Bitcoin Forum

UPDATE 1: WoodCollector creates a hate thread in order to intimidate me into silence. He will post his evidence "soon": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=931109.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=931109.0)

UPDATE 2: A carver with 40 years of experience calls bullshit: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=930649.msg10223017#msg10223017 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=930649.msg10223017#msg10223017)

UPDATE 3: Several pieces are found to be using stolen artwork: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=930649.msg10226824#msg10226824 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=930649.msg10226824#msg10226824)

UPDATE 4: IMPORTANT: I have received PMs indicating that WoodCollector is contacting his customers privately, and attempting to extort more money out of them by claiming that he will provide them with video proof once they pay their outstanding balance. I urge any customers who have not paid in full to not give this scammer any more of your money as he runs out the door.

UPDATE 5: Thread where WoodCollector attempts to recruit paid shills to push his phony wares: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=915488.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=915488.0)

UPDATE 6: Thread where our Master Carver is tired of making $10 million a year, and is interested in a much more lucrative career operating a dark market website selling marijuana paraphernalia: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=884265.msg9753499#msg9753499 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=884265.msg9753499#msg9753499).

UPDATE 7: More stolen artwork: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=930649.msg10235300#msg10235300 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=930649.msg10235300#msg10235300)

UPDATE 8: WoodCollector resorts to using homophobic slurs to silence his detractors: https://i.imgur.com/DWQ8trs.png (https://i.imgur.com/DWQ8trs.png)

UPDATE 9: Several of WoodCarver's customers have PMed me stating that they realize they were ripped off for hundreds/thousands of dollars, but are currently too afraid to come forward for fear their personal information will be released.

UPDATE 10: A South African resident calls bullshit on everything WC has stated about his woods, with links to back it up. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=864472.msg10237658#msg10237658 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=864472.msg10237658#msg10237658)

UPDATE 11: WoodCollector locks both of his hate threads against me, after posting screenshots of him uploading a proof video. The screenshots turn out to be bogus: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=930649.msg10239877#msg10239877 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=930649.msg10239877#msg10239877)

UPDATE 12: WoodCollector can't figure out how to engrave straight lines onto wood with his laser engraver on November 29, 2014: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=877143.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=877143.0)

FINAL UPDATE: WoodCollector finally shares his video proof. It is a video of WoodCollector using a Dremel rotary tool to damage a piece of wood that he has laser engraved a design into. Note that the wood is already completely engraved when the piece is first shown! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=935115.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=935115.0)

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WoodCollector (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=392383)'s pieces truly are beautiful, but I believe he's SERIOUSLY misrepresenting himself as being a "master carver" and that his pieces are "carved by hand". It's too bad, because if he was honest about his production methods, people would still buy his products. They'd just know what they were paying for.

Reasons why I think WoodCollector is full of shit:

He claims to be a master wood carver, showing off insanely detailed "hand-carved" pieces:

https://i.imgur.com/5Sv5ANS.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/CyjjAMw.jpg

But all of his "carvings" are impossibly perfect -- just as perfect as a laser etching tool.

Okay, well, maybe he's just that good at carving. After all, he's a master right?

But if he's so good at carving, why can't he cut shapes? Why doesn't he care that his BTC logo shapes are terribly deformed?

Look at the top two legs, as well as the inside cut-outs:
https://i.imgur.com/p8JvLSR.png

Here's another bad cut:
https://i.imgur.com/K41U5ow.png

If he's so good at carving, why do all of his carvings have only two levels of height, as a laser cutter would produce, instead of varying height like hand tools would produce?

Check out the obvious difference in quality between the cutting of the shape and the engraving:
https://i.imgur.com/HILYArv.jpg

Here's an outlined version. Notice how the verticals do not line up, and are not even the same width.
https://i.imgur.com/5eMfdSW.jpg

He obviously has a laser cutter, as evidenced by these perfectly-rendered logos:

https://i.imgur.com/3W05uQS.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8G17fJl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/e1b0wCC.jpg

Laser cutters also etch wood to a consistent depth, like WC's pieces, whereas a hand-carved relief piece would have a varying height in the flat part.

He claims to be a MASTER CARVER making $10 million a year, but spends 130+ hours working at $18/hr because he "just loves bitcoin so much".

His normal rate is $450-800/hr.

His normal rate is $3,000/hr.

Yes, a MASTER CARVER who normally earns $450 (or is it $800 (or is it $3,000)) per hour is willing to make Butterfly Labs dildos for $18/hr.

Because he loves bitcoin so much, he makes BITCOIN THEMED DILDOS.

For 0.6% of his regular wage.

Yes, a MASTER CARVER who makes three thousand dollars FOR ONE HOUR OF WORK needs to take out a thousand-dollar loan to buy a new lathe:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=871938.msg10191336#msg10191336 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=871938.msg10191336#msg10191336)

WoodCollector, I hereby CHARGE YOU with MISREPRESENTATION of the first degree, and REQUEST the following in order to disprove my theory:

-pictures of your carving tools
-video of you carving a coin with your tools
-name of the master artisan you studied under, and in which country he is located

My apologies to anyone who purchased one of WoodCollector's pieces -- hopefully you bought it because you like it, not because it was "carved by hand" by a "master".

FINAL STATUS: WoodCollector has proven, without a doubt, his artistic skill.

Why question something that is good?  :-[

Interesting challenge, looking forward to the response  :o


Because some people have paid up to $14,000 for the end results.

Knew nothing about wood laser engraving but have to admit the end results look very similar -

https://i.imgur.com/47mEBVQ.jpg

This. And because I am an actual artisan (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=756955.0;all), and it upsets me to see people claiming to be artisans -- and charging artisan prices -- when they're amateurs producing sub-par work.

He's a great *artist* and *designer*, sure... as long as those designs are his. That's where his skill ends.

you would think the inside would be etched also and not left looking so scruffy

https://i.imgur.com/HILYArv.jpg

I don't think you can etch the inside edges with a laser, so that's probably why they're not etched.

that's actually what i was meaning, by hand you could get in there and have them looking much nicer. shame to see...

Smoking gun, agreed.
A real carver would have at least filed down those corners.

Things worth considering at this point:

Some forum members have paid well over ten thousand dollars for some of these pieces. Given that they purchased the pieces under the impression that they were hand-carved, this appears to be a clear-cut case of fraud.

As a non-American, I'm not quite sure, but does this count as a "felony"? (We don't classify crimes this way in Canada)

I wonder does WC have import permits for the exotic woods he uses?

looking at this one closely for a couple of minutes, the design of the lions is just to damn symmetrical

https://i.imgur.com/5Sv5ANS.jpg

Symmetry is fine, I'd expect a carver to draw the outline with a pencil before beginning.

How about these impossibly fine details... I wonder what sort of chisels you'd use for those tiny serifs?!

https://i.imgur.com/evCS8Qc.jpg

One last illustrative photo before we wait for WC's response (he's online now).

https://i.imgur.com/5eMfdSW.jpg

Ouch ::)

How many times you look at it. It was clearly carve by a 40 to 60 watts co2 laser. If he have a more powerful laser he could have cut the edge using the laser not by a saw.

Aw, Did we find another Buttcoiner?

Sure, i'll Humor you for a few minutes, then i am moving on with my day until you try and come up with some other reason why i am a scammer? is it, or a fraud?

Here we go.....

https://i.imgur.com/K0g0N4kl.jpg

^This tool is called a gouge, it is used for making fingernail cuts like this if you need an example (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5nVwXHYEm4)

https://i.imgur.com/yDVJaHJl.jpg

^ This is another Gouge, this one is used for making deeper cuts and clearing out larger amounts of wood.

https://i.imgur.com/MS5bMRHl.jpg

^This tool is called a Skew, i am sure you can use google to find out what it does.

https://i.imgur.com/kgRE0m3l.jpg

^This is a large gouge

https://i.imgur.com/2qlGWgJl.jpg

^This is a large Skew

https://i.imgur.com/lwbpukBl.jpg

^ This is a scraper. Can you guess what it does?

https://i.imgur.com/rxhE5a6l.jpg

^This is a "set" of tools, Set means multiple tools belonging together. I can link the dictionary definition if you would like.

https://i.imgur.com/e1pQUYCl.jpg

^ This is a carvers rotary tool, any idea what that does?

https://i.imgur.com/FdnMKY5l.jpg

^ This is an engraving burr, that is how the "tiny serifs" are made  :-*

https://i.imgur.com/sNGIGael.jpg

^ These are wood SHAVINGS, notice they are larger than sawdust, this is what happens when you put a skew to a piece of wood and apply pressure

https://i.imgur.com/loeQXktl.jpg

^ This is a wood lathe, this is how i take square things and make them round.

Now, what else.......


Oh yeah,
Wait i thought i did these on a machine? doesnt that mean the corners would be absolutely perfect? Or could it be that i INTENTIONALLY left them not true round? Might make it harder to replicate that way you think? Wait dumb question, you hypothesize not think.


Awww, thanks, one minute your telling me i am a fraud, then your telling me that its because my work has symmetry? Seems your reaching quite a bit here, be careful you might fall off that conspiracy ledge.


You are claiming to be an artisin silkscreener? never new there was such a thing. In that case, i am also an ARTISAN dishwasher, well when my wife is mad anyways. Oh and an Artisan snow shoveler as i have decades of experience with that too. I mean, as long as we are making up names for professions.

What else before i go get some work done and leave you to conspire to yourself.

Oh yeah the loan. I bought $80k in new tools and machines last year, my wife was a little pissy when i said i was going to buy a new lathe so i could turn a few larger objects for the bitcoin community, I have more tools than i have room as is. She said that if i wanted a new lathe i could sell enough pieces to the community to buy it or wait until after january so we could write it off on the 2015 taxes. You missed the part where it was a $10,000 lathe and 2BTC was barley $1k at the time, It was duca's way of helping out.

Anyways, i have work to do, i may swing in later to play this dumb game with you some more

https://i.imgur.com/5eMfdSW.jpg

You did this shit job on PURPOSE?


Well, I guess you know now. I suppose this will be the first of several personal attacks.


You make $10 million a year and your wife is pissed because you wanted to spend $10k on tools for your profession? Sounds legit.


Waiting with bated breath. Hopefully next time you'll show us pictures of a work in process, not some brand-new tools laying around in a shop and an image of an "in-progress" piece so dark you can't tell if there's anything carved into it.

i apologies, i know nothing about wood carving, be that by hand or machine. I just thought you would finish up the insides, it looks quite scruffy and unfinished, which i thought was a shame to see. The symmetry comment is again down to my complete lack of knowledge of wood carving, it's so good i could see it being machine done, kudos to you indeed if done by hand.

Nubbins, there is no personal attack, well, you attacking me without cause beyond your wild accusations. I really dont have time for you, i have met people like you before, i post pictures, "there too dark" i'll go make a video, then it will be the accusations that its photoshoped or something, i'll go do this, then you'll have that to say. I'm not a fool by any means, every great man has a few detractors, Like i have said before.

"Those who can, DO, and make good money for it, Those who cant, Start scam accusation threads so they feel important too."

When one of my clients, someone who is paying me, wants something, i will give them the proof the request. You, well, your just another detractor who is mad because you cannot do it yourself.

I am not wasting any more of my time on this, when one of my clients wants something, a picture or video or something, message me. Continuing to argue with this guy is an exercise in futility.

wow i really like to see a video of your work, but im no client of yours :) , hope this scam warning got settle down soon

No worries elasticband, i didnt take it personal. i know how quick the herd mentality starts and gets out of hand around here, by the end of the day i'll probably have a -200 trust rating and have heard every wild accusation there is to be hear.

"scruffy and unfinished" was kind of the look that i was going for. It's "growing"

In fact, I started this scam accusation thread because I suspected you were scamming people. It's everyone's duty to out scams when they smell them. You're smoking your socks if you think this is because of jealousy.

Look again at the last picture I posted:
https://i.imgur.com/5eMfdSW.jpg

$50 piece of wood, cut like shit on a jigsaw, laser engraved. Sold to a rube for $1,200 because he thought it was carved by hand.

This issue is settled for me. Others may wish to post evidence for either side if they so choose.

Isn't it the right of the buyer (rube) to give the scam accusation and/or negative trust rather than a bystander? I think it is, so I believe you should message rube and see if he would like to file negative trust instead of you.

This is clearly done by a laser. I work on a furniture company for more than 10 years. And most of this carving is done by a laser it cannot be created using his tools because of the very fine details. The tools is used mainly for retouching after it was engrave by a laser. Notice the burnt marks on the lower left side and the zigzag like pattern on the edges, the zigzag like pattern on the edges occurs when the laser engraves very fast and the belt is not properly tighten or the machine is not properly cleaned.

Okay, I really want to understand this.
You start work on a piece of wood.
You know that you'll probably be sitting there for hours carving, chiseling, whatever the surface.
But you feel like sparing the 5 minutes it would take to create an at least acceptably smooth blank?

Seriously, I'd be more than happy to be wrong here, because I really like some of your work, but so far, I'm not convinced to the least.

The history of Bitcoin is one of endless scams, misrepresentations, frauds, fly-by-night businesses, and all-around shadiness. It is the duty of us all to share our suspicions when they arise.

FWIW, "a rube" is a type of person. There is nobody named "rube" here (at least, I hope not).

Please note how WC completely avoided commenting on the embarrassingly poor cut job he did on that photo I shared. Or maybe it's actually a perfect BTC and I'm just seeing it as a piece of shit because I'm jealous, and I wish I had a laser too?


I like it too. Some of the rounds in particular look amazing.

I would like to see a video of WoodCollector making a piece of his art... I would like you guys to believe that he is doing what he says he does.

FYI: I would like to have a laser...

Absolutely, a short video showing him create a tiny example of his work would make me remove my negative trust rating for him and even give him a positive one.

Me too 8)

And while we're dreaming: I'd like to have a robot ;D

If he shows a video of him carving fine-serif text like this, with hand tools, start to finish, I'll eat my hat. Heck, I'll commission a piece myself.

https://i.imgur.com/evCS8Qc.jpg

Is this thread serious.....

When I make my chainmaille jewellery is it not hand made because I didn't mine, smelt and coil the metal myself....

I will be taking bets , who says that he will upload the video and who say's he wont.

Nah for serious I'm looking foward to see if this is really hand made something I doubt.

Imperfect analogy. Do you link the maille by hand, or do you just load the design into a machine that links it for you?

Seriously, look at the white lines. Did he even draw the outline with a pencil before he started cutting, or did he freehand the whole thing?

https://i.imgur.com/5eMfdSW.jpg

If I cut a piece of wood that poorly, my dignity and self-respect would prevent me from showing it to people.

What is "hand made".  If he carves out everything and uses a machine for the fine details is it not hand made then?  If a machine cuts out the rough shape and he does the rest is it not hand made then?

Nobody expects him to go out into the woods and cut down trees.
But hand-carved is definitely not the same as "I used my hands to fire up the laser".

Do you expect me to coil the metal by hand?  Is it no longer hand made because I used a drill to coil the metal?

What if I use a machine to open half the rings and close the other half is it not hand made now?

Hand-made, partially. Hand-carved, no.

Hand-made, partially. Hand-carved, yes.
It's that easy, you do the carving part by hand, it's hand-carved. Duh! ::)

The problem is that he has gone out of his way to hide his use of a machine, while at the same time letting people think it's done completely by hand.

He exclusively uses the word "carve" to describe his process, as you can see here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=868931.0;all (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=868931.0;all)

Here's a buyer saying "The hand-carved detail is astonishing": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=868954.msg9777724#msg9777724 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=868954.msg9777724#msg9777724)

WC's response? "Thanks". Not "Oh, it was actually done with a laser, not carved."

The point is NOT how he makes the pieces, but how he represents them as being made.

If he was selling "beautiful hand-lacquered and polished laser-cut wooden bitcoin pieces", this thread would not exist.

Alright lets say it's hand made and mostly carved + machine for the fine details.  He has always delivered and great product now we are going to attack his reputation because he is exaggerating..  Sounds kind of like a bored soccer mom looking for someone to harass... :S

Technically he is not lying.. he did carve some by hand.  Some of it was made by hand thus it was hand made..

This sums it up nicely.

If he finds people who are willing to pay serious money for his laser-craft-work, no issue.
If he finds people who pay for hand-carved but receive laser-craft, it's scam.

The hand-carved detail is "astonishing", but not as astonishing as the massive discrepancy in width between the two verticals.

https://i.imgur.com/mOXk3At.png

Amazing that someone who can carve as well as a laser cutter is unable to use a saw properly.

I would say that what he is doing is dishonest if he is lying about how he produces his art. I am fairly confident that his art would probably not be sold for as much or would sell as frequently.

I do however think there would still be a market for his work if he had previously disclosed how he makes his art. I have somewhat thought about buying a piece from him.

Does anyone have any kind of estimate as to the price difference between what he would generally be able to sell his work for if these facts were previously disclosed verses what he actually sold for?

Guys, look i appreciate it, i really do, its really nice for you to stand up for me against this guy. But he is missing a little bit of information that people don't know unless they have commissioned a piece from me, and i am sure my clients will be jumping in to settle this down once they get online today. Any of my clients from here can tell you that i send them pictures along the way starting from the original sketch of the design concept (if they want to see it being done, a few wanted it to be a surprise), to carving progress, to applying the tung oil and linseed oil, to applying the finish coats of UV sealer and Spar right down to the finished product before it is posted on the forum, they know my art is authentic, as they paid for it.

Its really nice to see some of you standing to my defense, but some people will still continue to whip a dead mule long after it dies. Nubbins was not aware that my clients get this information as their piece is being created, as none of you really were unless you commissioned something, and soon once they get online this will come to rest and he will have to find some other argument to make, hopefully with someone else.

Absolutely. Just imagine me digitally printing something on canvas, then smearing some transparent varnish over it and calling that a hand-painted picture.

Sure, there's definitely a market for that. It's nice work, after all.

Somewhere on the order of 2 magnitudes, i.e. 50$ instead of $5000.

Well you should since it's your reputation under attack here which would be bad for business.  If this really is as common as you claim, and you were as legit as you would like to lead one shouldn't you have a site with some kind of portfolio hosted online?  I mean I've never been in the market for anything of the art type but your entire operation seems really too fly by night to be legitimate.



A sudden -5 to your trade rep and "Warning: Trade with extreme caution!" hints at a little less support from the community than you lead on

One piece sold for $14,000 -

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=864472

It's right here: https://www.sansleaf.com/ (https://www.sansleaf.com/)


In fairness, that -5 is completely due to my single negative trust rating. Default Trust is broken, kids, and this is one more reason why.

Are you serious ? 14k dollars , this is too expensive.

My first post in a couple years and I show off what a noob I am  ::)

That sansleaf site is just a gallery, there should be a lot of different manufactures/brands there like but everywhere I look around the site is just blank or empty.  Like if you hoover brands on the tool bar it shows 5 spots saying 'YOU LOGO HERE", and the Women category is just completely blank.  Even when I click on sale there is nothing there.  It's like there is no actual content on this site but a mash of some foreign language and a generic template.

90% of the cost was due to the cost of the wood. The rest was for the work hours he put on it. He could've just bought some shitty plywood but that was not what the buyer asked for.

That last part gave me a chuckle.

I asked these similar questions a few months back when he first started posting.

When I got to the point that his work looked very similar to laser engraving the discussion quickly got pushed off to Skype or email which I never got around to.

@wood collector, take a camera and video tape an entire piece you have done at the same caliber of your previous pieces. Then fast forward it in a time lapse to show you actually did it with your hands.

To me your work does look laser engraved and not hand carved. Honest opinion.

If this is the same type of wood im not seeing anything near $14k -

https://www.gilmerwood.com/items.php?species=Pink+Ivory&CID=38

p.s. are you saying that at 90% the wood alone cost $12,600

Efrah, My reputation isn't really under attack, its one guy leading a charge from the usual suspects. This accusation was started a few hours ago, the bulk of my clients have not even logged in since this who parade of nonsense started.

further, as stated since day one, i do not use my brand on my bitcoin pieces. Thats not going to change just because someone wants to start getting mouthy here.

next, a quick -5 to my rating..... its been a few hours, all it takes is one negative rating from someone on the high default trust list and even the best ratings will fall. It only gets worse before it gets better, and the faults in the rating system have been discussed many times on the forum. I still have WAY more positive trust than negative on my feedback if you go transaction for transaction, a weighted trust system only gives power to people who have been here longer the right to tarnish other people because they want something fun to do for a day. 

and finally, "my reputation being under attack being bad for business". I think you misunderstand the reason i am here. I came to the bitcoin community after getting some free bitcoin and wanting to find a way to buy some wood with it.  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=846852.msg9442160#msg9442160) That is my business here, and these accusations do not affect that in the slightest bit, i have already sourced out a supply chain from forum members and saved tons of money in doing it this accusation has no impact on that. I am not here to run a business of selling art, i make things when people ask for them. Occasionally i make something when i have some free time, and list it for sale. If it all ended tomorrow it makes no difference to me as i still will continue buying wood for bitcoin for months to come. The only reason i even bothered to step in here with this crazy stuff that Nubbins wants to spout off with is because his actions could affect the art that my clients already hold and that is not fair to them. I've been here 3 months and done tens of thousands worth of sales of art, the fact that it took 3 months for someone to say something only shows me that the bulk of everyone already knows Nubbins is just running his mouth. This community is riddled with scams, and people are very quick to call them out when they happen, after 3 months i think someone would have said something by now if they really felt that way. Not to mention one of my best clients here is a Machinest by trade and would have known right away if his piece was done by a machine, CNC or laser or whatever the accusation of the minute is. Being a member of the community for much longer than i, and with a reputation for looking out for peoples best intrests, he would have said something right away if he thought something was fishy in the slightest bit.

I can see your point in why you doubt his claims. I have an epilog laser myself and his pieces look identically similar in nature and in detail as I've lasered many intricate wood pieces just for fun.

WoodCollector should take bets on wether he does it by hand or by laser... Then bet on himself. Easy money if you get that video made ;)

Stop with the spouts of how you're reputable and all and just post a video of you making these legendary engravings. Hell its a good marketing tool too as you'll prove more people wrong and prove those who might be wanting to buy but have slight doubts about how the art is made, into buying a piece from you.

I'm not a "wood expert" but the prices in that *site is too different than the 14'000 dollars. Maybe the idea of a short video is great .

Smoothie like i said, your entitled to your opinion and i never held it against you, I have messaged one of my clients and asked if he minds if i share a video of his piece being carved. i don't imagine he will have a problem with it, but you know as well as i do that is not going to stop the downward spiral here. It really dosnt stop until Nubbins gets tired of me and moves on to someone else. We see it all the time on this forum.

WoodCollector seems to be very vague and hasn't directly answered the question in the original accusation.

Are his pieces hand carved as he originally stated or are they done by laser.

I believe it's the rare watermellon variety of the Pink Ivory wood that makes if even more rare... WoodCollecotr would you like to reiterate on where you got the price of the wood?

Misrepresentation of it being hand-carved isn't being honest. I took his statement to mean he hand carved the entire wood piece and not just some of it. There is a big difference in those two statements.

I made my way here via Reddit, where the news of this has spread.

WoodCollector, the easiest and fastest way to settle this for everybody is to take a few short minutes needed to set up a camera on a small tripod, and take a recording of a carving of any random fine detail from one of the pieces you produce, such as the small font that some have argued is impossible to get such perfection without a laser engraving. That way not only will you put the accusations to be, if they are in fact untrue, but you will also drum up your reputation and show off your skill. There are several issues with relying on clients to chime in:
-if none of them do, it doesn't necessarily mean you are in fact a fraud; it just means no clients have chimed in
-if several people chime in, we would still need to factually establish they were in fact clients
-there is an inherent psychological issue at play here; somebody that has been defrauded and suspects in doing so, may engage in denial and confirmation bias in order to supress their doubt and justify having spent hundreds of dollars

This isn't so much a discussion over the quality of the piece, but rather how it is marketed and what expectations were set as to what people are actually buying. It seems to me that what needs to be disclosed is whether or not any laser etching/engraving/whatever is involved at all.

I am just a sideliner here offering suggestions.

Carve a fancy ass interrobang with some internal designs... Prove these people wrong.

If it were laser-engraved it would sell for far less.

Hand-carved pieces are one off and essentially custom pieces as they will be one of a kind.

Laser engraving is easy as all you need is the design and the same size piece of wood...press the start button on the laser and you're done.

LOL, Sounds fun, if i do it and make a video of if will you buy it? Tell me what your budget is and i will do it and make a video of it for you.

I am pretty sure I commissioned the first piece from Woodcollector, and I am 100% happy with it. We never discussed how it would be made or anything, but I do not care either way. He did send me some pictures of it being made along the way so I will try and dig them up. Always a witch hunt here on the boards  ::)

I don't have a lot of money on me right now but I'll see if I can gather some funds up... How does $150 sound? Lol that's most likely the most I could get right now without breaking my investments.

It probably wouldn't be the nicest work you've made considering the price but it's something? :p

If anyone wants to pitch in, I'll let you look at it ;) lol

Thanks blazed, i really appreciate it and am happy that you are still pleased with your piece. You were for sure my first client here and i never would have expected it when i only came here to buy wood.

You could of course wait for me to get more money which would be an indefinite amount of time lol...

Assuming this piece is at the same caliber of detail of your other products you've posted and the video does prove you only used your hands to carve the piece (hand tools I presume) then I will support you on this.

Until then I have my doubts as I've expressed months ago when no one else had their doubts.

I will publicly apologize if my opinion of your work turns out to be wrong.

If you know anything about me on this forum is to do the exact same thing nubbins is doing...calling out what the believe is a scam until you are proven wrong. I see nothing wrong with what nubbins has done. If you have proof to make him look like a fool (i.e. wrong) in his assumptions then you should have no problem posting such evidence (i.e. the video).

I'm not sure if I would call it a witch hunt. Asking for someone to prove their legitimacy isn't necessarily a witch hunt. In fact it is attempting to get the facts.

Witch hunts start with shooting then asking questions later. Perhaps nubbins making this thread was too soon but it is so far asking for the right information (i.e. video etc) to disprove any suspicions of the wood pieces not being hand-carved.

A detailed clear video would show everyone you're the true artist that you claim to be.


Yet, for some vague reason i don't think there will be one...

Why does somebody have to purchase something from you before you're willing to show that person you're a legit skilled artist? Wouldn't it be better to show everyone, so they start buying your works?

There should be multiple videos of his work. At least one of which he claims exists. I am curious to see from start to finish of him hand-carving the entire piece and not just some of it.

such a bold move i love it

the one thing to ensure the reputation here is video + review from the person who accuse

Great move :)

i hope you carve a great masterpiece for smoothie

Guys (and especially OP),

Honestly I would'nt have a problem with people suspecting something. Its not wrong to do that. However, what is wrong is that the title of this post is called: SCAM WARMING.
How do you know its a scam? Did you buy any piece from him? Are you a wood artist? Its very easy to point fingers and choose sides but it would be better to stay neutral. I'm sure if you asked a normal question about your doubts, there would be no problem at all.

I have paid and witnessed myself how he created my piece "Resolute":
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=927942

Along the way, I have witnessed all sketches and progress done. This is something I personally asked. If you order a piece, you can also choose the "surprise" route, in which he just crafts a beautifull piece and sends it to you without making progression pictures along the way. This guy is 100% legit. If he was not, I would not throw a 1000 EU against it.  

Now if anyone feels cool enough to have further questions. Don't hesistate to PM me. However, this is a piece of art and it should stay that way. I am not going to ask progression pictures of the Mona Lisa either. It's not something art should be about.

How does this thread affect your ability to get to work?
Seriously though, if you really need to take a break from it, just don't go online for a few days.

Now that's what I call uncalled for.
Nubbins is trying to warn others, he's not after you.
There's no reason whatsoever for Smoothie to leave negative trust for him.

Are you smoothie? Were you posting from the wrong account?

How dense are you? He specifically made the offer to Smoothie, not you.

I commissioned 3 pieces and witnessed on all 3 of them the process of being made!!!
All 3 were drawn before and on all 3 were made changes by my request.
WoodCollector is such a nice person and takes a lot of time for his clients.
AND EVEN, if this pieces were carved by a laser... I would still love them and they would still be unique.

There is 10,000% a reason to leave negative trust for him permanently for poor conduct on the forum. As you can see by clicking here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=930649.msg10218844#msg10218844) Every single one of my clients who requested knows beyond any shadow of a doubt their pieces are 100% legit as i provide them with everything along the way. He was just the first of my clients, Besides blazedout who already chimed in (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=930649.msg10218451#msg10218451) to log in today to set the record straight.

If nubbins would have conducted himself in a professional manner, Contacted me with his questions, hell maybe eve a request for a small piece out of non exotic wood and a video of me carving it to settle his curiousit, i would have provided him with every bit of everything that all my clients already know and have.

Instead he wants to lead a public smear campaign, start a "scam warning" thread when he has nothing to "warn" as his "proofs" are nothing more than self drawn conclusions that he is trying to market to the public to get them to believe. Further he wants to use his default trust status to smear my trust rating as a result of his ill drawn conclusions like they are fact.

He deserves a million times to be scorned for acting in such a rude, unprofessional manner, it is antics like his that cause good people to leave the community when they are the ones providing the true blessings to this place.

Those are my terms, they are agreed to by smoothie or not. If he agrees, then i do it for him, He does not, then i have 0 care in the world as EVERY SINGLE ONE of my clients who requested has been given every bit of proof along the way they wanted and as they log in EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM will tell you the same thing. If i have to jump through hoops on account of someone being reckless and unprofessional, then that person needs to suffer as well. If Nubbins wants to remove his trust rating, be done with and remove this smear campaign thread, and message me like a grown man in a professional manner LIKE HE SHOULD HAVE DONE IN THE FIRST PLACE, then i can directly put his mind at ease and provide him with what he wants. If not, then here we stand, Smoothie agrees to my terms, or i go on not caring. I came here to buy wood, not to argue with irrational people. This smear campaign is more annoying than it is damaging, every one of my clients knows better, and anyone who wants to commission a piece in the future, if i even continue to do pieces for this community in the future after i finish the ones that are already paid for can talk to my clients from here, and request the same step by step pics that all my other clients got.


SMOOTHIE, THE BALL IS IN YOUR COURT!, and only because you were very professional when you contacted me last time with your concerns and i have respect for that.

I beg to differ. His doubts are reasonable and voiced in the "correct" way here in "Scam Accusations".

Well, then where's your reason not to settle this right now, right here, once and for all?

It is people like him who have detected scams on this forum in the past and warned others about it, over and over again.

Sure, but should Smoothie agree, I might leave negative trust for him as well.
Surrender to blackmail is something I would consider a breach of trust.
So, if you care about Smoothie, drop that request for negative feedback towards nubbins.

I don't give a shit if this guy is legit or not because I would never buy an overpriced piece of wood in the first place, but I do know that when you are legit it is really easy to show people that.  If it was me being accused instead of replying to every troll that leaves their oppinion I would simply show them proof of my legitimacy.

I keep laughing about how Bill Cosby gets accused of rape and his response is basically "Would a innocent man need to defend himself?" -- very crypto

I have no dog in this fight and no knowledge of wood carving whatsoever.  I thought these pieces were beautiful.  What makes me suspicious of them being hand crafted is the speed they were being produced.

Using a financial barrier as leverage to shift the burden of proof does not send the right message here. What you're saying is "pay me money so I can prove to the community I am not misrepresenting my work".

You're still receiving orders for work, correct? You could just use an order at random. I was not suggesting you go out of your way for this.

I was suggesting that when you are going to work on your next ordered piece, just set up a camera and take a short video of one of the intricate carvings that you were accused of having misrepresented how the work is being done. I have no dog in this fight and I am not making any sort of accusations, I was merely suggesting a very effective way to put this to bed, forever.

You could have made a video in the time you spent here flapping your gums about how proof isn't necessary and trying to get people promise to neg-rate me.

Nothing to see here but a scammer grasping at straws. Shame, because his laser etchings are really quite nice. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the video.

PROTIP FOR FORUM ENTREPRENEURS: this is a den of scams and your feet WILL be held to the flames if you smell funny. Don't try to misrepresent yourself and your business dealings!

Yes, because wood carving is so easy that everyone can just whip out a masterpiece in an hour. Some of my clients have been waiting over a month to get something done. Nubbins, your going to lose on this one, and as soon as smoothie accepts my terms, you are going to have egg on your face. Not I. You could have handled yourself in a more professional manner.


EDIT: or is it that you missed the part where my clients have already publicly told you that your claims are false as they, as paying clients, have seen the proof already? Do you really want to keep whipping a dead horse? i have no problem putting this to bed, either once smoothie agrees to my terms, our you realize you made a mistake and fix it. I am a reasonable man, are you?

It is not people like him. Hes doubting, so therefore he should not conclude anything. The title is misleading and not helping in any way. A better title would be: "Im wondering if WoodCollector is a geniune handscrafter".
It is people like Nubbins fucking up this community.

Again, I have bought my Resolute piece from WoodCollector and i can tell that he is legit. He even wanted to do Golden in-lay. I saw all progress being made. Now if you idiots would stop this nonsense we can truly live in a better world.

If Smoothie doesn't want to agree to such terms I will do it, I think your work is absolutely beautiful. You can use the cheapest wood or whatever, they still look amazing and I'd def want one.

As others said though, 3 pages of this was not useful and useless IMO, should just get that video going man.

Nubbins isn't even in DefaultTrust. The only person that matters is bigbitz, who left you negative trust and is in DefaultTrust. People can say whatever they like about anyone here, Vod is constantly accused of being a child molester without evidence by some pissed off scammer, you can't stop people saying stuff, let him say whatever he wants it only matters if people actually listen.

Hey deliveryman! I know that WoodCollector mentioned what kind of progress updates he provides, can you clarify for the community what you received? Can you also mention what, specifically, was provided to show that the intricate carving was all done by hand? I am struggling to come up with another way that you could show a skeptic that the work was actually done by hand, short of a video. People will always come up with ways to discredit anything else, but I think a video would be indisputable. What are your thoughts?

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/tumblr_ljh0puClWT1qfkt17.gif

I must say, this thread was an interesting read. WoodCollector I would recommend for you to just prove yourself once and for all (if you are indeed legitimate).

No you are wrong , I think he is in the defaultTrust... his negative feedback against WoodCollector appears in the "Trusted feedback".

Did you miss the part where all anyone is asking for is a little bit of proof that you are capable of producing the detail and accuracy you claim to be able to?  It would be as simple as carving "nubbins is a fool" into a piece of wood.

I never heard about your carving before today, but I have spent a lot of time cutting wood with an epiologe laser cutter.  I don't think any of the evidence so far is conclusive but your responses show that you find it unnecessary or difficult to produce proof.  Then you talk about nubbin's unprofessionalism?  He is just a person accusing you of being dishonest, you are supposed to be the professional, not him.

My apologies, I forgot I have a custom list. Well he's not trusted on my fixed trust list anyway :)

Regardless of how this turns out, this thread is sad. This forum has AIDS and its own immune system is eating it alive. Mobs are great fun, when you are holding a torch. Everyone is so thirsty for retribution no one is interested in facts. Soon it will be your turn.

Ignore lists and custom trust lists are a god send. Everybody should use them, makes the forum so much better.

This is precisely why I interjected, in an attempt to offer the simplest solution I could think of to this whole thing, before we find ourselves on page sixty in this thread with nothing productive having come out of it.

It should be pretty clear that the only productive outcome of this discussion would be the accused providing evidence of their abilities.  If that cannot occur then the thread will just be entertainment.

agree, sad thing in the trust system is to be trustedm you must earn trust, which sometimes turns out to be a witch hunt , turns out to be "accusing someone wrong to make myself looks good" system

TECSHARE has it right, this thread sucks. I also think several of you do not understand what a trust system is and how it works.

Go back and read this post right here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=929268.msg10209685#msg10209685), where I first stumbled across the guy's work. I complimented it, as I did at the start of this thread.

I then expressed confusion about his pricing structure, to which he replied right here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=929268.msg10209768#msg10209768) that he actually charges $3k/hr, but $18/hr is the special price for us. Imagine a $3k/hour artisan saying "fuck it, I'll do it for $18/hour, and just try a LOT LESS HARD".

This was obviously taking the piss (Special price on a hand-tailored suit, sir? Just for you...). Obviously. If anyone reading this believes that a man whose time is worth THREE THOUSAND DOLLARS AN HOUR is going to pick up a chisel for $18/hr, stop reading RIGHT NOW and kill yourself.

At this point, I suspected that if the guy was going to be so blatantly full of shit about how much money he makes, he's probably bullshitting about how much his wood costs, how long his pieces take to make, everything. A cursory examination of the circumstantial evidence (loans for tools, brand-new account but familiar with BFL, making drug paraphernalia on his lathe, etc) combined with the fact that his designs REALLY ARE ACTUALLY QUITE NICE (seriously) but the shapes he cuts out are ACTUALLY EMBARRASSINGLY POOR  (for a "master artisan"), combined with the fact that several laser engravers have chimed in to say that they believe the pieces are laser engraved, combined with the fact that the only surfaces not etched are the flat inner and outer edges that can't be lasered, lead me to the most obvious conclusion: that he's in fact a mediocre woodworker and a decent graphic designer, pretending that his laser-cut designs (literally the exact same as pressing "print" in photoshop) are somehow hand-carved.

Any master craftsman would have a portfolio of high-end work to show potential clients. Any craftsman who has been working for more than a few years is a fucking idiot if they don't have a portfolio of their high-end work, including process pictures. My threads are littered with them. But the best this guy can produce is this:

https://i.imgur.com/sNGIGael.jpg

THE FUCKING WOOD CHIPS ARE NOT EVEN THE SAME COLOUR AS THE BLANK.

Christ, you people. I'm done.

Does anyone disagree that the preponderance of evidence presented so far points to the intricate designs being laser cut?

I very much do have a portfolio of several high end works, and no amount of your idiocy is going to get me to devalue the works from my gallery by publicly admitting i do pieces for a tenth of the cost for bitcoin users.

Instead,

Not only does the forum members who are truly concerned get their video proof, i am going to turn you into an example of what happens when people try to plague this forum with harsh, unfounded claims to tarnish peoples reputation over a witch hunt with nothing more than speculation backing it up. Even the people who have commissioned my art have told you that your wrong in the worst kind of way and you still want to carry on. Your not here to protect anyone, you have made it clear your on a smear campaign. So its time i do some marketing, and campaiging of my own because i FIRMLY believe that this community is better than you.

For anyone who missed it, all the video, photo evidence you will need to draw your conclusions can be found HERE (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=931109) over the coming weeks, the first video should be up within a day or so.

It's never nice when your life's work and integrity is put into question but lashing back so defensively doesn't really help either.

A simple video would clear everything up, put OP in his place, and make your business stronger than before.

Interested in seeing proof for this latest forum drama  ;D ;D *popcorn*

Normally yes, but even after being told by my clients that what i said is true, even after going on a picture taking expedition to satisfy his crap he still wants to defend his accusations. this is not a man who wants answers or the facts/truth, he has already been given both by myself and the people who actually buy the things i sell. No, he has made it clear that he just wants to have some fun and go on a smear campaign. So... Challenge accepted. Its not defensive. Its offensive for every other forum member out there who has suffered similar situations. When simple truths and facts are not enough to end the witch hunt. YOU HAVE TO HANG THE HUNTERS or they are going to keep at it until they run you off.

BTW there is no such thing as a simple video when it comes to wood carving. Do you really think by reading through his posts in this thread that if i would have went to the shop, carved a really small letter S or Q or whatever in a piece of wood to show it can be done and that i can do it that he would have stopped? After it was the text that was impossible, it would have been the micro fine lines that i do with a dental pick, after that it would be something else.

he asked for pictures, i gave pictures, he says "they look too new", i show a work in progress, he says "the shavings are not the same color" this really shows me how clueless he is as anybody who works with wood knows that  when you work with wood, it gets lighter, thats why people use things like tung oil or boiled linseed oil to put the color back in the wood. Hell even the people buying the wood told him "i have seen it, he is 100% legit" and he still carries on. No, No, this is the type of situation 100% where you hang the hunter. That is the only way he is going to stop. THEN and only then can things carry on as normal. Not sure if i will still do art pieces here in the future or not after all of this, but i am still here, and still going to be buying wood like a mad man.

I just wanted to point out that the clients that spoke up, did so by saying they are satisfied with the quality of your work and that they were presented with progress of work, but none have clarified what that was. As far as I understand it, the allegation in this thread is that the very fine details on the wood work are not hand made, but laser cut. Therefore, in this case the customer feedback isn't relevant to the topic. The photos of tools don't count as evidence because they only demonstrate that you own them, not how/if you use them.
So there is disagreement over evidence here, not that someone is hell bent with an agenda. Personally I think your pieces look great and I prefer imperfections, because that gives them character. No two pieces will be exactly alike.

Sorry, your right, glad IronMarvel cleared it up then.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=868954.msg10220254#msg10220254

There, now a client and soon clients will be telling it like it is. Still going to make some videos though, Maybe if Nubbins trust rating gets murdered enough he will leave mine alone.

That's a five-day-old account.

Wow this certainly blew up...and to think...I came this close to buying a dildo from this guy  ;D

What part of "customer feedback isn't relevant to the topic" do you not understand?  Stop responding until you have some proof otherwise you are just wasting your time.

Here's another master carver, with what is essentially a large Butterfly Labs dildo.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Grabovetskiy3.jpg

As you can see, both this gentleman and his peer, WoodCarver, are in possession of the same approximate level of skill.

omg... just invest some time before writing something stupid...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=924237.0

From that thread:

https://i.imgur.com/TkRbrHp.png

Weird, bitspill is a Hero Member too.

You're an idiot is showing strongly here. A guy hacked Ironmarvel's account and messaged everyone he wanted to scam (the hacker did) and went on a trolling rampage. Ironmarvel still has no access to his account despite messaging Theymos.

Me, Bitspill and many were messaged by the scammer / hacker...

Just to set this straight, I can confirm with a high level of certainty that IronMarvel2 is the real IronMarvel.

For real man??
I started a thread calling out that I was hacked about 30 min after it happend. I posted on every loan thread, that the hacker started, not to trust this guy, not to give him a loan... and now you suggest that I try to scam people.
Very poor move dude....

he is on a quest to start as many smear campaigns today as he can, you'll have your own thread from him soon too. no point in trying to use logic and reason with nubbins. hes just going to keep pissing in the wind until he hits something to redeem himself

This reflects very poorly on your judgment skills if you actually believe that is a message from the real IronMarvel.

I don't give a red fuck about catching up on the history of every user who posts here, so don't act so shocked.

"Just invest some time." Eat shit. I'm supposed to say "hm, this account is 5 days old; I'd better scour this user's history for explanations as to why this is so"?

http://youtu.be/q8uhBrqeD-A (http://youtu.be/q8uhBrqeD-A)

I want a laser engraver now.....

Wait, you mean your suppose to do some due diligence and look into things before you start spouting off at the mouth and making accusations? Oh no, never, not nubbins. Heaven forbid that we take some time to look into anything or act in a professional manner before we start throwing our weight around. This morning you were just a thorn in my side. Tonight, i really look forward to this, 2 new orders today from people who didnt even know i was here until you started this nonsense (thanks for the marketing BTW), and now an opportunity to do a few videos over the week to put you in your place. In the end, i really hope this was all worth it for you  ::)




Insert Nubbins smart reply here _______________________________________________________________________________ ___

Sorry, you completely misunderstand. What I am saying is that I have no interest in verifying the veracity of claims from a 5-day-old account. I do not care whether some stranger's original account was hacked or not -- why would I?

If I put "due diligence" into all of the five-day-old accounts on this forum, I would literally have a full-time job on my hand. It's simply not feasible. Thus, the onus of proof is on the 5-day-old account, and a rational person would recognize this. Which I did. Do you understand what I'm saying?

So obtuse, what a total waste of time. Looking forward to the video, I'm sure it'll be a beautiful piece.

Nubbins...Seriously, you are beyond stupid and I hope that this thread achieves one thing for Woodcollector - marketing and new orders. The community is full of scams and frauds, when a genuine person comes here looking to spend tens of thousands of dollars on wood and then in doing so finds a market for his beautiful art work, he gets accused of being a scammer.

You titled this thread 'SCAM WARNING' - What evidence do you have of this, i mean solid hard evidence. If you wanted to question him , why not start a thread saying 'Is Woodcutter using a laser' and put it in the goods section and have some discussion - as Smoothie did a few months back. Instead by labelling him a scammer, with no thread you do this why - to tarnish his reputation?

Having commissioned two pieces from Woodcollector and worked with him for a few months, I have found him to be a very sincere and honest guy. He even surprised me and did a gold inlay in the back of my Unity coin that I had not requested.
https://i.imgur.com/Qt05uWR.jpg

Every step of the way he kept me updated.  You sir nubbins, are about to be made to look like a fool and to leave negative trust is just appalling behaviour. This should have been bought up as a q+a discussion thread not a 'SCAM SCAM SCAM' thread.

Its people like you who make good people leave these forums.

I found some evidence  

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQKLl3ETby5xG3FQ6vWDjSa_JA1FPh6M1qNQt4nFgye75PKCeE3 (https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQKLl3ETby5xG3FQ6vWDjSa_JA1FPh6M1qNQt4nFgye75PKCeE3)

same lion thats on his "carving"

I hate scammers!!!!

You're telling us that he didn't do a picture of a lion straight from memory!?!?
 What a hussler!

https://i.imgur.com/SQXqYlH.png

Get the fuck out of here. That's obviously fucking lasered, you fucking sock.


He did the BTC from memory  ;D

http://gfx9.com/angry-lion-graphics-vector-free/163321 (http://gfx9.com/angry-lion-graphics-vector-free/163321)

free vector graphics

I would tend to agree with woodcollector. Nubbins does seem to be the competition of woodcollector so a smear campaign would be financially beneficial to Nubbins. From what I have seen, woodcollector does have a lot of business comming to his direction and I have not heard any complaints about his work which would likely happen if anything was awray as his customers are spending a lot of money on his work

Seriously you are a fucking retard. Sock lol. Don't make me laugh. Wow so my account started in December, that means I must be a sock puppet ::)

I have commissioned and paid for 2 pieces by Woodcollector - do you need to see the transaction ID's? I wonder what you will be saying once he posts the videos? No doubt you will call his videos fake.

-- off topic comment --
dude that's really cool! It looks like Turkish Flag, I loved it!
-- off topic comment --

Amazing. I happen to be a woodworker of 40+ years myself (yes, I really am that old) and I contacted WoodCollecter just a couple days ago to see if he was interested in buying some Ironwood, although I never looked at his work. Now i see this and my mind is completely boggled. I did not read every post here, but I can affirm the opinion of a few I saw that have said that the intricate carving in question is done with a laser. I am 100% sure about it. NO doubt, case closed. What amazes me is not that he is using a laser etcher, but that he is denying it, especially at this point. I do have to say that the overall level of craftsmanship in the pieces I have seen pictures here is not impressive (wonky ass BTC cutouts, etc.), but the laser work is super cool. Should have been honest with your customers.

You can clearly see the line by line marks left on this piece that are definitely, without a doubt, with 100% certainty left by a laser engraver exactly the same as a printer does:

https://i.imgur.com/5Sv5ANS.jpg

WHY? Why is it necessary to lie to people?
That is actually only a rhetorical question, because the prices WC is getting for "hand carved" pieces is why- duh. The stuff WC is making is cool, but what ever happened to being honest? Guess we can add WoodCollecter's name to the long list of BTC scammers. What a shame. Greed. It is a sickness. Instead of making great money making neato laser engraved items he has to play people for fucking fools and say that he is carving that shit by hand so he can charge Uber Craftsman prices. Disgusted.

Even if WoodCollector is legitimate, I won't be doing business with him simply due to his unprofessional response to all of this. I also find it hard to believe someone who makes $10,000,000 a year to be this unprofessional.

My two cents:

1) As a general rule, a scammer will shift the focus away from himself and/or attack his detractors.  This usually happens unconsciously.

2) As a general rule, a non-scammer will be cooperative and do what is necessary to prove his innocence.

These rules are general, not universal.  Make your own judgment.  I've made mine.

Just saw this and been away today as it's a busy day for me...

Let me address your offer here point by point:

1. Agreed. I think there is a lot of discussion going on that could be squelched with you posting a video of hand making one of your products that have intricate details like we have all seen you post.

2. Agreed. I was not expecting this type of thing but if you do want me to review your product I will do my best to give a neutral and unbiased review of your work (assuming there is an accompanying video of your hand crafting of the product).

3. I DO NOT AGREE TO THIS. Essentially this is not about nubbins and more about you and you silencing your critics. If you choose not to create a product for me I will not be offended. In fact I was surprised at your offer. This does give you a chance to silence every critic of your work and make your business image that much stronger by doing so. You have upside to gain should you prove opposing parties wrong. The most productive aspect of this is not for me to leave him negative feedback as I do not believe he has done anything that warrants negative feedback. But I do disagree with his approach in creating the thread and not talking with you directly to get all of his facts before posting.

I do not believe that leaving negative feedback due to a thread like this is warranted as nubbins could retract his thread in the future (edit it and choose to publicly admit he was wrong should you prove him wrong.)

As I said if you prove me wrong in my own opinions of your work, I will publicly apologize and concede I was wrong and if you do end up sending me one of your pieces of hand-carved work I will review it for all to see.

Essentially as I said before this is not about nubbins and about say silencing me and making me in fact support you in your worksmanship should you be able to convince me that your products are in fact "hand-carved" pieces and not just partially hand-carved pieces.

There are no hard feelings here for me. I do want the truth to be out in the open and I believe you have been and are being given the opportunity to prove us all wrong who may doubt you.

Aloha,

Smoothie  :)

Although I am actually lelling out loud here, maybe you're one of my socks 8)

Anyway, I uh, look:

https://i.imgur.com/TJmeQvX.png

Two-tone images (solid black and white, vector) are precisely and exclusively the sort of file that lasers would use to etch wood. If nothing else, the fact that he'd use a stock b&w vector image without even bothering to take 15 minutes to modify it a bit, rather than taking, say, an actual photograph of a roaring lion in a pose he likes, and creating an original drawing from that, speaks to his intentions. Quick bucks.

Everyone here who had the audacity to say unkind things to me in any thread relating to this matter should be ashamed of themselves.

Enough guys. 12 hours of this stupid shit is about all this old man can handle for a lifetime.

To Nubbins, i got nothing for you. dealing with you is exhausting. You win. whatever. feel big, you took the crown in the dick measuring contest. We have all seen what an ass you can be. Feel proud !

To my clients, i will still be making some carving videos, you want them, you know where to find me :) I can and will still prove to you that Nubbins is full of shit and on a smear campaign, i am now just choosing to do so directly with the people who matter, not every tom dick and harry that thinks they know a darn thing about woodworking

To paul revere, wow, 40 years as a woodworker and you turned into a tool yourself. Especially in AZ, take a trip up to Lake Havasu, Drive the McCullogh BLVD. Loop. Stop in a few of the galleries take a very close look at some of the carvings, then reply back that they were done with a laser or CNC to prove how little you really do know.

To future clients, sorry for letting this get so out of hand, i am done with the public smearing campaign as of now. You want some videos, send me a message in a few days. It comes with a condition though, once you watch them, Nubins gets his negative feedback as he deserves.

I'm out, i have clients to worry about and this crap has now taken an entire work day away from me where 0 work was done on their pieces. . They are the ones who deserve the videos, they are the ones who deserve the pictures, they are the ones who have the right to ask the questions.

<--- This guy is done with the kid crap, you guys know how to get in touch if you want some videos or have some questions, i'd be happy to provide them to ANYONE who wants to act in a professional manner.

120 hours carving a piece of clip art.

Just so we're clear here, the jig is up, WoodCutter is a fraud, eat shit. Another one in the pile. People like you are the fucking cancers of this place.

Quoted for posteriors:

I have responded to your offer. Please see above. Thanks.

 :)

So he'll show anyone the videos of him doing the real thing, as long as they neg-rate me. And he's also gone, because he's tired of all the questions. Is that about it? Maybe he shouldn't have sold his last wooden dildo, he's going home empty-handed... at least he can hit the wood bong when he gets home from school!

Tries to bribe me one more time via PM on the way out:

I don't think this would destroy nubbins reputation. While I do agree with your logic that negative trust would not be appropriate in this case, if nubbins were to agree then I don't see the harm. All it would really do is cause more proof to be given by nubbins in the future when he wants to call out scams (assuming he is wrong in this case).

I do somewhat suspect that this offer was made in a way that he knew it would probably not be accepted (meaning it was a bluff). If both yourself and nubbins were to agree to this clause then maybe his bluff can be called

Of course it wouldn't. WC's negative rating of me is currently doing more damage to his reputation than my negative rating of him is.


I think most of you do not understand what a trust system is and how it works.

People tend to get butthurt when their $14,000 per item scam is disrupted by the truth.

Tip of the hat to Nubbins. I love the way this place polices itself!

Is it just me or does that Butterfly labs piece on the 1st page look like a dildo?  :D

It's a dildo  :D

I had a good chuckle at those who think that woodcollector's work is NOT done with a laser. The exact vectors of the lions and side elements used are available all over online, for free. The details speak for themselves.

Anyways, for what it's worth, I've dealt with Nubbins on IRC and he was nothing but professional and reliable. This isn't the reason I am posting here, but I feel it's fair to point out.

No, I understand how the trust system is suppose to work. If you scam, are trying to scam  then you should receive negative trust in order to warn others who will potentially want to trade with you in the future. What you are doing by opening this thread has nothing to do with you scamming, unprofessional, yes somewhat, but scamming no.

My point is that there is a good chance that woodcollector is bluffing. He could have made that offer knowing that negative trust would not be appropriate and that smoothie would probably not agree to such a clause. His offer allows him to offer to make a video without having to actually make one.

If you end up being wrong about woodcollector then if you agree to receive negative trust from smoothie if you are proven to be wrong then your reputation is intact. If you call his bluff and you are right then you have the opportunity to prove him to be a fraud  

http://static8.depositphotos.com/1004920/902/v/950/depositphotos_9027723-Bull-in-tribal-style---vector-image..jpg (http://static8.depositphotos.com/1004920/902/v/950/depositphotos_9027723-Bull-in-tribal-style---vector-image..jpg)

these are the bulls from the bottom

The issue is not whether you have had issues with making deals with WC, or whether or not he has $100k worth of equipment, or whether you spent a ridiculous amount of money for supposedly hand carved pieces. The issue is whether or not he is using a $10 chisel to do intricate handcarvings for which he is charging exorbitant amounts. The answer to that question is : NO, he is not hand carving that shit. 

P.S: The equipment I saw in the few pics posted was not anywhere near 100k worth of machinery. All I see is a cheap ass Chinese lathe (Grizzly? Harbor Freight?) and a fucking dremel. Somewhere is the Pièce de résistance and source of his "craftsmanship", a laser engraver. Gauging by the striations left by the unit when cutting away open relief areas I bet even that is a piece of shit ~25 watt unit worth maybe $1,000.

Well that was totally unexpected that WC would chicken out...
Smartest thing to do in his situation, better keep doubt for a few that you can potentially scam in the future than admit to being a fraud publicly...

If you read the post he made in the reputation section he will be posting videos within the next day or two.

I have no horse in this race and am not qualified to make any determination about how a piece of wood art was or was not created.
That having been said, if the accusations here are true some people have been severely injured financially by WC.  If I were on that list, I would be reaching out to the others who have made purchases from him and start comparing notes....ship from address, etc.  If it becomes necessary to locate him for potential legal action, etc.

I must admit I am shocked to see some of the amounts people have spent for his work, regardless of how it was created.  I mean, you don't know this guy from a fucking hole in the wall and you buy 50k worth of his 'art' because he says that's what it should cost?  The idea of this person earning millions of dollars a year doing this as his 'day job' are absurd.

I would imagine someone in the market for a five figure piece of art would do some research and find out if the guy is known producer in that field, etc. but hey that's me and I don't have 100's of BTC to spend on shit like this...lol

What's super fucked up about this is if you bought something for $10,000 and it turns out it's only worth $8000 meh, not the end of the world, but based on the accusations being made here I'd be surprised if you could resell these 10k+ pieces for anything more than a few hundred dollars at most and that sux for the people that bought it.

Without a contract I'm not even sure what legal recourse you would have.  I'm pretty sure forum posts would not be admissible as evidence in a civil lawsuit to prove that the guy misrepresented himself and is a thief.

What a world.

ig

Update: I scrolled through WoodCollecters posts and found this:

https://i.imgur.com/RqGlb4k.jpg

It is a Grizzly lathe. Piece of shit $600 unit. Nailed it the first guess from the little pic on the first page of this thread. ( I actually DO know about this stuff) Brand new even. Even the turning tools all look nice and new and pretty. Looks like he has figured out how to turn a weird looking bong and a couple flat discs to laser burn on thus far.

I will be back here to attempt to get access to video(s) of his hand carving of the same caliber detail of his products already posted on this forum.

Of course without that stipulation that I am required to leave negative feedback for nubbins.

I will give credit where credit is due and be completely neutral on the topic.

I have no skin in the game but I will not be forced to leave negative feedback where I believe it is not warranted.

Time will tell.

Would using something like this still be considered "hand-carved"? Honest question.  ???

Also keeping track of that topic, i'd be very surprised if something serious would pop up there, who knows...

I haven't done any wood carving myself, but i have worked with lasers on different materials, what i've seen so far i would definitely say resembles laser art.

Well let's see what he comes up with, since he announced he'd only show to "important people", i doubt anything will be posted in public.

As a matter of fact now that I think about it for more than three consecutive seconds the entire direction of this thread is the wrong approach.  If this guy is an artist of the caliper he claims to be how fucking hard could it be to verify him?  Does he sign his work?  I don't know any artist who doesn't!  How many people could there be creating high end pieces like this?

It should take about five minutes to vet this guy and see if he is for real or not.  To hell with pictures and videos he may or may not post.

Does he have a web site?  A gallery?  You get the idea.



ummmmm......THAT looks familiar

https://cryptothrift.com/auctions/collectable-art/94243/

Apparently you have to go to the "artists mecca" of Lake Havasu City to get a glimpse of his fine work. The "gallery" is probably in the third trailer on the left hand side of the street. The one with lots of crappy whirlygigs in the front lawn.  :D

I would think so. i sure as heck could not make something that nice or that precision on a lathe, when you look at it closely and see how perfect the grooves are and the way that the rings on the barrel are perfect and flow directly with the grain, my grandpa is a wood tuner and after 40 or so years of experiance was seriously impressed by that piece.
Not that my 2 cents worth here are really worth anything i had my day with the trolls many many months ago which left my reputation tarnished here on the forum but about a month ago when i accidentaly let slip a secret about coin number 10 in his collection that i was not suppose to know he offered to pay me 1000 dollars in bitcoin to remove my post to protect his clients and within minutes of doin so i had 1k usd worth of bitcoin in my waller. since i had some money at the time a week later i aksed to have an art piece made and had to beg and plead with him to let me pay with  a credit card it wasnt until a few days later when i looked at the paypal invoice that i realised who he realy is and a quick 30 second search on google confirmed he is famous for his wokrs in almost every country in the planet. reguardles of what a dumb troll wants to make acusations of, i for one am honored to have woodcollecter here on the forum and glad he found his way to bitcoin we should all be thankful for his presence not trying to string him up because 1 dumb idiot decided to be a pin in the ass after woodcollecter has already been here for months because it benifits nubbinz to tarnish wc's reputation to increase his own sales.

Would your Granpa be impressed with this precision dildo?

LMFAO! I thought the quips about dildos were just facetious, but now I see they were actuaally real. Hey look, hey even managed to get the spacing of the "pleasure grooves" almost sort of kind of close. This is one time that using the phrase "fucking ridiculous" is an exact term!

P.S: If your granpa thinks this dildo is quality lathework he does not know what the fuck he is talking about. This looks like it was made by your average 9th grader in woodshop. It is a complete joke.

FTFY

This thread is downright hilarious.  Enough so, I finally decided I should get a Bitcointalk forum account.

Anyone that's done any laser engraving would instantaneously recognize these things as etched.  Like nubbins stated, they're beautiful pieces, and I'm sure worth a fair amount, but the creator is misrepresenting the process in which he used to make them.   I have an 80 watt CO2 laser cutter/engraving machine. I've done quite a bit of etching/engraving with it, and its instantly apparent they're etched.    Now, that being said, they're actually etched pretty well. The laser is clearly well focused, and the depth is very consistent.  WoodCollector should have just sold the pieces advertised as such.

I shared this thread with a bunch of friends of mine that do a considerable amount of laser CNC work, and they all had a hilarious time watching people defend his work. The only "proof" I've seen so far are lathe tools (which you'd never use to do any actual wood carving) and a shitty lathe.   With all the talk about updating his clients with pictures of the work in progress, it should be really easy to shut anyone up that says otherwise.  

There is no artistic skill what so ever in gouging out rings on turning wood.  I do the same thing with brass on a 400 dollar lathe from harbor freight. I make mini cannons and thunder mugs that look like shot gun shells, all by eye... This is not considered "Hand Carved"


This is considered HAND CARVED
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQVo4oEizJA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQVo4oEizJA)

Well then who is he?  That's probably why he is so huffy, he's not trying to protect this identity(WoodCollector) he's trying to protect his real identity so his rep isn't tarnished from scamming people out of bitcoin.  That's epic.

I would like to know if the people that purchased items believed they were buying a one off piece because clearly he has more than one of the big BTC logo  one for sale.  How the fuck could they look THAT alike if a machine isn't making them?


https://cryptothrift.com/auctions/collectable-art/94243/


Seller Details
Seller:
WoodCollector
Feedback:
000Member Since:Jan 13th, 2015

If he chooses not to post it publicly I would then question why.

There should be nothing to hide here presuming his claims are true.

Perhaps you are right. But then again it wasn't me who left negative trust on him.

Time will tell if what he claims is true. I will wait a few days as he said.

In my opinion WoodCollector seems to either of been running an elaborate scam or is an actual wood designer that just saw an opportunity to capitalize and make a lot more money than what his products would normally sell for. The Dildo thing kind of just blows it all out of the water IMO, nobody making that much money would be wasting the time to make wooden dildo's for a couple hundred bucks.

From woodcollectors art thread.
Q: What kind of wood can i have something made from?

A: If it exists on this planet i have access to it. It does not matter if it is protected, endangered or practically non existent. I have access to foresters, brokers, and a swarm of people who can obtain anything i need legally for me with forestry permits and import documents.




I have a problem with anyone who would even say this...... 

Using "Protected, Endangered or Practically non existent"  wood used is not sitting well with me.

Even tho ever thing looks like stained oak.
 

I agree. Protected and endangered woods should not be allowed as I would think this would violate some laws in some nations.

I will be back in 2 days.

Sort of. I would consider this bong to be "hand worked". I would not call it "hand carved". That is a very specific thing, meaning you are taking hand chisels or scorps. etc. and carving the wood by hand. The "hand carvings" WoodCollector is charging big BTC for are definitely laser work. Turning some random shape on a lathe is not at all that hard, either. Making 4 legs for a table by hand on a lathe and having them all match exactly? That is a quite bit harder and takes some practice and skill. I went to school for and worked as a machinist , by the way. I worked Tool&Die for years, mostly making prototype pieces for GM. I minored in industrial woodworking, so I know how to set up and run real industrial woodworking machinery. I ran a production woodworking outfit for some years, and have since turned to homebuilding.
This is a card for when I had a shop in Golden, CO, ~25 years ago.

http://i877.photobucket.com/albums/ab338/JaggedSteel1/NVW_01_zpsbc0380bc.jpg

Sure it is, as long as this is a witch hunt thread, you better post some proof that that is you. I want to see a picture with that business card with your screen name wrote on it in pen on that same flag background. A video of you building a home, a picture of your diploma from where you went to school as a machinist. The name of your instructor. The name of your home building company and a copy of your contractors insurance to show that you are really who / what you say you are.

Dont tell me no now or you get your own scam accusation thread since that is how this forum opperates.

Some people were paying for a certain implied quality of work, despite the fact that many of them had nor way of really knowing nor telling the difference of a piece made via how the OP is claiming verses how WC is claiming

@ Terrahasher: I really don't care what you want. I am afraid you will have to find another monkey to jump up and down for you. Uhm Kay?

P.S: All I am doing in this thread is pointing out that the claims by WoodColloector that his pieces are hand carved are not that at all. If you want to argue about that , by all means. Go right ahead. Hell, I think you should even pay exorbitant prices to buy some.

So how much is that $14,000 piece he sold really worth?

   
   
"Culture Cultivation" Bitcoin Art Piece
January 13, 2015, 12:45:25 AM
   
Reply with quote  #1
"Culture Cultivation"



When freshly cut the heartwood of Purpleheart is a  dull grayish/purplish brown. Upon exposure the wood becomes a deeper eggplant purple. With further age and exposure to UV light, the wood becomes a dark brown with a hint of purple. The high grade Purpleheart that this piece is made of has a super high resin content that leaves it more purple than others after aging. This piece was freshly cut and worked by hand so it still has 5-10 years to fully age to its darkest color but will start to show its deep royal purples within the next week or two.




http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/purpleheart/ (http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/purpleheart/)

The Guy knows his wood...

There's a huge difference in price between machine crafted pieces and actual hand crafted pieces. He was just taking advantage of the lack of knowledge of wood working in the BTC community. It's the same thing as selling a counterfeit piece of art. The original might go for $1,000,000, but the counterfeit wouldn't even fetch a fraction of that.

Hi Paul, I'm wondering if you can overcome the skill needed using a duplicator?  WoodCollector talks a lot about lathes and mentions duplicators in his reddit profile: http://www.reddit.com/user/thewoodcollector

Basically this is a "White van speaker scam" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3B_KKyntQE about 1-2 minute or so he starts explaining it and it ends around the 8 minute mark

It is worth exactly what someone will pay for it. The issue being raised here is the claim that these pieces are insanely intricately hand carved pieces of art, which they are not. Cool? Yes. Neat laser engravings. Hand carved as claimed? NO.

Edit to add:


Most of the experience I have with wood turning is with duplicator lathes. I am talking about old school ones that follow a 2D (hardboard/lexan/aliminum) pattern. Even so, gauging by the turned items I have seen from WC thus far I would say that I have a lot more experience at hand turning than he does. The bongs do look fine, but they are just random shapes. Making a specific technical profile by hand is a whole different story, as you can see in the complete fail of the "pleasure rings" in the wooden dildo. It looks like something a kid would make real quick while the teacher wasn't looking, to be quite honest. I think I still have a little billy club of about that quality I made exactly that way when I was in middle school.  So, getting back to the specific question: No, a duplicator lathe would not help to make some random bong shape. It would however help to make 1,000 of them exactly the same profile. I do not see any indications of a duplicator setup on or ever being on that brand neww lathe of OC's, though.

Or this guy, but this guy actually painted the paintings. - http://www.cbsnews.com/news/art-forger-wolfgang-beltracchis-multimillion-dollar-scam/

What's the big deal? He claimed to have hand carved the pieces but used a lathe instead? So what? They still look pretty damn fine to me

extremely rare exotic hardwood

http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-EXOTIC-WOOD-PREMIUM-PEN-BLANKS-MIXED-VARIETY-COCOBOLO-PURPLE-HEART-TOP-QUALITY-/131019885688?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e8164cc78 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-EXOTIC-WOOD-PREMIUM-PEN-BLANKS-MIXED-VARIETY-COCOBOLO-PURPLE-HEART-TOP-QUALITY-/131019885688?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e8164cc78)

Nobody gives a rats ass about the weak cub scout skill level bong and dildo turnings dude. He claimed to be hand carving the insanely intricate and precise laser engravings which are completely impossible to carve by hand. This is what he was charging crazy prices for, not the lame ass dildo and bong turnings. That is the "big deal".  ::)

Have it your way, heres your thread, and rating has been left. Of course to be removed when you meet ALL of my demands.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=931472

LoL our local wood carver would even laugh at those half assed job. Oh i wonder if he even used his hands to carve something on those.

dude, wood collector,

oh well... not the end of the world man....you still
make nice stuff.... I know it's a tough pill to
swallow at this point, but i would respect you
if you had the courage to own up to the mistake.

I'll throw in a suggestion
I want nubbins to order a carving on a technical level he's happy with and woodcollector to make a video with pictures seems simple enough to settle, or a livestream with a set time so no one can complain about photoshop etc.  

Totally worth it it's amusing either way so no complaints over here with the finished product
I forgot to get the certificate of authenticity printed and shipped in the mail though.

Dildo's mate and Bitcoin who wouldn't resist that temptation we all know one of these days we will all be fucked by Bitcoin he-he shoves the aforementioned dildo into the thread


Apologies my lighting sucks
http://s24.postimg.org/qb1s483cx/20150121_001456.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/qb1s483cx/)

I'll see if someone wants to buy it with all the free press and comments about it :P (Even with all the fun stuff going on in this thread it just seemed like the perfect place to place a dick XD) (mmm I'll need to redatestamp that later as well lol wonder if anyone will bite)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=931553.new#new

nah dude...it's over.

was already caught red handed here.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=930649.msg10223134#msg10223134

obviously it's not all hand carved.  but just leave the guy alone...

Interesting proof , I would like to see a video of WoodCollector that is carving something ( if it is possible, but I don't think it will be a problem if he is honest).

I dont think its going to be a problem, after 2 pages in on this thread i could see Nubbins and his sock puppets were just trying to ruin woodcollecters rep because he considers him a threat to his own business. Just as posted above, Someone already pointed out that Delivery man REQUESTED that lion head specifically because of its symmetry and WC did an awesome job of copying it. Knowing what i know there will be videos soon, someone is going to re-nig on eating his hat and shelling out for a piece of his own becasue he is a liar, he will use some excuse like "i still dont believe it" like his disbelife makes it not true. then start in from another angle.

I dont think WC is following this thread anymore, not sure if he is posting the video in his other thread or on message request only once he gets them done, but i know the videos are coming, and i also know that the troll patrol is still going to have some dumb shit to say.

Did you not see that the owner of the piece sent Woodcollector that image to carve. HE sent it to woodcollector and requested he use that image!

I also know the videos are coming - he said he will be sending a video to me of the second coin he is working on for me. I may decide to share it - or I may not, whatever the case Nobbins is a plank.

I'm appalled to see that some of you think WoodCollector's business practices are acceptable. For those that have bought his work already, he's not legit just because you like what you bought. That's besides the point. The fact is that he deliberately lied about the work being hand crafted when it's actually done by a machine. That's just downright dishonest.

If someone sells counterfeit gold/silver bullion and passes them off as the real thing, would you be ok with it? How about paying you with counterfeit cash? That's the same level of ethics here.



Let's be real here. There ain't no video coming out of him working on a piece. If a video does come out, it will show the work as subpar quality.

Why the hell wouldn't you want to share it and clear all this up?

Because I am the one buying his works - if you want to see a video of his work being made, commission a piece and request that yourself as every other person who doubts him should.

Yes of course , but in this case it is better to make a video and after maybe he will receive a lot of new buyers. I think with a valid vide( maybe with the hangout ) they can demonstrate that he doesn't use a laser....

Stupidest thing I've heard in days, and I hang out on the bitcoin forum. Congratulations, a new level of idiocy. If someone shoved that dildo up your ass, you'd gush about how great it is at holding your shit in.

Ukcrypto (who has started harassing me in other threads) and terrahasher, both of you are cordially invited to jump off a cliff.

Exactly my point.  Since you own some of his works.  It would be beneficial for you to show the video so that WoodCollector is vindicated and your artwork is validated among the community.  It's not worth anything unless the community agrees it is.  And I'm pretty sure WoodCollector would appreciate his reputation being restored.

Wow I only just saw WoodCollector's work today and somehow found this thread that has totally blown up.

At least he delivers the goods and in my opinion they look amazing.

No doubt he is using a laser for some of the finish. That is obvious.

All his clients seem happy(?) and he just needs to start mentioning that he uses a laser engraver for some of the finishing work.

Case closed.

EDIT: I also think the title of this thread is misleading. He delivers the work and his clients seem happy. Calling him a scammer is going too far in my opinion.

Going back to what I just mentioned: if you bought gold and received counterfeit, you technically received something, but is it not a scam? The high value is in the hand carving, which he is still lying about. You yourself admitted that it's laser-created, not hand carved.

Haploid, you'll find that there are two sides here:

1) Rational adults who realized on their own that WC is full of shit

2) Rubes and shills who pretend WC is correct

There's no point arguing anymore. All the adults agree that it was a bait-and-switch, which is 100%, no doubt, a type of scam. Anyone arguing otherwise is either a shill, a moron, a sock, or too young and naive to understand that this forum is overflowing with piece of shit scammers just like WC, trying to pass off shit as diamonds.

indeed there is no point arguing anymore, you have stated all your thoughts including with evidence
so now lets wait for the promised video, then we can all start commenting this again

People create art with all kinds of different methods and techniques. The amount of time put into it does not equate with value in the art world. It depends on many other factors. It's not as clear cut here as someone selling fake gold. That is black and white. It's either real gold or not.

EDIT: Also I agree with you. He does need to state that he uses lasers for the finishing work and I agree he should have been honest about this from the start. I still like his work though.

https://i.imgur.com/6NCHoV6.jpg

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2013/311/7/c/black_bear_i_by_anastasia_berry-d6tc9mw.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/xRsc1iw.jpg

http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-77938414/stock-vector-heraldry-eagle-symbol-such-a-logo-jpeg-version-also-available.html?src=f2NocndTghW72vICmgBuGw-1-95

I know nothing about wood carving but is it possible to be that accurate to the detail with hand?

http://anastasia-berry.deviantart.com/art/Black-Bear-I-412078280

That one is actually STOLEN from a Deviant Art page.

STOLEN FROM A DEVIANT ART PAGE.

https://i.imgur.com/xRsc1iw.jpg

That one is stolen from shutterstock.

https://i.imgur.com/cWwlpls.jpg

STOLEN FROM SHUTTERSTOCK.

What a fuckin loser. Great job, BG4!

This thread is LOCKED until WoodCollector sends me a PM with a link to his video.

This thread remains UNLOCKED so the lels can continue.

It hasn't been locked yet so thought I'd jump in.
WoodCollector, your pieces look great but please can you honestly state whether or not you are using a laser engraver.
If not, please ask requested, upload a time lapse/video of you hand carving the pieces as you claim.
Unfortunately, it doesnt look too good for you with the current evidence being stacked up against you.

Please note the impossibly large size of those "chisels" (actually lathe chisels for his shitty lathe: http://www.amazon.com/Pc-Wood-Lathe-Chisel-Set/dp/B000FVEF6O (http://www.amazon.com/Pc-Wood-Lathe-Chisel-Set/dp/B000FVEF6O)). It is simply not possible that he could be carving the pieces with those tools. Look at how big they are!

EDIT: OP updated with the latest so people don't have to scroll through 11 pages.

I've looked at the "artwork" and my opinion is; it's machined.
Lack of attention in the details that a carver would have addressed.

If this is not done by a laser what causes the burn marks and the lines?

Probably the burn marks come from using his enormous lathe chisels so quickly.

I remember seeing one of these and thinking it was a pretty wonky job and couldn't believe the price someone had paid fir it (but I had no idea how hard it would be to carve something like this?). Whats the consensus on his actual talents? The coins do look excellent and very cool, but does all it take is creating a digital file to then sit infront of a laser to etch everything for you or is there more to it than that?

Yes, that is precisely all that is required. You hit Print, the laser etches the design. Booths at the mall will do it for you while you wait for about $20. Afterward, you can clean up the design by hand (which WC didn't -- see Paul Revere's post about the visible laser etch lines), and put some stain or lacquer on it. He really did put the absolute minimum amount of effort in.

Yes you're right, art has no clear value. However, whether this piece being hand carved or lasered it pretty clear cut. Like the gold analogy, this wood was marketed and priced as a hand carved piece (real), but turned out to be lasered (fake).

And it's debatable to even call it HIS work. The artwork seen in here are not even original, but rather just taken from various sources. This is even a potential for copyright infringement if he stole from the wrong source.

If he bought that eagle image from Shutterstock, I'll eat my hat. As if that's the one thing he'd have moral scruples about.

It is 100%, guaranteed, undeniable copyright infringement, and he likely charged hundreds of dollars for that piece. Shutterstock's lawyers will chew him a new asshole if he can't provide a receipt. If I were him, I'd delete my account and pray that none of my customers calls the cops on me.

I can't believe some people are still trying to defend him.  Crazy.

I don't really think anyone spent 14k on a piece. I think that is a shill to drive business on these smaller items.  If someone did spend 14k on a piece of laser etched wood.... well that money must have not meant much to them in the first place.

I'm not trying to defend him. If he used a laser and didn't tell his customers that it is wrong.

I just think the pieces he carves / lasers / whatever he does do look nice and at least he does deliver a product to his customers.

the entire point of this thread is that he used a laser and lied about the technique to his customers.  He was still denying it in this thread ffs. I think everyone agrees the designs look nice etched in the wood but that is totally beside the point, which is that he is misrepresenting his work.

Haha. I must admit I was surprised how fast he was churning these out. I have little knowledge of the actual craft but these pieces would certainly take a very long time to perfect by hand.


The people defending him are likely socks.


Yeah, he delivers a product but not one as described or what they thought they were getting.

THIS, A THOUSAND TIMES THIS

Even Paul Revere said his lasering was cool, in between chewing him out  :D

Actually I just found out someone did indeed spend $14k on a piece. Blazedout419 is no shill account, I've dealt with him several times. But the money he spent was before this fraud surfaced.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=864472.0

I am aware of what is being represented in that thread.  I am saying I am skeptical of the whole thing.  If that guy has 14k to blow on a small piece of wood then I guess maybe I am jealous, but it also pisses me off because of the obvious lack of value represented in this piece.  What I mean is that for 14k you could get some really amazing things and even if that particular piece was not horribly misrepresented it still looks like a piece of shit at that price.  Anyway.  I hope nobody actually got screwed that bad.

IMPORTANT:

I have received PMs indicating that WoodCollector is contacting his customers privately, and attempting to extort more money out of them by claiming that he will provide them with video proof once they pay their outstanding balance.

I urge any customers who have not paid in full to not give this scammer any more of your money as he runs out the door.

From another thread, bolded by me:

Hmm ok this is starting to sound bad...

WOW.

If the person who received it is happy with it and doesn't feel ripped off after this revelation then good for him, but personally I'd be disappointed with the actual piece before this controversy even if I'd had spent a few hundred bucks on it (just going by the pictures of the shoddy inside carving). The coins still look really cool, though.

Does anyone have any idea how much the wood he used costs? I wonder if he has been lying or misrepresenting that as well.Would be interesting to see his mark ups.

Sounds like someone found out it was a fuckin' scam, and they got paid a thousand bucks to shut up.

TerraHasher, the paid shill!

If he is truthful about the cost of the wood, it would be the only thing he has been truthful about so far. It would surprise me very much.

Yeah ... this gives to WoodCollector  a bad image here in the forum.  Now it is very difficult to "recover" his reputation....  however I would like to see that video (if it is possible).

Totally possible. Just ask him for a btc address and send him $1,800.

Really - most of his customers including myself pay in advance, he offerred to send me a video of him etching my design without asking for any money - i didnt ask him to offer this to me, he just did

Really .... no http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/nonciclopedia/images/1/13/Asd.gif/revision/latest?cb=20071018154810 , he should prove his "honesty" why someone should pay him ?  WoodCollector  take a piece of wood ( bad wood) and make something....

You won't hear from him publicly again on this forum. He'll try to grab some cash via PM on his way out the door and he'll be gone. Probably come back in a few months, or a year or two, with a new name and scam everyone all over again.

Anyone know what was in those redacted posts? A bit weird he publicly posted it rather than PMd (though I'm sure he tried that as well but panicked).


I think he's done here now. There's no way he could re-brand himself. People would see through it straight away. The only way he could continue or restart would be to offer his products truthfully as laser-engraved but I doubt the community will let him do that easily without a bit of hassle.

He's most probably still with us.
I suspect a few sock puppets amongst his "customers", you probably know who...

Could you share the TX id of your payment to WoodCollector?

I agree.  I think if someone paid a high dollar figure
and feels cheated, they should be made whole.... but beyond that,
there's no need to berate the issue.

Let's show a little forgiveness... we all make mistakes.

I'm not condoning the false advertising,
but the point has been made.  I'm sure he feels bad enough...
(And still think he should admit the mistake and apologize)
But let the guy get on with his life.

All scammers must hang.

I don't know , I  hope he can make this video.... but I'm not sure he can do it.

It's going to take a while to watch all those "make a laser etching look like hand-carved wood" videos on youtube  ;D

I think he did hang himself with all the lies.

I do agree with you that he probably won't be back.

Although its never too late to change direction,
there's a lot of egg on his face right now...would
have been better to just admit the laser engraving
from the first post here, but looks like he dug himself
a hole.

Whole thing is tragic... he made some nice stuff.

A video of him trying to fake carving some of that obviously laser engraved insanely intricate and precise stuff with a giant honkin' wood turning tool would be priceless.

He was indeed able to transfer stolen vector images to pieces of wood using a laser. On that, we can all agree.

it would have been interesting if the original
post was still here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=915488.0

was pretty funny.

MY SIDES.

Updated OP.

Let me be clear, I am not a sock puppet account. I genuinely am a customer of WC. I bid of Mazuma and lost due to some issues surrounding the ending time. WC PM'd both Ironman and myself apologised for the lack of understanding with the auction end time and offered to make me any piece using a selection of woods and any size coin i wanted and he would give me a 2.5BTC valued coin for 1.5BTC (which is less the price of the winning bid).

I chose to have a coin designed based on the ideas of Anthonopoulos, re: ant colonies   and he delivered a sketch to me and asked my thoughts on his design. I liked it and as such paid for the coin to be completed. He finished the design about 3 weeks late and even added some gold inlay on the rear of the coin as a surprise and at no extra cost, i was not expecting this.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=900692

I liked the finished design and he sent it to me and I received it around a few weeks later.

January 2, 2015 , 7:26 am
Departed
London, UNITED KINGDOM
Your item departed a transfer airport in Heathrow, London, UNITED KINGDOM on January 2, 2015 at 7:26 am. The item is currently in transit to the destination.
January 1, 2015 , 6:26 pm
Departed
New York, UNITED STATES
December 31, 2014 , 11:09 am
Arrived
New York, UNITED STATES
December 31, 2014 , 10:48 am
Processed Through Sort Facility
ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS)
December 31, 2014 , 8:14 am
Arrived at Sort Facility
ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS)
December 28, 2014
Pre-Shipment Info Sent to USPS

I decided to place another order and have been updated along the way and consulted by WC at various stages. He asked my thoughts on different detail and he sends me photos at different stages. As a seller of beautiful artwork I have been nothing but impressed. The finished Unity piece is immaculate and the finish on the word just perfect. I am a very happy customer and love the work he has made me.

I don't care if the graphics are from shutter stock, I paid for a unique wooden coin that i could hang on the wall, and a piece that no one else in the world will own, a piece designed and chosen by me to remind me of a new found passion of mine, Bitcoin  Its the reason I have lurked these forums for the last 15 months. In my time here and on reddit i have seen scam companies come and go, companies and people that do not start off as scams but often turn into them come and go and it will be the downfall of Bitcoin.

This thread has wound me up, let me ask you - what customers of WC have complained about their purchases? What customers have said they have been scammed or feel scammed considering the majority are aware of these wild and unproved accustations and threads- with a screaming title of SCAMMER...You have dealt with this in the wrong way No customer has complained about their purchase - please correct me if i am wrong here.

I have seen photos of my second order and again its just what i wanted and again its a unique coin that i own that will be passed to a family member as a gift, to introduce him into Bitcoin as he is a lover of art, and that is exactly what i have - 2 pieces of bitcoin art that were in my mind bloody good value.

People saying he paid $1000 to Terrahasher as Terrahasher found WC a scam - not true, TH posted some 'surprise news' that woodcutter did want coming out yet as coin number 10 is a coin with a 500BTC price tag. WC for some reason wants to keep the surprise under wraps until he sells number 9. I believe him and the posts clearly reflect that.

Honestly, I am pretty sure you guys are in for a surprise but whatever the outcome is of this thread is I will be a buyer of his well priced pieces of Bitcoin related art.

And again to clarify, I am not a sock- in all honesty i couldn't give a shit if they were hand carved or printed using a 3d printer - i wanted and received some beautiful Bitcoin wooden art. Whatever the case, lessons will be learnt on both sides here.

you missed the part where he said he "knows people that will rain down hell on you"
if you cross him.

This is what I don't understand. As far as I can tell none of his clients feel like they have been ripped off. If someone wants a partial refund of course they should be able to get it. Surely there are actual scams where people do not ship any goods / run off with hundreds or thousands of BTC that deserve more attention than this?

The people calling scam have never even received any of his work.

Still I can't participate in this thread anymore as the witch hunt is on and it never ends well.

Good luck everyone.

Only three weeks late? Not bad.


So he added $5 of gold leaf to your $20 piece of wood for NO EXTRA COST? You got all that for the low, low price of 1.5 BTC?


Does not compute. I don't care if I received a hamburger, I paid for a steak.


Almost definitely not.

That's because they're a bunch of fucking rubes. If they don't feel ripped off, they should let someone else handle their personal finances from now on.

Yes lessons will be learnt, for every action has a reaction. You are probably young so have yet to find that out...Dont PM me, if you have something to say then do it on this thead. Stop being an idiot - i do not sell here, I buy. I don't care about my reputation here, i spend my Bitcoins that is all, I am not here to sell pretty printed pictures to make money like you do. You want to just call people out as scammers is bullshit. Potential misleading (never scammed anyone and always delivered seller) and you want to label him in that group of fuckers who steal peoples bitcoins is wrong. So fuck you as you keep telling me -  Let's just hope not too many other people leave you negative feedback over the coming months just incase you are scamming. Lets remember you haven't posted video proof of you doing the silk screening. Whats to say your business model is not a scam? Have you proven yourself here? I want to see video, photos, youtube advert etc?

Is there a good reason to believe otherwise about his good business practices?

My age, full legal name, occupation, home address, business website, personal and business facebook accounts, business associates, etc are all on public record in this forum. I have nothing to hide and no reason for baseless personal vendettas.

I strongly urge you to spend as much of your free time as possible to uncover evidence of wrongdoing on my behalf, and will occasionally chuckle to myself in the coming weeks as I imagine you fruitlessly searching for dirt on me.

Gibberish quoted above so I can easily link back to it, should ukcrypto choose to continue harassing me in the future.

Well, I sort of agree...but:

1)  He said it was hand-carved art when in fact it was done with a laser.
2) After being called out on the fact he was using a laser, fervently denied it and attacked those who said so
3) Even after being proven wrong by experts showing physical evidence (burn marks, line marks), as well as
all common sense, STILL denies the obvious truth instead of manning up to his poor judgement and deception.

Whether or not that makes him a "scammer" is left for each person to decide.  It is what it is.

LOL people are STILL defending him.  Hilarious.  Really.  You got ripped off. It doesn't mean you have to get upset.

I'm willing to drop the "scammer" tag and change the title of this thread to "DECEPTIVE WEASEL WARNING" if there's consensus.  :D

No. He's a scammer. Clearly so.

I am sorry, really I am but until you send a video link showing you wearing a tshirt with the words, 'I am nobbins' then you are a scammer to me. How do we know you are not outsourcing this to china? Without the video evidence, I conclude - You NUBBINS are likely a SCAMMER. I await the video link, until then - you are a scammer.

You believe WoodCollector is a scammer?

Are you retarded?

Give me about an hour, currently in the midst of another print job.

What's your t-shirt size?

Extra large...like that thing hanging from your forehead.

Here has been my experience if anyone cares to know.....  I commissioned coin #9 from WoodCollector.  I gave him an initial payment of 1 btc.  Three days later, all this happens. The deal I agreed upon, it was clear that I was signing up for an original piece of art.  I now believe, because of BG4's findings, that there is a good chance I will just get another internet image, so I would like to cancel. I believe I have this right and I should get a full refund, seeing as the original terms of the deal were not met(not authentic artwork).  WC is falsely representing his coins as original designs, and this is obviously not the case.

what a butthurt dipshit you are.  It was your brain that got tricked, you should be mad at yourself not nubbins.

WoodCollector, will you honor this refund? The customer says you misrepresented what you were selling, and he wouldn't have bought it had you been honest.

I have messaged WoodCollector regarding my refund request and will keep you posted on what happens.

This is exactly it.  I most certainly would not have made my purchase if I knew these images were being ripped right off the internet.

He's online right now, but probably too much of a coward to post here.

Did WoodCollector just pick one hater and pay him to stop hating? I'm speechless. This will just lure more trolls looking for easy money.

Rather than responding to his customer's request for a refund, or responding to the now-obvious allegations, he chooses to continue his childish avoidance:

Please do...it will be interesting to see if he has the integrity to honor this.

So at the end Has he made a video (maybe sent it through a PM  to one of the costumers)?  Or nothing ?

I remember about this now (bolded some interesting bits). TerraHasher knows about the interesting bit of information that he quickly deleted (perhaps he could tell us about it?).

Well he could but he was paid rather handsomely to not do so.

I'm kind of new around here but it seems to me that TerraHasher is WoodCollector.  Anyone know for sure that he isn't?

I don't think I have ever seen so many shills in one thread. I am pretty sure there is also one or two "double shills"

When you're dealing with fraud in the tens of thousands of dollars, massive fines and jail time are possibilities. I'd have a ton of shills on the payroll right now if I were him...

He paid one guy a thousand bucks to shill. How many people do you think would do the same job for $100?

I don't understand how he would go to jail over this?

Triple shills. They will troll you for praising you for trolling you. 8)
Double shills were soooo 20th century.

Because I am what I say I am, and not a fraud like your pal, I'm obviously able to produce the video precisely as you requested. However, I decided to modify your directions slightly so as to give our readers something a bit more entertaining than my hairy ass jumping up and down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LlLMKhArf4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LlLMKhArf4)

Maybe once this all dies down, I'll silkscreen a "how to spot a scammer and his shills" poster and have some of the proceeds go towards WoodCollector's victims who don't get their refunds :)


What, everyone's allowed to exaggerate but me? 8)

Well I would say that if someone were to be willing to receive $1,000 in exchange for silence I would think he would also be willing to keep quiet about the fact that he received as much money.

A lot of people shill out their signature for a lot less then $100 all the time.

well I was actually implying that a few shills were pretending to shill for one side of this "dispute" (to put it nicely) in order to make one party to appear to be shilling

Edit: clairity

I doubt it, but it looks like Woodcollector has hired people to do some 'promoting' for him and I'm sure these people would go a little further for a bit of extra cash. He may have even purchased some accounts or just offered them money to make a few posts in his favour, though it's hard to confirm or deny a lot of this stuff without other evidence coming to light but there's a lot of shady/suspicious behavior going on.

Google Cache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:VvW8KaFb_BkJ:https://bitcointalk.org/index.php%3Ftopic%3D915488.0+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Archive.today of the Cache: https://archive.today/Ba3YN

 :D

So a guy who won't even tell you his name wants YOU to be forthcoming and honest?

That message is laughable and is like a five paragraph signature of a scammer.  This just gets worse and worse for WC.

Who could he know to rain down all this hell if he is so fucking reclusive and never leaves his hole...errr...house.

Wow, sign me up for an elephant tusk footstool with ebony inlay and a rhinoceros scrotum top padded with Condor feathers.

I especially like the part where one of his escrow holders just so happens to be the "client" that bought the 14k dollar piece!

Fraud, Jail time.. Scammer tags..

Nubbins.. Are you on drugs?? This guy did not scam you.. You're just upset about a product you're not happy with for whatever reason..

Leave the guy alone.. You cant really achieve anything with this thread.. All you're gonna do is ruin your rep, all the while coming off like a whiney crybaby.

i would seriously doubt that blazd is in any way involved in any malicious way. He is very active in physical coins and miners threads. It would be expected that he would be interested in Bitcoin related art.

LOL! I don't give a shit what you think.  You literally sell accounts as a business in your signature.  You help scammers for profit. GTFO.

Sounds like you just don't give a shit about other people and would rather that nubbins allowed WoodCollector to continue misrepresenting his work. 

LOL whiney crybaby.  Good one.  I would hate to be one of those.

you are an idiot.

If you think he is somehow involved then why don't you present actual evidence instead of blindly speculating?

No actually I didn't speculate.  You did that on your own in your head because it is fucking obvious.  Nice try though!

If it is so obvious then why don't you post the proof? It shouldn't be hard if you aren't shilling/trolling

No you dumbshit. All i did was point out that "one of his escrow holders just so happens to be the "client" that bought the 14k dollar piece!".  The obvious part was the assumption that lead you to make.

Nubbins, you're awesome.
Can't believe you actually did it :)

Not EVERYONE has to be a shill, y'know  ;)

Can't believe he did what?

I'm not saying he is but I will say that since he is both an escrow holder for this scammer as well as being known for spending 14k on one of these he is most likely either the biggest victim, or he is in on it.

are you sure about that (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=905988.msg10007579#msg10007579)

why does blazedout have "silverwallets" as his website, but a bit-x signature campaign?

Good luck continuing to sell those accounts you scamming shitbag  ;D

Because he co-owns Silver Wallets but chooses to advertise for bit-x.

The topic of sale of accounts is not the topic of this thread so I am not sure why you are bringing it up. The sale of accounts is allowed per forum rules, if you have a problem with that I would suggest you open a thread in meta.

---

---

since I proved you wrong about blazed being escrow are you willing to retract your statement and admit to you being wrong?

Sure I have no problem admitting that.   

I only read the WoodCutter's post where he said that blazed was doing escrow for him so that is what I pointed out. 

It turns out that WoodCutter never asked blazed to be escrow for him so they are not connected in that way.

I guess blazed is just a dude with way too much money and a really shitty eye for art.  My bad.

Nubbins delivers! I had never seen a t-shirt made before (except for those shitty iron-ons i did for this site in 2013), was very cool to see.

Also, I know blazedout from IRC pretty damn well. The guy has coins to spend because he has made some very smart business decisions along the way. You cannot fault a man for that, and anyone trying to rope him into this whole debacle is grasping at straws.

At this point, what does Woodcollector have to lose by "coming clean"?
And what does he really have to gain by continuing the charade?

Feels like a case of the emperor wearing no clothes.

 

I can't fault him for it and I realize I was mistaken about his being escrow for WoodCollecter...



but I would sure love to tease him about that $14k paperweight!  :o

Cowards never come clean, they just slink away.

Disgusting:


Great job screening your shills, WC.

Very kind of you to do some marketing for your mom while your out witch hunting. If she gave a discount i may stop by more often.

still keeping up the charade...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=932131.msg10231733#msg10231733

i guess a lot of posts were lost due to the forum disk failure.

Anyway, I'm sick of this thread...I'm gonna say my piece and
then this will be my last post in this thread (hopefully).

A lot of people were asking yesterday about how do I know
it was done by a laser.

The fact is, I don't know 100%.  Nothing in life is ever
100% certain.

But, I trust the expert testimony given by Searle421 and
Paul Revere...and I trust my own eyes, common sense and
brain.

This stuff is just too detailed and accurate to be
hand carved.  Even if possible, would take hundreds
or thousands of hours, which makes ZERO sense given
the fact that Woodcollector claimed to be doing this
in his spare time while running 3 businesses (yeah right).

Plus he kept changing his story.

First it was supposedly "hand carved", then was done
by "carbon paper", and then by "rotary tool".  

Do the research yourself -- google some images of
rotary tool carvings.  They are not at the same
level of detail.

Also, the stolen vector images discovered by others...

It all adds up to one thing.

Make your own judgement.

I feel bad for wood collector because he allowed
himself to dig a hole of dishonesty when he
could have simply admitted not ALL of it
was hand carved.  

I respect anyone who produces goods and
sells them in the market place, and WC
had nice stuff. But the denial, the
repeated lies, and the attacks on others who
would try to expose the truth were disgusting.

Finally, his reactions to the drama last night
did not have the ring of truth whatsoever. 
He was pissed off at the expose...
whereas I believe a true master
artisan would be flattered and laughing his
ass off in joy that people would be accusing
his hand carvings of being laser engraved.

But, I trust the expert testimony given by Searle421 and
Paul Revere...and I trust my own eyes, common sense and
brain.

How do you know they are experts? Serious question - you know them from Adam...

Also, the stolen vector images discovered by others...


What if he bought the licence to the vector images, does the licence not allow him to carve that image into wood? What about the vector that one client sent to him and asked he copy? That does not mean they are stolen.

I have no interest in further debate -- my opinion has been stated, and you are welcome to yours as well.

In a long post I made there were several places where WC made implications that he does original/custom work.

Which by his own admission by using vector images or stock photos he is a fraud.

Original work is like I already said...ORIGINAL...my coin designs (the background of my physical bitcoin designs) I proved yesterday that they were in fact original.

He never really addressed the fact that he assumed my work was a copy of other's works and when proven wrong decided to completely ignore that fact.

Very unprofessional given I approached him to get facts from him about his work before making a judgement and the fact that he expected nubbins to do the same thing I did, then he goes and throws me under the bus.

LazerViking deserves a refund in my view as the precedent that the work was custom/original was false as he misrepresented his work to be original/custom when they are obviously not.

If you want to rely on google then rely on google, don't rely on some nameless random person that you would never in 100 years trust with your own money. I am not trying to say that anyone is right or wrong, but the evidence presented by paul should be 100% ignored. If you can do that and still come to the same conclusion then you are free to call him a scammer all you want.

As far as I am concerned, all the evidence has come from people that cannot be relied upon. All that I can say with certainty right now is that nubbins thinks that WC might be a fraud, blazedout419 is a happy customer and that OgNasty thinks that WC's art is "beautiful" other then that I can say nothing.

@LazerViking - I agree that may be your conclusion however I cannot say with certainty that is what he would do. If you do decide to move forward with the purchase I would highly recommend insisting on escrow with strict terms that would allow funds to be released to WC.

@smoothie - I hope you realize that I am not trying to defend him and am trying to avoid the "mob mentality" as much as possible.

I did notice that all of the quotes you mentioned all off the pieces except for number 9 which is what LazerViking purchased.

I am also somewhat confused by him claiming they were his original designs as his customers were giving him outlines as to what they wanted their pieces to look like

I understand that don't worry.

EXHIBIT A:

10 coins of 2015?

Original design just came to him? Or from google?

Exhibit B:


The design he created was inspired by UKcrypto? UKcrypto + google?

Exhibit C:


Custom designed for them...ok.

Exhibit D:


LazerViking? Care to comment?

Exhibit E:



Once again he uses the word create when talking about designs for his art. To me that implies custom/original work.

Smoothie.. Seriously really? I gave him some ideas - eg/ Read up on Andreas Antonopoulos speech about the leaf cutter ant and design me a coin based on what you read. He designed me a unique (does anyone else in the world have this design on a big wooden coin) coin that I have never seen before, that hangs on my wall and reminds me of my love of Bitcoin.... therefore as far as I am concerned, woodcutter designed the coin he produced.

Disclosure: I am a happy customer for WC who has commissioned more than one piece and will continue to commission pieces.

Smoothie - this relates to a user who setup a username similar to Woodcollector, like Wo0dcollector and PM;d people telling them to pay for their winning auction, luckily i clocked it and informed the winning bidder so he didn't get scammed - not sure what this has to do with your evidence.

EXHIBIT F:


This ^ basically says to me that he creates original artwork/designs as he uses words like "tailored", "speak", "directly", etc.

Did I say I didn't believe his claim?

I'm asking more for LazerViking's and other future customers.

He says he creates original work but then he uses stock photos/vector images and that is the basis of why he refuses to refund LazerViking his deposit because the premise was he creates original work which at least in some cases is not true.

I haven't taken the time to look at your piece but did he create that design from scratch? No copy paste or stock photo/photoshop?

that is what I am getting at.

Just to be clear, I communicated with deliveryman, the person who commissioned the "Resolute" coin, and he told me he was not aware at any time that the images on his coin were anything but original works of art made by WoodCollector, and was quite disappointed to find out that they weren't. Contrary to what WoodCollector is claiming, WoodCollector was the one who first came to deliveryman with the vector image lion design(exact image nothing changed) and presented it as a "sketch", not the other way around.

He didn't want his customers to get scammed yet he is keeping LazerViking's deposit on the grounds that he never claimed he did original work. LazerViking asked for a refund and got he middle finger from WC essentially.

Now he doesn't want his customers to get scammed but he can keep funds he is not entitled to even though he misrepresented doing original work when he supposedly doesn't?

Anytime an artist says they are creating a "sketch" that means they are creating a design from scratch (i.e. original work). Not copy paste from google.

Since when does COPY-PASTE = SKETCHING?

Simple...

Never.

Good luck with getting ash outta Ohio.

If deliveryman can comment on this that would help out.

Also if he could post PMs or posts/links about this claim that would be great.

@LazerViking post your PMs with woodcollector here where he uses the word "SKETCH" for all to see since the forum lost those posts in their hardware crash/failure yesterday.

I believe this is in regards to someone impersonating WC.  Nothing to do with me.

True. That wasn't what I was getting at.

He didnt want others to scam his customers out of money but with you he is essentially stealing/scamming you out of your money (in my view) based on misrepresentations of his work being original.

Ok I will try to dig up some quotes regarding him using the word "sketch".

earlier on, i have commissioned a new piece from woodcollector and now waiting for it to be completed, we have discussed and agreed that it will

be delivered to me this coming feb. Already paid in full too.

I have no issue if its hand-crafted or lasered, as long as there's no infringement of copyrights/tm(no legal issues) etc..

i think its worth the price tag e.g. the coin mintage for 2015 is only 10, individually made, from wood( the maths: ~4btc/$800 per coin for a

10 mintage max 2015, with different designs each)..