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Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3914313 times)
xhomerx10
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August 30, 2014, 09:55:31 PM
 #22521

Well, I gotta say: Is it really Havelock's fault that "none of the stocks trade above IPO price"? It's the stocks that fail, not Havelock per se. I assume it's more of a general problem of the Bitcoin securities/stock market and people coming up with IPOs that don't have a sound business model business model

 You shouldn't have said that.  It shows a lack of reading comprehension skills.
Not one person in this thread has blamed Havelock. 
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August 30, 2014, 10:29:12 PM
 #22522

I didn't quite say it was Havelock's fault--just that it's stupid to try making money there.
There's no evidence of such a thing ever having been done, making the possibility of it *ever* happening speculative at best.*

But now that you bring the responsibility thing up, I'll say it:  Yes, it is partially Havelock's fault.

Havelock's fault for pretending to screen their offerings.
Havelock's fault for making assurances like "we hold all the money in escrow until it's needs by the issuer" (presumably doling it out like a parent does his child's allowance), and then failing to act on their promise (see Mintspare thread).
Havelock's fault for their own grossly overvalued IPO [HIF], which flopped just like all the rest of the crap listed there.

There's plenty more, but TL;DR:  I didn't claim it's Havelock's fault, but, now that you mention it, it kinda is.

*I'm talking about investing as opposed to trading.  It's possible to make money trading, and the fact that the charts have some upswings interrupting their negative slope is proof enough that some people, at some point, have bought lower than they sold (profited).
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August 31, 2014, 12:13:08 AM
 #22523

It is a very rare bird that can fly as high as bitcoin itself. Do you really expect any business model to provide the kind of value that the original p2p money will? Fo realz. As an ipo "investor" in AM I'm still really happy and have kept a large position in cold storage (and living 100% off of bitcoin for over a year), despite quite a few other losses learning experiences.

How are you doing notlambchop? How is your time investment in bitcointalk tsunami warnings going for you?


To newbs...if you are wondering... keep and hold bitcoins primarily if you want real returns...that is all. Thanks

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August 31, 2014, 01:08:58 AM
 #22524


How are you doing notlambchop? How is your time investment in bitcointalk tsunami warnings going for you?


 Grin
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August 31, 2014, 09:52:42 AM
 #22525


How are you doing notlambchop? How is your time investment in bitcointalk tsunami warnings going for you?


 Grin

I don't want to spoil anyone by asking for an explanation, but I don't get the reference, will someone please indulge me and explain the background, it sounds adventurous and I'd like to know more Smiley

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August 31, 2014, 12:32:22 PM
 #22526

From the tube sales thread:

Price adjusted to 7.9 btc per set.

Round 1 purchasers get a coupon of 0.05 btc per device. (0.5 btc per set, 0.0125 btc per hashing unit)

Round 2 purchasers bought at the price before price adjustment get refunds of the price difference, preferrably to the payment source address.

All coupons and refunds happen only between our direct purchasers and us.

Very generous to the customers. But I am afraid this means less income for the shareholders.

Fostering customer relations though. Which other company gives refunds they don't have to give?!
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August 31, 2014, 01:02:14 PM
 #22527

From the tube sales thread:

Price adjusted to 7.9 btc per set.

Round 1 purchasers get a coupon of 0.05 btc per device. (0.5 btc per set, 0.0125 btc per hashing unit)

Round 2 purchasers bought at the price before price adjustment get refunds of the price difference, preferrably to the payment source address.

All coupons and refunds happen only between our direct purchasers and us.

Very generous to the customers. But I am afraid this means less income for the shareholders.

Fostering customer relations though. Which other company gives refunds they don't have to give?!

It shows again how honest ASICMiner is! They did the same thing with the first generation, when they adjusted the price for the USB Block Erupter miners quite a few times over summer. And people who purchased at the old prices got the new miners for 0.1 BTC each (with a maximum quantity of the previously bought miners)

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NotLambchop
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August 31, 2014, 01:03:57 PM
 #22528

It is a very rare bird that can fly as high as bitcoin itself. Do you really expect any business model to provide the kind of value that the original p2p money will? Fo realz.

Remedial Economics
When [normal] people invest dollars, Bitcoin, or shekels (from here on: Unit_of_account), they do it to get more Unit_of_account, not less.
When you invest 10 Unit_of_account and lose 9, you have [dramatic pause] lost 9 Unit_of_account, and are left with only 1.  The colloquialism for that is "losing money," regardless of the changing value of Unit_of_account.

If a [normal] person expects the value of his particular Unit_of_account to go up faster than the value of his "investment," he [another forced dramatic pause] DOES NOT INVEST.  Because such an investment would lose him money, and that's called, in the highly specialized and technical jargon of economics, "FUCKIN' STUPID."

Having dealt with you previously, I don't really expect you to grasp the underlying logic, so simply do this: If you think your "very rare bird" is going to appreciate faster than the shit business you plan to "invest in," DO NOT INVEST.  Because that's what not_stupid_people do.
Imitate not_stupid_people--they're smarter than you.

Quote
...
How are you doing notlambchop? How is your time investment in bitcointalk tsunami warnings going for you?

You might as well ask me how my investment in vacuuming_my_house, brushing_my_teeth, and wiping_my_sphincter_after_getting_off_the_toilet is going for me.  Tedious, doesn't win me ribbons, but shit gotta be done.
While it make me no money directly, it keeps my Bitcoin from turning to shit.
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August 31, 2014, 01:07:03 PM
 #22529

From the tube sales thread:

Price adjusted to 7.9 btc per set.

Round 1 purchasers get a coupon of 0.05 btc per device. (0.5 btc per set, 0.0125 btc per hashing unit)

Round 2 purchasers bought at the price before price adjustment get refunds of the price difference, preferrably to the payment source address.

All coupons and refunds happen only between our direct purchasers and us.

Very generous to the customers. But I am afraid this means less income for the shareholders.

Fostering customer relations though. Which other company gives refunds they don't have to give?!

 The reason they are giving refunds is because there was a delay in the shipment of the first batch due to a technical error and the promised shipping dates were missed.  FC is showing integrity and gaining trust and respect in the process.  Would you prefer, he take the path of BFL, KNC and others.  He needed to give refunds.  He did the right thing.
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August 31, 2014, 01:13:55 PM
 #22530

...
I don't want to spoil anyone by asking for an explanation, but I don't get the reference, will someone please indulge me and explain the background, it sounds adventurous and I'd like to know more Smiley

I have no idea either, but I suspect it's something along the lines of "he's Mircea Popescu; Eduardo deCastro; FED; [insert bogeyman here]."
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August 31, 2014, 01:22:42 PM
 #22531

From the tube sales thread:

Price adjusted to 7.9 btc per set.

Round 1 purchasers get a coupon of 0.05 btc per device. (0.5 btc per set, 0.0125 btc per hashing unit)

Round 2 purchasers bought at the price before price adjustment get refunds of the price difference, preferrably to the payment source address.

All coupons and refunds happen only between our direct purchasers and us.

Very generous to the customers. But I am afraid this means less income for the shareholders.

Fostering customer relations though. Which other company gives refunds they don't have to give?!

 The reason they are giving refunds is because there was a delay in the shipment of the first batch due to a technical error and the promised shipping dates were missed.  FC is showing integrity and gaining trust and respect in the process.  Would you prefer, he take the path of BFL, KNC and others.  He needed to give refunds.  He did the right thing.


Yes, agreed absolutely. I did not intend to criticise that move at all.

But the reason you are stating is not correct. Just a few shipments of round 1 were delayed.
And if your reasoning was correct, there would not be any refund for round 2 customers. Wink
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August 31, 2014, 01:56:44 PM
Last edit: August 31, 2014, 02:56:55 PM by silverfuture
 #22532

It is a very rare bird that can fly as high as bitcoin itself. Do you really expect any business model to provide the kind of value that the original p2p money will? Fo realz.

Remedial Economics
When [normal] people invest dollars, Bitcoin, or shekels (from here on: Unit_of_account), they do it to get more Unit_of_account, not less.
When you invest 10 Unit_of_account and lose 9, you have [dramatic pause] lost 9 Unit_of_account, and are left with only 1.  The colloquialism for that is "losing money," regardless of the changing value of Unit_of_account.

If a [normal] person expects the value of his particular Unit_of_account to go up faster than the value of his "investment," he [another forced dramatic pause] DOES NOT INVEST.  Because such an investment would lose him money, and that's called, in the highly specialized and technical jargon of economics, "FUCKIN' STUPID."

Having dealt with you previously, I don't really expect you to grasp the underlying logic, so simply do this: If you think your "very rare bird" is going to appreciate faster than the shit business you plan to "invest in," DO NOT INVEST.  Because that's what not_stupid_people do.
Imitate not_stupid_people--they're smarter than you.

Quote
...
How are you doing notlambchop? How is your time investment in bitcointalk tsunami warnings going for you?

You might as well ask me how my investment in vacuuming_my_house, brushing_my_teeth, and wiping_my_sphincter_after_getting_off_the_toilet is going for me.  Tedious, doesn't win me ribbons, but shit gotta be done.
While it make me no money directly, it keeps my Bitcoin from turning to shit.

You seem really upset.  I agree with you on many levels, but am a little concerned for your health and well being.  Why spend so much time trying to sound the alarm in almost every security thread going?  You can't prevent people from making poor decisions with their coins. Wiping your ass is a necessity for life but your investment in time here seems like a poor one based more in some sort of personality dysfunction of enjoying talking down to others and insulting them for thier poor decisions. As if the pain of loss already wasn't enough to jar them out of their slumber.

 If you are honestly doing this to help newbs then that is commendable but I am left wondering.  AM is the last company to be critical of in this space as they have been nothing but the best investment with the most ethical and well thought out approach in the entire community so far.  Yes, the share price came down very heavily from it's peak, but that peak was achieved for good reasons (and community wide over-exuberance).  Instead of chiming in to every thread with the shrill voice of a tsunami warning, why not create a business model with your obviously sharp mind that will perform well in this environment? Who knows, I might invest myself.

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August 31, 2014, 02:15:23 PM
 #22533

please stop feeding that lambtrollchop.
silverfuture
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August 31, 2014, 02:36:54 PM
 #22534

please stop feeding that lambtrollchop.

We have to realize that there is (most often) a man or woman on the other end of these communications with dreams, hopes, aspirations, dysfunctions, and fears. Calling them trolls is sometimes accurate but often misses the point and neglects the opportunity to heal schisms and build community. I know it sounds naive, but bitcoin is about more than computers and technical details and economic prowess. It is ultimately about people.  The ones who have run scams may think they are getting away with it, but they have to deal with their dysfunction (and affirmations of scarcity) every day they look in the mirror. I don't regret my bitcoin experiences because I approach it with a pure heart and a clean conscience. I like who I see in the mirror despite being taken advantage of in some cases and resolve to support people who are really doing something cool and avoid the corrupted ones.  I ultimately, like NotLambChop, want to see bitcoin succeed in providing a better, more prosperous, and less corrupt world for myself and everyone else. There is much work to be done and none of us is an island.

Investors need to understand that most investments in the bitcoin space are a conversion to fiat at whatever the concurrent fiat/btc price may be and act accordingly to manage expectations. If you are long btc, then hold it like you mean it.


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August 31, 2014, 02:38:34 PM
 #22535

please stop feeding that lambtrollchop.

We have to realize that there is (most often) a man or woman on the other end of these communications with dreams, hopes, aspirations, dysfunctions, and fears. Calling them trolls is sometimes accurate but often misses the point and neglects the opportunity to heal schisms and build community. I know it sounds naive, but bitcoin is about more than computers and technical details and economic prowess. It is ultimately about people.  The ones who have run scams may think they are getting away with it, but they have to deal with their dysfunction (and affirmations of scarcity) every day they look in the mirror. I don't regret my bitcoin experiences because I approach it with a pure heart and a clean conscience. I like who I see in the mirror despite being taken advantage of in some cases and resolve to support people who are really doing something cool and avoid the corrupted ones.  I ultimately, like NotLambChop, want to see bitcoin succeed in providing a better, more prosperous, and less corrupt world for myself and everyone else. There is much work to be done and none of us is an island.

Investors need to understand that most investments in the bitcoin space are a conversion to fiat at whatever the concurrent fiat/btc price may be and act accordingly to manage expectations. If you are long btc, then hold it like you mean it.



Everything is about people! But sadly people also are greedy and try to scam people whenever they get the chance to - well, at least some of them do! Spending time on trying to reason with people is often time wasted, unfortunately. But I try doing that nonetheless, as well Smiley

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August 31, 2014, 03:03:21 PM
 #22536


Everything is about people! But sadly people also are greedy and try to scam people whenever they get the chance to - well, at least some of them do! Spending time on trying to reason with people is often time wasted, unfortunately. But I try doing that nonetheless, as well Smiley

Good for you. No sense spending too much time trying to reason with others when there is so much good to contribute to in our daily lives. That reminds me, I have a to do list giving me the 'ol stinkeye from across the table.  Cheesy

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August 31, 2014, 03:07:22 PM
 #22537

From the tube sales thread:

Price adjusted to 7.9 btc per set.

Round 1 purchasers get a coupon of 0.05 btc per device. (0.5 btc per set, 0.0125 btc per hashing unit)

Round 2 purchasers bought at the price before price adjustment get refunds of the price difference, preferrably to the payment source address.

All coupons and refunds happen only between our direct purchasers and us.

Very generous to the customers. But I am afraid this means less income for the shareholders.

Fostering customer relations though. Which other company gives refunds they don't have to give?!

 The reason they are giving refunds is because there was a delay in the shipment of the first batch due to a technical error and the promised shipping dates were missed.  FC is showing integrity and gaining trust and respect in the process.  Would you prefer, he take the path of BFL, KNC and others.  He needed to give refunds.  He did the right thing.


Yes, agreed absolutely. I did not intend to criticise that move at all.

But the reason you are stating is not correct. Just a few shipments of round 1 were delayed.
And if your reasoning was correct, there would not be any refund for round 2 customers. Wink

 Actually, the round two price was adjusted downward after the round began.  The refunds for round 2 customers only apply to those who purchased before the price adjustment.  So there are two different reasons and two different values for the refunds.
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August 31, 2014, 03:11:42 PM
 #22538

You seem really upset.  I agree with you on many levels, but am a little concerned for your health and well being.  Why spend so much time trying to sound the alarm in almost every security thread going?  You can't prevent people from making poor decisions with their coins. Wiping your ass is a necessity for life but your investment in time here seems like a poor one based more in some sort of personality dysfunction of enjoying talking down to others and insulting them for thier poor decisions. As if the pain of loss already wasn't enough to jar them out of their slumber.

 If you are honestly doing this to help newbs then that is commendable but I am left wondering.  AM is the last company to be critical of in this space as they have been nothing but the best investment with the most ethical and well thought out approach in the entire community so far.  Yes, the share price came down very heavily from it's peak, but that peak was achieved for good reasons (and community wide over-exuberance).  Instead of chiming in to every thread with the shrill voice of a tsunami warning, why not create a business model with your obviously sharp mind that will perform well in this environment? Who knows, I might invest myself.

I find it hilarious that he mocks people for investing in bitcoin securities because the share price has dropped. By the very own logic he's using, he's every bit as much of a failure as those he mocks because the USD/BTC price is less than half of its all time high.

He's just trolling.
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August 31, 2014, 03:42:59 PM
 #22539

...
You seem really upset.  I agree with you on many levels, but am a little concerned for your health and well being.  Why spend so much time trying to sound the alarm in almost every security thread going?  You can't prevent people from making poor decisions with their coins. Wiping your ass is a necessity for life but your investment in time here seems like a poor one based more in some sort of personality dysfunction of enjoying talking down to others and insulting them for thier poor decisions. As if the pain of loss already wasn't enough to jar them out of their slumber.

 If you are honestly doing this to help newbs then that is commendable but I am left wondering.  AM is the last company to be critical of in this space as they have been nothing but the best investment with the most ethical and well thought out approach in the entire community so far.  Yes, the share price came down very heavily from it's peak, but that peak was achieved for good reasons (and community wide over-exuberance).  Instead of chiming in to every thread with the shill voice of a tsunami warning, why not create a business model with your obviously sharp mind that will perform well in this environment? Who knows, I might invest myself.

Not sure if upset.  A bit disheartened that Bitcoin has attracted so much scam, but it is what it is--an unfortunate fact that must be dealt with.  Let me clear up some misunderstandings.

I'm not the "sh[r]ill voice of a tsunami warning."  I'm only trying to drive home something which should be as obvious as "if you hit your thumb with a five-pound sledge, you're gonna have a bad time."  Yeah, it is a bit unsettling (for me) to watch people hammering their thumbs, expecting different results "because Bitcoin."  But it's not even a knee-jerk response--reflexively stopping a fellow-human from hurting itself--that motivates me.

I'm not even a nice guy.  I'm not concerned about teh n00bs, but rather how their goofy self-mutilation affects Bitcoin as a whole, and how this public perception affects the value of my investment.  I don't even particularly care if stupid n00bs lose money, as long as they do it discretely, quietly, not center-stage under the spotlight.

I'm not a moralfag, I'm looking out for myself.  Just like a guy quietly moving serious weight wouldn't let a punkass crack dealer set up on his stoop to push bunk.  Hint: it's not because he's a nice guy worried about crackheads not getting their due bang for the buck.

Remember NeoBee?  Not to rub it in, but ...fuckit, I will.
This is how Joe Sixpack and aspiring scammers see us:  "Idiots who'll send pseudonymous money to any Anon, to invest in absurd, unworkable schemes guaranteed to lose money even if Anon happened by chance to be honest."  Like that.

Remember Active Mining?  Remember MintSpare?  Remember HASH (most recent)?
Do this:  Pull up any one of my "shrill" warnings, find one that's been shown wrong, and rub it in my face.

And I have nothing against Friedcat.  He seems to be a bright, techy guy.  But what does he have to do with the shares bought and sold on Havelock now?  They're completely out of his hands, have been since the end of the IPO.

TL;DR: Enlightened self-interest.
If some noobs get schooled in the process?  Gravy!
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August 31, 2014, 03:51:02 PM
 #22540

...
You seem really upset.  I agree with you on many levels, but am a little concerned for your health and well being.  Why spend so much time trying to sound the alarm in almost every security thread going?  You can't prevent people from making poor decisions with their coins. Wiping your ass is a necessity for life but your investment in time here seems like a poor one based more in some sort of personality dysfunction of enjoying talking down to others and insulting them for thier poor decisions. As if the pain of loss already wasn't enough to jar them out of their slumber.

 If you are honestly doing this to help newbs then that is commendable but I am left wondering.  AM is the last company to be critical of in this space as they have been nothing but the best investment with the most ethical and well thought out approach in the entire community so far.  Yes, the share price came down very heavily from it's peak, but that peak was achieved for good reasons (and community wide over-exuberance).  Instead of chiming in to every thread with the shill voice of a tsunami warning, why not create a business model with your obviously sharp mind that will perform well in this environment? Who knows, I might invest myself.

Not sure if upset.  A bit disheartened that Bitcoin has attracted so much scam, but it is what it is--an unfortunate fact that must be dealt with.  Let me clear up some misunderstandings.

I'm not the "sh[r]ill voice of a tsunami warning."  I'm only trying to drive home something which should be as obvious as "if you hit your thumb with a five-pound sledge, you're gonna have a bad time."  Yeah, it is a bit unsettling to watch people hammering their thumbs, expecting different results "because Bitcoin."  That thumb-pounding doesn't speak well of us Bitcoiners, it's not the image I'd like to project.

I'm not even a nice guy.  I'm not concerned about teh n00bs, but rather how their goofy self-mutilation affects Bitcoin as a whole, and how this public perception affects the value of my investment.  I don't even particularly care if stupid n00bs lose money, as long as they do it discretely, quietly, not center-stage under the spotlight.

I'm not a moralfag, I'm looking out for myself.  Just like a guy quietly moving serious weight wouldn't let a punkass crack dealer set up on his stoop to push bunk.  Hint: it's not because he's a nice guy worried about crackheads not getting their due bang for the buck.

Remember NeoBee?  Not to rub it in, but ...fuckit, I will.
This is how Joe Sixpack and aspiring scammers see us:  "Idiots who'll send pseudonymous money to any Anon, to invest in absurd, unworkable schemes guaranteed to lose money even if Anon happened by chance to be honest and didn't take off."  Like that.

Remember Active Mining?  Remember MintSpare?  Remember HASH (most recent)?
Do this:  Pull up any one of my "shrill" warnings, find one that's been shown wrong, and rub it in my face.

And I have nothing against Friedcat.  He seems to be a bright, techy guy.  But what does he have to do with the shares bought and sold on Havelock now?  They're completely out of his hands, have been since the end of the IPO.

TL;DR: Enlightened self-interest.
If some noobs get schooled in the process?  Gravy!

At this point, its nearly obvious that you're Mircea Popescu.  You realize that the reason nobody wants to trade on MPex is because of the 5-10-30-whatever-it-is-this-month BTC buy-in, right?  Sorry friedcat didn't want to list ASICMINER on MPex, that sucks for you as the exchange operator, I think we can all empathize with that.  But dude, if you're going to try and run a sock account, try to at least adjust your writing style a little bit.  You're literally the only person in this community that speaks like a 17th century baron; it's not difficult to guess your identity.

TL;DR: http://trilema.com/
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