken here.

Maintaining a tangible network percentage as well as selling individual miners is an enormous undertaking when you consider that every 6-8months your miners become obsolete. The amount of associated cost with designing and manufacturing new boards every 8 months is enormous. So is shipping internationally and having to deal with thousands of customers who need tech support.

The best model is what they tried-- oem sales of chips. It shovels off all the responsibility to procuring pcb boards, design of such, etc. to a 2nd party. This is preferable because they can concentrate on what they do best-- best access to foundries and ability to push chips to the market fastest and quickest. The overhead with this is by far smallest, and the points of failure of delivering a product to your customers is smallest; either your chips work or they don't. No need to design and wait for boards, powersupplies, cables, shipping materials, etc. As long as they have a strong design team down to 28nm, this is far far far preferable.

Yeah but if this fails and the demand isn't strong enough or maybe your chip even underperforms (gen 3), you need to resort to the things you can still do. And self-mining or franchised mining seems to be the best option now. There just hasn't been enough demand for gen 3.

i actually disagree.

I think the real problem with friedcat's change in business model has less to do with gen3 underperforming than it does with the fact that pcb board manufacturing is highly centralized and dominated by the chinese/taiwanese.
ensurance982
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July 30, 2014, 07:55:42 PM
 #21804

So, no word on the board member meeting?  Any board members feel like chiming in?

I'd love some clarification as to actual hash rate % goals, ETA and 28nm tapeout, number of chips remaining in  stock, DC vs. Datatank mining plan, the community liaison, answers to our previously submitted list of questions etc.

Thanks!

Maybe the board members are under some NDA or something. Could be that Friedcat told them about what is about to be revealed on August 2nd... He doesn't want them to spoil everyone!

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ensurance982
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July 30, 2014, 08:01:18 PM
 #21805

I believe FC gave the market the proper opportunity to absorb the product before this change in direction. I also believe he made it quite clear that this was a possible outcome. My preference is to see a sustainable business model that reinvests in maintaining a sizeable percentage of the network as equipment sales margins will only diminish unless there is a profound rise in the price of BTC or something profoundly cracks the current ASIC cost/efficiency situation to be highly profitable for a short term. That term being only as long as it takes for the competition to step up or the manufacturer elects to use their own equipment.

I suspect shares may be making their way to steady hands with what appears to be a longer term strategy then some had believed. Holding ground with a percentage of the network in a position of profitability appears to be a favorable option when you are benefitting from working at the most competitive costs. AM has deep enough pockets to achieve this and is already in possession of ASICs to make it happen.

i think you are sorely mistaken here.

Maintaining a tangible network percentage as well as selling individual miners is an enormous undertaking when you consider that every 6-8months your miners become obsolete. The amount of associated cost with designing and manufacturing new boards every 8 months is enormous. So is shipping internationally and having to deal with thousands of customers who need tech support.

The best model is what they tried-- oem sales of chips. It shovels off all the responsibility to procuring pcb boards, design of such, etc. to a 2nd party. This is preferable because they can concentrate on what they do best-- best access to foundries and ability to push chips to the market fastest and quickest. The overhead with this is by far smallest, and the points of failure of delivering a product to your customers is smallest; either your chips work or they don't. No need to design and wait for boards, powersupplies, cables, shipping materials, etc. As long as they have a strong design team down to 28nm, this is far far far preferable.

Yeah but if this fails and the demand isn't strong enough or maybe your chip even underperforms (gen 3), you need to resort to the things you can still do. And self-mining or franchised mining seems to be the best option now. There just hasn't been enough demand for gen 3.

i actually disagree.

I think the real problem with friedcat's change in business model has less to do with gen3 underperforming than it does with the fact that pcb board manufacturing is highly centralized and dominated by the chinese/taiwanese.

He could've sold the chips easily if the mining scene was still the way it used to be in 2013, where hundreds of thousands of Avalon chips were bought and soldered onto makeshift PCBs. The competition got a lot stronger and the gen 3 chips really lost some of their appeal because they consumed about 70% more power than initially planned. That combined with the lower demand, increased competition, 2 months delay, means effectively that he couldn't sell them as well as initially planned

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July 30, 2014, 08:08:03 PM
 #21806

The first course of action was carried out we are now seeing the second; the point of which to branch was reached by volume of sales. Self mining is far from a new idea and the advantage to remain competitive as mining evolves remains with limiting expenses. One should also consider that the equipment, facilities and infrastructure will likely support future generations of ASICs when the need to upgrade arrives. This is far more cost competitive than the individual trying to compete with purchased systems.
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July 30, 2014, 08:54:53 PM
 #21807

Am I the only one who interpret FC's words as "finally we failed in selling most of our chips, and now we have to change our plan to self mine and sell our own mining machine." Do you know how much value has been wasted compared with self mining or selling machines in the first place?

I was thinking the same thing, but if I said it out loud the fanboys would start to complain that I'm a SP-Tech shill. Not self-mining from the start and doing it right now = lost money.

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July 30, 2014, 09:36:43 PM
 #21808

Am I the only one who interpret FC's words as "finally we failed in selling most of our chips, and now we have to change our plan to self mine and sell our own mining machine." Do you know how much value has been wasted compared with self mining or selling machines in the first place?

I was thinking the same thing, but if I said it out loud the fanboys would start to complain that I'm a SP-Tech shill. Not self-mining from the start and doing it right now = lost money.

But it could have worked out. Do you really think friedcat didn't run the numbers himself through and through and considered going self-mining from the very beginning? I guess he had good intentions and reasons for trying to sell the chips.

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July 30, 2014, 10:39:37 PM
 #21809

ASICminer is a long range investment. The salon's main theme is "mining in the age of exahash", which we have not reached yet but will very soon. I like this sort of forward thinking. If FC was running around trying to mine all the coins at present network rates he would be playing a loser's game. Seems like he is already making moves to stay afloat in an exponentially growing network (franchising, R&D on newer better chips, open sourcing, community building amongst miners) Solo mining is very lovely to give ADD shareholders something to fixate on, but long term success requires more focus on innovative approach. It is more or less a given (and known for quite some time already) that the future of mining belongs to giant industrial operations. If FC has plans to move on that market, which I believe he very much has, we are in a great position. Bring on the salon, I hope there are many fluent chinese/english speakers ready to relay all that goes on there. I think we will hear some bold new strategies to take us into the age of exahash as leaders of the game!

yes, I hold shares in ASICminer, and yes I'm cheerleading. Go team!
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July 30, 2014, 11:03:35 PM
 #21810

ASICminer is a long range investment. The salon's main theme is "mining in the age of exahash", which we have not reached yet but will very soon. I like this sort of forward thinking. If FC was running around trying to mine all the coins at present network rates he would be playing a loser's game. Seems like he is already making moves to stay afloat in an exponentially growing network (franchising, R&D on newer better chips, open sourcing, community building amongst miners) Solo mining is very lovely to give ADD shareholders something to fixate on, but long term success requires more focus on innovative approach. It is more or less a given (and known for quite some time already) that the future of mining belongs to giant industrial operations. If FC has plans to move on that market, which I believe he very much has, we are in a great position. Bring on the salon, I hope there are many fluent chinese/english speakers ready to relay all that goes on there. I think we will hear some bold new strategies to take us into the age of exahash as leaders of the game!

yes, I hold shares in ASICminer, and yes I'm cheerleading. Go team!

Nice.

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Swordsoffreedom
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July 30, 2014, 11:15:50 PM
 #21811

Am I the only one who interpret FC's words as "finally we failed in selling most of our chips, and now we have to change our plan to self mine and sell our own mining machine." Do you know how much value has been wasted compared with self mining or selling machines in the first place?

I was thinking the same thing, but if I said it out loud the fanboys would start to complain that I'm a SP-Tech shill. Not self-mining from the start and doing it right now = lost money.

Na it was a calculated gamble and risk that didn't just pay off I wouldn't call that shilling its just that it didn't work out this time
Some money was lost there though.

ASICminer is a long range investment. The salon's main theme is "mining in the age of exahash", which we have not reached yet but will very soon. I like this sort of forward thinking. If FC was running around trying to mine all the coins at present network rates he would be playing a loser's game. Seems like he is already making moves to stay afloat in an exponentially growing network (franchising, R&D on newer better chips, open sourcing, community building amongst miners) Solo mining is very lovely to give ADD shareholders something to fixate on, but long term success requires more focus on innovative approach. It is more or less a given (and known for quite some time already) that the future of mining belongs to giant industrial operations. If FC has plans to move on that market, which I believe he very much has, we are in a great position. Bring on the salon, I hope there are many fluent chinese/english speakers ready to relay all that goes on there. I think we will hear some bold new strategies to take us into the age of exahash as leaders of the game!

yes, I hold shares in ASICminer, and yes I'm cheerleading. Go team!

Go team Go!

.
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Mabsark
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July 30, 2014, 11:27:52 PM
 #21812

I've just created a poll to see how people would prefer AM to mine.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=717839.0
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July 31, 2014, 01:39:02 AM
 #21813

The total Hashrate has arrived to 160,000,000 G. Shocked
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July 31, 2014, 01:43:00 AM
 #21814

The total Hashrate has arrived to 160,000,000 G. Shocked

plug em bitchezz in!
cant wait for that site to work again: http://www.asicminercharts.com/live/
maybe right after the conf? Cheesy
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July 31, 2014, 01:52:33 AM
 #21815

The total Hashrate has arrived to 160,000,000 G. Shocked

plug em in bitchezz!
cant wait for that site to work again: http://www.asicminercharts.com/live/
maybe right after the conf? Cheesy
Ha, Hope so
EternalWingsofGod
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July 31, 2014, 02:21:09 AM
 #21816

The total Hashrate has arrived to 160,000,000 G. Shocked

plug em bitchezz in!
cant wait for that site to work again: http://www.asicminercharts.com/live/
maybe right after the conf? Cheesy

Ask SmiGueL
Created by SmiGueL - Tips and donations: 1SmiGV3fM4BGr6JbtFwXaaLvebpbq4Fvg 

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July 31, 2014, 02:49:18 AM
 #21817

Update
self mining has re-started from middle of July

Care to share the mining address  Roll Eyes
cant wait to see what happens on the 2nd
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July 31, 2014, 06:59:01 AM
 #21818

Let the man work. He has said he is independent and is working exclusively for shareholders to get the best outcome. Business in real life is hard. Misses are part of the journey. I'll be in for the long haul.

Non-technical coin. Use OZC to intro coins to everyday aussies: http://ozziecoin.com
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July 31, 2014, 10:36:42 AM
 #21819

Let the man work. He has said he is independent and is working exclusively for shareholders to get the best outcome. Business in real life is hard. Misses are part of the journey. I'll be in for the long haul.

+1

Recent rise could have eaten a lot of short term upside potential but if AM's turnaround is for real then gen4 coupled with new deployment capabilities could be spectacular.
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July 31, 2014, 11:40:58 AM
 #21820

The total Hashrate has arrived to 160,000,000 G. Shocked

Interestingly AM could still achieve 10% of the total network by putting the 20 PH/s to work they thought were possible even in China alone!

3) What capacity of gen 3 hardware is supposed to be used for franchised mining?
re 3) Depending on the capacity of our franchisees. We personally think 20P could be possible even inside China.

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