You keep using this white knight thing, but it still falls flat.  Show me one instance of me telling people that BFL is great, show me one instance of me telling someone to buy from them, show me one instance of my saying they are better than all the rest.  Sadly, you can't, because I have done none of these.  In your definition of a shill, I fail miserably.

@BFLrCONmen: m3sSh3aD, you are the one who has the multiples accounts and the load of BS you smell came from your own mouth.  Kind of like the following:
Always nice to claim to know about illegal activities and then use this as an excuse:
So... why are you "grassing" now?  You *now* claim *I* am one of these people who blackmailed BFL, yet you're earlier comment says you *don't* grass.  Since you are lying about my involvement in this, as I didn't know about it until you brought it up before, you're just as likely lying about the fact that it happened.  Since you have to hide behind the fact that you *cannot* provide proof in order to protect the guilty, I'd say that means you have no proof to bring.

I was part of a blackmail? Cool, where's my cut?

You seem to be the one who's hung up on male genitalia with as much as you spout it... are you a closet homo?.  Your inference that I am Josh has been tossed out there and disproved already, I am not Josh, but telling you means nothing as you are too full of yourself to believe the truth.

You must really not read much of what I have written, or you'd not be spouting lies about my trying to help people on here.  As I have said before, I have never told anyone to buy from BFL, have never recommended them to anyone, have even gone so far as to tell people that the purchase they were considering from BFL wasn't worth it in cost vs return.  If that is being a shill, then 90% of the people on this subforum are also BFL shills, including k9, Xian, you, PL, Bickerooski... the list goes on and on.

@k9, as with PG, there were NO conditions placed on the miner I was given during the tour he and I did of their facilities.  It was a gesture of goodwill, similar to the spoondoilies rig that was sent to dogie and all the other free miners given to Sr members of this forum, however, unlike the people on here who receive a free unit, I was not asked to post anything about it.  I've been running that 24gh miner for 6 months now on the 'dangerous' power supply that came with it and it's still chugging along.  My Jalapeno has been runing for almost 4 months now, again on a 'dangerous' power supply that came with it.  I must have someone up there looking out for me considering how much Bickski claims they are death traps waiting to explode.

Oh, also, I only threw out the troll bit cause you were so quick to throw out the shill bit...  Basically that was troll-bait and you ate it up, hook, line and sinker.  Thanks for Playing!!!

Typical troll, calling anyone with intelligence who makes a mistake a shill .  Straight out of the troll handbook.

Congrats, you did pick up on what I missed.  Unlike the trolls on here, I am man enough to admit when I made a mistake.

How am I complicit in fraud?  Can you point to a single instance where I advised people to buy from them?  I can point to several where I told people NOT to buy due to the money spent never making a positive ROI.  You and the other fail-trolls fail at understanding just exactly WHAT it is I am saying (Bickski, this means you above all others).

You guys basically spend your time and energy going after "Number one on the ten most hated list" while ignoring numbers 2-10.  Every ASIC manufacturer has presented themselves in the best possible light, yet they aren't No. 1, so it's ok for them to get away with it.

Maybe you are the one who needs to play golf, actually, on second thought don't... you sure get bent over minor stuff on these forums, I hate to see you get bent over hitting a golf ball into the woods, you'd paint the whole community in a bad light.

How sad, you still don't understand how it works, it's WATTS * TIME = JOULES.  Joules as a reference in itself is meaningless without the time factor.

50 watts for .25 seconds = 12.5 joules

50 watts for 2 seconds = 100 joules

In addition, if you want to be technical (and I know you guys love being technical), Bitmain initially promised 0.68 J/GH on chip, which is meaningless.  Joules is an energy measurement and is usually referenced over time, and there's no time measuement included.  ANY manufacturer out there could make the same claim and it would not be a lie.  While it might take 1 manufacturer .5 sec to reach .68J/GH, it might take another manufacturer 3 seconds.  But that's only misleading, so you'd probably discount it being an untruth.

So, you're saying KnC shipped in mid-August?  Damn, I must have missed that in all the Avalon whining in the KnC thread.

Deceit is intentional, meaning it was originally posted with the intent to deceive.  Procrastination/laziness is a more accurate description and is hardly deceit.  It is a bad business model, but you and so many others seem to think everything needs to be perfect.

Yes, I can see it's 'purpose' is to focus on BFL, couldn't use one of the 50+ threads already out there, had to create another to add to the mess.

As to the trolling part, #1 This one is a tough call, as your examples didn't have existing product (except for Avalon) when it was made, but the problem comes about with companies underpowering chips to reach those power specs.  Until there is a fully working Monarch in hand running at the stated 600GH to see actualy power specs, you technically cannot claim this a lie.  They were shooting for .7W/GH at the time of conception and now it looks like they will beat that, but you nitpick other statements to call it a lie.

#2, I can technically give this to you as ASICMiner had thousands of those little USB stick toys they sold.  Considering they were pfft for hashing power and vastly overpriced (2BTC back in May and would have earned less than .7BTC as of today.)  Discounting AM though, the statement was true when made.

#3, On one of my visits to KC, I noticed their board noting a record 1 day shipping of over 1000 units and the weekly record was over 4000.  At that point in time, there was NO other ASIC manufacturer that had that much production capability, and unless you again count the little USB sticks, which wouldn't be put together in a workplace like BFL has but in a much bigger/vastly automated place, it's doubtful any of the current companies could match this output.

#4.  Your failing to account for time means that you think this is still accurate to this day, but Bitmain was not around posting about a $3/GH claim back in August.  What was true in August is no longer true today, if the statement had read: "The Competition at least $ 17.50 /GH, AND WILL NEVER GET LOWER", then you could indeed say it was a lie.

#5, back in August, 65nm technology WAS powering the majority of the bitcoin network.

#6, So, back in August KnC had a working 1st gen ASIC was was developing a 2nd Gen?

#7, AM, really?!?  Wow.  You love to throw Bitmain out there, but you can only point to Nov when they started posting on the forums.  Considering they were 'founded in 1Q 2013' and nothing was heard until November, you cannot in truth say they had no delay, you can only state that they worked out their delays BEFORE announcing anything.

#8, Technically a lie because they were overly optimistic about their foundry/testing timeline.

#9, You missed the word plan.  True, they suck at timelines, but that isn't lying.

#10, Until you have a fully working 600GH monarch in hand, you cannot call this a lie.  While you pulled the .6 number from their product page, their forum posting says:
.45 at chip level = 270 watts which leaves 80 watts available to reach their 350W listing on the product page.  So much for your 'chips alone are .6w' statement.

I think Avalon wins as worst myself, but that's a judgement call due to the 800k chip fiasco.  

 
Challenge accepted and completed.

There's one major thing missing from this list... a timeline as to when each comment was written.  The OP seriously seems to think that these are current claims, when several of them were made months ago.  Call it was it really is, a lack of updating the website with current information.

I challenge the OP with this:  Show me an ASIC company that has not told ANY lies.  Let's not focus on one, let's put them all on the table.  Otherwise, this is simply another hate thread intended to incite riot because the OP is just another troll.

Delays
Excuses
Abuse
Losses

This isn't really an overclocking thread, the OP started adding chips to his Jalapeno to increase speed.  The Single is already at the maximum number of chips, so there is no way to increase from that.

The light in the back is not supposed to blink, so I woudl say yes, it sounds like a power supply problem.

Unfortunately, it sounds like an RMA issue.  The fans coming on for a sec and the green light on the PSU indicate it's not the PSU.  If you had a short, the light on the PSU would go out, this is a new one but no fans would mean problem even if you got it running as it would overheat.

My unit has IOR mosfets on it instead of the 010NE2LI ones, unfortunately I am out of town for the weekend, so cannot get you the info on them at the moment.

Actually, you started the attacks and lies Bickski, so you are complaining about reaping what you've sown.  So sad you forget these little details, but then again, you have to or you'd probably be kept up at night by your conscience.  Oh, yeah, forget you don't have one....

Unless you can find one for like $100 or less, I'd have to say you should look at something else.

AS I said, you already knew the answer even though you state it wrong.  It was NOT a fully functioning miner as it was hashing over 20% below the current models being shipped, it was not able to be sold so it was given as a gift with no strings attached.  Bruno was also given a free unit, which he decided to sell, does that mean he was paid off as well, since the trolls on here have insinuated as much several times now.  What I find interesting is that I have never advocated buying ANY miner from ANY company, yet I am 'whiteknighting' for BFL simply because  made it known I purchased from them and disagree with the haters who think they'd have gotten rich.  You and others lied to me repeatedly, telling me my money was gone that BFL was taking it and running and that I'd never see my miner, yet I have my Jalapeno sitting right here hashing away just like the 40,000 other units BFL shipped that you said would never happen.  The trolls say I've lied, which is another lie on their part.

You people are sad and you harp on the same things until the dead horse you're beating gets crushed into powder and you continue beating the ground.  Anyone who doesn't toe the Anti-BFL line is either a shill, a sock-puppet or as *U* puts it has Josh's hand up their rears.  I'm just wonder whose hand is up your rear paying you to make all these posts?  Bickski seems to be a likely source, maybe you are just his sock-puppet/shill and are being offered a free developer board for your hatred.

Unlike the rest of you, *I* have a fair bit of intelligence and I apply it to understand truths that others gloss over, such as the farcical claims about making 5000-7000BTC from a pair of mini-rigs or making 100BTC with a little single.  The math is simple and the data is out there, yet people are blinded, like Mr Meissner, that THEY would be the ONLY one to get a unit running and they'd be fat, dumb and happy with Millions of dollars.  I guess 2 out of 3 ain't bad;)

In addition, using your logic, there are numerous people on this board who have been 'paid off' by being given a unit they did not pay for.  I personally think you are bitter that you weren't one of the lucky ones.  Jealousy is such a terrible thing to hold onto, maybe you should see a councilor.

Hmm, let's look at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=48863.msg588169#msg588169

Direct quote: PS.  In the meantime, I would suggest all of you who don't have a pre-existing relationship with the company refrain from making any pre-orders.  We appreciate the interest in our product, but the hostility isn't worth it. Please just wait for off the shelf units to be available.  Thx.

Why ask questions you already know the answer to?

I've already been down this road and none of you like the answers I give you.  There was a chance at getting a refund back in May 2013, at that point they had initial chips in hand, were re-working the board design to accomodate the increased power and heat issues and were committing to the acquisition of the main component of these devices, the ASICs as well as commissioning the other items needed to produce thee units.  Personally, I think they should have just attached chips to boards like so many other 'companies' and let you all figure out how to power and cool them and be done with it.

Maybe they took the wrong route, maybe they should have offerred a refund like so many store do with a restocking fee for the items refunded.  They had already comitted funds to purchase items based on orders, basically just like if you goto a parts store and order a specialty item and then decide you don't want it, they charge you the restocking fee in order to offset the costs you just caused them to incur by purchasing and shipping this item in. 

When they offeres the chips for sale they did this... 50% non-refundable up front, 50% paid to receive shipment once the chips were in hand.

The problem to me is that you are referring to 'normal' companies and this is a niche market.  A lot of time and effort went into the creation of these devices targetted at a small fraction of the population and that means the normal rules do not always work well.  I had a custom 3" exhaust built for my Z28 after I had modified the motor to pull 400+HP and I paid a premium for it as it was a 'niche' market.  I had to pay up front and if I didn't like his design I couldn't exactly demand my money back in full as he had already committed a good portion of that to materials and in his effort.  It's not like he could say "no big deal, I'll just sell it sooner or later' when it might be a year or more before someone wanted a similar setup.

Like it or not, Mr Meissner is the woman who sued McDonalds because the coffee was hot and is probably not telling the whole story.  Personally I would have asked the woman 2 questions: Was this your first cup of coffee ever? and if no, "Do you make a habit of buying cold coffee?"

The problem here is that there are a lot of complexities and variables in the mix.  1) Can Mr Meissner show he has had a 100% up time with current equipment during the time he is claiming he lost money?  2) Can Mr Meissner show he has never spent a single BTC in that time frame as well, as he is asking for damages based on current prices and the total amount he 'could' have mined.  3) Can Mr Meissner prove he would have made the income he claims (ie did he ACTUALLY have that much online at that time, as anything else is speculation)?

I'd be willing to bet there is a lot to this that is not being told.  Let's take a look at his complaint:


From this it is obvious that he sent the money, but without any identifying information.  BFL was receiving hundreds if not thousands of orders in Mar/Apr due to the spike in the price of BTC.  Personally, if I sent that much money via a bank wire, I'd immediately follow it up with an email stating "I sent this from here" and provide whatever tracking information to speed up the process, not wait a week or more later and then ask why it hadn't shown up.

In addition, by his own statements, he placed his order on Mar 25th, but did not pay for his order for a few weeks.  So he 'ordered', the price went up and then he 'paid' at the old price after debating for "a few weeks" on the merits of his purchase?

Personally I find these statements to be lawerish double-speak:

Wow... 'Unilaterally decided' to substitute... rofl... Gee, doesn't EVERYONE have access to a 90 amp circuit in their house to power a single 1500GH unit?  Why refer to a 6-month plus delay then change to 8 months from order and 7 months from payment?  Also, why state the change to 6 500's and then revert to 2 1500's?  All through this document the lawyer switches from exact dates to statements that leave you hanging.  "A few weeks later"  "6 months plus"  "mined approximately 5,000 to 7,500 Bitcoins"

Then there's the Catch-22... since Inaba frequents these forums, everything I postulate becomes fodder for use by BFL all thanks to you questioning me.  How does it feel to be directly helping BFL?

This business model pretty much came out BECAUSE of the miners.  In reading through the old threads, it fairly obvious that BFL was trying to create something with the FGPA and then sell it, but someone found their test page and started screaming scam which kinda forced them to come on here and defend themselves while they were still in development.  They originally did not want to have pre-orders, heck, they didn't even set out to make BTC miners, they were looking at another application of the FPGAs and were approached by miners who started the whole idea rolling.  Once word leaked, so many people on here basically begged for them to take pre-orders, that they relented and offered people the chance to order something that did not yet exist.  Once the door was opened, others came along and did the same thing, so it was basically a vicious cycle, take pre-orders and hope everything goes well or wait and watch as others take those pre-orders.

I personally knew about the BitSafe they talked about at CES back in Sept when Bruno and I visited the BFL facility.  That was something they were able to work on without the pressure of pre-orders cause it wasn't public knowledge and no one was hounding them for it.  So many people on here use the phrase "shut up and take my money" as sarcasm, but in reality, that's what happened as people were more interested in getting THEIR place in line than learning IF or WHEN it would come into existance.

The sad truth in all of this is that the miners brought this about and then turned around and damned them for doing it.

It's kinda lilke the people who think I am being paid to post on here.  I can honestly say that I enjoy a good income and I'd be willing to bet that BFL would not be willing to offer me a job where I am making more than I am now.