Why Turkey and chicken rather than pork, beef, lamb, organ meats and/or other kinds of meats - including fatty meats?  What is wrong with fatty meats?  Do you believe that low fat diets actually are a good thing? (especially when it comes to animal fats?)

Yeah, I can understand avoiding some kinds of fats, such as various kinds of artificially created fats like seed oils. but being steered towards turkey and chicken as the main nutritious land-based meats seems problematic.


Why skimmed?  Why not full fat and/or raw?  Yeah, there is a preference for processed.. and yeah, there is a propaganda against fats.


I agree that salmon is probably pretty good, especially if referring to natural fats that it has.. yet is there a problem with other fish and seafood?  yes we have some potential mercury problems and even farm raised with some of the various kinds of seafood.


again, why low fat?  why processed?  Why not raw?  I know raw has been vilified all around the world, and I am rarely consuming raw dairy based on the same kinds of difficulties in obtaining it..


At least you seem to be referring to the whole egg.. I am not sure if it needs to be cooked or how it is cooked matters so long as it is the whole egg, and some folks get into the egg white nonsense.. again issues with the yolk which is probably the most nutritious part of the egg... .. but yeah, probably in the end eating both the yolk and the eggwhites together would be a good thing no matter how that is accomplished.. and probably grass, bug fed and naturally free range chickens have better eggs than grain fed chickens, though surely all eggs likely have decent nutritiousness.


Again. look at your nonsense about a preference for low fat.. including which parts of the chicken that you are choosing.. surely there is some bad propaganda weaved into this advice that you are giving and relying on a supposed expert of a doctor, which surely I would question doctors in terms of their abilities to give nutritional advice, especially if they are getting schooled under some of the nonsense standards of care ideas around fat phobias and the various wrongness angles of the heart-lipid hypothesis that involve recommending against saturated fats and pushing artificial/substitute fats instead of acknowledging the nutritional benefits/advantages in various natural fats (including animal fats and saturated fats that are included in those) - including attempting to suggest that there is healthiness that can be found in processed foods - including overly allowance of carbs to substitute for meats and the pumping of various plant based proteins that sometimes substitute for meats, which likely has some of its own problems with the various plant-based protein products.. around soy, corn, wheat and perhaps some other attempts at protein substitutes and other ways to fill foods with inferior ingredients in the name of science (and surely profits too).
 

Yes.. eating "healthy" is a good idea; however, if you are spouting out wrong talking points about what is healthy, then that may well end up NOT being so great, even though there could be some truth that some aspects of your low fat baloney might still have some advantages at least if there could be some agreement that eating natural foods is likely more healthy than processed foods or that there are several advantages to stay away from complex carbohydrates (referring to high sugar products).. but still you seem to be lacking in some of your attempt to figure out what is the difference between healthy and not healthy and just spewing out some standards of care talking points that have a lot of disinformation within them that seem to be linked to wrong-thinking about the heart-lipid hypothesis and perhaps an overly allowance of processed foods.. even though your specific recommendations do not seems to specifically go down that road..


First, how do you know "a lot of guys are faking their pushups?"

Second, how do you define "a lot".. more than 10%, which would be around 4 guys in this particular instance of our currently having 40 pushers who are included in the table?  Or are you referring to guys outside of the table too?

Third, is the lessen about the value of eating protein?  I am not disagreeing with that, but then what other aspects of our diets might we consider?  you have any ideas/opinions about fats?  what about other stuff?  Do you consider that just eating proteins is the key or what else might be going on in terms of diet?.. so yeah the three components of diet, sleep and exercise.. and surely pushups could cover exercise to the extent that there might be other kinds of exercises (or activities) that might be weaved (and vary) into the lifestyles of guys who are currently participating in these pushups..

Fourth.. maybe another side point in regards to considering that not even a lot of guys seem to be participating in these pushups.. or participating in this thread... if currently, we have 40 guys on the table, and how many guys who are not on the table but still may well be participating.. maybe only 10 or perhaps we could have up to an additional 20 guys who might be sporadically doing pushups or who had been doing some of these pushups at various points since this thread started nearly 4 months ago, so it might be really difficult to end up getting up to 100 guys to submit reports in order to end up on the table...

Fifth, getting back to the faker idea, surely it may well be better if they were not fakers, but I would consider quite difficult to verify, so why get worked up about it.. or even presume faking to be a predominant and/or prevalent phenomena.... and if we might confirm someone as an actual faker and we have evidence or the logic of the story does not add up, then what should we do about it?.. If we were to end up having a certain percent as pushup fakers, then maybe we would need some extra non-fakers to make up for the existence of fakers... Maybe there could be a label of "suspected faker?" even though I am not sure how helpful that would end up being or how we might differentiate the ones we consider to be fakers from the non-fakers.


Do you consider the latest dietary recommendation post of what Smilevictorobinna posted as being a good way to think about what kind of eating is "healthy?"  or do you have any other thoughts on the framing of what might be considered to be "healthy" eating.  Surely, I am not going to deny that some aspects of what Smilevictorobinna mentioned might well be considered as reasonably healthy, but there are a lot of problematic presumptions contained in both what he said and even that he is proclaiming that what he said might be more valid since it is coming from a "doctor," which I am not even going to assert that a large number of doctors would not say such a thing, since a lot of them are actually spouting out various standards of care talking points about healthy living that are likely influenced by interests that may well not be as scientific as they claim to be and also not as concerned about our actual health as they claim to be.


I surely may be repeating myself, but likely there is nothing wrong with that, especially since I think that there is an important point to be made in regards to what might be considered similar or not similar to pushups.. .. which I would think that there should be some attempt to stay within the spirit of the pushup to the extent possible... while at the same time, I recognize that some of us are likely going to have differing opinions regarding what is similar to the pushup and what is not.. so for example, some things are surely not close to the pushup, such as trying to take 100 sips of coffee per day, and so there may well be some areas that are not disputed as much, and surely there is some aspects of stairs that might be similar to pushups in terms of their lifting the body up but surely using a different part of the body.. mostly legs.. but the way you seem to be doing them seems to be more of a cardio thing (as you even admit), and I was getting the sense that your earlier planks were somewhat closer to pushups at least in the sense of having the core strength element contained therein and there might be some aspects of arms and chest that could be within planks depending on how they are done (in terms of position that might be attempted to be held.. whither using arms and even putting pressures on shoulders and/or chest).

At the same time, I still believe that the spirt of the idea of pushups is not very much focused on cardio, even though surely there are some cardio components to doing pushups... and there could be some emphasis on the cardio component of pushups when someone is trying to do high reps and low weights (and maybe even modifying pushups in that way), even though it may also be difficult to avoid a certain amount of strength spect that seems to be a part of most pushups even if they might be modified and attempted to do with quantity and speed... so to me, pushups are not really so much within the cardio category of exercises.

Also, another area of repetition may well be to say that the older that we get, the more likely that we need to attempt to gravitate towards resistance and strength training since we tend to lose muscle mass as we age and cardio focused exercises would not be helping us out very much in regards to an area that we really need to attempt to safeguard both the loss of muscle mass and potentially even some needs to try to build some muscle mass, even though some of that may also be difficult to accomplish through cardio and also without specifically trying to pay attention to the way that we might be attempting to focus our exercises, especially as we get older..

And yeah philip you old duck, none of us an avoid the fact that each of us is getting older, and even recognizing and/or appreciating that it can be quite difficult to either get into some routine that attempts to emphasize resistance training and not to overly slip into temptations to do cardio. which surely seems to be a quite common error.. and surely even some guys here (including uie-pooie) might not even agree with this assertion that I am making, but you are not going to find me backing down from it, even if you want to argue that "cardio is better than nothing," which I would not disagree regarding that assertion, even while I continue to proclaim that all elderly and getting older folks likely need to attempt to have some various forms of resistance training in their routine if they want to try to lessen some of the body's aging tendencies to lose muscle mass and to become more and more difficult to build muscle mass.


I am glad to see your participation in this thread CoinMin3r, and I saw from one of your other posts that you have been in bitcoin for nearly 10 years.. . which surely is shown by your forum registration date.. and yeah, if you had been more of a reader than a participant in the forum, then maybe you might have had been missing out on a lot of potential with the forum, and there still could be good things for you to get more actively involved in various aspects of the forum - even though a quick review of your account I see various shitcoin participation and even gambling, but still, there might be areas in which you can participate and maybe we can argue about if you might start to figure out the value of bitcoin and even the value of long term investing rather than fucking around with shitcoins.. at some point...  perhaps? perhaps?.. but I also understand that sometimes it can be more difficult for some of the members who have English as their non-native language to really feel comfortable with batting around some of the bitcoin-specific topics that are in English.

Oh, and regarding your pushups, I understand that you might not have time to do a lot of sets in a day, but there may well be ways to increase your pushups by doing fewer per set and doing 3-5 sets per day.. and then working your way up to higher numbers of pushups per day.  Yes, I understand that any of us are likely going to be sore in the first month or two doing pushups, and the older we are the more likely that our recovery times might be longer too.. but yeah, I also understand that some guys might have schedules that don't really allow them to do very many pushup sets in a day.. and even sometimes I get into so activities that make it more difficult for me to fit in some pushups..

For the most part the rule of thumb is to be keeping some value, such as emergency fund, float and/or reserves in dollars (or your local currency), and there are empowering reasons to be doing that, even if it might seem as if having so much money in dollars (or other fiat) is not really working capital.

At some point, a person might be so far above and beyond his own fuck you status that it no longer matters in terms of some of the employment in good cashflow managing practices, so in some of those regards, there could be some tendencies to just spend however you like and whenever you like without worrying about from where you are drawing your funds... .. yet there still could be limits, so lets say that the guy who had established that he needs 5 BTC to live and to be at fuck you status, but if he has 20 or even 50 BTC, then he has even more room to be flexible in his spending of bitcoin, even though it probably would still be better for him to engage in solid cashflow management practices, so sometimes the amount of need for discipline could end up going down if the wealth grows yet the spending is still way within sustainable limits even if the spending might be coming from places like bitcoin rather than from cash.  .. such as the ideas to spend your cash and your worst money first.... but if the value is so excessive and the budget is still well within sustainable limits an emergency fund might not even be needed to be kept when a person has already overly reached various wealth building goals.. whether having the wealth in bitcoin or in other places.. or even the person who might choose to keep all of his value in bitcoin, but if he is 5x to 10x higher than his fuck you status level, then there might be a so much extra room for error that it does not matter too much... if he might end up drawing from BTC funds even when BTC is at its lowest price points in a cycle... so for example in late 2022 when bitcoin prices were $15,500 to $17k, maybe a person with less than $500 costs per BTC does not really care, especially if he might have way more BTC than he needs, maybe even more than 100 BTC.. so a lot of cushion in his wealth...


Yeah but Frankolala was not talking about selling BTC for emergency funds, but instead using the extra BTC funds as part of his emergency funds.


Generally, I think that it is still preferable to engage in better cash management practices, even if you have excess value, but you get more and more freedoms the higher your value gets, so you may well not be needing to be as strict as you had been in the earlier days, but the mere fact that you can get away with not being as strict does not necessarily justify engaging in sloppy practices.. even though sometimes some extra risks might be taken (and even afforded to be taken) based on various aspects of having excess wealth, whether held in bitcoin or otherwise.

That still seems to be a misleading way of talking about anticipated BTC price performance, and even though there might be some technical truth that the probabilities of UP might be better the longer the time period, but even if the probabilities are higher, that still does not cause the long term to be guaranteed to be higher, even if the probabilities suggest that it should be.

There's gotta be better ways to present ideas about the advantages of long term investing versus short term thinking without devolving into ideas that the long term is more guaranteed to be better than the short term... even if technically what you are saying is not exactly incorrect, but the use of the term guaranteed comes off as misleading.

One thing about investing for the long term is that a relatively modest amount invested could end up adding up to a lot invested, so even though in the short-to-medium term, there might be some difficulties in measuring the amount of value that is retained, but there seems to be a bit of a likelihood for some kind of an upward price trajectory that could happen somewhere down the road.. or mayb even several upward price trajectories, so even someone who is investing relatively modestly, might be able to measure a lot of progress from the over the years modest contributions that end up outperforming other places that the value might have had been kept.. while at the same time, it is not guaranteed to actually go up in value.. but that is true with any investment that we choose to allocate into, we might have some investments that outperform other investments.

We hope in the end that we ended up picking a mixture of investments (hopefully not shitcoins) that put us into a better position than if we had not invested and/or saved.. but again, no guarantees and we attempt to do our best, even if there might be a large number of weeks that we are ONLY able to save/invest around $10 into bitcoin and then maybe there are other weeks that we are able to save/invest $100 or even $1k into bitcoin, so there may well be quite a bit of variance in our cashflow (and/or our disposable income) that affects how much we are able to save/invest, so that in the long run the variable amounts of value that we injected add up but they also may well have ended up holding their value pretty well as compared to other places that they could have been put and/or they might have ened up appreciating in value as compared with other places that the same value could have had been put.

The best case scenario of 66 days (slightly over two months) is still quite a bit of days remaining to get all of the 2021 prices off of the table.

Surely we have a strange phenomena going on in these here parts.  There were a few members, including vapourminer, who were largely trolling this thread, yet surely vapourminer engaged in his trolling in a good spirit that so far has included paying attention to this thread and meriting various members for their pushup reports and/or whatever else he might have had deemed to have had been merit worthy.. so the mere fact that he continues to pay attention to this thread does not necessarily want to do pushups (whether his stick body can do it or not might be another story)...

So anyhow if he had wanted to do pushups, report them here and/or otherwise participate in pushups, he likely already would have ... but yeah surely it might not hurt to ask him to participate, yet if you had read his various posts in this thread, he was not necessarily considering doing such a thing.. or at least admitting that he is doing it.. .. but yeah, whatever, I mostly just wanted to suggest that some of you guys seem to be reading too much into vapourminer and his otherwise participation here, and even in seemingly opposite ways.. but yeah, maybe you will end up convincing him that there might be some advantages in terms of his personally participating in the activities of this thread.. and so I would not be completely shocked, even though he has already largely stated the opposite and even making fun of this particular topic beyond observing it.. like the guy who likes to go to watch certain kinds of sports because he might know someone who is participating or that he might have had been drug kicking and screaming to such an event (and kicking and screaming is about the most physically active that he gets), but does not really envision himself engaging in such sporting activities.


I am glad that you are continuing to run a mostly "tight ship," even if I initially misinterpreted the point that you were making... I thought that you were wanting us to engage in the solving of a puzzle that potentially went even further than the pushup table, which yeah, maybe that is still part of your objective for some member to be able to potentially solve such puzzle (and nothing wrong with that), and maybe some reviewing of the historical data (perhaps comparing past tables) would need to be carried out by any of us who might want to try to figure it out who the mysterious missing pusher upper might be.. besides it should be more obvious if some pusher is expecting his name to be on the table and the name is not included therein.. so that could be a kind of hint that there might have had been something wrong with the format and/or the substance of his/her pushup report...

I am speculating that the format of the pushup report for that particular member might have been sufficiently acceptable that the results got the name and results included into the table, but there was something that seemed off about the results, so therefore, some "invisible hand" that was not coming from from a mean guy named Guido took care of the matter.  On the face of it, that seems to be a good thing..

At a glance, I did not see the missing pusher.. and so another comment about currently having 40 pushers, it would be interesting if we could get 100 pushers by the time we were to get to 100k. I am not sure if it is possible, but maybe the BTC price is not going to reach 100k until we reach 100 pushers?  Just a thought.

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100k,JayJuanGee,114,22775,2024-05-28

By the way, with my own report, I had several days of falling below my average and then having to catch back up... so I have been just experiencing some ongoing internal dilemmas questioning if my average might be too high.. and perhaps even somewhat counter-productive.. and so that is comparing my pushups with my other daily activities too..

Just because you do not recognize and/or appreciate the practicality of buying the dip does not mean that it does not have its place and/or benefits.

For example a brand new person could come into bitcoin right now, and he already knows his budget.  He has $9,400 that he can buy bitcoin, right now and he also has about $2,600 that is going to be available over the next six months.  So that is $12k over 6 months.

He could buy $9,400 right now at $68,300-ish, and then just DCA with the other $100 per week over the next 26 weeks, or he could set aside some of his $9,400 to be included in his DCA amounts or to set some of it aside for buying on dips. 

Let's say that he decides to lump sum buy right now $4,700 and then maybe he sets up 17 buy orders every $1k dip from $67k down to $50k, so each of them would be right around $276.50, and so they would be buying on the dip if they were to execute, and if they do not execute and the BTC price moves up rather than down, then maybe after a certain time, he might choose to remove those buy orders or maybe he moves them up. to higher prices (but they would still be buying on dips.. and whether that is practical or useful might not be agreed about whether that is a good idea rather than just lump sum buying and/or adding to DCA... and the mere fact that someone wants to employ that third technique makes it a valid technique even if it may or may not be one that is as effective as other techniques.. in part depending on what the BTC price ends up doing, which is not very knowable in advance.


You make a lot of presumptions about poor versus rich, and of course, even within the categories there is going to be a lot of variance in terms of disposable income, other investments and even investment behavior - including considering whether we should assume levels of interest in regards to bitcoin to be the same or not.

Usually, when running any experiment between kinds of people, it is better to figure out which of the variables might be similar and which ones might be different, and if there are too many variables, then it makes it a lot harder to make generally sweeping comparisons and/or presumptions regarding how one might compare to another.

It might even be helpful in terms of what you are considering to be rich versus poor and perhaps starting out with something like disposable income and also a description of already existing investments.  Those would be the main categories, then from there we might describe someone who chooses to be whimpy or aggressive in his bitcoin investment journey, and are we starting from now, or are we giving an example over a 4-5 year period of time (in which we have some BTC price data) that already exists.

Getting to a point of over-accumulation does tend to result in a lot of options that were not otherwise available during the time that accumulation was still taking place, and a person likely gets from 5 BTC to 6 BTC after a decent amount of hard struggles.. and sure there sometimes could come reassessments that end up allowing conclusions that 5 BTC is enough - and then recognizing that he has 6 BTC..

In regards to your suggestion that the extra BTC could serve as an emergency fund is not completely off point, since whenever anything is extra there are options with it - yet still it does not tend to be good practices to have your emergency fund denominated in something other than your own local currency... which truly having BTC as part of your emergency fund could lead to selling some of them at price points that are not very convenient.

But yeah even having 6 BTC rather than 5 BTC could cause the HODLer to feel comfortable to begin some kind of a sustainable withdrawal strategy - especially since he has extra BTC.  Even with a 6% withdrawal rate, there could be 0.025 to 0.03 BTC withdrawn every month... and it would take quite a while (several years) to deplete the amount down to 5 BTC.

Maybe I am being a bit overly picky about the use of "Dr" or any need to agree to describing such status, even if some of the articles and even the judge had chosen to use such a title when describing CSW in ruling against him.  Sometimes courts will go out of their way to make sure that they do not appear bias, which might partly explain the court's use of the Dr title for CSW.


Beyond a reasonable doubt is a criminal standard, and so far, these have not been criminal proceedings, so the standard is not as high.. The standard in this Craig Wright (CSW) would be clear and convincing or preponderance of the evidence or some variation that is not quite as high as the criminal standard.
 

There are not very many folks buying that BSV crap anyhow, so I would imagine that it is is somewhat propped up.. but yeah, even those propping it up might not like the amount of bleeding that they might have to sustain to keep the price from dropping even more.

I am pretty sure that DirtyKeyboard's script only picks up the properly formatted report with the latest date - so your update from today should make it into his next pushup table print.

Surely the rich have advantages over the poor both in terms of the assets that they are likely to have and also the disposable income that they are likely to have; however, the mere fact of being richer than someone else neither means that investments into assets are going to be managed well or that the right kinds of investments will be chosen (such as into bitcoin), and so surely if we take a rich man and a poor man and we give them similar kinds of strategies, the rich man is going to have advantages, including that the poor man may well be able to catch up.

On the other hand, not all rich folks have good habits, so it could well be the case that poor people are able to catch up and even pass up some richer folks.. but sure, the poor folks still have to figure out ways to have disposable income, so it could well be really difficult for a poor man who is ONLY able to figure out ways to invest $10 per week into bitcoin to catch up to someone who ONLY sporadically invests $100 or $1k into bitcoin - but still the guy investing $10 per week is still doing better than the similarly situated guy who is not investing at all... .. and so yeah, we might choose ways to compare our own bitcoin investment performance to others or to compare our performance to other variations of ourselves, and there are likely going to be ways that the organized, persistent and consistent BTC investor is going to catch up, surpass and out perform other possible alternative scenarios.


What you are saying is not exactly accurate, especially since people likely come to bitcoin with all kinds of perspectives and goals, and surely if someone has already been into bitcoin for a while, then that person may already be filtered out as more of a long term investor into bitcoin merely based on the fact that he continues to stay in bitcoin.


I think that you are still getting at the option of whether a lump sum is even available... so if there is a question whether a lump sum is available, then DCA makes more sense, but if a lump sum is available, then for sure there are more options, but it still might make a certain amount of sense to spread out the lump sum rather than investing right away, and if we go back to the example of someone who has an extra $3k... then there are so many ways to consider the matter, and it would seem short-sighted to completely ignore the availability of the $3k and to just DCA and buy on dips with it, since that would be presuming that the BTC price is either going to remain flat or to dip, so the more practical way of preparing for all price directions would be to use some of that $3k to buy right away, yet it is still a question of how much to use to prepare for up rather than preparing for down or sideways.. and each person has to live with their own decision, since there is not really any one correct answer, even though some answers (or approaches) seem more logical and reasonable than others... but people can still vary in their reason and also we might not completely know all of the reasons (the 9 individual factors) of another person without really knowing the person.

Of course, what guys are trying to achieve is going to vary, whether they want to improve, or get to a certain point in their abilities, or if they might want to just maintain, or if they might just want to be able to accomplish the task of doing some pushups every day (being able to do some every day may well be a goal in itself).

There also might be some goals to reach a certain point (or level) before changing the goal to some other point - yet it seems to me to be a pretty BIG task just for guys to add pushups into their routine and to continue to do them every day (or nearly every day) - which could end up being an improvement with what they had previously been doing...  I had focused on quantity and trying to spread out in order to lessen the amount of soreness, and then later I started to time the pushups so that I might be able to first monitor where I was at and then to try to do the pushups more slowly - but surely I mix slowness and not slowness depending on if I feel that I am caught up with my other goal of maintaining an average of 200 pushups per day, or if I might feel that I am falling behind in my average.. but yeah it took me right around 95 days of pushups just to get up to that average number..

I have my own dilemma about my current keeping of my average of 200 pushups per day, and even questioning if whether that is a good place to continue to try to stay.. and even the extent to which I am able to throw in some other exercises from time to time - or other kinds of activities that I end up counting as exercises... but it could be a bit unsustainable to try to keep an average of 200 pushups per day.. but I can still review my pushup logs and try to see some patterns in regards to the times for each of the sets.


I would imagine that there are always forum members getting banned, so there may well be an implication that the referred-to banned member is either someone well known or perhaps a participant in this push-up thread?  In other words, at this point, I don't know who and i do not have any guess.

My original criticism about appeal to authority was not ONLY a criticism of actually having some authority to appeal to, yet also merely making a claim about what "experts say" without even naming the supposedly specific experts and/or providing some kind of a link rather than just vaguely making a statement and then saying "experts say" as a back up.. even if the statement might have had been somewhat reasonable, it still was not backed up by much beyond some vague assertion that some supposed experts are saying that thing.

Also, when we are talking about what the BTC price is going to do, sure there are likely some folks who are more expert on the topic than others, at least in terms of having some reasons for suggesting that they know where the price is going, yet even with that, bitcoin price movement is based on a variety of variables and some of which are unknown or unknowable, so the best that can be made would be some kind of a probabilities of good or bad chances that the BTC price might breach certain thresholds within some kind of a designated period of time.

I don't really like to play into arguments that rich people are more privledged, since anyone could come into a situation in which they have lump sums available and they are willing to dedicate some or all of that lump sum to bitcoin investing.  For example they could 1) win the lottery, 2) inherit money, 3) have had been investing for 10 years and building their investment portfolio little by little (so they are not exactly rich, but they have been engaging in good savings/investing practices), 4) received a bonus at work for some kind of job they carried out (expected or not expected these kinds of things sometimes can happen to even less wealthy people), 5) they recalculated their various funds (emergency, reserves and float) and unexpectedly, they come to the conclusion that they have an extra $2k that they are able to invest 6) they received a gift from friend/relative/acquaintance and/or 7) a variety of other possible reason they could come accross extra money, whether that is some extra from their DCA amount or maybe it is a more modest amount


My problem with the idea of lump sum is not that it might not ever be an option, but instead many times members here are weighing the advantages and disadvantages to lump sump as compared with DCA, and it is not even obvious that DCA is better in those circumstances that a person has a lump sum that happens to be available to him, and even if the lump sum happens to be available, the amount of the lump sum could still be divided into any of the three categories of bitcoin accumulation to buy right away with some of it, to allocate some for buying on dips and to allocate another portion for DCA buying.

The person  may or may not already have DCA and/or buying on dips in place.. or alternatively the person might already be DCAing at $10 per week (presuming a modest budget), but then if all of a sudden an additional $3k comes available.. there might be choices to allocate $1k to each of the three categories, and that is not even the most logical conclusion, but it is a staring point, and each person might decide differently based on his own 9 individual factors regarding how to allocate that extra $3k that suddenly had come available.


We have to go with where we are at right now.  So if a person might be brand new to bitcoin, and he has an income of $2k per month and expenses of $1,500.. and maybe he already had been investing for 10 years, so he has an investment portfolio (non bitcoin) that is around $24k in value (which is right around 1 year of his salary)  and he has emergency funds and reserves and float in place, and so maybe he has $3k in cash that he can invest right now, or he can put some of that into the other two categories, but he already knows from his regular cashflow (disposable income) that he is able to buy $100 of bitcoin per week.  So he has to decide right now about what to to do with the $3k, and he cannot go back to December 2018 and he cannot even go back to December of 2022..

He has to figure it out right now, and if he is not sure, then he still has to live with the consequences of what he decides to do (or to not do).  What is so hard about it? It is about finding some kind of an acceptable balance, no?  The balance would need to be acceptable to him, and no one else.. no one, except for him, is going to give any shits if he makes money or not... or if he adequately protects himself or adequately hedges his options.. whether he ends up being overly aggressive or overly whimpy..  no body cares. He has to take responsibility for his own actions and outcome regarding whether and how to invest and whether to put it into bitcoin or somewhere else.. Is that difficult? If so, how?

Yeah sure there are a lot of dummies out there, including making their financial decisions based on unit bias type considerations, yet it seems that the sounder money is going to prevail in the long run, even though there are a lot of gambling abilities with ETH - and also the overall reality that it is know to facilitate the ease upon which a lot of other shitcoins would be built on top of it.


So what?  They are retarded, and their little plan works until it doesn't and then they are stuck with the common problem of selling too many BTC too soon, when they probably already knew that they did not have enough BTC, which is part of the rationale that anyone should ONLY start to sell BTC when they know that they either have enough or more than enough.  They should not be selling BTC with expectations of buying back cheaper, since even though you are claiming the BTC price is going back down due to sellers, one day their luck is going to run out and they may well have not have gotten themselves enough BTC to be prepared for UP.. ..

You can look at a lot of examples, even in the last year and a half at various points from $1,5479 until now.. there were various points that folks were selling on the way up, but they sold too many BTC too soon.. at $20k, at $25k, at $30k etc etc etc.. I don't need to list all the prices that folks sold too many coins too soon out of an expectation that the BTC price is going to drop.. and do you even think that there are good odds of going back down to those numbers?  

Currently, we are even having troubles getting below $60k and/or staying there for very long.. so good luck with waiting for even lower numbers as was the case with those guys selling coins at those various lower price points.


Additionally, almost every single one of the other coins are affinity scams, and since bitcoin is already superior in terms of the actually working idea.. any coin that would want to displace bitcoin would need to be at least 10x better than bitcoin.. if they merely were better in marginal ways, that would not be enough to undermine bitcoin's various network effects (referred to by Trace Mayer) that continue to grow with the passage of time..

Another angle is that bitcoin is replacing gold and the dollar and other various fiats and value storage asset systems because bitcoin is at least 10x better than the other various systems that it is replacing.... around 1,000x better than gold for example.. .. and yeah it is is a bit amorphous to figure out how much better bitcoin is than the dollar or than property systems that are being used as storage of value.


There is no reason to stop using Bitstamp.. especially when making a general BTC price reference and including what is the new local high or low or whatever..

Of course, if there were to be some reason to point out some kind of an arbitrage that exists, then nothing wrong with bringing up some other exchanges for that reason.. but not for just for price references..

since we already know folks get all excited to be citing various prices that exist at various exchanges and blah blah blah distractions when there is no reason to talk about those higher or lower numbers unless either related to Stamp or maybe if there might be something wrong with Stamp's price.. which surely could happen.. but has not really been an issue  in the last 7+ to 8+ years, and there had been some debate about using bitfinex and coinbase.. especially in 2016.. but gosh I hope we would not be wanting to use either of those references.. and good to also have Buddy showing the same thing too.. which happens to be Bitstamp.. . and if it is not broke, why fix it without some justification for doing so?


fuck aggr.trade/300a. and their soundtrack too.

 

It is still not correct to presume that the end-point for everyone is "profit."  Sure there is desires of long term investors to both store value in a way that may not lose value as much as other assets.. or to have some different correlation in terms of how the investment (bitcoin in this case) holds its value relative to other assets - which it the description of a hedge.

So there can be various ways to accomplish goals of holding value, hedging and even perhaps having more options down the road, while at the same time recognizing that there are scenarios in which bitcoin may well not hold its value as well as other assets  even in the long run and even when trying to not get distracted by short-term BTC price movements.


To me, it seems that you are not wrong in any of your specific assessments, yet I personally do not even feel that I know enough about how to get into specifics instead of just potentially having some ballpark ideas regarding known unknowns and unknown unknowns, and sure you may well be listing some aspect of known knowns- yet the world of probabilities have a lot of various kinds of ways of assigning percentages that may well end up having a certain amount of subjective elements that each of us have to account for when making our own assessments regarding how we are going to invest into bitcoin and also to prepare ourselves for various negative scenarios as well as the positive scenarios.

Someone who has already invested into BTC for a while (like myself) may well end up engaging in various kinds of hedging in terms of selling some of our stash from time to time, whether we do it in time-based ways or we do it in price-based ways.

The overwhelming majority of the world, perhaps even close to 99%, do not have enough exposure to bitcoin since they most of them do not even own any coin at all... and yeah, maybe 1-2% of the world own some small amount of BTC (or even they are involved in shitcoins and thinking that they have enough BTC exposure).

So I am suggesting that even if some of the various negative scenarios are out there and I am not even going into specifics of them, that still does not mean that people generally have enough BTC.. and most people need to get the fuck off of zero... surely there are some folks who invest into bitcoin, and they do not have very much value, so they are continuing to buy BTC as if it were to be guaranteed to be going up, and so that seems to be problematic in the sense that anyone who has a very bullish outlook on BTC, should still be careful about assuming that nothing but UP is guaranteed.. or they might concede that there is UP and DOWN in the short term, but in the long term, no matter what UP is guaranteed.. which also is not true..

In the end people can do what they like, and who cares about my various repetitions that it is good to keep in mind the negative scenarios too, even if you are mostly preparing for the positive scenarios.. but at the same time, does anyone want to be in the street if they do not have other resources besides being maniacally focused on investing into bitcoin and ONLY bitcoin?

Even with myself, I will admit that I likely have around 80%-ish or more in bitcoin as compared with other assets, yet my bitcoin got to more than 80% of my total investment portfolio holdings based its price appreciation and not due to my investing that much.. since when I got into bitcoin I only got up to around 13.5%-ish invested into bitcoin, and the rest of my investment portfolio could sustain me if bitcoin wer to go to zero.. Yet, bitcoin ended up outperform all of the other assets, and sure those other assets may have gone up around 70-80% in the past 10 years, while bitcoin went up around 68x.. .. so sure maybe my exposure to bitcoin could have had been even higher than more than 80%.. but even if it were to go to zero, those other assets can still support me... so I have investments in places other than just having everything in bitcoin.

"Technically," $67,484 or better does the job.

We already had this discussion, and surely I don't agree.

I think that guys can do whatever they like, and yeah, sure a certain level of quality and proper form should be considered in terms of what the guy is counting as a pushup and also if he might be trying to get some kind of improvement of his own physical health by engaging in the pushup activities.


You might get more sore than necessary if you put your pushup sets too close together - but hey you figure out what works for you.

Right now, after 113 days of pushups, I am able to do my sets closer together, but I pretty much need the whole day to space them out, and I am still very sore.. not as much as before, but still soreness persists. even though I am also having some measurable improvements, too.


I don't believe that 1% milk is healthier than whole milk.  Raw milk would be even better, but yeah, raw milk has been vilified, which is too bad.


However, your math is or perhaps your typing skills are no good.  You should have had 212 pushups rather than 112 as of your 2nd day.


There is nothing wrong with 3-5 sessions of 10-20 pushups per set.  Don't try to overly push yourself with the number of pushups in each set and the number of sets that you are doing each day.  You should give your body some recovery time, and also even a day of 3-5 sets might cause you soreness for 1-2 days, even if you do not continue to do pushups every day, but there is likely some kind of benefit to create yourself a system in which you are able to continue to do 2-3 sets every day, and if your number is kind of low shoot for doing 3-5 sets every day and maybe some of the sets you would ONLY do 10 pushups just to keep the habit of doing them, but not overly doing it.. .. and so it seems that you would be spreading them to through the whole day, especially if you are doing 14-15 sets, but it seems better to allow your body to rest more between sets maybe 2-3 hours between sets and shoot for 5 or 6 sets perhaps as your maximum number of sets in a day.

You are correct that the idea of discretionary income trumps the idea of some strict percentage to invest into bitcoin, even though both can be used as guidelines and/or even aspiration levels in regards to how much a person might want to strive to push himself to target for in his investment, but he still is going to be limited in terms of whether his target percentage is even achievable in light of his actual discretionary income.

So for example if a person knows his expenses are $1k per month, and if he is able to invest 10% of that, then that is $100 per month or $1,200 per year, or $12,000 over 10 years, so then we figure that it is going to take the guy right around 10 years to have had saved/invested 10 years worth of income into bitcoin... so that could help to target the amount and the timeline, but he still has to be able to do it.. so yeah, there cannot be contradictions, and when push comes to shove, there likely is still ONLY so much income coming in and ONLY so many expenses that can be cut.. even though people can work on attempting to being creative in terms of how they might be able to increase their discretionary income... so that it ends up being a higher percentage of their overall income/expenses... which means that they are likely to make more progress in a shorter period of time, as long as they do not end up overdoing it.


There is nothing wrong with engaging in techniques to improve DCA, which truly if someone is new to bitcoin, they might start with a certain weekly amount for their DCA, yet in the meantime, after several weeks, they could be figuring out various aspects of their budget and maybe how to employ their DCA better.  On a personal level, for the first year that I was in bitcoin, I tended to give myself a weekly DCA budget (or allowance), so during the week, I would try to maximize the buying on dips within the week, however, if I had not used all of the weekly allowance by a certain time of the week, I would just buy with the rest of it at that deadline time in each week, since my new weekly allowance would become available at the beginning of the next week... but yeah sometimes going through the process, with the passage of time, I was able to figure out some ways of employing my DCA that worked better for my own circumstances... but also recalculating my situation, that surely went even beyond the first year, since the strategies became different with the passage of time (as you suggested might become the case for anyone going through their BTC accumulation journey) and the fact that I had been accumulating BTC through the previous time and the details of that prior stacking in regards to how much, what was the average costs and considering whether my stacking goals were changing and/or close to being met, helped to inform any changes in my practices.

You might be mischaracterizing a bit my  own BTC accumulation journey, since I did not particularly go out to buy and/or accumulate bitcoin in a bear market, and none of us is likely going to know whether we are in a bear market or not or which way the BTC price is going to go for the short to medium term.

So any kind of suggestion that it is best to determine and/or figure out if we are in a bear market prior to engaging in BTC accumulation and/or aggressive BTC accumulation seems to be quite misleading  - and it could cause newbies to wait rather than getting started ASAP..

If you don't have any BTC, then what are you going to do wait for lower prices from here?  Or if the BTC price does not go down from here, then you are going to wait for after it goes up and then when it comes back down, but to where is it going to come back down?

I cannot see how waiting could be a strategy for anyone who might have assessed that he does not have any coins or that he does not have enough coins.

Sure, some folks might come to a wrong assessment that they do not need any BTC, and sure they can do what they like, but they are likely going to end up buying later and at higher prices, so again, why wait?

There are some folks who are worried about price dips coming, and perhaps those kinds of folks will feel better if they hold some funds aside for buying on dips, but even that seems like a questionable strategy for anyone who either does not have any coins or does not have very many coins.


You are saying a similar thing as Mayor of ogba, which is not what I say, and I surely don't know about what to do when the BTC price goes up... I am not recommending anyone wait, even if the BTC price is going up.. since we can never really know when the BTC price is going to stop going up and we cannot presume a correction, a dip or a bear market...

I am also saying that the longer any of us is in bitcoin and we are continuing to buy bitcoin, there likely are going to be periods in which the BTC price is going down rather than up, but we never know how low the BTC price is going to go or how long the seemingly relatively lower prices are going to continue to stay low.

So yeah, if we are accumulating bitcoin over a whole cycle or even over a couple of cycles, we are going to likely begin to appreciate better that there are periods that the BTC price seems low, but also the longer that we are in, we would have had already spent a considerable amount of time already buying bitcoin and probably some of the bitcoin that we bought is going to be at higher prices and some of the bitcoin that we bought is going to be at lower prices. .. so there is going to be a mixture of prices in which we had bought our bitcoin and we can calculate our average price per bitcoin too and we can calculate the extent to which we might be in profits or not.. so those kinds of calculations regarding our bitcoin stash size, its value and where we want to get are more likely to inform us in regards to what we are going to want to do... so it might become obvious in our own context, but not obvious in the abstract, and in the abstract my overall suggestion is just to keep buying no matter what the price for at least a whole cyle, and depending on your own level of buying, you may well need to just keep buying for a couple of cycles before you might start to feel comfortable to modify your approach in a way that attempts to calculate dips rather than just ongoingly buying BTC at any price within the context of your discretionary budget.. and not waiting for dips that may or may not end up happening..


Your example is not bad Troytech, yet I am considering that you are trying to suggest that both Mr. A and Mr. B have the same discretionary income, but they choose to spend their discretionary income in different ways..... so Mr. B is actually spending more money on luxury items of consumption.. so therefore he ends up with less discretionary income after he had made his choices, but largely they started out with very similar levels of discretionary income, especially if we were to really drill down into basics.  There can be some guys who choose to live in a house that has $500 in monthly expenses and another in $800 of monthly expenses, so whether we call the left over discretionary income or not, might be another story since sometimes life choices can take a while to change and even to figure out if it is possible to cut some of the expenses once they had been chosen several years back, yet anyone can still make changes little by little...and maybe even realizing that some of the ways that he is spending his money is actually discretionary, even though he might have had labelled it as needed expenses.  We might be belaboring some of these points too much.
 

Are you going to delay your investment into bitcoin based on your speculation that you might get scammed?  How much of a delay are you going to make?  Does the possibility that you might get scammed stop you from investing $10, $100, $1k, $10k?  At what point does it become more important?

Surely I am not suggesting that anyone is sloppy in their various personal safeguards, but there are likely levels of BTC accumulation that might be able to take place by holding BTC in various 3rd parties even prior to transporting to self-custody - so yeah, the larger the amounts of the investment, then then more urgent the need to employ higher levels of security... and those security thresholds are likely going to trigger at different points for different folks - while at the same time, it seems a bit problematic if anyone is failing/refusing to start to invest into bitcoin because they believe that they need to better learn things about bitcoin security.


Sure I am all for investing 10% or more of the income, but we cannot know if discretionary income is sufficient to be able to invest 10% in cases in which we might not know expenses and $200 is a pretty low income to expect (or presume) that such a person is able to invest - even though I know that a lot of participants in this thread claim to have income levels in such low amounts.


Of course, buy the dip, DCA and lump sum are three separate concepts, and sometimes they can be combined, but the mere fact that they can be combined does not mean that each of them should not be understood in terms of what each of the concepts mean on its own... is there a need to repeat what each means?

Maybe just in regards to lump sum.... it is an amount that you already have and you are considering what to do with it.  Buy all right away, or divide it up.

Another thing that a lump sum could be accumulated into the future.. . or there could be an amount of money that is being saved, but it is not really known how it is going to be used until at a later date... that money could be considered lump sum.. even though it also could be considered part of reserves that are building up and perhaps without any specific designation regarding how such reserves are going to be used - except maybe some kind of an event might trigger that such funds are to be considered to be used and/or maybe a whole rethinking of such funds upon certain future currently unknown events.. and so then some of that amount could become a lump sum amount that becomes available for the purpose of BTC investing.

We cannot necessarily presume lump sum to even be an option, since sometimes people come to bitcoin an they don't already have cash available and/or they might not even have other investments from which they would be able to employ lump sums, so sometimes it does not even make sense to presume lump sum as an option when it is not automatically an option that normal people end up having and even if they were to have some lump sum potentiality, they would first have to designate such amount towards bitcoin investing, which might be an actual obstacle for some folks in which DCA makes more sense for them since they are not ready, willing or able to redesignate some lump sum amount that they might have towards bitcoin investing.

You are not really wrong Ruttoshi, yet there still is some need to not overly generalize because surely even within classes of investors there can be some that are more aggressive and some that are less aggressive, which will likely affect the way they accumulate bitcoin, and the extent to which they might remain focused on maximizing their bitcoin accumulation and/or balancing other aspects of their lives and even other investments that they make (and I am not even referring to bitcoin).

Another thing that we know about people generally is that there are not a lot of people who invest in the first place, so really an overwhelming majority of people either don't invest at all or they have trouble even consistently conjuring around 10% of their income in order to invest into bitcoin or anything else, so in that regards, those who do invest tend to either put money into properties or maybe they have some kind of a retirement plan that involves personal contributions - which even the employer might match some of the contributions to incentivize the utilization of such programs.  In countries that do not have some of those systems, it is likely even more difficult to invest  or save, and if there is concerns about the debasement of the currency, that creates additional disincentives to keep any value in the local currency - so yeah, the investors into bitcoin come from a relatively small group of folks who might even learn that bitcoin ends up being an option that is superior to other ways that they might save or invest, so they may well become encouraged to invest into bitcoin and surely to figure out the extent that they have discretionary income that can be used for such purposes.



I agree with a lot of this to the extent that we still might recognize and appreciate that it is neither guaranteed that BTC prices will go up and there also can be some value to not become overly concerned about the extent to which the BTC holdings are in profits during the earliest of years of accumulation, and even to take it for granted that they are going to end up in profits, even though surely there is a preference that the holdings do end up being in profits at some point and also there is a hope that the BTC holdings generally outperform other places that value could be place - especially in the longer term, but none of that is guaranteed either.  So the position size and or the amount that is invested into bitcoin should be tailored to consider various potential scenarios in which bitcoin might fail to perform or there might be other better places to invest.  Yeah, surely many of us are likely continuing to focus on bitcoin, even though the strength of its investment thesis is not guaranteed to continue to be strong - even while it currently seems to be amongst the best (if not the best place) to put extra value (aka discretionary income).


You can do whatever you want. If you believe waiting and studying the bitcoin matter sufficiently/adequately helps you to prepare for up, then that is your choice.

If you don't start investing right away, then you are not preparing for up.

You might believe that it is not necessary to prepare for up.  That is your choice.

Another thing is that the mere fact that you are starting to invest, does not mean that you jump in with all of your savings and/or disposable income right from the start.  There are ways to start with a reasonable position size, and the less you know, the more likely the smaller your initial position size, including maybe the newbie just starts by investing $10 into bitcoin and the tries to figure matters out further from there in terms of the level of his  investment aggressiveness, the frequency of his BTC purchases, his own financial matters including cashflow and discretionary income and the other 9 individual matters, but each of those 9 individual matters is like a moving target in which studying them and learning about them is never completely completed.


Yep.. A lot of newbies fail/refuse to get started investing into bitcoin because they believe that they are merely serving as liquidity for others, and too bad for a lot of them who historically had thought that (and failed to get started) and those who continue to fail/appreciate the value of getting started rather than just waiting around for price drops that may or may not end up happening.


Yes.. and another interpretation of "observe" is to wait... which surely is not a good investment strategy - especially in regards to bitcoin.



There is ONLY so much that I can do in terms of presenting the ideas, and attempting to point out where I believe that your thinking is problematic, and sure maybe it is possible that we still arrive at the same place since we are considering similar ideas but instead placing some of the ideas in extra categories.

There is nothing wrong with prioritizing investments and even cutting various kinds of consumption that you do in order to increase your discretionary income, but still in the end, the investment is coming from extra money that you have that is calculated after you have considered your expenses, and the mere fact that you are wanting to give the investment equal priority (or similar priority) as compared with expenses that you might have is still likely coming out of the fact that you actually have discretionary income, even if you might be calling it something else... and maybe even if you are suggesting that you can go without some of your expenses and still be fine, which shows that they were not basic expenses but instead somewhat discretionary expenses and people are going to likely draw the line in different places in regards to which expenses are needed versus which ones are luxuries and also considerations if their body is strong enough to eat some foods with inferior ingredients that might cost less than the more nutritious options.


I had a few back and forth discussions with bitmover in regards to the two main tools in my sustainable withdrawal thread, so many times I had attempted to emphasize with bitmover and with other forum members that I presume that the context of using either of the two main sustainable withdrawal tools is to get your BTC holdings to a point of over-accumulation first, so it becomes more problematic (but not impossible) to use the sustainable withdrawal tools that I am suggesting (and within the context that I am suggesting them) without first reaching high levels of BTC accumulation and/or perhaps coming to an assessment that you had actually overly accumulated BTC.  

The two sustainable withdrawal tools that describe (one time based and the other price based) could also be used in some trading contexts - even though I do consider them to be more valuable when assessed from a perspective of having had already reached some level of BTC over accumulation.. so I am pretty sure that bitmover was considering my comments in that light and coming to his own assessment that he likely had not yet accumulated enough BTC in order to be starting to employ much if any BTC selling tools.. .. another thing that I frequently spout is that selling BTC is not a good strategy for accumulating BTC, and so it sometimes can take a lot of time to get out of the selling mindset since many of us likely realize that in theory selling higher and buying lower will allow the buying of more BTC than the amount sold.. but just because there is a good and/or reasonable theory that does not necessarily mean that it is a good thing to actually attempt to practice rather than mostly focusing on various buying strategies, such as DCA, buying on dips and lump sum buying.


I don't disagree with anything that you are saying surely guys might have some difficult times figuring out what there investment timeline is exactly, even if they might consider that they have a relatively long investment timeline of 4-10 years or longer.. or even 10 yers or longer rather than your example of 5 years.. but even at 5 years, there could be a concern about reassessment, even though no one should consider that he is so locked into his investment that he is not able to reassess and tweak from time to time, which also might be considering changing the amounts he is putting in and the timeline and other ways that he is managing his budget, and also if he might have some lifestyle  considerations that he is accounting for that causes him to want to consider that he might start to cash out of his bitcoin in 5 years or so rather than allowing the investment to ride for longer.