Bitcoin Forum

We are pleased to announce the release of the new IVFO (Initial Virtual Fund Offering):

(HIF) HavelockInvestments.com Fund

HavelockInvestments.com offers a software platform through its website which allows Companies to apply for Venture Capital Funds and be listed through our Bitcoin denominated Fund. Our revenue is derived from Listing Fees, Maintenance Fees and Exchange Fees.
 
This Fund is offered as a way for our loyal users to participate in any profits derived from the operations of the HavelockInvestments.com website.

HavelockInvestments.com will offer a total of 20,000,000 units.

15,000,000 (75%) will be restricted units held privately by the owners of the Fund

5,000,000 (25%) will be floated via the exchange

This offer will represent Twenty Percent (20%) in virtual units of the HavelockInvestments.com which is comprised in total of 100,000,000 units of the Fund. These units will never be diluted.

These units will be offered exclusively through the HavelockInvestments.com Website

The Units of the HavelockInvestments.com Fund will be released over 4 Blocks.

Each Block released will offer a total of:

One Million Two Hundred and Fifty Thousand (1,250,000) Units each.

The schedule of the Blocks will be as follows:
November 20th, 2013 12 PM 1st Block 1,250,000 Units Offered at a 50% Discount    ฿0.0005 Per Unit = 625 BTC **SOLD OUT**
November 22nd, 2013       2nd Block 1,250,000 Units Offered at a 33% Discount         ฿0.00066 Per Unit = 825 BTC ** Timed Out**
*TBD 3rd Block 1,250,000 Units Offered at a 25% Discount                                        ฿0.00075 Per Unit =  937.5 BTC
*TBD 4th Block 1,250,000 Units Offered at a face value                                            ฿0.001 Per Unit   = 1250 BTC

The above Blocks will be released based on market conditions.
Open Market Orders will begin November 27th, 2013 12 PM EST

Updates on when the Blocks will be released will be made exclusively through the HavelockInvestments.com website

Please review our prospectus before purchasing any of the Fund's Units at https://www.havelockinvestments.com/reports.php

For more info please visit: https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=HIF
Or contact us at Contact@HavelockInvestments.com

Are new listings being accepted at Havelock?  Seems like there was a lot of potential listings to be had after BTCTC and Bitfunder and Havelock wasn't aggressive in getting this business.

Where can this prospectus be found?  I am unable to find a link to it on the Havelock site.

Yes! We are currently processing new applications.

If you would like to apply please send an e-mail to: Funds@HavelockInvestments.com

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

https://www.havelockinvestments.com/reports.php

I really think you should link to that from the security.

Done!
Thank you for your input!

great reaction speed!

Concerning the prospectus "PROJECTED REVENUE": do all securities pay as listed there? Didn't TAT mention something about getting favorable conditions for listing his funds as they helped kickstart this exchange?

The fees are based on our general current Tariff. Any discounts if any to any Fund will be based on a case by case basis.

Havelock Investments

so what's the actual price? On the site it's 0.005 in prospectus 0.0005?

Thank you for catching this error.

The price is BTC0.0005.

We fixed that on the public offering, will be out in about an hour.

Can you please provide us with your BTC address we would like to send you a reward.

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

wow you guys thanks a bunch! really unexpected :) 1CDBTX12qwyKzp2p1c8oWncGWTfHYq5gZA

We are all Unit Holders in the Bitcoin open source economy!

Thanx again!

Havelock Investments

speechless mate! those will go straight into HIF :) Cheers!

*Facepalm*
lol, I told James about this on IRC minutes after he published the docs the first time around  :D

We are trying to cover all spelling options for SEO purposes.
 ;D

Thank you.

Other than the fact that you are registered in Panama, how can you ensure that Havelock will not go the way of BitFunder and BTCT? I don't see how you guys are any more exempt from the same vulnerabilities that they were exposed to.

Investors could be S.O.L. if a month from now the feds come crashing down your door with immense pressure making you close down.

The Panama Fund is a registered licensed Private Investment company that follows the regulations required in the jurisdiction in which we operate.
We worked hard with local regulators to find a Legal way to offer our Bitcoin Venture Capital Fund.
Unless new Laws are written or existing Laws are rewritten we will continue to operate as is.

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

So, just to clarify...

The total number of undilutable shares is 100,000,000.
The percentage of shares actually traded publicly will be 5% of the total.
At a face value of BTC0.001 (ignoring IPO discounts), Havelock Investments will be worth BTC100,000. That's almost $70 million at current prices.

I apologise in advance if I'm missing something...

Based on our projected FY 2014 Revenue and Profit the price is based on 12X PE
Which our Investments Advisers on our team believe is a very low PE ratio for our Bitcoin Venture Capital Fund.
Also remember that all of Revenues will be Bitcoin based regardless of the Fiat/BTC ratio.

Thank you,

HIF

It's not that simple, if you are offering securities to U.S. citizens or anyone anywhere in the world for that matter, your business is operating in their jurisdiction. Basically an unregulated stock exchange, which, just like BF and BTCT, when you get pressured you pretty much won't have any choice but to shut down.

Not that I don't appreciate your service, but you're delusional if you think you're protected just because you are registered in Panama.

What is the capital to be raised in this IPO needed for?

Based on the BTC5870 mentioned in the prospectus, I think that should be ~17X.

It is an approximation at this time. Remember over 75% of our offering will be done in a discount.

Also we are not issuing any securities, but are offering our users the ability to purchase units of the Funds that
we manage.

Feel free to contact us directly so that we may explain that further.

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

1 BTC monthly fee for listing seems a lot, many small-but-profitable securities might have problems paying that.
Have you considered and discarded the possibility of offering discounts to some securities, or is there a chance of that happening?
Thinking there will be 50 securities able to pay that fee is overly optimistic, I fear.

Thank you for your prompt and honest responses.

The 1 BTC Maintenance fee to continue to be listed with our Site is based on our current General Tariff.
Adjustments or discounts will be considered based on the size of the asset we manage.

HIF

so that projected profit of 5870 btc (it really takes 2K btc to run your exchange?) is divided by 100,000,000 shares?

That's .0000587 per share, at a value of .001, so like 5.87% APR?

Or did I do a calculation wrong somewhere?

Your Calculation based on those projections are right. But remember that the Blocks have a built in discount to them.

So the first block is 50% off, which will double the yield. We also look to increase overall unit value not just the dividends.

Thank you

Havelock Investments

Expenses seem really high, what is 2K BTC being spent on.  Are their salaries on top of the 75% that is being held by owners?

even at 11% APR, it's not very attractive.  Is our investment secured or anything?  Why such a low return?  A security like this is very high risk.

And if you increase the value of the security (not sure how you can do that with 6% APR), then the APR will decrease.

Am I missing something?  Why should we loan you bitcoins for 6% APR?

 ^
This   

Thank you for your comment,

Most emerging growth companies do not pay a dividend. Companies that are not able to grow their core business offer a dividend as they will not need to reinvest their profits. We choose to offer a dividend to our unit holders. Over the next couple of years we are looking to increase our core revenue. As our revenue increases so would the value of our units. A dividends yield is not the first issue you should look into when purchasing emerging growth companies.

We appreciate your time looking into our Fund Offering.

Havelock Investments

I understand thee business is registered and operates in Panama but the operators are in Canada correct? What is the projected legal environment for BTC in Canada fr the next few years?
 
Also, what's the word on the street in regards to competing exchanges???

Are you very confident you will not go the way of BTC.CO in one calendar year? I also point out that Burnside initially wasn't worried cause BTC.CO was in Panama for him too, but he got scared legally at home and shut down...

Not a detractor, I am rooting for a stable xchange....

The business is 100% In Panama!

To clarify,

We have enough funds to run HavelockInvestments.com and are not looking for any of our users to lend us or provide us with any Capital for our operations.
That is why we only offer 5% of the Company.

This Fund is offered as a way for our loyal users to participate in any profits derived from the operations of the HavelockInvestments.com website.

We want the Bitcoin community to participate with us in this growing venture.

Join us in Funding the next generation of Bitcoin Empowered Business!

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

I always hate the rushed feeling of all this. Documents are released to the public, and 24 hours after that the fund goes live. That's never enough time for an investor to make a calculated decision on whether or not investing is a good idea. Add in the "Get it while we offer at a 50% discount" attitude and everything starts to blend in with the other quickly thrown together short-lived ventures.

I'm not saying Havelock doesn't know what they're doing or that this isn't any less legitimate than I think it is...just more of a "I wouldn't do it this way for various reasons" kind of thing.  :D

Oh how generous of you guys. Why dont you give away the 5% of the company but rather want close to 5milion$ for it ? At least be honest about what you are doing this forum/community went through enough BS last few months

You value your Panamanian website, the spelling of which you yourself are yet to master (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339417.msg3643117#msg3643117), at 100,000 BTC?! 100K BTC?  Over 600 million dollars at current prices?  Could you doublecheck your calculations to make sure a few extra zeros haven't been tacked on by mistake?  I understand that occasionally happens when dealing with large numbers (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339417.msg3642744#msg3642744).

Honestly, if anything, this just turns me off of Havelock.

Hi Crumbs,

At ~$600 the current Bitcoin/Fiat rate BTC100,000 = $60,000,000   Not the $600 Million referenced above!

Could you please clarify where we may have made a mistake. We appreciate you input.

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

Oh, thank goodness *I* am not trying to float a mlti-million dollar company.  Imagine how embarrassing that sort of a slip-up would have been?
Oh, wait...  You don't have to imagine (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339417.msg3642744#msg3642744).
*If you would like your other mistakes clarified, i'm eager to help a fellow tinkerer in this open source economy (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339417.msg3642917#msg3642917).

New house, car, vocation, luxury, what else.. oh,  better customer service  ;)

Bingo.
This is why I am entirely turned off by this enterprise.

Come on guys, they just want $60 MILLION DOLLARS to play with. What's the big deal? :D

To make this even half way worthwhile for investors, you need to back up this security with some sort of insurance to mitigate the high risk. Typical return in this area is well over 30% APR for something with a similar risk profile.

So, if you are giving 6%, you need to come up with a way to lower that risk.

+1

The only reason I can think of for such a hurry, is that they hope for someone panic-buying without giving it much attention.

Of course if there is a better reason I wasn't able to think of, I'd be happy!

Since when do securities offer insurance?  Investing is a risk, if you don't want to take on the risk fine but its kinda funny that you require a safety net.   Do venture capitalists ask for insurance?  Did people investing in google when it came out demand insurance?  You want a guaranteed return on your investment, go buy 0.2% treasuries or something "safe".  You don't get the potential growth without taking on the risk yourself.
Go play at the kids table if you can't handle it.

crazy!

the numbers are outright insulting..

the market aint big enough to make your site worth that much

think about it guys.. this is nuts -- just hold your bitcoins tight

Lol, hurry up and GET IN THE VAN!

http://s11.postimg.org/o644ssd2b/free_candy_van1.jpg

for the amount of money we are giving them, we would get more than 5% ownership if we were venture capitalists.  We'd also get a bigger chunk of the profits.

what potential growth?  Even their own optimistic estimates put this at 6% APR with 50 new listings a year.  The investors here are taking ALL the risk and getting very little in return.

For the level of risk with this venture, we should be getting a bigger cut for us effectively loaning them our money.  Look at the other securities with similar risk profiles.  The APR is 30% or more.

I mean, 2 of their competitors closed within the last 2 months, and both competitors were considerably larger, had significantly more users/listings, had better service, had better interfaces/platforms, and they STILL closed.  What does HL bring to the market?  "We're not closed... yet"  In every single way, they offer an inferior service to those that have shut down.

On the subject of risk and some sort of mitigation for that risk, look at XBOND, they are paying 17% and have considerably less risk than this security.

Adults do the math, and when it doesn't add up, they ask questions.  I know you're new here, so I'll let that one slide, but you should really be asking questions, not jumping on those that do.

Wow, thanks for proving to everyone you have no clue about investing.  6% APR is the dividends...which few if any startups ever pay.  You think the early investors demanded google to start paying dividends or rightly re-investing profits into the business.   The investor's return comes in the form of CAPITAL GAINS. You are looking for a bond not a stock/fund.


You'll let that one slide?  OH THANK YOU HAVE MERCY.  You have allowed me to exist.

Whose sock are you, anyway?  You registered yesterday just to shill for this absurdity?

Thank you for all that have contacted us and showed us your support, we truly appreciate it.

Our company is a Bitcoin based business, and since our Revenue and our Expenses are tied to Bitcoin we are unable to value it based on any Fiat/Bitcoin ratio.

We believe in Bitcoin for the long term. We operate at the Bitcoin to Bitcoin ratio. The people in our team would continue to work with Bitcoin if it was worth $1, $10 or $1000. The same way that a business in Europe calculates its revenue based in EURO and another business in China in Yuan, we value our company in Bitcoins.

We don't believe that anyone is able to predict what the price of Bitcoin would be in FY2014, that is why we operate only in Bitcoins. It is a must for our type of business.

All of our Team members including even the Landlord have agreed to accept Bitcoin as payment, regardless of its ratio.

We believe that in order to run a successful Bitcoin business, a company can not change its rates based on external prices of what Bitcoin is worth today, tomorrow or next year.

WE are not in business of Fiat or in exchanging anything into Fiat. We only handle Bitcoins, and we believe that other Bitcoin companies should follow the same model if Bitcoin is to become a hard currency where it is not only used as a Stock, but used the same way that we all use the USD, EUR or JPY.

Please do not place a value of our company or any other Bitcoin company based on how many USD it is worth. The whole point of Bitcoin is to step away from that approach.
We value our company based on our projected revenue in Bitcoins not in USD.

Once again we appreciate all of the great feedback we have received and are looking forward to serving the needs of the companies we manage and the users we serve.

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

maybe you should browse through the "stocks" listed on HL to see their dividends and APR rates.

This is bitcoin, not USD regulated markets, so the risk is considerably higher.  And yes, here in the BTC securities market, we require high risk securities to offer faster and higher returns in exchange for the RISK LEVELS we are exposed to.  The risk with this particular security is EXTREMELY high because of the market they are in and they bring nothing new to the marketplace.

Where do the capital gains come from in this market?  Where is the flood of new securities to even meet the optimistic levels in the prospectus?  They claim a value of $60M USD?  seriously?  for a bad exchange website with a couple of lightly traded securities?  How in the hell are they going increase that value?

Comparing USD securities, like Google, to small BTC exchanges shows how little you know about this market.

No, I am looking for an investment with an appropriate profit/risk ratio. 

You are saying you are worth 100,000 BTC, which is completely unreasonable.  What did BTCT sell for or was selling for?  They had a lot more securities than you, a better platform and significantly more trust.  And even then, no one would value them at 100,000 BTC. 

What is the justification for the value listed? 

When the IPO is already starting out significantly overvalued and pays extremely low dividends with very high risk, there is no incentive to invest.

Is it customary for a multi-million dollar registered business to withhold information such as the names of its owners/directors?  Can we at least get a link to your Facebook page or YouTube account?
The only info provided is a phone number resolving in Minnesota, USA.  Is this also typical for Panamanian corporations?

You still have to face the reality that bitcoin is a deflationary currency. It does not matter how you measure it: USD, EUR, gold, silver, man hours, acres of land in Manhattan; the value of a bitcoin is designed to go up over time. It may seem reasonable to charge 1 bitcoin for a listing now, but if the value of a bitcoin rises drastically then that amount will seem absurd to anybody considering listing on the exchange. So you will be forced to either lower the prices for your services or you will have less people utilize those services, either way we can expect the revenues measured in bitcoin to decrease over time.

This IPO seems overpriced to me. You can say you value the company at 100000 btc instead of 60000000 USD, but it means the same thing and is equally overvalued.

Is this a SatoshiDice style IPO where all the money generated from stock sales goes into the pockets of the current owners, or is this raising new capital for the company? What will the money be spent on?

Edit Wait, somebody said there are 100`000`000 units, but now I see there are 20`000`000 units listed, that is a big difference, could you clarify? Even with a market cap of only 20`000 btc, I think that is still overpriced.

And there seems to be some confusion over the price being listed as 0.005 vs 0.0005, there are still bid orders at 0.005, those people will be very sad to find out they bought at 10x the going price, maybe you should send out an email to all the people who received the announcement email stating that there was a mixup and they should change their bids?

Edit Edit: Ah, now I see, you are selling 25% of 20% of the company. Why not just say you are selling 5% of the company? Why make a distinction between the 80% you are not selling and the 15% which is not for sale?

What is the current sales volume per day for the site?

You expect to spend 300`000 USD each on law and accounting firms? You should really look into hiring your own lawyer and accountant and cut that cost way down!

If I am calculating right, using your numbers, you want a P/E of (100000/5870) = 17, like I said this seems a bit on the expensive side to me, for such a risky investment.

yeah, especially as they have never come close to those numbers nor provide any reason or methods on how they will achieve those levels of profit.  Do you see a flood of new securities lining up to sign up on HL?  I don't.

Still looks like the ipo is getting eaten up pretty quick

Well, they did take some time off offering new securities while they addressed the legal issues, and there have been a couple IPO recently, maybe Havelock could give us a statement on the actual number of securities in the pipeline to get listed? The prospectus should also include some actual current data about usage rates, current sales, and the recent performance of the site.

The values seem highly over evaluated and unreasonable.

Let's take a look at your mine source of income: trading fess.

You're currently facing around BTC250/day in volume. In your prospectus you're projecting BTC2,000/day in volume for Q1 (that's in less than 2 months). That's more than 8-times of today's volume. What did you smoke to come to this evaluation?

Going further: Your projection for the whole year is BTC1,260,000. You actually think that 10% of all bitcoin currently in circulation will flow through your site?

But even granting that your projection is fair with net profits of BTC5,870 for the first year, an evaluation of nearly BTC100,000 is absolutely insane.

As it states in our Prospectus, there are currently 50 Funds in the Pipeline for FY2014

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

BitFunder also had 39 funds listed. Most of them traded at sub BTC1 daily volume.

So you're basing all your numbers on these potential 50 funds. Is there any evidence that you can show us that these funds aren't made up?

Aha, now there is some data we can use. (Havelock, can you confirm this number for the current trade volume?) So with a trade fee of .4%, that is 1.0 btc per day. That gives an income of 365 btc, (ignoring expenses at the moment) which would be a PE of 274.

Here is a suggestion: in the prospectus, put in three estimates of future performance, make the current estimate the "extremely good" projection, add two more projections with increasingly conservative estimates.


pascal257: remember that there is velocity to bitcoins, so the total trade volume can exceed the monetary base without any troubles. For example, if there is 1 coin in existence, I use it to buy your car and then you use it to buy my house, we have transacted 2 coins using a monetary base of just 1 coin.

how many are legit, what is their market cap, expected volume, etc?  Where is the evidence that these actually exist? As stated already, your current volume is miniscule, and almost an order of magnitude away from what you hope it will be in 2 months.

And where are these funds coming from? How many of these funds were listed on the now defunct sites?

Cryptostocks has a lot of funds listed, dozens in fact, far more than your site, and yet, no one would seriously value their operation at 100,000 BTC.

Will any of the IPO money go towards making your site as good as the exchanges that have closed?  When will it be brought up to the level of bitfunder and/or BTCT?

I was trying to hold off from posting here, but must do so just on principle, to try to inform potential investors and put things in perspective.

I'm seeing a valuation of roughly BTC100000 = $50,000 million, with only a 6 page prospectus to back that up?

For starters, we know the market value of such an investment from Litecoinglobal. I believe it traded between 1-10mm USD roughly over the months, and I believe ended badly for all - and was probably way overvalued.

Considering the valuation, unprofessional and opaque prospectus, crappy projected PE/Ratio (17 is considered ok for a blue-chip company - not a micro cap), and dividend, with extremely high risks, I can't see how anyone can buy here.

First of all, it does not address fluctuations between btc/usd and how that will affect fees and volume.

"Our company is a Bitcoin based business, and since our Revenue and our Expenses are tied to Bitcoin we are unable to value it based on any Fiat/Bitcoin ratio."

This is bunk. Fluctuations will have an affect on your business. You are not bitcoin-only based, only mining is close that I know of. So, expenses/salaries will be the same if BTC = $2000? What if BTC = $20 again?  Look at Satoshi Dice - when bitcoin went 10x, did their volume hold in BTC? No, it remained stable in USD. Yet - you plan to pay expenses and salaries in bitcoin? Insane. BTC is not stable enough for this.

What is the point of listing 15 mm "restricted" units if they will not be sold?

Revenues:

So you're saying by end of next year, you'll have 150 funds on the site, paying $600+ USD in btc a month (at current rates) to be listed? I doubt that. What makes you think funds will continue to pay 1 btc as the price of btc continues to rise?

Let's say you increase number of paying funds to triple in a year (45) (btw why does it say 2012, and why are 50 funds paying 150 btc at the end of a year?) and earn ~360 btc in that way (seems high)

Lets say you triple trading volume through the next year, and thus manage to earn another ~830 btc in this way.

Finally, let's say these 30 new funds are able to raise 15,000 btc, earning you 750 btc (credit where credit is due, that is a smart business move on Havelock's part)

You've now managed to earn 1940 btc this year (barely equals your projected expenses in the form of "Office, Internet, Electrical, Law, Accounting, Compliance, and Miscellaneous") - My thoughts here, take from the example of other bitcoin companies, and pay for some of these unnecessary expenses out of your own 95% share of the dividends until you've exceeded your forecasts).

Even assuming zero expenses and high growth and these generous projections, not considering the high risk we've seen with Bitfunder, BTCT, etc, this values your company at somewhere around 5000-7000 btc, being generous across the board.

I think Havelock is a great platform, and I was excited to see the IVFO. Havelock is a great business, but this offers little upside for investors. What is driving ridiculous valuation, and sale? Speculators looking for a quick flip? Greed will burn everyone in the end when not used in moderation. MPEX trades at a similarly high valuation as far as I can tell, and I'm not sure why (haven't researched it, not gonna pay 30 btc to trade there)

Maybe I am wrong, we will see!

HIF - Accepting Donations!

well, 90% of cryptostocks listings are scam ;-)

I was just putting things into perspective.

at least 2/14 of HL listings are scams.

My point is that number of securities offered doesn't necessarily increase the value of the exchange.

at least 3/10, but we are offtopic with that here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=311875.msg3349430)

I was talking about the securities listed on Havelock.

Let's put this in perspective:

1) "Israeli start-up Wix raises $127m in Nasdaq IPO"

Wix sets it's IPO at 700 million dollar market cap.

Wix is likely to have $150 million dollars in revenues- has 400 employees - and 40 million users

2) Havelock IPO's at 50 million dollar market cap (edited)

Havelock revenues ???? Employees??? Users #???

Google "Build a Website" and you'll see Wix.

mmm, I think we already discussed the market cap is more like $60 million, not $440 million. But your argument still stands: how is this company possibly worth this many bitcoins?

I think it was Mircea Popescu who said there are two ways to value a company: how much money would it take to build the assets, and how much money would you get for selling all the assets. I don't think either of those valuations comes anywhere the millions they are asking here.

Oops, good point.
Thanks - editing.

Looks like Have will raise 625 today for 1.25%, when the first wave sells out. .

Seriously this all looks so weird, are we even dealing with the same people that were behind havelock before this panama business bought them? Or is this is just some sort of balant scam.

Someone explain to potential investors what you guys are talking about with Havelock Scam? I heard they were great to due business with? Did the company sell to new mgmt? Do we(or the major trusted players running the legit companies) have real names here?

We need to use a type of "scientific" method,(Scammer Turing test) or at least best practice to make sure this doesn't turn into Labcoin 3.0.  Havelock also feel free to chime in to assuage our fears and tell us who has the real names in case the S hits the fan.

Acquire a trusted name in the Bitcoin world on which you can list your own IPO without scrutiny, shortly after rush out an IPO, offer discounts for the first issue to encourage quick buying, only release info hours before IPO so people don't figure it out, take hundreds of coins & run off?

It does seem strange, and would be clever.  I really hope it's not the case.  Especially as I have (perhaps stupidly - we'll see), bought a few shares!

November 1, 2013 - Havelock Investments (HavelockInvestments.com), a leading Bitcoin Denominated Investment Fund, announced today that it has executed a definitive agreement to be acquired by The Panama Fund, S.A, a fully licensed and registered Panamanian Investment Company.

The acquisitions creates the world's first, fully licensed, Bitcoin Denominated Fund Exchange, where companies from around the world will be able to raise capital directly, through the exclusive use of Bitcoins.

With this acquisition HavelockInvestments.com will be able to maintain its current Funds, as well as expand its operations, while attracting new opportunities in the rapidly expanding Bitcoin Marketplace.

The original HavelockInvestments.com team will remain in place and will play a key role in the future growth of the company.

Congrats on Phase 1 IPO selling out
 ;)

Thank you,

We appreciate all the support and the great feedback and input from all of the users of our website HavelockInvestments.com

When can we start the trading?  :)
I bet you wanna achieve trading fees  :D

I very much hope this is the case and that Havelock + The Panama Fund are a combo that build a great company together.

Does the Panama Fund have a web site?

I'll also add my congratulations for the Phase 1 IPO sell out :)

The Panama Fund does not have a website since for the past 5 years it has acted as a Private Investment Company.
But Feel free to contact us at any time to find out more.

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

Could you please go ahead and elaborate on the concerns raised in this thread?

Invest in a Panamanian shelf company with no history and no real names attached?  Into this: http://ohuiginn.net/panama/company/id/610201
What could possibly go wrong?*

*Taking into account that 90% of BTC-denominated securities turn out to be scams, 100% lose money, and...
...and the proprietor of this fine enterprise, while asking for millions of dollars, *won't even give you his name*.

Why is an investment firm purchasing an asset only to try and raise an investment from other investors? What is 3600XBT to "The Panama Fund" and why can't they pony up 1.6 million dollars themselves. Seems Illogical.

+1

they are either completely insane or definitely shady, and I'd opt for the latter.

This is quite sad, I was optimistic about HL when the notice of this Panama-based company buying it, but now it's clear they are in it just for some quick buck, deceiving potential investors...

Because "they want us to be part of their magic dream".
I.e. they are going to take the money and then kindly weep and apoligise when the dividends are shit, and the return of investment is pretty much never.
Or they are going to pay dividends using the funds they raised i.e. ponzi.

Obvious scam is obvious.

I think that without trading people are left in the dark regarding the market value of this share. Maybe this is intentional and they will not enable trading during the IPO. Anyway, I think that it would be fair if they at least stated when trading will start.

Trading will commence once the IVFO is complete per our prospectus.

Over the past few months many of our users have contacted us and wanted a way for us to offer them a way to purchase, invest in our company. The best and fairest way was to offer our own Fund on our site.  The link to a "Shelf" company by crumbs is a defunct website that hasn't functioned in a couple of years. Go ahead and click on the links on that site and it would give you errors.  Also The Panama Fund is administered by a Law Firm here in Panama. The same Law Firm administers various other Investment companies, hence their names will be on the other companies as well. One of the partners in the Panama Fund will be traveling next week and will be in Vancouver, Canada. He will be setting up a meet up with anyone that would like to attend. Feel free to just pick up the phone and call us. How many Bitcoin business don't have a phone number, ours is on our contact us page.

Thank you,

HavelockInvestments.com

translated: i wanna flip shares!, y u trick me?

the joke is on everyone that bought these, in a month theyll be much cheaper too

Not sure why data on a defunct website would be any less relevant, but I'll bite.
The site is not defunct.  Its index page was last updated less than two months ago.  The site's archives go back to September 2004, and its owner provides his full name.  You don't give us your name, just a throwaway phone number.

You go on to say that The Panama Fund is administered by "a Law Firm here in Panama."  You do not offer the name of the law firm.

I'm happy to help by offering you a way to establish a measure of credibility:
What is your name?
What is your involvement with Havelock?

It's defunct that it hasn't been updated since 2010, when the Database platform was changed in the public registry.

PANAMA LEGAL MANAGEMENT administrates The Panama Fund.

I also PM you with personal info. If you are in Panama or know someone that is we would love to have them visit our offices. 


Thank You
HavelockInvestments.com

Please refrain from sending me information via private messages.  Doing so avails you full deniability, puts me in an awkward position where i am unable to share this information with other potential investors, and is no way of conducting legitimate business.
A legitimate firm does not disburse essential corporate information through forum PMs.  Be kind enough to include it in your prospectus and post it in this thread.  

Regards

Edit:  Thus far, the info you have offered in your PM does not check out.

Dear Crumbs,

Thank you for your input. We tried to reach out to you but have yet to receive any contact from you other then posting on this forum. If any potential individual would like to come visit us personally or call us directly. Here is our contact numbers:

Telephone Toll free Canada/USA: 1-866-305-1531 Edit: 1-866-978-8076
Telephone International/Panama: +507-832-2461

A quick search for your US number results in http://scamadvocates.com/1442-Secure-Holding-Investments.html "Secure Holding Investments Scam."

Awesome.

Wow... Thank you Crumbs, we were not aware, as we only applied and received this number in October, 2013 as we were setting up access for anyone from Canada/US to reach us.
That scam alert was posted on or about late 2011, about 2 years ago, and obviously

We really should have searched the number as well . Thank you for bringing this up to our attention. We will contact our local telephone carrier and request a new number right away.

We would love to reward your effort for bringing this to our attention. If you would like please provide us with a Bitcoin address.

Once again thank you so much!

HavelockInvestments.com

Lol, no thanks.  Spend it on stepping up your game.
I have no problem with scams as a whole, it's your laziness and sloppiness that irks me.
Try to take pride in what you do, so that your victims could have the dignity of knowing that that they were scammed by a dedicated professional.

 :D

...I like you.

Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between an outright attempt to scam and mere gross incompetence.

I can't tell you which one of these two alternatives applies in this particular case, but I don't believe it's worth my time -- or anybody's time -- even to bother analysing which alternative it might be.

The claimed financials are so transparently ludicrous it's not even funny.

And incidentally, it would be very easy to come up with those "50 Funds in the Pipeline for FY2014", each of which will be coughing up 12 BTC per annum in fees. All that takes is 600 BTC, which is easily covered by the initial tranche from running the HIF IPRO^* itself -- presto, instantly visible revenues to reassure those "loyal users" and visionary early adopters. And naturally, if each of those 50 funds runs its own IPRO^* to secure even just a fraction of the amount sucked up by first IPRO^*, the whole thing could keep itself running long enough to generate quite the handsome payoff before collapsing.

^*IPRO = Initial Public Rip-Off

Yeah, the whole thing stinks of either scam or ignorance/incompetence and the contract/prospectus is missing so much information as to be beyond a joke.

Even if this isn't a scam, the return and terms are ridiculous for this market.  As soon as this is a real alternative, like Colored coins or Mastercoin or whatever solution people come up with, Havelock will most certainly close.  They offer nothing new, and don't even meet the standards that other exchanges had (and even they closed).  The site is ridiculous from an user standpoint and is the biggest obstacle to user adoption.

So, the future of HL is fragile, at best, and paying 6% for that kind of risk is ludicrous.

I think when they get figured out, they will become a competitor to exchanges.  Even direct shares, as they are now, is a competition to exchanges.  How many direct shares of AM are there vs how many are listed on Havelock?  Look at how many shareholders chose to hold on to their shares after BTCT vs moving them to Havelock.  That doesn't show much confidence in Havelock.

These solutions are not ready for wide use, yet, but make no mistake, centralized exchanges are not what the market is currently requesting.

Regardless of your feelings about the solutions being presented, people are not flocking to Havelock and the proposed valuation is complete nonsense.

bro you write some of the most delusional, shortsighted, ignorant comments in this board

wtf do u know about what the market wants or needs..

just cuz 4 corny knowitalls on a forum say decentralized is the future dont make it the death of all things that make sense

smh

how much pot do you smoke?

talk less please

Rage much?

Even if the proposed solutions of colored coins or mastercoin do not directly compete with Havelock, they or some other decentralized system will be run over various marketplaces which will compete with Havelock. There is also the possibility of somebody buying the BTCT code and starting up another exchange, or somebody writing up new code or whatever. The barrier to entry in this space is very low, companies will list at the exchange that gives them the best combination of price, exposure, and security.

so the market is flocking to centralized exchanges?

yeah, I agree with what you're saying, and like I said, the proposed solutions are not ready, yet.  They currently are not a threat to exchanges, but it's obvious that the exchanges that currently exist (Havelock included) are not attracting a lot of users nor issuers that did exist on previous platforms.

That adds to the fact that HIF is a terrible investment with a LOT of risk.

whats your point, people gon make things that do things, and people gon do things and maybe not other things?

thx bruh

this thread is for pointing out that HIF is a ripoff all on its own, can we stay on topic?

what leads you to believe this?

Of the 14 securities being traded on this "exchange," two have a market cap of 1BTC (actually lower, but market cap doesn't have fractions :(), and all but one stock have tanked.
What is that winning stock?  It's Havelock Investments Fund itself, floated yesterdy & not yet traded.  Give it a chance :)

Quite an unfortunate randomly assigned phone number.  This is how all telecom providers work, they have a "pool" of numbers that they can recycle and give out to other clients after set periods of time.  Traditionally the turnover was a lot slower, but these days with VOIP, its easy to activate/remove toll free numbers with the click of a button and the providers end up turning over their pool more frequently.

One bit of ugliness could be written off as an unfortunate coincidence.  Every bit of this offering simply scrams "scam."  Considering BTC securities failure rate as a whole (none of the shares currently offered by Havelock are trading at a higher than issue price.  Two have collapsed.) and the opportunities presented by an anonymous exchange floating its own shares...  There's only one way this will end.
Regardless, this offering is simply too sloppily executed and poorly baited to be taken seriously.

Edit:  What's your current role in this offering?

Did you read what I wrote? My point is that Havelock is in a field with a very low barrier to entry, so even though there are few competitors right now there will be new competitors in the future. Therefore, the risk of losing money on this is high. The proposed reward, even in a best case scenario, does not balance the risk. Therefore, this is severely overpriced.

Why are you getting so mad, I was agreeing with you!


[edit] It looks like you can decrease the number of active funds by 1, xbond is closing, which should lower the projected income.

When you go on Havelock to the "Browse All Funds" section, there is a column labeled "IPO" and all the funds say "NO", shouldn't it say "YES" in the line with HIF?

I've seen here some people posting that Havelock is unprofessional because they send PMs to people. Really guys?

They are financial guys who have operated a lot in the real world doing real business not trolling forum boards. Give them a break for not knowing all the geek etiquette of "financial bitcoin posting".

This forum is full of clueless "financial experts".

No.
In the real world, there are no anonymous multi-million dollar corporations attempting to solicit millions of dollars without disclosing as much as the names of the people involved.
Regarding "geek etiquette of posting":
When fleecing clueless geeks on the interwebs, it pays to learn a few basics about posting.  It shows effort and dedication, and lets the geeks keep a modicum of self-respect upon realizing they've been had.

I believe the Neo&Bee guys publicly said here on forum they personally know all the Panama Fund guys and that they can vouch for them basically. That should be enough for most people here. Not sure about making their real life info public but don't think that would be a problem for them.

You're confused.  
If you would happily hand over millions of dollars to a Panamanian shelf company without even knowing the name of the guy who's taking it from you...  I'm sorry to say you're the "clueless 'financial expert'" you claim this forum is full of.

It pains me to see the quality of bitcoin cons fall to such jaw-dropping lows, but i will not stop you from giving away your coin.
Peace.

Neo&Bee is probably most established crypto stock right now and they can vouch for these guys, as I was saying. You can pick up the phone and call them. I don't think they'd shy away for giving out their names. Remind me again what's one of best selling stocks in here? Who's friedcat? Do you know who he is? Can you call him on the phone? I rest my case. :)

I didn't buy their stock so I didn't really look into it in detail. What I'm saying should give you pause because you'll probably end up looking foolish when more info surfaces about these guys.

Lol, you actually worry about me looking foolish on the off chance this proves *not* to be a scam?
If you're investing to make yourself look clever, you're doing it wrong :D
As far as who's friedcat:  He's the guy whose stock i'm happy as shit i ain't holdin'. It tanked :(

Do you do anything besides create FUD?

Name one legit, profitable, legal company that has been around for more than a year that runs anonymously.
Name one legal financial company that remains open for more than a year and runs anonymously.

If this was a legal business, there would be an "about us" page with photos of the people who should be proud to running a legal bitcoin securities exchange.

Asicminer. Case closed. Not to mention havelock has been around for more than a year and runs anonymously... Although I suppose it is no longer anonymous as it was aquired by the panama fund which has to be registered to someones name.

Sorry, but I have not and will not invest in a company that runs anonymously; or at least isn't proud enough to show their name(s) on their website. If you are in China, you might have to be anonymous or you might get canned like coingarden. Is this true in Panama?


I've read this too. However I'd still feel comfortable if they disclosed who they are.

Does the Panama Fund have a company address/registration #?
Does Havelock have a business address/registration #?

A major feature of bitcoin is the fact that you can operate anonymously. AM since day one said they would be operating anonymously and investors knew this. Turns out AM was a hugely profitable company even though it is run anonymously.

My point is that anonymity is an option in the bitcoin world. We have seen through past experience that havelock and asicminer can both deliver without the need for names.

A major problem with having an exchange that is not run anonymously is the fact that you will need to comply with SEC regulations or they will come knocking eventually.

Also we know how hard it is to confirm identities on the internet and easy to fake them. Take a look at labcoin. A supposedly registered company under the name sam noi which many now believe is not a real person.



Yes. Panama fund has been a registered exchange in panama since 2006 if I remember correctly.

If Havelock was indeed sold, it goes to reason that the new owner != the old owner.  The new owner, a Panamanian shelf company (http://ohuiginn.net/panama/company/id/610201), has no track record here.  So your allusion to "more than a year" is simply nonsense.  And jimmothy, since you obviously know nothing about The Panama Fund, why the attitude?

But they say that they are legal.

What is the entirety of the legal basis for running this?

FUD and more FUD.

Havelocks entire team merged with the panama fund team so new owner = old+new.

No track record according to that site which I have no idea what it is. It is known that panama fund is a private investment company. Meaning no public website or public trading.

Crumbs literally the only person coming up with these conspiracy theories daily is you. It is time you take a break.

I don't know but asking a bunch of armchair "investors" is not going to give you the right answer.

But nobody has yet to point out any evidence that they are doing anything illegal/shady. Well besides crumbs.

I understand your point. I'd just be much more at ease if the legal basis for operating was divulged. You don't need one to run a mining shop.

Understand that I can't just take anyone's word for it - "Yes we are legal". Well, how?

Utter nonsense.  Either you're sincerely clueless, or you're one of the hapless goofs who bought this fail hoping to flip.
Let me remind you that this is not AM.  Just because you once bought a winning lotto ticket, don't start thinking that buying lotto is a smart way of making money.
This particular lotto ticket barely pays over face value when it wins, which is never.

You have literally no evidence that panama fund SA is not a legit company. Besides your own speculation and reasoning based on your intense googling skills.

This has to be taken into consideration. For every ASICMINER there have been, what, 10, 20 other securities that have failed, all of which were anonymous and had no reparations.


Correct, but the burden of proof is up to the company looking for investor's money.

You don't understand what "sold" means, do you?  When you sell something, you no longer own it.  The new owner may keep you on as hired help, but he sure isn't going to consult your ethics.  I'm afraid the track record's gone.  Under new management.

I'm far from alone in calling this a scam -- Deprived voiced a similar sentiment, offhand :)  Consider reading more than just the last post before typing.

If you want more proof a good place to start would be havelock account: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=64492;sa=showPosts

You will notice how many conspiracy theories from crumbs that havelock has had to put to rest. It is no surprise that people like friedcat don't waste all their time answering endless amount of already answered questions.


Also if you want you can even call them at Telephone International/Panama: +507-832-2461

Or you could even visit their offices if you happen to be in panama. Crumbs should go fly down there and put the FUD to rest.

You're pitiably naive if you think that it's reasonable to give your money to strangers unless i prove, to your satisfaction, that they are scammers.  Most adults play thing differently -- they don't hand over their money *until the company proves its legitimacy*.
But hey -- buy buy buy :)

I don't even need to respond to your conspiracy theories. Anyone can just look at havelocks post history and count the number of your conspiracy theories he has had to respond to.

I would just love to know what exactly you do here in the securities forum? You clearly don't invest in any of these companies because to you they are all scams.

I dare you to go down to panama and visit their offices like havelock suggested you do. You will probably find a registered private exchange doing exactly everything havelock said. Or you would find an empty office and their "scam" would collapse. Either way you wont do it because you would much rather use your "reasoning".

Jimmothy, i hate repeating this, but you insist:
Thus far, if you have invested in bitcoin securities, you are either deeply regretting it, or you're a raving lunatic. I want scammers and idiots to stop shitting up my bitcoin. I'm tired of being embarrassed to admit to being a bitcoiner.  I'm tired of people assuming that i'm someone ... like you.

Jimothy, you just don't understand how life works.  The burden of proof is always on the guy with his hand reaching for my pocket, not the other way around.  If you want to make the trip worth my while, pay my air fair, expenses, plus a nominal consideration for my time, please shoot me an offer.  I will consider it :)

Unless you invested in AM or one of the other companies that did not fail... Why are you wasting your time here? Your conspiracy theories that are constantly addressed and put to rest contribute nothing besides FUD.

You will notice you are in fact alone in all your conspiracy theories.

Besides the fact that there is plenty of proof. Anyone interested could take a look at havelock's post history.

Jimothy, no matter how many times you repeat "conspiracy theories," no matter how you underline it, you're still dead wrong.
As i have said before, just because there are people who won the lotto, it does not mean that "investing" in lottery tickets is smart.  It's not.  Only idiots and suckers do it.  Please stop.  I hate feeling sorry for people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory

Changing your reasons to call havelock a scam every week is exactly how conspiracy theories work. As soon as more evidence is revealed, a new theory from you will pop up until yet again it has to be disproven.

Bro, you're not even trying.  Would someone who ran a reputable business misspell its name in the prospectus?  Twice?!  In two different alternative spellings?!!  :D

Edit:  Now you're just spamming.  Goodbye. :)

I'm not trying because it is clearly a waste of time. Next you will be telling me because havelock is not wearing matching socks they are definitely a scam.

Conspiracy theories don't ever disappear, they just keep changing and adapting to the new info given.

On behalf of everyone in this subforum, thank you and don't come again.

FUD?!?

He's warning you, but you are free to gift your money to scammers, np.

All you people on this forum are insane to trust a whole currency created by some anonymous guy. Seems WAY too shady. Please provide me the real identity of Satoshi Nakamoto or I call this whole Bitcoin business a huge scam. TYVM!

crumbs, please stop feeding the troll.

he is either trolling or is hopelessly stupid.

who wanted to read the truth can do it, who wants to throw his money to scammers will do it anyway,  no point in continuing this.

You are the one who has been trolling this thread from the very beginning. I've just checked your posting history in this thread. Your first post in this thread is a complaint regarding their listing fees. Based on this complaint alone, it's pretty safe to say you are totally clueless on some many levels.

The Havelock listing fee was 5BTC prior to being acquired by Panama Fund. It is now 1BTC. In the meantime I advise you to go check the Nasdaq listing fees and fees paid to the underwriters.

Seriously. Lets all stop using bitcoins because of anonymity.

Why come to a forum where it is well known and accepted to work with anonymity and complain that they are anonymous??

That is besides the fact that havelock is no longer anonymous after over a year of bullshitless operating and anyone wanting to find out real info about them can fly down to their offices or even just call them.

Or we could just create FUD based on speculation.


Essentially what you are doing is going to a forum for lottery tickets and telling everyone there how stupid they are for playing the lotto..

Lol, you really don't understand life in general, do you?  People don't use bitcoin because they trust Satoshi.  They use it because they understand hash functions, they understand that thus far, SHA 256 (created by U.S. National Security Agency) and the bitcoin network as a whole have not been shown to have any easily exploitable flaws.

The aforementioned, of course, does not imply that you can throw your coin at anyone who ask for it, and shit will magically work out.
This is bitcoin, not Equestria :)
If you think bitcoin scams are not possible, you're in the wrong neighborhood.

But we are not talking about some random guy asking for money. We are talking a well established bitcoin exchange merged with a legally registered private investment company in panama which is not anonymous meaning they cannot just take the coins and run as there are names to be held accountable. Anyone could find out more info if they want by looking at havelocks history or contacting them on the forums/phone/in person at their offices.

As for crumbs this is the last time I will reply to your FUD. As you contribute nothing I have to add you to the ignore list.

Can you please help those of us who think that this has the potential to be a scam to disprove this notion by pointing us to any evidence that the panama fund really exists?  I don't know anything about panama, but in the UK, you can look up registered companies & their directors. Can this be done for them?

This may not be a scam, but to see it as an impossibility without anything substantial to back it up this seems a bit naive.

If you hate people considering the possibility that this is a scam, please provide real information & reasoning to reduce suspicions.

Read havelocks post history. All the info is there.

If it is possibly a scam, you can't simply trust the potential scammer - you need external evidence to give confidence.

I've been trying very hard to stay out of this, umm, "discussion", but just wanted to chime in... no, this is not troll food, so please, trolls, pay no attention.

You've all trusted Havelock Investments for over a year, you could come to our office and talk with us, you could pick up the phone and call us.. and _many_ of you did.  When the Panama Fund acquired Havelock Investments from the original owners (myself and my business partner), we made sure to vette the purchaser (who we already had a pre-existing business relationship with) and required them to have contact information available.  One of the reasons you trusted Havelock to begin with was because we were a bricks and mortar office with a real phone number at our real address manned by real people.  The same continues to apply today, whether its in Canada or Panama makes no difference.   If  you have doubt, please, call, visit the office, check out the new owners in "real life"... if you're not willing to get off your ass and venture away from your computer chair in your parents basement, you probably shouldn't be in the Securities forum.   Taking part in securities (virtual or not) always requires you to do your own due diligence... actual due diligence. not just a few google searches.

James

People who did their due diligence figured out the company is horribly overvalued, and that the IPO was rushed.

Unless you can prove that there are 50 companies willing to pay 1 BTC/month during the next year?
Or explain how do you expect to spend 2000 BTC during 1 year?

Whoa James!  The "mom's basement" critique has been perfected in the rarefied would of international high finance :o
Now i see your power level is over 9000 -- ur all-pro :)

Since you're pitching this thing on the interwebs, home to lowly basement dwellers, might it not be a be more convenient to offer verifiable names & business records, or is an invitation to Panama the best you can offer?

Can i get an addy from you, or should i just ring you once i get through customs?

Also, is tomorrow a good time to stop by?  I'll be en route to Nigeria, where a prince has invited me to verify his legitimacy.
This is all so new and exciting for me!

21 Concourse Gate. Unit 13. Ottawa, ON. K2E7S4. Feel free to stop by the old Havelock Office in Canada and say hi.  The new owners i believe have already extended that invitation to you at the new Panama office.

+1

LOLZ!!!  James, this is your 60 75 MILLION DOLLAR operation?  Is it a *safe neighborhood*? :D

http://s13.postimg.org/7gf1d4mt3/Capture.png

Well you have to admit that this whole thing looks rushed and/or sloppy. Do you have a good reason why, for example, you didn't proofread your texts? While your operation might be legit you probably agree that one can expect the share prices and company name to be correct and that errors in such things are indeed a pretty big red flag.
If you have an explantion for the unprofessional start of your ipo beyond what basically amounts to "trust us" I would love to hear it.

Not _my_ operation anymore, but yes the location is very safe. Not sure what you think you can tell from a google street view.

https://www.crimereports.com/map?CRSearch=21%20concourse%20gate%20ottawa%20on

James, the Google Street View infused me with new confidence in your fine operation!  Plenty of parking :)  What's the monthly rate there, or do you pay by the week? :D
P.S.  If the new owner & the company are both in Somalia Panama, why are you inviting me to Canada?  Is it a clever trap? ???

http://torresdelasamericas.com/2009/?langVar=en

Torres De Las Americas
Torre A
Punta Pacifica
Republic Of Panama


Please call +507-832-2461  to make an appointment and come and visit us.

Office number?  Or are you renting the entire tower?  Who should i ask for at the reception desk?
I asked you to spend the coin you have offered me on ramping up your game.  You obviously ignored me >:(

P.S.  You can visit me instead at the

Empire States Building
New York, New York
USA

Strange, they just give us their address, knowing nobody will bother to go there, and avoid to give an answer to the real questions.
Who could have guessed!

FUD

There is so much uncertainty around this that doubt is quite logical, and perhaps fear if you've already invested.

More information & transparency would improve the situation. Vagueness does not.

I already asked this a couple days ago and was ignored.
Based on Havelocks response all their projected income is based on 50 funds which are "in the pipeline" for FY2014.

So I ask again, can you show us any evidence that these 50 funds exist and are not made up? You are basing your whole projection and thus your whole IPO on that. You should be able to provide some information.

The IPO seems to be stalling.  Answering people's questions to justify projections & giving some verification that everything is legit would help I'm sure.

Why is this not happening when so much is at stake for the company?  It certainly isn't inspiring confidence.

I hope you can come through on this, but at the moment I'm not convinced (and nor are others, hence IPO apparently stalling).

+1 Non of my questions have been answered, either.

And this this IPO launched, they lost at least 1 listing, so that should be considered, too.  How many listings will be lost in 2014?

Just as a side note (related), have you guys read the SEC response to Senator Carper's inquiry?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/184579094/Virtual-Currency-Response-LettersFederal-Agencies-Respond-to-Homeland-Security-Committee-Questions-on-Digital-Currencies

Starts on page 13.

So this IPO its almost stoped at 0.00066, I dont think it will sell at 1mB at this rate at all. At least open the trades, and you can make later another offer at market price. This its not going anywhere right now.

FTFY


See the problem with opening the trades (flood gates), is that traders going to undercut the IPO price and try to make a quick flip  ;D .

I bet you gotta wait until at least the second round finishes before they open up trading

I completely agree with you, thats what I was thinking. Because it will be tricky to do so at this stage. But I really doubt that people really are gonna commit to buying at 1mb, if this stage closes and they dont open the trades, or give any more information.

As far as I know the IPO is only sucessful if all 4 rounds are sold.

Four rounds!? I hope you're exaggerating

Excuse me for using the wrong terminology. I meant blocks instead of rounds.

So they could in theory just keep holding these blocks, and never let me trade?

If the IPO is unsuccessful they would give the money back, or it would be a scam.
But... we've been telling you from the start that this whole operation is shady at best, you didn't listen...

Yeah, the good old "discounted price" scam.

If you want to sell 100 shares of something at 1 BTC it works like this:

1.  Announce you're selling 200 shares worth 2 BTC.
2.  Announce the first 100 will be sold at half-price.
3.  Rush it so noone has time to ask questions if they want to get in on the 'bargain' - you don't want them noticing that not only are your projections based on unsubstantiated estimates of future profits but that your math doesn't even work out IF your assumptions were correct.  Nor do you want anyone worrying about little missing details like existing assets, historical accounts etc.

You get to sell what you wanted at the price you wanted - and if you're really lucky some idiots even pay the 'full' price.  It worked for quite a few securities on Bitfunder (obviously the last blocks never sold out but the issuers raised plenty of BTC for selling near-worthless junk).

+!, which makes me wonder, should I be selling everything I have and get out of Havelock securities altogether?  Because an IPO like this sure doesn't give me confidence in their exchange.

If I had any asset there, I would sell it to 0.
I only have a single share, though, so I can't really sell it, since its value is less than the minimum withdrawal :v

what if the asset you have has a direct share system in place as a bit of insurance against this exchange failing?

At his point, I wouldn't invest in anything that didn't have a direct shares system already in place.

Havelock has been pretty uncommunicative on this, pretty disappointing...

Can someone from Havelock please explain what will happen if the IPO is not fully subscribed? 

Seems pretty fraudulent if you either:
i. keep investor funds locked when the block sales are going nowhere, or
ii. stopped the rest of the subscription blocks, and allowed market trading of the shares already purchased (i.e. without fulfilling the terms of the prospectus by not selling all the tranches and screwing the initial investors by misleading them)

Convert it to direct, then.

Remember that Bitfunder operated as a fractional reserve, what's holding havelock from screwing up this too?

We get it you don't like Havelock. No reason to make up hypothetical situations. I don't understand how bitfunder could operate as a fractional reserve but ukyo.loan most likely did. And there is not a single shred of evidence that suggests Havelock is doing so.

Havelock and Bitfunder are different on so many levels it makes no sense to compare. Bitfunder was run by 1 guy in a country that clearly states that all securities/exchanges must be registered with SEC. Havelock is a team who has been running a legal operating exchange in panaman since 2008 merged with a bitcoin security exchange that has been operating smoothly for more than a year.

Part of being a registered exchange in panama is the requirement of $25,000 iirc and there are names attached to whoever registered The Panama Fund, SA. Unlike Bitfunder there is a physical location and contact numbers.

Again to this day we have no idea why bitfunder or even btct.co shut down as neither burnside or ukyo have clarified why.

Lolz.
No signs that Havelock was operating as a "fractional reserve"?
Havelock is trying to sell share in itself after purportedly being bough by  some doods in Panama.
And failing hard.

Re: "registered exchange in Panama"?  More lolz.  It's a registered Panamanian shelf company.
It costs more money and requires more documentation to register *a dog* in US.

Jimmothy, how much of this mystery bag did you buy? :D

 HIF IPO... more like HIV POS... better be covered when investing in it... haha...  ;D

FWIW, I've been to the offices many times.  It's not just a shelf corporation.  They are serious about building a solid and trustworthy business. 

I deal with leadership of The Panama Fund directly on a regular basis, and have been for awhile.  They're some of my best and largest customers.

Lol, OK ergfobe, your word's good enough for me.
Can i give you my money, and you can just drop it off at The Panama Fund next time you stop by their office?

This person is a trusted and established businessmen and has been a great customer to www.panamabitcoins.com, I vouch that he has the financial backing to be able to carry on this project.

I know you're trolling, but short answer, sure.  I'd be happy to hand deliver your BTC.  ::)

And who are you, what do you do, and why should we take your word for it? How do we know you are not just one of the Havelock guys trying to hype your stock under a sock-puppet account?

I'm not trolling if you're not trolling.  Care to share the address of the office you visit so often?  Or does this reputable multimillion dollar corporation wish to remain anonymous just like its friends, the other multimillion dollar corporations?

P.S:
The IPO failed.
No one was fooled.
The flippers got burnt.
Next.

You shouldn't take my word for it.  You should verify for yourself.  But since you're obviously not willing to make the effort, and seem content to sit here all day trolling, I guess you'll just have to take me at my word.

How do you suggest i should verify it?  Not that your word ain't plenty good enough 4 me, but for those doubters who aren't 100% convinced they should get in the van invest?

*This is the first multimillion i've dealt with that can't even afford decent socks.

I don't represent TPF, but they are my customer, so I'm more concerned with protecting their privacy than squelching your doubts.  However, the address he listed, in Tower A of the Torres de las Americas, in Punta Pacifica, Panama City, Republic of Panama is valid.  The information desk on the ground floor will be able to assist you -- but since it's a secure building, they will need to announce you to the office before granting you a visitors pass.  I suggest you show up in business casual attire, as that's the minimum standard here in Panama.

Hop on a plane.  Come to Panama.  Visit the office.  They've already invited you.  I don't think it could be spelled out any more clearly.

Calling me lazy because i'm not willing to book an international flight to visit a company that's not willing to post its address on the internet is pretty ballsy.  The address that you quoted is absurd.  Other companies leasing office space at that address provide their entire address, a quick google search will tell you that.  I suggest you stop bullshitting me, it's the minimum standard here in the US.

I founded Panama Bitcoins.  http://www.panamabitcoins.com.  You can check the whois records and verify we've been operating longer than Havelock or TPF have existed, so if there's a sock-puppet involved, then it would have to be the other way around.  We're the primary Bitcoin exchange in Panama.  We're no Bitstamp or Mt. Gox, but considering the entire population of Panama is only about 4 million, we're doing ok.

My business partner, vite, has also posted and vouched for TPF.  He's been on bitcointalk longer than I have, and has established his reputation on this forum.  If you can't trust me, maybe you can trust him.  

Also, neither of us have a -4 trust rating on bitcointalk, as opposed to yourself, so maybe you should justify why we (and the rest of the world too) shouldn't just discount you as a troll since you obviously have a negative reputation.

Your account is less than a year old.  The site you claim is yours is behind Whoisguard, so ... not interesting.
Regarding your trust rating reference:  Yours is no higher than mine, while TradeFortress blows both of us out of the water.  Go figure.

Torres de las Americas is a very large building.  There are a lot of businesses in there, and most of them do not publish their full addresses, if they publish ANY address.  Any high-finance organization would be wise to take additional security precautions against walk-in threats.  Setting up appointments, going through a proper vetting process, etc, are reasonable methods to protect the persons who hold the keys to large amounts of money.  If you held the keys to millions of dollars, and lived in an area where kidnappings are not uncommon, would you publish your name and address to the world?

Bitcoin has only been around for 4 years.  Just because I've only been part of the community for 25% of the life of Bitcoin doesn't mean I've been around less time than Havelock.  It's a new tech.  We're all new here.  But if you're going to claim that I'm a sock puppet, you should at least establish a timeline of who came first.

Not sure why you are wasting your time with that armchair sleuth/troll.

My neighborhood bank holds the keys to more money than your Panamanian shell will ever see, yet the branch manager gladly offers his business card when asked.  He also doesn't ask me to fly out to some God-forsaken crimeland as a part of my "due diligence."  If you can't even guarantee your own safety in that place where you live, why in the world would i want to visit you there, formally attired even?  You want me to get kidnapped or raped?!  Are you planning to harvest my kidneys as soon as i'm off the plane?
I don't think it would be wise to invest in a financial service operating under such lawless and dangerous conditions.  You should have told me to wear full body armor, not semi-formal dress >:(  

Just stop. You are making yourself look silly.

No, some of us aren't new here.  Some of us have new accounts, which by no means suggests we're new.  You have been on this forum far shorter than Havelock existed, though i may be wrong on that.  Am i?

Thanks for reminding me not to feed the trolls.. Fell into the quagmire a bit didn't I? :-[

Sorry jimmothy.  I understand that you're still hoping to flip your shares, and i feel just awful that this isn't helping.  But you have to understand that for you to sell, someone more clueless than you would have to buy.  I'm afraid my egalitarian streak is a mile wide, and i have compassion for those so badly cheated by genetics and Mother Nature.  I simply can't let you cheat them just because you feel cheated :(

Agreed. The company evaluation is what made me not invest. I don't think the company is worth the amount they evaluated but if the "50 projects in the pipeline" is true then I could be wrong.

In these parts, there hasn't *been* any success.
Go to the Havelock site.
Click on any security.
Click on "charts."
See any success?  
NO.  Not a single case.

*The registration & location are awfully handy when the guy who scammed you sez "OKBAI!" and your money is gone.
It goes to reason that scammers, unless they're made harmless by desperation or stupidity, prefer to give you neither.

I don't feel like finding the quote right now, but I seem to remember somebody saying TPF was founded in 2008? As in, before bitcoins were started? So how have you had a bitcoin exchange longer than bitcoin has been around?

With the high price of Bitcoin people it seems are more cautious than ever with what they invest in. That being said you will never get any guarantees especially for VC type investments. Bitcoin and any business trying to create a service based around it are still considered VC.

I have invested with Havelock for over 15 months now and never have had any issues with getting my BTC. On some funds I gained BTC, on some funds I lost BTC, but that is the free market at play especially for Bitcoin based VC!! They seem very professional and genuine in trying to provide a good site for trading. I can understand that some business information must remain private. If they simply stated all their prospective clients for 2014, then their competitors could simply approach those people and attempt to influence them.

Havelock already has tens of thousands of BTC of investors money in their funds. Obviously they already have a certain level of trust in the community. As to the valuation of Havelock for the IPO, people need to make their own determination and invest accordingly. At this point in time saying they are trying to create a scam with HIF is unproven and in my opinion slanderous.

Bernie Madoff knew many of the people he scammed very well. They knew his address. He was well trusted. That did not stop him from running a Ponzi scheme with their money. In total they lost Billions!! There are never guarantees.

I have never personally met any of the guys running Havelock, so the above is my assessment as a Venture Capital (VC) investor.

Ok, I can't speak to the date that TPF was founded.  I should have limited the scope of my statement to "older than havelockinvestments.com", since that's easily verifiable in whois.  I stand corrected.  

But it doesn't change the fact that I've been around long enough to have established myself as a legitimate operation -- even if a small one --  in the eyes of my customers.  Whether you trust me or the statements I've made is your problem..  I've simply added my voice to the mix, and confirmed that TPF does have an office at the address they provided, and that I have seen it, and that I have met and exchange Bitcoin with the leadership.  You don't know if you can trust me anymore than I know if I can trust you.  We don't trust anyone in common either that I'm aware of.

So, until you or someone you trust comes to Panama, you'll never know for sure if TPF is legitimate or not.  But until that happens, you should shut your pie hole and quit making claims you can't back up.  Claiming he's a fake because you can't be bothered to pay him a visit is trollish at best.  I or TPF or anyone else could just as easily say they live at 5114 Heather Drive, Welcome, Texas, 76953-3994, but until someone you trust goes there and knocks on the door, you can't verify that it's true OR FALSE.  It doesn't matter if he provides a complete, detailed address, or just instructions on how to get to the building and ask at the front desk, you're not going to know unless you verify it for yourself.

Here's how I see it, and *please* correct me if I'm wrong or if I missed anything, since most of what I know is based on U.S. regulations and I'm not sure how it translates to Panama.

Based on what I've read so far, there seems to be some confusion between the Havelock Exchange and the Havelock that we see now, since people are assuming they're the same thing.

The Havelock that acted as a securities exchange is technically no more. The business was sold to the Panama Fund, which took over all operational activities. Now, the legality of running an exchange is a bit murky for me, but I do know that in order to run it properly all securities hosted by the exchange must be abiding by rules and regulations of their jurisdictions, as well as where the exchange is located. In any case, achieving that is extremely hard to do as it is so complex and expensive, which I'm sure ties into why BitFunder and BTCT shut down.

To get around this, TPF restructured the operation as a Venture Capital Fund, which is much easier to set up to comply with regulations (at least here in the States). It allows them to work with a variety of businesses to raise capital, and they can open up investing to both accredited investors and "knowledgeable" investors.

In any case, the original owners we've grown accustomed to (Lightbox and his business partner) aren't the ones in charge anymore. HIF is playing out in somewhat the same way as CFIG, if anyone remembers how that went. If HIF is able to attract outside investors (outside of the Bitcoin community), then the fund may do well. Relying on raising capital from just the Bitcoin community requires quite a bit more transparency than what's been provided.

You have traded on Havelock for over 15 months.
Your account is half that age.
After a post in May, you disappear for 2 months from the forum, and when you return, almost all of your posts are white knighting Havelock, which you have not mentioned *once* before.
Could you offer a plausible backstory?

You've never bought yourself someone else's identity from hacked server? ;D

I have nothing against scamming, but these guys are just so ghetto about it.
Kids have to learn to take PRIDE in what they do >:(

Edit:  Just in case it's not common knowledge, aged user accounts are sold in this forum, no need to hack.  An account of that age is ~.001BTC.  The accounts are both cheap and available, openly advertised on this forum.
Buying and selling accounts is *not* against the forum's rules -- stated or unstated.

crumbs,

What I have said in my post is true. My past experience to date with Havelock has been positive. I have not been posting on this forum consistently because I have a life outside this forum and there was nothing much for me to comment on. Also, I live in Canada and the summer months are short so I do not waste too much time posting in the summer (IE July and August). If you have had a negative experience with Havelock then please give us some details about what you have experienced.

As Korbman said in his post, Havelock is now owned by TPF and is structured more as VC to get around the tight US securities rules. If you know of a better BTC securities exchange than Havelock, then please let us know what it is so that we can all go check it out!

Your user account never mentions Havelock until a two-month gap, at which point almost *every one of your posts shills Havelock*.
In different threads.  
In unrelated contexts.
Nothing but Havelock.  You could've throw in a few non-Havelock posts for variate's sake, but NO.  Havelock Havelock Havelock.
You're not even a talented amateur, dood.  You're an embarrassment to shills and socks everywhere.
You do know that your whole post history is right there for everyone to see, at a click of a button, right?
Buy another account, they're a dime a dozen.
Now GTFO. 

My user account does not mention Havelock until a few months ago because I have only used them since August 2012. I wanted to see how good the service they provided was before I would comment positively or negatively about them on the forum.

Yes I do like Havelock, you obviously do not. So what is your recommendation for a better investment firm for BTC based funds? I am always open to trying out other firms if they have something better to offer. You seemed to have glossed over this question in your response. Any suggestions?

Are ASICMINER shares on Havelock safe?

Yes. The passthrough is run by TAT who has been running passthroughs on every exchange. Even if havelock were to shut down the shares are backed by direct shares so it is definitely safe.

That's great to hear.  Do you know why they're so shady & vague with their information?

DefaultTrust means exactly ZERO.
Remember TF had a very high trust?

There is one BTC/LTC exchange about to open soon. Another BTC exchange opened recently. Perhaps someone is trying to pave the way for them by bashing the competition.

Crumbs is just trying too hard and it shows.

OHAI Herp.

Let me explain how this works:

When i post, i never ask anyone to trust me -- everything i say is verifiable and could be refuted if false.  I do not ask for money, and when money is offered to me by Havelock, i turn it down. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339417.msg3664824#msg3664824)

When Havelock & socks post, all they do is ask for money & ask you to trust them, while failing to offer any information, claiming that they might be KIDNAPPED if they did.

As far as "other exchanges" -- you mean shit like this?  https://mcxnow.com/

Protip:  If knowing that every exchange that ever existed in the BTC world turned out to be fail & AIDS makes you want to "invest," please do so.

To the rest:  Please read the entire thread before making a decision.

So while the IPO was successful, Havelock was posting actively. Now that they failed, you don't see a word from them, just from potential sock-puppets.

Why is there no clear information on what will happen now? Are they trying to find some loophole to just call it successful and move on?

(HIF) Open Market Orders will begin November 27th, 2013 @ 12 PM EST

Any future updates will be distributed exclusively through the HavelockInvestments.com website.

We would like to take this opportunity and thank the countless people from around the world that have placed their trust in us and supported our effort.

Thank you,

HavelockInvestments.com

lol.
gg!

My prediciton for HIF value as soon as open market order opens:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/down_graph-blog_thumbnail1.jpg

Simple, basic & expectable (since that's pretty much what happened with all other securities on HIF...)

RULE N°1: THE BEST INVESTMENT IN BITCOINS IS... BITCOINS! (and maybe some other cryptocurrencies...) ;D

That's a simple mecanical process as bitcoin value increase (and assuming it wont stop at least for now), assets' value delivered in bitcoin decrease to keep on matching approximatively its original price in fiat currency... pure logic

But good luck to HIF investors. They may need it :)

PS: i am not arguing  whether or not HIF is serious or legit, just saying that investing in bitcoin whilst no one knows WHEN & WHERE BTC price will stabilize is lost in advance if you are betting on an likely upward trend... If bitcoin falls we are all screwed anyway  ;D

I love how you gave me negative trust because you and I disagree that havelock is a scam. Let this be a lesson to everyone wanting to do business with you. The lesson being don't do business with or you face the risk of insults/negative trust from this troll.

Go troll and FUD elsewhere. Nobody here is buying it.

Yo, jimmothy, how those 50% discount shares working out 4 u?

So given that the IPO failed and they're going with it any way, it's save to say, it's a scam. If it were legit, they'd try another IPO at a more realistic evaluation.

What will happen with the remaining shares?

Quite the abuse of the trust system, Lohoris. The ignore button is what you're looking for - the trust system is for those who have had actual transactions.

People are so quick to use the word "scam", when they really mean "unattractive deal" or "over valued". Scam: fraudulent scheme to swindle money - aka, Labcoin. Overpriced: 5 BTC ASICMiner shares or perhaps this IPO. Would you have called the Facebook IPO a scam? Clearly havelock operates a business that generates revenue - if you have evidence that they are frauds, how about sharing that with us?

Whether or not this valuation is reasonable or not is for the market to decide, which happens in about 25 hours. Speculate away until then, but try and choose your words wisely since yelling scam everywhere just reduces the impact when actual fraud happens.

 
Everyone has their opinion and i guess people calling any IPO a "scam" refers to the lack of: 1/preparation 2/information 3/delays 4/bulletproof financial datas etc etc...

No doubt havelock are doing their best to provide a very useful service within the VERY small bitcoin community.. but still... how much was the IPO again? 60M$ worth of bitcoins?!

I guess a "scam" could then be referring to investing money in anything without fully understand what's in stake, being warned consequently or more generally trust the counterpart (which is also very subective but is nonetheless real).

It is not because you call someone a "fag" or "asshole" that he technically is.... but still...  ;D

Re: UR semantics herp-a-derp:  This is a clear case of securities fraud (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securities_fraud).
What's more, a well-conceived and executed scam never runs afoul of existing laws.  It is exactly this strict adherence to the letter of the law that differentiates a decent scam from this floundering pile of fail.

Not an abuse: if I don't trust you, I give you a negative feedback.
That's why it's called, you know, trust.
I don't trust you? Negative trust.
Easy.
Quit the OT, please.

I mean other exchanges that opened recently and another one that's about to open soon.

https://www.btcinve.com/
https://www.litecoininvest.com/

and Ciphertrade
https://forum.litecoin.net/index.php?topic=7176.0

This one isn't located in the US. Big difference. US proved to be most hostile country towards BTC so far. Those 2 exchanges received cease and desist letters from US authorities.

Source?

Afaik we have no idea why btct.co or bitfunder shut down. Although all things point towards SEC.

I think Burnside's posts (owner of btct.co and litecoinglobal) were pretty explicit in that sense. He made it pretty clear he was threatened by the authorities but didn't go into details. We know he was US based and so was Ukyo and his Bitfunder.

Shut down of btct.co and litecoinglobal worked almost perfectly for all the shareholders. Burnside has been very honest every step of the way. He auctioned the website code but not sure who bought it.

BTCT was registered in Belize, Bitfunder in Australia.  
I could register a corporation in Panama without ever touching foreign soil.
What you are talking about?
*Havelock, AFAIK, is a Canadian company -- i was invited to visit them at some semi-abandoned strip mall in Canada.

Guys running them were US citizens and US residents. That's what I'm talking about.

See my edit above.
Havelock is a Canadian company, it is no more Panamanian then BTCT was Belizean or Bitfunder Australian, unless you have dox to the contrary.
Do you?  

*If i ran an exchange, i'd certainly pay some guy with a net connection in some backwater country to front for me.

No crumbs you cannot become a registered exchange in panama unless you are a panama citizen with $25000 capital and can fill out the shitload of forms/deal with legal compliance.

Ukyo and burnside were US citizens running unregistered exchanges. If you can't see the difference between havelock and btct.co/bitfunder I'm afraid there is nothing we can do do convince you. Your mind is already made up and no amount of responding to your conspiracy theories will do anything.

I was talking about btct.co and Bitfunder.

However, things get complicated for everyone when it comes to accepting US investors. This is why many banks from Switzerland for example and many other places just refuse to take US customers these days.

See for eg Peter Schiff's bank http://europacbank.com/ See what disclaimer says there?

"This Website is intended for the use of NON United States or Eastern Caribbean States citizens or residents."

Again trying to mislead. Havelocks physical location has moved to panama and the team has merged with the new owners/team at tpf sa. You have no idea about these guys because you have never called them and learn about their operation. Instead you use google/internet sleuthing skills to create fud.

A registered exchange?  You were given a name of a Panamanian shelf company, not a registered exchange.  Why would i want to register an exchange if you're perfectly happy with a name of a (virtually free) shelf registration?   Who bleeds money like that to rope in a handful of suckers?

Private funds do exist. If you think its a shelf you should call them and ask about their operation. Surely you would find more proof than sitting on your ass internet sleuthing.

Not sure what point you're trying to make?  Havelock is selling unregistered securities to US persons, always has & will continue to in the future, AFAIK.

This is true and it is possible that the US tries to block or make havelock block us citizens but this doesn't mean they can force them to stop operations. Mega.co.nz is an example.

You really don't understand how IRL works, do you?  In a field where 100% of exchanges turned out to be scams, failed, lost money, or all of the above, the burden of proof is on the audacious f8cker with his hand out, not on me.
If you feel comfortable giving your money to strangers unless i conclusively prove that they're a fraud -- go all in.  I suspect you're already balls deep.

Havelock already lied to you about being legal.  What else do you need?
If you're US, invest.  They'll block you.  Good luck getting your coin.

Not sure Crumbs wants to be convinced here or that he cares for arguments. He's obviously a man with a mission putting too much time and effort into this. My guess is he's somehow connected to the guys who recently opened new exchanges or the ones about to open one soon. This is just a clever way to discredit Havelock so that those other exchanges can steal their business. It's as simple as that.

Lol, you're suggesting that i am a shill for another exchange?
There's no business to steal here.  
The IPO flopped.
NO REFUNDS :D :D :D :D
The trash you bought to flip will tank as soon as the market opens.
Enjoy your virtual shares -- you're unteachable and beyond help.

In case you haven't noticed I and many others are comfortable giving our money to strangers because if we didn't around 35000 btc worth of stocks would not be traded on their site.

I honestly don't understand why you are here. You spend so much time with your conspiracy theories that you could literally write an 500 page entire book filled with your nonsense. If you would take even 1/100th of that wasted time and called or tried contacting havelock to find more info but you don't.

You need to understand that literally everyone here understands the risks involved with the companies we invest in. Throughout the entire history of investing it has always been a gamble. Some like asicminer turn out to be huge successes and some fail. You need to stop telling everyone here that they are stupid because of the stocks we choose to invest in.

The bolded part above discredits you on so many levels. Litecoinglobal or btct.co weren't "scams". All investors were able to withdraw their money without any problems and received ample notice about the shutdown. Fact you're calling them scams makes the bulk of your arguments here null.

Just go get a job at McDonalds or something. You'll probably earn more than what those other exchanges are paying you to trash-talk Havelock.

See you consider yourself a teacher and the rest of us consider you annoying as fuck. We are choosing to invest in virtual securities.

Seriously just leave.

You're giving him too much credit. Crumbs is a troll, looking to incite a reaction - it doesn't matter if the arguments are factual, he just wants an argument. Notice that bright ugly yellow ignore button? It's not because people rate him insightful...

Normally have him ignored but he posts so much FUD that I am constantly seeing his posts quoted and feel the need to respond.

...
1.  In case you haven't noticed I and many others are comfortable giving our money to strangers because if we didn't around 35000 btc worth of stocks would not be traded on their site.

2.  I honestly don't understand why you are here. You spend so much time with your conspiracy theories that you could literally write an 500 page entire book filled with your nonsense. If you would take even 1/100th of that wasted time and called or tried contacting havelock to find more info but you don't.

3.  You need to understand that literally everyone here understands the risks involved with the companies we invest in. Throughout the entire history of investing it has always been a gamble. Some like asicminer turn out to be huge successes and some fail. You need to stop telling everyone here that they are stupid because of the stocks we choose to invest in.
[/quote]

1.  Nothing is trading on the site.  Trading is closed.

2.  I explained to you over and over again why i am here -- your inability to understand speaks volumes of your intelligence and/or failing memory.

3.  I understand that everyone who has invested in securities traded on Havelock has lost money.
Not a single stock is trading above the IPO price.
All your intrepid play pals would give their left nut to be able to turn back time & *uninvest*.  Too late, though.
I don't think i can save you.  I don't aim to.
You serve your role well as the tragic failure -- an example how horribly wrong things could go when stupidity & greed join forces.
Now go back to "investing."

Try again.  You either can't read, can't redact, let the buthurt get the best of you or all of the above. 
Please pay attention.

Those 2 I've mentioned didn't fail. Their business was booming and they were making tons of money. So if you wanna put them in that category, won't work either. They were forced to shutdown by US authorities, which have taken an unfriendly stance to Bitcoin. It comes as no surprise as their geopolitical enemies (Russia and China) are actively pushing BTC (Russia Today, CCTV) to weaken the USD.

Luckily, nothing i say relies on trust.  Everything is backed by verifiable facts.
Buying .01 BTC worth of accounts can paint your ignore button any color you wish -- no one cares enough about you to do it.
Simple.

Being shut down is a sign of success to you?  To most people, that represents *FAILURE*.
Raging about US authorities, geopolitical enemies, or the fate of the dollar is irrelevant to this thread, but if you must vent, go right ahead.

Was just explaining the context of their "failures". US pushes Bitcoin businesses out of the US, as many observers have noticed. Successful businesses like BTCT.co or Bitfunder were unfortunate casualties of this self-defeating behavior.

No seriously just leave.

You need to look up the definition of verifiable facts as you are confusing it with nonsense.

If you are not on here to invest and instead to just troll you need to get a life.

Are you suggesting a conspiracy theory whereby some devious bitcointalk member had it out for you and paid .01 BTC so that your ignore button changed color? ROFL. And I thought it was because you were an annoying troll - shows what I know.

If you're OK with losing coin because: unfair, you go ahead and invest.  And lose it.
I don't particularly care if my investment flops due to tyrannical governments, acts of God, or stupidity & crookedness of some CEO.
I'm interested in results.  If i know my investment is going to lose me money, no matter what the reason, i do not invest.
Consider trying that.

See how wrong you can be?  And that's why no one cares what color your ignore button is :)

Lol, no.  I can't let you dupe some n00bs into buying your failstock.  I just can't allow that -- my heart would break :'(

I don't have any BTC invested in HIF as I stated before I think that the company evaluation was too high.

Seriously just leave.

If you don't have any coin in this, and you think it's overpriced, what are *you* doing here? GTFO NAO!

OK, getting back to the topic: What happens now that the shares did not all sell? Will the company try to sell those unsold shares later? Will this affect the amount of shares held by the insiders?

LOL.

I find it hilarious that you think someone hired shills with established accounts ignore your account thus giving it a "commonly ignored" rating.

Ever think that it might be because you are annoying/ignorant?

Literally every time I see one of your comments I feel like I lose an IQ point from the nonsense.

I am assuming this means they don't expect all blocks to sell. Does it explicitly say all blocks must fully sell?

See, that is part of the problem, things like this should have been explicitly stated at the beginning.

That explains everything!  In this thread alone, you must've lost about 20, and i do remeber you spurging at me in a bunch of others.
So...  Single digits, huh?
Well, don't i feel guilty now...  You're special, Jimmothy, 'coz God don't make no junk. Amirite Champ?

edit:

Not sure why I continue yo feed the troll but just because I am not invested in havelock doesn't mean I don't use it which I happily do.

This is the last tine you get a response from me as it is not worth my or anyones time.

Back to the ignore list.

I agree that we should get an official statement about this but if it was never mentioned and instead only rumored it doesn't make sense to blame them. Not to mention this thread is filled with so much garbage I doubt havelock is going to take the time daily to wade through the fud and answer the legit questions.

Type as slowly as you think pl0x.  Take care to spelingz your stupid thoughts rightly >:(

reserved :)

Yes crumbs has been on quite the mission to hobble this IPO and slam Havelock. I honestly can say that I made some BTC by trading at Havelock over the past 15 months.

crumbs, you still have not given us a suggestion of a better exchange to trade BTC based securities on? I have asked several times now. If you have a recommendation I would like to check out the competition!!

Lol, have the decency to buy a new account :D
Regardless, i'll answer your questions, even though they've already been answered in this thread before:

1.  Many here can honestly say they made money trading Labcoin and other scams.  A broken clock only tells correct time twice a day, but you can make money on a scam day in & day out.  All that's required is a steady supply of grater fools.

2.  After i tell you not to "invest" in this Three-Card Monte game, you repeatedly asked which Three-Card Monte game i would recommend.  To be painfully explicit:  I would not recommend investing in *any*.  I haven't answered you directly out of politeness, assuming no sane person would ask something that stupid.
Now stop asking idiotic questions & shitting up this thread pl0x.

There is not much else I can do to convince you that my account is genuine, but none-the-less that is not the issue. Thank you for your response.

I partially agree with you in that newbies just getting into Bitcoin should not be buying BTC funds, unless they were bonds something like XBOND, which unfortunately is no longer available. Mining shares should be treated with caution as even though the Network hash rate has somewhat stabilized it could quickly double or triple in the near future as new chips are available. Other Funds for new ventures require that VC investors should do their own research and invest accordingly.

Bitcoin itself will become more valuable as more businesses are created that utilize it in new ways and also that help provide links to the traditional banking system. This is where the VC funded businesses come into play. VC investors take more risk to get these businesses started. Right now we are seeing much more gain in Bitcoin itself, but I believe that will slow down (sometime in the future) and that some of the successful VC businesses will start to really pay off.

I do however strongly believe that Havelock is genuinely trying to vet and offer the best VC funds and also provide access to the best mining based funds that the market desired. I also believe that they are genuinely trying to run the HMF mining fund in the best way possible to balance between buying new equipment and paying dividends. You suggest they are trying to outright scam everyone and I do not believe that to be true based on my experience.

I can understand someone simply trying to help the newbies. Factual based explanations rather than vicious straw-man attacks would further your cause. I sincerely hope you did not lose too much money (BTC) that you have become this bitter.

Pax Vobiscum

Crumbs is an insignificant troll.... best ignored.

great start to the IPO on havelock.

HIF last trade ฿0.00015100 - down nearly 80%

Lol, Et cum spiritu tuo, u goofball.  How's that tradin' going?  Rhetorical question, i'm sure you don't guzzle your own Kool-Aid, but imagine if someone actually bough... nah, no one's that stupid :D :D :D

I guess the quarterly dividend is pulling the price down, this is bitcoin, we are used to in daily and weekly payouts.

Actually he just states correct facts, and get trolled in return...
You've labeled troll the wrong user...

GTFO troll. Go abuse the trust system more when people disagre with your FUD. Nobody is buying you or crumbs BS.

It wasn't the best ipo but price of last trade has risen to .0005  today

Havelock used their funds from the IPO to buy everything below IPO share price?

We'll see if the price holds. That is a possible conspiracy theory though.

This is trading on their own exchange, there is nobody else who could check to see if they were doing something like that.

"They" do not want those shares at any price.  The shares are over-valuated by such a huge factor that buying them at less than 99% discount is simply absurd.

Lowbrow Scamming 101:
Let the mark feel smart, let him think through every possible way you could shortchange him.
Don't shortchange him -- just walk away with all of his money.

It is hard to keep track of everything going on around here, but with VTX delisting, and "mining companies" turning out to be scams, even though a couple new listings have gone up, the total number of listed funds has remained pretty much constant. How is this company supposed to grow and make the money projected in the prospectus if they lose business as fast as they get it new?

I still think the IPO was vastly overpriced.

"Vastly" is an understatement.
I'm not even sure how many orders of magnitude it was off...

This may have been covered in a past comment, but Id rather not sift through thread after thread of irrelevant bitching and complaining. Is there any word on when the first dividends are to be paid out? The prospectus states quarterly, so I would have assumed Jan 1 would have been the first payout. Am I missing something?

Hello kuikmaa,

Dividends are paid on a Quarterly basis. The first Full Quarter will be the 1st Quarter of 2014 03/31/2014.

It will also include income from the month of December 2013, which was the First Full month after the issuance of the Fund.

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

Great, thanks for your quick reply!

Any good way of getting ahold of havelock support, specifically the issuer department?

I submitted all the required documents for my asset (RentalStarter) last Monday and haven't heard since. Prior to that time email response was very rapid from their compliance department.

Called once, they said someone would call me within the next day (This was Monday). Called again today, got voicemail.

Our Finance Department has contacted you.

Good Luck!

Havelock Investments

Wow, the NEO&Bee launch has driven some stocks higher, especially HIF :)

It is still overpriced, the price will go back down when this hype recedes.

The Panama Fund was formed in March of 2008, and it has never been registered as an exchange in Panama with either the SMV or its predecessor.  It is beyond me how you can remember two very specific things that simply did not happen. 

"The acquisitions creates the world's first, fully licensed, Bitcoin Denominated Fund Exchange, where companies from around the world will be able to raise capital directly, through the exclusive use of Bitcoins. "

Oh, well, if their website says it, it must be true!  Nobody can lie on the internet!  Except, apparently, Panama's SMV, which doesn't list them as one of the precisely two registered exchanges http://www.conaval.gob.pa/files/informacion_al_inversionista/InfoMer_Org_Auto.pdf (http://www.conaval.gob.pa/files/informacion_al_inversionista/InfoMer_Org_Auto.pdf).  That also explains your made-up date.

http://www.supervalores.gob.pa/files/Sociedades/Sociedades_Inversion_Privada_DRA.pdf

Date was not made up but incorrectly remembered. (Hence the iirc)

It is made up, because that's not when they registered as an exchange, that's when they registered as a private investment company.  Whats a private investment company?  I believe Article 134 of Panama's Law Decree 1 of 1999 has the answer http://www.legalinfo-panama.com/legislacion/comercial/dl11999.pdf (http://www.legalinfo-panama.com/legislacion/comercial/dl11999.pdf):



For those with a little less experience with Panamanian legalese, or Spanish altogether, this says that a private investment company, by definition, must 1) limited the number of beneficial owners of its shares to fifty or prohibit public offers of interest, and 2) all non-accredited beneficial owners must invest at least $100,000 in value each.  

Doesn't sound much like an exchange to me.

Edit: Changed a "the" to "they".

You are right. I was wrong to state that they were a registered exchange.

They are however a registered investment firm which has to count for something.

Maybe havelock can clarify the legality of running a btc denominated security exchange under the panama fund.

There are very few obligations on registered private investment firms because only investment professionals and the super-rich are allowed to invest.  I would love for them to clarify, I've been trying to get them to for nearly a week, but their answers are extremely evasive.  As of today they claimed I was talking to a customer service rep, and from now on they'll give me answers from legal.  We'll see how that goes.  I wouldn't harass them so much if it weren't for the fact that they claim to be compliant.  Most of the investments here are pretty shady and clearly unlawful, and if consenting adults want to take the risk with their money, they should be able to, but Havelock has put a ton of effort into appearing to comply with the law.  That seems less like a free market and more like fraud to me. 

They can.  They won't.  In the land of the blind, the guy who claims to have one eye is king.

thx for the investigation btw.
cant wait for more precision from Havelock

Man this thread is quite dead, anyways any plans on a report anytime soon ?

Fair enough point last HIF was 2013-11-19 think its quarterly dividends

Soonish...

31/03/2014

Havelock's as solid as a Panamanian bitcoin exchange.
+1 would def. trade again!
(do COG and NEOBEE still pay fees?)

Whats up with the HIF dividends? Shouldnt they be paid soonish? I can't see any announcement on them so far...

The first Quarter ends Today 03/31/2014.

A Financial Report will be released within 10 business days reflecting the P&L of the past quarter.

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

Great. Thanks for the quick reply and good service.

Roger thanks for the heads up

Several of the funds listed on the Havelock website publish reports/updates on a monthly basis, such as CBTC, HMF, and KCIM. BDD reports daily! I commend their managements for their professionalism.   I think that it's important for the company to issue monthly reports for the Havelock Investments Fund, just as they already do for their Havelock Mining Fund.  It's now been almost 6 months since the first listing of the fund back in November 2013.  They indicate that they will issue their first report presumably 10 business days from 3/31, which would be April 14.  Why this news blackout?

I am investor in HIF.  If the fund has nothing to report on a monthly basis that suggests to me that what news there is, is probably bad for investors.    The fund's success depends on some basic metrics such as the # of funds, trading volume, monthly fees charged to funds, and # of new funds in the pipeline.  These are all listed and explained in the Prospectus.  The monthly reports I want should update this data on a monthly basis.  It's not that hard to do. If the actual results are not as favorable as the assumed results mentioned in the Prospectus, the sooner I know about any gap the better.  Havelock should set the standard for communicating to its investors proactively, and not be one of the worst funds in terms of disclosure.

I won't be making any additional investments in HIF until a clear and timely communication policy is formulated, communicated to investors, and actually implemented consistently (monthly at least).  We DO have a right to know!

Yeah, just like their IPO (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339417.0), right?

The HIF Fund P&L is based on revenue streams detailed in our prospectus. Anyone can see how many funds we have and how much volume they have. Our fees are public information.  This is our first full quarter which just ended 3/31. We do appreciate your support, however we are not a casino or a mining operation. Thank you.

Is NEOBBQ paying fees now that it's trading again, or are you lettin' it slide?

I know very well that Havelock is neither a casino nor a mining operation.  You are a financial services company.  It's not possible for your investors to know what the number of funds listed is (who pay a monthly fee!) nor the number of funds in the pipeline unless you disclose this information.  A key part of your Prospectus makes clear that growth in a vital part of your plans, and I want to know how the actual results you have experienced in this first quarter compare with the projections you made in the Prospectus.

The whole reason I bring this up is that I tried to develop a spreadsheet model of your revenues and expenses.  I have a good handle on the expenses assuming that the Prospectus projections are accurate.  But I simply can't generate any monthly (or quarterly) revenue projections because they depend on information that Havelock is yet to publicly disclose.  Come on --this is a whole week after Q1 ended, and if several of your existing funds issue monthly reports--including HMF--then so can HIF.  Havelock can and should be a best practices  model for the funds you manage, especially in the communications department.

I do hope that when the first quarterly report is distributed your investors get this detailed information.  We need it to make informed decisions about our investment in HIF.  And since we trade much more frequently than quarterly, I believe that monthly updates from Havelock  are important.  Thank you!

+1

I too have found it impossible to make any kind of projections based on the information available. Im also still waiting on the dividend payout. I explicitly asked when the first dividends will be paid, and was answered with

"Hello kuikmaa,

Dividends are paid on a Quarterly basis. The first Full Quarter will be the 1st Quarter of 2014 03/31/2014.

It will also include income from the month of December 2013, which was the First Full month after the issuance of the Fund.

Thank you,

Havelock Investments"

which led me to believe they would be paid out on the 1st, not up to 2 weeks later. Will these dividends include the first 2 weeks of March now? Where is the regulation?

Not trying to put out negative vibes, but just gonna point out the obvious that any problems with this fund could have big impacts on the site and all the funds listed.  I guess by the end of April we'll have a good idea of where Havelock really stands?  That's worth 10 bucks in shares.

Will the dividends be paid out at the time of the financial report (which was promised to be released within the next 2 business days)?

Report should be out tomorrow at the latest!

CPA doing a final review at the moment.

Thank you for your patience.

Havelock Investments

I thought the deadline was the 10th? Which means it should be out today!

10 Business Days (14th)

I think were all getting a little too impatient here.  :D

Can't wait to see the stats.  ;)

Dividend value is posted (albeit incredibly disappointing), but I have not had received any bitcoin to my account.

Also, there is nothing in the report outlining what the "expenses" are made up of.

+1. The report is useless. Try harder, please.

Why is the report in this weird landscape format, like it was made in powerpoint?

P&L is a good start, but why no balance sheet?

Haha, it definitely was made in powerpoint. What a joke, an additional 10 day wait for a 6 slide powerpoint full of useless information.

Please also note, theyve given "owner" permission to the document, so only HIF shareholders can view the doc. After I rid myself of the useless shares, I can no longer see it. Hopefully future buyers have enough sense to check out the fund here before buying

It was a very disappointing Quarter. Especially for us. This is only the first quarter in a company that is only starting to grow in an uncertain crypto economy.

We appreciate your support and patience and we hope you understand the growing pains that we must go through being a Bitcoin based business that relies heavily on Bitcoin as a measurement of our success or failure.

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

we really should consider seriously about that.

Oh, I didn't even notice that, and that's also odd (not sure if they did it by accident or if was intentional).

To those wishing to view the report: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxnW49twNMNbX0tic1N6VVpaV28/edit?usp=sharing

did you buy cocaine and whores with the 180BTC? honestly, how can you pay that much and for what? the lack of transparency is the shit... I recommend everyone to stay away from havelock, even doing faucets (which are for free) yield more + they pay hourly/daily or whatever.

In comparing the actual figures reported for this 4-month period with those projected in the Prospectus, the projected profit for the year is 5,870 BTC/year.  Dividing by 12 to get a monthly average and then multiplying by 4 for this initial reporting period, the profit was projected to be 1,956 BTC and was actually only 37 BTC.  This miss of 1,919 BTC when priced at $425 (US) is about $816,000!  Havelock, you simply have to do a much better job reporting and explaining these results.  This report won't do.  Simply unacceptable.  Not gonna happen to me again because I will sell out completely within three months unless you give us the detailed information YOU PROMISED in the November Prospectus.  I urge you to rethink this failed communication strategy and do what you should have done in the first place.  Specifically, I want you to amend these vague figures so that your MONTHLY  income statement looks like this:

Revenues:  From Prospectus
>>Listing Fees
>>Maintenance Fees
>>Exchange Fees
>>     Total Revenues

Expenses:  From Prospectus
>>Office
>>Law
>>Accounting
>>Compliance
>>Miscellaneous
>>     Total Expenses

You do report the monthly totals, so we have 8 of the 32 figures we need.  That is 25% of the level of detail which I think you should provide.  Remember, those categories listed above are taken DIRECTLY FROM YOUR OWN PROSPECTUS!!!  I note that today's market price for HIF is .00015, and the estimated figure provided in the prospectus was .00066--23% ratio.  Could these two numbers be connected??????????

You need to also improve management's discussion of these results so you can answer some basic questions like:
Why is Feb revenue less than Jan, and March less than Feb?  Is this revenue slide temporary, or is it likely to continue?  Which revenue item is so much lower than you expected and why?  Monthly expenses for Feb/Mar are more than twice as high as they  were for the Dec/Jan period.  What expense item is so out-of-control as to cause this trend?  Will the trend of increasing expenses continue?

I realize that Havelock management will probably ignore my suggestions.  Do so at your peril.  I have close to US$10k invested in all HL funds, and I am so disgusted by this pathetic attempt to "communicate" with us I am sorely tempted to just cash out at a huge (US tax deductible) loss and move my funds elsewhere.  I'm not angry because the financial results are so much worse than projected in the Prospectus.  I'm angry because you have a clear and now articulated policy of WITHHOLDING  data from the very people you need most to thrive--your investors. 

I had 3500 HIF units. I was lucky enough to see the posted report before the email, and got out at a measily average of .0003 , didnt even bother waiting for the dividend payout. My 4 months of waiting for dividends gained me an incredible 77 cents Canadian! Bazooka Joe, here I come!

The absurdities of Havelock's self-valuation ($60 million at IPO time) and projected earnings -- both were pointed out on the first pages of this thread.

Thanks should have checked here first bought 1 share to check it out felt like Steve Jobs with his 1 share of apple :)
And projections were so far off the order of magnitude that it was pretty obvious.

Projected Revenue ฿7,870
 Projected Expenses --฿2,000__
 Net Profits ฿5,870

Estimate likely for year at 128 BTC ish

We do understand that the projection did not meet the actual revenues.

The prospectus was written at the time when BTC was on a 30 days average of ~$100-150 USD. When BTC went to $1,000 that naturally drove the volume and prices of many of our Funds down.

We projected 2500 BTC for the first Quarter @ ~$100/BTC... We had revenues of 216 Bitcoins with BTC ~$1,000

So Dollar to Bitcoin we operated close to projections.

Cheers,

Havelock Investments

By that same logic, you've projected 2000 BTC, or $200,000 @ ~$100/BTC for the year's expenses.  This quarter's expenses were 179 BTC, or $179,000 @ ~$1000/BTC.  Unless you pay most of your bills once a year and did so in the first quarter, I'd say you're a little off on this projection.

Whoooaa, whoa, whoa. Wait a minute.

If I'm reading this correctly, then you're saying that the BTC/USD price has a substantial impact on how your overall revenue and expenses play out (which is understandable). However, this fund started late November, after the price was already spiking well past $500 per coin.

At no point did you think it may be wise to revise projections based on the new prices? At no point did you think it may be in the investors best interest to advise them of such variables, or at least mention that a rising BTC price can lead to lower predicted revenue?
Now the question becomes, did the Panama Fund know how the impact of a rising BTC/USD price (and subsequent stabilization) would effect their business, but withheld that information from the public anyway, ultimately preventing them from any true due diligence when purchasing shares?

I'm no expert in securities law, but I reckon this is a dangerous game you're playing, even in Panama.


BTC was over $1000 for all of 3 weeks or so, and since then the 6 month weighted average has been ~$587. So, your 216BTC in actual revenue is somehow equal to 1267.92BTC...but still half of your projection (granted there haven't been weekly IPOs and the trading volume has been lower).

If Bitcoin spikes up to $10,000 per coin, then that would mean earning 25BTC in revenue is the same as 2500BTC @ $100, right?


To the Havelock Team - Sorry to be harsh, but these are some serious concerns, especially since you're supposed to be the leading Bitcoin-based securities exchange.  :-\

I made a more impressive slideshow on Prezi for a 5-minute speech on Paypal.


I kinda feel like biting my tongue but this is just not a good sign for the fund or the website. 

Again, whoever is writing the Havelock response to these legitimate and IMPORTANT concerns is more than a little tone-deaf, and in my estimation you are proving that every time you ignore, duck, try to rationalize, and in some cases just fabricate a non-answer you show that Havelock either doesn't KNOW how to communicate honestly and effectively with its investor base or, worse, you just don't CARE.  But I do--it's my cash on the line with this investment!  We are not nearly as dumb as you seem to think we are--we follow the Bitcoin markets too.

The relationship between Havelock's revenue and expense streams and the US dollar is NOT mentioned in your Prospectus, either as a risk factor or anywhere else.  If you think it is please cite the page and paragraph in your Prospectus where you discuss this connection, because I can't find it.  The only factor which is relevant is that you state that your growth and investor demand for your services is important.  I have absolutely no way of knowing from your first quarterly report how, or even if, HIF is seeing any real growth.  It seems not.  Investor demand for your services (funds) is going to dry up real quick if you don't do a much better job communicating openly and honestly with us.  Immediately.

I compared Havelock's daily total 24-hour volume in BTC for the past six weeks (February 22 to April 10) to the US$ price of Bitcoin.  The correlation coefficient is 0.13 and insignificant, which means that there IS no demonstrated relationship between these two data series.  Your last lame explanation is simply wrong--whatever problems HIF is having with sales or expenses has nothing to do with the US$ price.  You have failed to answer every one of the "trend" questions I posed earlier, but they won't go away just because Havelock is choosing to ignore them.

I know that startups are very risky, and I expected this investment to have some unanticipated problems.  But I never thought that the sponsor--Havelock--would itself become one of the worst risk factors by deliberately failing to supply important information and in some cases actually obfuscating its own message.  I actually believed that you would follow   the communication model set by your sister fund, HMF,  with monthly reporting.  Any way to get the manager for HMF to assume responsibility for communicating with HIF investors?????????  We would all be better off. 

Lots of good questions in this thread, I hope Havelock answers them, else the share price will continue to tank. But what do they care, they already got the investor money? However, if the questions are not addressed, people will remove their capital from the platform and all funds listed there will suffer.


I hear MPOE-PR is out a job, she has experience communicating with investors   ;D

Havelock has been operating at a loss for the last two months, kindly consult our financial statement.
If participating fund issuers wish Havelock to continue offering its services, said issuers should spring for expenses.  Themselves.  Havelock's tired of supporting freeloaders.

Enough of this entitled bullshit.  One more finicky complaint and Havelock *will* pull the server plug.
Panama's not Communist Russia, we ain't running no charity >:(

People are so huffy *because* Havelock has been operating at a loss for the last two months. And because there's no explanation of where the money went, aside from "Expenses".

Investors in Havelock funds are the ones running charities ;)

Havelock, a 100,000BTC corporation, offered this fund as a gift to you, the [ungrateful, vindictive and nitpicking] Bitcoin community.
Lesson learned.  No more presents.

so havelock was simply bagholding the bitcoins and not working with them? what a great investment fund management. Did i invest into a schoolkids venture or something? how lazy are you guys? Very shady fund.

oh wait i shall be happy over a 37 sat dividend for which i paid .005? are you kidding me or are you on drugs? your lack of understanding and communication is just fabulous.

Well, technically, if 1 single share is cheap, you could buy 1 share in order to have access to that document.

Much true, many people pointed that out, and many unwise people just ignored those big warnings and bought into this scam.

Lol, +1.

Obvious scam is obvious.

You should stop trading on their exchange and giving them money

lmao this is what i call an "i dont give a fuck" statement. neat. ;D