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Didn't people agree to this in the T&C's when they agreed to be investomers (i.e checked out)?
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no pic...
someone repost?
Cheers,
QG
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Today I was going to buy 2 miners from your company, and discovered that you no longer accepts Credit Card or Paypal!! Dragonkid, Due to circumstances outside of our control, we have been forced to suspend accepting payments through PayPal. I apologize for any inconvenience this is causing you, but we are working on getting an alternate credit card processor as soon as possible. We are still accepting BitCoin and wire transfer, and since the availability is limited, we encourage our customers to secure payment through one of these methods to ensure your place in queue. Regards, CoinTerra Support In the interest of fairness and accuracy you should change the title of the thread and edit the OP to reflect the fact you are currently not able to accept those payment methods. |
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any idea if I can force BFL into refunding my Bitcoin purchased orders? Bitcoin is money, and they should also be refunding the Bitcoin amount in my opinion. Anyone got any good advice on how to proceed? I want this company out of my life. If I have to I'll sue them, but any other tips would be appreciated.
No way Jose, If you buy stuff priced in EU on Amazon EU, you can pay USD equivalent after exchanged but you will never have a refund of the same USD amount. Your refund will be USD equivalent of the exact EU price after the current exchange rate. Got that? It appears as though PayPal has a different policy and that they use conversion rate at time of purchase, so there is precedent for this type of refund. Paypal currency conversion policy: https://www.paypal.com/helpcenter/main.jsp;jsessionid=rV0JKsnTq3Z197277Pg2sQ4mJ1HJWQ5xpxnJnzGxvW9J1FhW03yL!-1588418?t=solutionTab&ft=homeTab&ps&solutionId=163394&locale=en_GB&_dyncharset=UTF-8&countrycode=GB&cmd=_help&serverInstance=9012 Refunds are performed using the exchange rate which was current at the time of the original payment. Got that? |
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just to clarify: Is Inaba (the Dance Monkey Guy) really someone from BFL? Or just some Troll?
Please be someone from BFL...* hope* ^^
Inaba is BFL_Josh and he is the COO of BF Labs. |
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The GPU miner market has been doing just fine with only ATI/AMD supplying the lions share of the hardware. Yet in the ASIC hardware market we have how many players? Lots! It's high risk unsustainable, just a price war fueled by pre-order money.
Good point, but the GPU market pre-existed for gaming, so it's not an apples to apples situation. All the ASIC players are startups, or rather the ASIC line of business is a startup venture that presumably needs seed money even for an established company. The issue becomes whether the seed money should come from banks or from "us". A third possibility would be for some deep-pocketed existing company, say ATI/AMD to fund ASIC development internally, but the deep-pocketed companies probably find the risk level unappealing. I don't like pre-order uncertainty any more than anyone else (442 days and counting for my BFL order, I think), but I also don't like the idea of my ASIC supplier being under the thumb of banking interests. Interesting dilemma. Banks and pre-orders are not the only viable ways to fund a start up. They could raise capital other ways, like selling equity to investors (either a few large investors or many smaller investors). What we have currently is very skewed risk to reward ratio in a bad way for the consumer and an extremely good way for the start up. Miners are being treated as investomers, all the risk of an investor and all the reward of a customer. Oddly enough the real business world would rarely if ever fund a start up with customer money, as this is a pretty good way to invite possible unwanted personal liability (even with an Llc) by under capitalizing a business (something a lot of people could find out if they are not very lucky). |
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We all should really stop with this preorder shit. Its nothing else then free loan to the company. If company has a solid plan worth risking, then go to the bank and ask for loan.
In earlier blackarrow explanation I have noticed that he speaks of btc price implying it will rose among the difficulty. That was adsressed milion of times; then we are better of just buying and holding bitcoins at today market price.
Exactly, Bitcoin mining is the only industry I can think of where one pre-order company pops up almost every week with their hat out. They are almost as common at new alt-coins. In every other industry people make their products first, then release them to the market. Ain't Deadwood swell!!!  |
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No Canadian reseller eh? Was thinking about picking one up for shits and giggles but would prefer to support local reseller and have domestic shipping.
Anyway no biggie good luck to BPMC with this and future projects!
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3) If you paid with wire it will be a relatively simple process by bringing the proof of the transfer but if you paid with btc, you need the transfer log of the btc amount that matches the TH order, as well as the btc/usd exchange rate screen print from mtgox (since the price went up it will only help you) - to explain and show it to the judge clearly btc is real money, because he/she wont have a clue what you are talking about in regards to bitcoin. So you have to give a quick lesson first then prove you gave the btc to the defendant. And also give a clear amount in USD you are seeking in return
Just as a point of interest with regards to informing a judge that BTC is real money. I recall seeing some information that recently a US federal judge made a ruling in a case that BTC was legal tender or a currency I don't remember which at this point. I am not going to look for it but if you need the info it is in these forums somewhere. I know not all courts are required to recognize each other but it could help the judge to understand BTC by showing some legal precedence. |
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Well it's your lucky day! I have just opened up full payment pre-orders (sorry no refunds EVER) for exactly such a product  , delivery will be two months OR more. I can do a little better than .25 they start at .20 (MoQ 10 units). Please send non refundable BTC payment only to the address in my signature  Do you accept ChinaCoin or FeatherCoin as payment? our legal dept has advised me we can accept any alt coin payment. Please select the appropriate address from my signature and send immediately please. Also I apologize but there will be a small (large) admin fee to process orders, please add an additional 100 BTC (or converted alt coin of preference) to your payment! Ok sounds good. But first let me check and see if any new alt coins were released today. Should be a few. If so, I'll mine those for awhile first and then send you whatever coin it is as a form of "payment". Hmm, or I could just invent a new alt coin, premine it and then send that to you. That sounds easier.  Outstanding! I look forward to receiving your payment and future possible business transactions. |
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Well it's your lucky day! I have just opened up full payment pre-orders (sorry no refunds EVER) for exactly such a product , delivery will be two months OR more. I can do a little better than .25 they start at .20 (MoQ 10 units). Please send non refundable BTC payment only to the address in my signature Do you accept ChinaCoin or FeatherCoin as payment? our legal dept has advised me we can accept any alt coin payment. Please select the appropriate address from my signature and send immediately please. Also I apologize but there will be a small (large) admin fee to process orders, please add an additional 100 BTC (or converted alt coin of preference) to your payment! |
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Well it's your lucky day! I have just opened up full payment pre-orders (sorry no refunds EVER) for exactly such a product , delivery will be two months OR more. I can do a little better than .25 they start at .20 (MoQ 10 units). Please send non refundable BTC payment only to the address in my signature |
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On my paypal order, the paypal account is listed as: amir@terrahash.com. this would imply that the funds went to Amir's paypal account rather than a corporate account. This would be comingling corporate funds with private funds. I believe that the corporate veil can be pierced if there is comingling of funds in this manner. The company was quite likely under capitalized which will probably make piercing the corporate veil significantly easier. I believe he has unknowingly (or perhaps with full knowledge) opened up personal liability by under capitalizing the Llc. I have said this many times, using customer pre-order money to fund a start up is EXTREMELY risky and if the shit hits the fan, some of these folks are going to be in a bad spot. |
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If your going to give them anymore ideas can you perhaps suggest refunding peoples money... Damn you Pt0x cloudf#cking, really what next. Maybe he should suggest an offshore BTC lottery scam site as BFL's next offering. |
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On August 19th when they introduced the Monarch and put the 'majority of the network' statement out there is was true. I'm the kind of guy that likes factual evidence, could you point out to me where BFL proved with mathematics and not word games that this statement was true when released please? You see when I see Josh saying things like (and I am paraphrasing here) well no one else is shipping so obviously we account for the majority of current hash rate I don't see proof. What I see is someone who is taking credit for all that hash rate yet provided specious reasoning as proof. Now if BFL had come out and said we have shipped x jally, x LS's, x singles and x mini rigs then we could have undeniable proof that they provided at the time the majority of network hash rate. It is certainly possible the statement was in fact correct but by not providing proof and by making specious assumptions I feel it's not fair to make a blanket statement like that. Even if it was worded as an estimation (which it wasn't it was stated as a fact) I still wouldn't believe it, BFL has failed at essentially every public estimate they have made. It is crystal clear in my mind no one a that company has any estimating or forecasting skills at all. |
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Yeah, they are probably got the chips and are in the process of crossing the Mexico border, with chips and our $. Their last log in was on 14th...  Going to see a new website called: Terrahash/Mexico.com lol They dont even have to cross boarder. They could be changing everything to Super Hash start a new LLC sell all assets to it, and say go ahead sue TH all you want. Or maybe Amir got a real job. Honestly you cant tell me they have worked 8-5 Monday through Friday since before pre-orders. I think you will actually find that piercing the corporate veil is very possible, not common but certainly possible. Registering a business as an Llc does not magically erect an "I win" legal shield for the owners, there are a number of reasons why the courts can decide pierce the corporate veil. It is also easier to pierce the corporate veil of small non-publicly traded Llc's. A common reason for piercing the veil is "under capitalization". If the owners of the Llc did not properly fund the business courts may decide that the business never was a separate legal entity because it never really had a chance. I guess the common response in this forum will be, but these pre-order companies had lots of funding to start up that's why they took full payment pre-orders. It's important here to look at what the ramifications of taking pre-order money is from an accounting perspective. Receiving money for goods not shipped ie pre-order payment sits as a liability (it is debt) on the ledgers, not an asset, not capital and not revenue until the sale/transaction is complete. At the point of completion it is then transferred to revenue and can continue on with the accounting process from there. If the owners have failed to inject enough capital to cover incurred debt at start up you might be able to argue under capitalizing the company. As a side most companies in the real world don't do long pre-orders because they are a debt on the books until the sale is complete and most business' want as little debt on the books as possible (makes balance sheet docs more attractive!). Basically what I'm saying is that, knowingly or not the owners of some of the present pre-order vendors may have opened complicated legal issues that may put their personal assets at risk, the lawyers will salivate over this if it ever unfortunately gets this far. I am actually glad that for the most part the community has been "understanding". If the lawyers ever to get involved in a major way EVERYONE (except the lawyers) will lose unfortunately). I honestly hope it never comes to this for the community and the companies but ignoring all legal angles isn't smart. None of this is legal advice or gospel truth, all my opinion as there are always two sides I'm sure a lawyer could be paid to argue the opposite but my personal opinion is that IF tested in a court of law the above is the side I would think wins. |
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my apologies!  No need for an apology man! bASIC was a company, I'll leave it at that. |
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eASIC comes a little bit after bASIC
yet eASIC is far from being basic, check it out: eASIC Raises $23.5M of Growth Capital
Financing to fund global expansion and fulfill fast-growing product demand
Santa Clara, CA – September 9, 2013 – eASIC® Corporation, a leading provider of Single Mask Adaptable ASIC™ devices today announced that it has closed a $23.5M growth capital financing. The funding includes investment from Khosla Ventures, Kleiner Perkins Caufield and Byers, Crescendo Ventures, Seagate Technology and Evergreen Partners. eASIC® will use the capital to fund expansion of its US and European development organizations and to provide working capital associated with the fast-growing demand for its Single Mask Adaptable ASIC devices.
"eASIC has become the go-to provider for cost effective, mass customization devices", said Ronnie Vasishta, President and CEO of eASIC. "Our success in wireless infrastructure and the storage market, coupled with several new key design wins in the high-volume automotive market drove the targeted $20M round to be oversubscribed to $23.5M. This significant funding by leading venture firms and a strategic partner positions us well to expand our development and customer organizations as we execute on our recent wins and broad customer pipeline."
"The convergence of eASIC’s unique technology, the demand for mass customization combined with the need for low-cost and fast time to market solutions is creating an unprecedented opportunity for eASIC to emerge as the de facto solution for custom silicon platforms", said Mike Kourey, a Partner at Khosla Ventures. "With this growth capital financing, eASIC and its strong leadership team is in a position to fully execute on its strategy and fulfill the demand of its broadening base of customers and platforms."
Doesn't sound basic to me! Just basically awesome. I don't think you caught the joke. |
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TBH, I'm rather annoyed at the idea of bringing another 2PH online so quickly. Only customer orders should come online. Not 2PH no matter what. It is kind of rude to the community.
Tired of having money tied up in pre-orders.
The sad thing is that the January 2TH unit will never *really* ROI based on the hashing power CoinTerra says they will put on the network. Yet people should feel comfy because they can find other methods to throw money into this pit. Cheers! "Never"? Why do you say never? Doesn't that calculation rely heavily on the bitcoin exchange rate at that time and the $/kwhr you pay? Exchange rate is irrelevant, if you need an exchange rate increase to make a profit you would have been better off buying and holding coins. |
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Thats not proof bcp the moron that he is will claim they are just box's I'll go out on a limb and say you didn't see all 8 pictures in the album. |
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