[ANN] AMP - The Currency That Powers Your Attention On Synereo

[Macno]

If we were to go to a VC, we would get a lot more.

Yes, but not for AMPs. For shares in the company. Or am I wrong on that?

For shares, yes. These shares would then represent the value of the AMPs the company has. The difference would be that they would have control over the decision making processes.

So is your business/investment case basically that you hope that AMPs will be valuable because the company itself is not desigend to make profits? (I realize the question might sound snarky, but it is not meant to be. I would be a fair choice of yours imho. I just want to evaluate the investment case for myself and understand your thinking).

[1715187521]

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[1715187521]

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[1715187521]

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[hector3115]

As someone who has already purchased Amps, I would be OK with a change in the structure of the sale.  If they feel it is best for funding to destroy the unsold amps or distribute more amps per usd, I would of course be fine with both of those because they would be beneficial my stake as well.

Whatever it takes, let get this thing up and running and change the world.

Whatever can be decentralized, will be eventually

[Elokane]

If we were to go to a VC, we would get a lot more.

Yes, but not for AMPs. For shares in the company. Or am I wrong on that?

For shares, yes. These shares would then represent the value of the AMPs the company has. The difference would be that they would have control over the decision making processes.

So is your business/investment case basically that you hope that AMPs will be valuable because the company itself is not desigend to make profits? (I realize the question might sound snarky, but it is not meant to be. I would be a fair choice of yours imho. I just want to evaluate the investment case for myself and understand your thinking).

Indeed.
It's more than a hope. AMPs will be more effective the more the network grows. We'll publish a post examining this later today.

Edit: here -
http://blog.synereo.com/2015/03/27/how-amps-work/

[Elokane]

I thought I read that you simply do another sale at a later time but they are not destroyed? Did you change that?

I Read it again.. oddly I don't remember the part of them being destroyed I read that another future sale would take place until they are all sold or something like that... hmm

sidhujag is right. I remember the same thing. This is a very important issue ... and they changed this   - silently  - and must have edited their former response to dzarmush in the thread

I guess the initial sales are bad and they feel the market pressure.

I just edited it, yes, in anticipation of an announcement we'll make about this shortly. I also messaged everyone who asked in the thread privately.
Sorry about the confusion - we'll make it official soon.

what about people who bought already under the previous rule? changing IPO rules mid stream ... dangerous

In the worst case scenario, this change puts them in the exact same position they were in before. In the best case scenario, their holdings will represent a higher stake in the total amount of existing AMPs.

How will the synereo network prevent people from sucking all the AMP from sponsored content without reading it ( ie with a script or bot ) ?

1) You can't know what content is sponsored before going over it.
2) If you go over all content available, your attention won't be worth investing AMPs to reach -- you attend everything anyway.
These notions are explored in depth in our whitepaper and in the network dynamics presentations:

Slides: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/12wZfRyF9XBMrc1ripXGfyNXCnO_MD7f2-Gc8AIa-v8o/pub?start=false&loop=false&slide=id.g4ecec4c43_30
Whitepaper, relevance and importance of the attention economy ("Social agency and the attention economy" section): http://www.synereo.com/whitepapers/synereo.pdf#subsection.1.2.1
Whitepaper, formulation of our model: http://www.synereo.com/whitepapers/synereo.pdf#subsection.2.2.1

[YNWA2806]

Went briefly  through the WP as it was too sophisticated for my understanding....

Still didn't understand how the decentralization is kept while one entity holds and control the infrastructure....same problem as with VDO

Please elaborate on this

Cheers

[yuvadm]

Went briefly  through the WP as it was too sophisticated for my understanding....

The whitepaper only formalizes all our ideas. Did you take a look at the Learn More page? http://synereo.com/learn-more/ It's a good introduction to most of our core ideas, and also points to relevant blog posts, which are easy to digest. I'd be happy to answer any further specific questions you may have.

Still didn't understand how the decentralization is kept while one entity holds and control the infrastructure....same problem as with VDO

Synereo doesn't control the infrastructure any more than the bitcoin devs control the bitcoin infrastructure. We propose a decentralized system with open protocols where everyone has full control and anyone can participate - development processes included. Is there any specific centralized aspect you see in our plans?

[SlyWax]

Can I reply to a post in Synereo without Amplifiying it ?
ie : I don't like the post, I say it with a comment, but don't want it to grow stronger with my interaction.

[SlyWax]

How do you control all the interactions between one person and the content ?
If you do it by the network, then it will be a privacy nightmare, all your interactions with the content could be monitored !

If not monitored, you can't enforce it's trustfulness and you are susceptible to Sybil attack, or fake behavior.

Do you maintain a double charge counter, one that can't be amplified by money and one that can ?
So that people who don't want to be exposed to money bias, can chose so.

[Macno]

I sure hope you succeed...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-29/big-brother-here-facebook-reveals-its-master-plan-control-all-news-flow

[Elokane]

Can I reply to a post in Synereo without Amplifiying it ?
ie : I don't like the post, I say it with a comment, but don't want it to grow stronger with my interaction.

Excellent question! Our attention model is designed such that if you dislike something, you have to make a choice whether to simply leave it be and not contribute to that message's proliferation or actively engage and discuss your dislike about it, also drawing more attention to it. It is therefore encouraged to let things go unless you think commenting can improve on the situation somehow.

[Elokane]

How do you control all the interactions between one person and the content ?
If you do it by the network, then it will be a privacy nightmare, all your interactions with the content could be monitored !

If not monitored, you can't enforce it's trustfulness and you are susceptible to Sybil attack, or fake behavior.

That's where the DendroNET comes in, allowing a local consensus to be created. There's no one truth source (a centralized entity), but the part of the network around you can "vouch" for claims made in it.

Do you maintain a double charge counter, one that can't be amplified by money and one that can ?
So that people who don't want to be exposed to money bias, can chose so.

The portion of the charge that will be added due to AMPs being invested in a post will be discounted from that post if you don't wish to see promoted content. It'll then be placed in a lower position in your stream's queue (or not appear there at all).

[TrackCoin]

On This AMP wall  shown what's power have in the currency....

[SlyWax]

Can I reply to a post in Synereo without Amplifiying it ?
ie : I don't like the post, I say it with a comment, but don't want it to grow stronger with my interaction.

Excellent question! Our attention model is designed such that if you dislike something, you have to make a choice whether to simply leave it be and not contribute to that message's proliferation or actively engage and discuss your dislike about it, also drawing more attention to it. It is therefore encouraged to let things go unless you think commenting can improve on the situation somehow.

So the more polemic content will get promoted.
People will make harassing or shocking content on purpose.
And it will be  passed to your friend even tho you are trying to combat it...
There should be a way to post a non amplifiying comment !
How could you report or debunk a hoax or fake without propagating it !

[SlyWax]

How do you control all the interactions between one person and the content ?
If you do it by the network, then it will be a privacy nightmare, all your interactions with the content could be monitored !

If not monitored, you can't enforce it's trustfulness and you are susceptible to Sybil attack, or fake behavior.

That's where the DendroNET comes in, allowing a local consensus to be created. There's no one truth source (a centralized entity), but the part of the network around you can "vouch" for claims made in it.

Thanks for your answers, I'll continue to shoot

If there is no global consensus, how do you validate the distribution of AMPs ?

The fact that I read a post is made public or not ?

[dannygroove]

"AMPs will be received based on the USD value of the amount contributed as provided by CoinDesk."

So if I send BTC now, will it be automatically fixed to the actual BTC/USD price to date? Or at the end of the crowdsale?

Example: I send 4 BTC now (Coindesk's price at the time of post: 247,04 USD) = 988,16 USD = 152176,64 AMP (Is that amount fixed by the system automatically? or is it subject to change due to BTC's price volatility?)

Just a suggestion: You should fix AMP's value in BTC not in USD, say 154 AMP are worth 0.004 BTC instead of fixing it in USD.

[boomboom]

"AMPs will be received based on the USD value of the amount contributed as provided by CoinDesk."

So if I send BTC now, will it be automatically fixed to the actual BTC/USD price to date? Or at the end of the crowdsale?

Example: I send 4 BTC now (Coindesk's price at the time of post: 247,04 USD) = 988,16 USD = 152176,64 AMP (Is that amount fixed by the system automatically? or is it subject to change due to BTC's price volatility?)

Just a suggestion: You should fix AMP's value in BTC not in USD, say 154 AMP are worth 0.004 BTC instead of fixing it in USD.

agreed, investors are being forced to speculate on btc:usd price. many investors are not day traders.

[Elokane]

Can I reply to a post in Synereo without Amplifiying it ?
ie : I don't like the post, I say it with a comment, but don't want it to grow stronger with my interaction.

Excellent question! Our attention model is designed such that if you dislike something, you have to make a choice whether to simply leave it be and not contribute to that message's proliferation or actively engage and discuss your dislike about it, also drawing more attention to it. It is therefore encouraged to let things go unless you think commenting can improve on the situation somehow.

So the more polemic content will get promoted.
People will make harassing or shocking content on purpose.
And it will be  passed to your friend even tho you are trying to combat it...
There should be a way to post a non amplifiying comment !
How could you report or debunk a hoax or fake without propagating it !

There will be reporting mechanisms that operate outside of the logic of the attention model so that harmful content could be dealt with.
There are people on social networks who already post shocking content - or any other content - just so that they can get attention. You don't have to be connected to them.

We're also considering implementing a mechanism that allows people to mark something as fake. If there's a consensus in your local community that something is fake, it'll be marked as so. You could also then filter it out completely if you wish.

How do you control all the interactions between one person and the content ?
If you do it by the network, then it will be a privacy nightmare, all your interactions with the content could be monitored !

If not monitored, you can't enforce it's trustfulness and you are susceptible to Sybil attack, or fake behavior.

That's where the DendroNET comes in, allowing a local consensus to be created. There's no one truth source (a centralized entity), but the part of the network around you can "vouch" for claims made in it.

Thanks for your answers, I'll continue to shoot

If there is no global consensus, how do you validate the distribution of AMPs ?

The fact that I read a post is made public or not ?

The only global consensus with have is for AMPs, which are a conserved quantity. That's what we use the blockchain and the Omnilayer for.
And no, it will not be made public. Generally, there are very few things that people on the network have to know about you if you interact with them. You have a lot of control over who gets to see what.

[Elokane]

"AMPs will be received based on the USD value of the amount contributed as provided by CoinDesk."

So if I send BTC now, will it be automatically fixed to the actual BTC/USD price to date? Or at the end of the crowdsale?

Example: I send 4 BTC now (Coindesk's price at the time of post: 247,04 USD) = 988,16 USD = 152176,64 AMP (Is that amount fixed by the system automatically? or is it subject to change due to BTC's price volatility?)

Just a suggestion: You should fix AMP's value in BTC not in USD, say 154 AMP are worth 0.004 BTC instead of fixing it in USD.

agreed, investors are being forced to speculate on btc:usd price. many investors are not day traders.

It'll be fixed to the price now, when you make the transaction.

If you're not day traders, what's keeping you from participating in the crowdsale now?
Some people are sending us other currencies as well and I assure you they don't try to wait until the USD/xxx rate is more in their favor.
Nothing guarantees the price of BTC going up and you stand to lose from waiting just as much.

We can't rely on BTC only for payment, unfortunately - most of the services we'll pay for will require USD. We are doing this to avoid the situation that has plagued other projects like MaidSafe and Ethereum who have suffered a lot from the decrease in BTC price. If we are to do this right, we have to know exactly the resources at our disposal and plan accordingly.

[SlyWax]

How do you control all the interactions between one person and the content ?
If you do it by the network, then it will be a privacy nightmare, all your interactions with the content could be monitored !

If not monitored, you can't enforce it's trustfulness and you are susceptible to Sybil attack, or fake behavior.

That's where the DendroNET comes in, allowing a local consensus to be created. There's no one truth source (a centralized entity), but the part of the network around you can "vouch" for claims made in it.

Thanks for your answers, I'll continue to shoot

If there is no global consensus, how do you validate the distribution of AMPs ?

The fact that I read a post is made public or not ?

The only global consensus with have is for AMPs, which are a conserved quantity. That's what we use the blockchain and the Omnilayer for.
And no, it will not be made public. Generally, there are very few things that people on the network have to know about you if you interact with them. You have a lot of control over who gets to see what.

That doesn't explain how the network decide who get the Amp for reading content !?

[Elokane]

How do you control all the interactions between one person and the content ?
If you do it by the network, then it will be a privacy nightmare, all your interactions with the content could be monitored !

If not monitored, you can't enforce it's trustfulness and you are susceptible to Sybil attack, or fake behavior.

That's where the DendroNET comes in, allowing a local consensus to be created. There's no one truth source (a centralized entity), but the part of the network around you can "vouch" for claims made in it.

Thanks for your answers, I'll continue to shoot

If there is no global consensus, how do you validate the distribution of AMPs ?

The fact that I read a post is made public or not ?

The only global consensus with have is for AMPs, which are a conserved quantity. That's what we use the blockchain and the Omnilayer for.
And no, it will not be made public. Generally, there are very few things that people on the network have to know about you if you interact with them. You have a lot of control over who gets to see what.

That doesn't explain how the network decide who get the Amp for reading content !?

Your node decides based on the view of the network available to it.