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19261  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin is not really open source. Why not? on: December 06, 2016, 04:21:11 PM


I agree that with proper documentation things are much easier to understand. But the argument OP is making is not about documentation.

Also about sloppy coding, if you see this and know a much better way and also capable of coding, I am curious to know if you have ever done anything about it like opening an issue on GitHub or changing the code to that better way and submitting it through pull request?

the boysclub usually ask you to discuss it with devs in IRC first. then join the mailing list. discuss it further and explain it in more detail and use the github only for final code.

unless its a spelling mistake you are usually met with many barriers and slaps to your face if you even hint there is an issue or a better way.

most objections to issues get shut down due to boysclub protection and rants about they know how things should be done while chest thumping they know better and to quietly tell outsiders to shut up go away and if you dont like it, fork off and play with an altcoin with their preferred code.

so although the code is open. to view. what is viewable it not always clear. and if you do translate it and see an issue. then trying to sort it or overcome their boysclub is met with what can only be described as the opposite to an open community
19262  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin is not really open source. Why not? on: December 06, 2016, 03:53:21 PM
What end users can do is either learn a programming language and read the code themselves or trust hundreds of others who are doing it.

many do know programming languages. but if the code uses undescribed variables or just randomly selected characters as variables, where no comments describe what the function does.. it is a headache

there is a major difference between quickly reading code to see if it has any "kill commands" and reading it line by line to see what the code does.
it took many people alot of time to read line for line and translate it in their head into 'pseudocode' and then work out what a function does by simulating it. which all can be solved by some basic etiquette. most of the people that actually bother reading it line by line and do simulations are those that then make their own implementations that run better. due to the boysclub of core being close minded to outside criticism.

the issues arise when one coder does stuff that 'works' but does so in a fancy way which could have been done in other ways. though passing a review test, the peers are not simulating it to think of other ways it can be written. they just put their thumbs up and move on. 'trusting' the dev that wrote it.

there have been many times we have seen bitcoin toyed around with later purely because one function passed a review, but later finding out if a function was wrote differently it would work better.

just because 90 spell checkers put their thumbs up, doesnt mean the code is perfect. doesnt mean all 90 spell checkers have run simulations or thought of different strategies. most of they time they quickly browse the code doesnt have 'kill commands' and then "TRUST!!!!" the dev that wrote it knows what he is doing, thus resulting in a fake positive peer review

its why there are all the core fanboys throwing out doomsdays. they dont run real simlations or actually read code, they just read summaries and other peoples opinions and trust.. trust of one person who trusts another who trusts another even when all 3 have not read a line of code. makes things go wrong.

take a notable name in the forum.. Lauda.. he doesnt know C++ yet has been very vocal of his trust of core code and core devs. and people then trust him. all because the code is not laid out.

take the way devs implemented the tx fee.. not only subverting coded methods of 'priority' which would have alleviated the war, but also using 'averages' which dont make the fee's drop reactively when demand is low. but actually keeps fee's up. even when one block is low demand.
EG take a 25 block average.. imagine first 24 are 0.0001 and the 25th is 0.0025 then look at the 'average' after that.. even if demand was near 0 and no one was pushing the fee up.... the "average" itself pushes up


so although the tx fee passes 'peer review' its sloppily coded in a way that is not reactive to low demand. or cares about using code logic to show real priority. all its doing is pushing/maintaining a high price even when demand is low.

it requires pools to avoid using the 'average' and to accept cheap tx's just to break the cycle that the 'average' fee war game is playing.
19263  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin is not really open source. Why not? on: December 06, 2016, 02:38:11 PM
Open source means that anybody can access the whole source code. And this IS possible.
Documentation would be nice, documented lines would be great, a good programming style (including well chosen variable and function names) would be super, but you cannot really ask for this; quite a lot of production code lacks one or more of these points, quite a lot of open source projects lack one or more of these points.

Imho OP has a confusion on this matter. Open source doesn't mean teaching/learning code.

Yes, it would be nice to have that, but I don't think that it's Bitcoin Dev team's "job" to do that. It could be an idea for a side project/website though...

the dictionary definition of open source is that the code is not locked away in some vault that only available to authorised people.
BUT
the concept and context of bitcoins openness is that anyone should be able to get involved. which can actually be hindered by the ettiquete some devs have. especially if its required that their code should be peer reviewed.

this is how bugs happen. by not clearly laying out the code. people gloss over the code and just think. 'this guy looks like he knows what he is doing lets just let the code fly' and not actually reading line by line and running scenarios.

its already happened a couple times even after being so called 'peer reviewed'
19264  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin is not really open source. Why not? on: December 06, 2016, 02:11:15 PM
OP is having issues with:
updated documentation that actually explain it properly
code lacking comments.
signposting to the best source of code, comments, documentation.

though it is open source, the organisation of HOW its open is missing.
back in my day nearly every line of code had comments to explain what it does.
back in my day nearly every line of code had namespaces/variables with WORDS that explained what it does not just characters

there are many modules that do have comments and variables with understandable names. but there are some without.

EG https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/secp256k1/src/ecdsa_impl.h (grabbed randomly)
if you see a module assign variables 'b1' 'rs' 'rr' 's1' 'u1' 'u2' 'sn' 'pr' without commenting what they do. it helps no one.

yes with a couple re reads and running it through your mind in what used to be called 'pseudocode' you get the gist of it eventually. but its still badly organised

the funnier part is that many core devs get very snobby if forum posts are not wrote in 100% white paper approved level of English grammar, even when knowing forums are just for common/social communication where only 10% of the planet deem English to be their first language. but their own code lacks the basic coding etiquette
19265  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I would like to understand something basic about TREZOR on: December 06, 2016, 01:38:29 PM
i agree although trezor is a hardware wallet. to get full functionality you need browser add-ons and connect via their server. (facepalm to obvious trojan/hack weakness via phishing sites and hijacked add-ons) though you can link it to other desktop wallets like multibit, etc. but still..

though trezor and other hardware wallets are one security 'step up' from the standard desktop installed software due to the privkeys/seeds not being stored on the computer the app/add-on is stored. and many steps up from just a webwallet...its still not perfect and still has points of weakness.

the two main desktop wallets that are compatible with trezor and can be deemed trusted are
electrum and multibit

advantages of trezor:
private key/seed held separately from computer. adding the layer of defense

disadvantages:
watch out for any desktop app/browser addin/page telling you there is an error and you need to type in your seed. be cautious to check its a real error and not a phishing attempt

a true hardware wallet should not connect to any middlemen service or require anything installed on a persons pc to function. hopefully future hardware wallets will be true independently and fully run from the USB hardware device, without risk of fake "error, please type in seed" phishing scams via trojans.(no requirement to download/use anything on pc/middleman webservice)
19266  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin can you stand alone? on: December 06, 2016, 01:30:39 AM
Can you stop pricing yourself in fiat?

I would say it is with almost 100% certainty that you cannot.

I'm wondering just how long you will use the fiat banking system as your crutch.


imagine bitcoin priced against not fiat.. but "cost of living index" (yes its a real metric, go research it)
EG
no matter where in the world you are, you can say i want enough bitcoin that values at around 10 loaves of bread.
no need for someone in africa to need to convert m-pesa to a dollar value and then look up the bitcoin price.

they just use the "cost of living index" and automatically know what bitcoin equates to by knowing the average price of bread or other produce in their native country. thus removing the dollar as the metric
19267  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A Quantum Computing-Dominated World is Coming... (truncated) on: December 06, 2016, 12:05:23 AM
QC has limitations.

solving binary logic problems QC doesnt handle well.. expect a 2x 'efficiency' rate
so things like SHA.. dont expect much efficiency of being brute forced by a QC system.

but things like ECDSA that can have deeper efficiency of being brute forced by a QC system.25-256x efficiency.

the thing is though. the cycle rate of a QC CPU compared to a binary based CPU right now has not much difference. so its going to take a while for something desktop PC size to outperform a PC.

QC computers has along time before its truly scaled to compete.


Current estimates say less than 20 years before SHA-256 and ECC are broken.

It means if SHA 2 family will be broken too. Roll Eyes

but ECC is more vulnerable than SHA256.  not the other way round.
but bitcoin can adapt. new keypairs will be introduced using different curves and higher hash security
19268  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A Quantum Computing-Dominated World is Coming... (truncated) on: December 05, 2016, 11:46:19 PM
How difficult would it be to go to biometric security. Isnt that the solution? Me thinks so.

lol biometrics. nope thats not a solution, thats:
worse than a password.
better then a 4 digit pin number/door code

sorry but the entropy of biometrics is weak.
also it starts locking funds to someones identity. forever, you cant just move funds to a different password/privkey
lastly brute forcing the entropy of biometrics is easier than you think. its less entropy than 256bit

put it this way. people are put in prison for matching just 9 points of reference of a fingerprint
19269  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BITCOIN ETF on: December 05, 2016, 11:00:46 PM
Looks like one more Bitcoin transformation into being EXACTLY like wall st.

bitcoin ETF is not bitcoin.
its a small amount of bitcoin held in a trust and then that trust is treated like a company where it sells shares..

thos shares initially will correlate to the bitcoin price but because they are on separate markets the bitcoin price and ETF price will separate.

this is because the ETF funds are locked in to the 'trust' and cannot be arbitraged to affect the real bitcoin price.

at very best if the ETF excels compared to the bitcoin price. the ETF will have spare profits to add more 'baskets' of bitcoins to its ETF and sell shares. the issue is the selling of more shares dilutes the ETF price. due to extra supply. so you wont see the ETF do much to the real bitcoin economy. but the real economy can affect the ETF
19270  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A Quantum Computing-Dominated World is Coming... (truncated) on: December 05, 2016, 09:35:48 PM
QC has limitations.

solving binary logic problems QC doesnt handle well.. expect a 2x 'efficiency' rate
so things like SHA.. dont expect much efficiency of being brute forced by a QC system.

but things like ECDSA that can have deeper efficiency of being brute forced by a QC system.25-256x efficiency.

the thing is though. the cycle rate of a QC CPU compared to a binary based CPU right now has not much difference. so its going to take a while for something desktop PC size to outperform a PC.

QC computers has along time before its truly scaled to compete.
19271  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Can operating a Bitcoin node make you a target? on: December 05, 2016, 08:25:45 PM
what if the end user and source user have the same owner, that is using another of is pc in a different location or many pc in different part of the world to keep his activity secret? i would you know where he is really located?

if you are a agency looking at the end IP.. trying to find the source is hard..
but if you are the ISP knowing every move every source user is doing. it gets easy.

why do you think the "snoopers charter" exists. that governments are requesting ISP's to keep logs of all users AT SOURCE.

we are not talking about trying to locate millions of users using a certain port. we are talking about UK ISP's ability to notice just 230 nodes using a certain port and sending certain size packets of data via them ports. we are talking about US ISP's ability to notice just 1500 nodes using a certain port and sending certain size packets of data via them ports.
you would be surprised how easy that is to do.

many people thing "the whole internet needs to crash to stop bitcoin". or its impossible due to proxies can change in a second.

but if 5000 nodes are physically disconnected from the internet. you will notice it. and the billions of other people who dont know what bitcoin is wont be interupted.
19272  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [Discussion] Blocks signalling SegWit Support on: December 05, 2016, 12:59:25 PM
lukes new 2mb segwit (2mb base 4mb weight)
is getting to be a better proposal. though it is still kicking the can down the road.

it needs to be DYNAMIC
so that we are not reliant on devs to supply capacity scaling at their discretion, with community at their knees begging. but instead when the network independently chooses for it to happen without dev's 'control'

19273  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Is BitWalking a Bitcoin Rip-Off? on: December 05, 2016, 02:44:33 AM
most "new" concepts are playing the hype of other tech to inflate their own value purely for some VC funding.

i bet it cost about $1,000 to code and release the app but the creator by adding that its aimed at the fitness crowd and the 'blockchain' crowd automatically wanted it valued at $X million
19274  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Can operating a Bitcoin node make you a target? on: December 05, 2016, 02:04:14 AM
yes

lets imagine using bitcoin was made illegal, its not. so this is just hypothetical to appease Sir Alpha's thoughts


alot of people think "use proxies". but that only protects the end user from knowing the source user..
ISP's will still know because they are packet sniffing the source user not the destination

a government could via united nations/interpol set up a sudden international tactical strike

this can be done by
https://bitnodes.21.co/
getting all the IP's and finding out which ISP that ip belongs to.
EG in the UK its under 230..in the U.S its under 1500 [nodes]

so imagine tomorrow under 230 homes out of 20 million [UK]households have their internet disconnected
at the same time
in america under 1500 homes out of 100mill [US]households have their internet disconnected
and so on
even things like proxies are useless because the landline has been literally cut off for upto 6000 locations
think its impossible? its not. ISP's have millions of customers and regularly turn the internet off on 10's of thousands of users every week due to breach of contract/non payment of bill.

they would also take bitnodes and other DNS seeding locations offline to further cause drama of new node locations not being able to link up, though smart people will just join an IRC channel and request a list of working ip addresses to manually add node connections [once they sort out their land line disconnection barrier]

as for the network
what would happen is that the countries with no "partnerships" to whatever agency is organising this tactical strike will continue on. and people who are affected would need to either move house or go to court to get their internet ban lifted or change ISP which can take upto 10 days in some cases.

again it wont require an all out "ban the internet" of 1.5billion people. but instead disconnecting the land lines of under 6000 people to cause alot of drama and issues.

the solution is to get more diverse. instead of bitcoin nodes running in just 91 countries it needs to be running in all 200 countries. and also needs to be running via satalite and other non landline/ISP reliant methods
19275  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Core is working on a 2mb hardfork proposal, testing is in progress! Amazing news on: December 05, 2016, 01:25:26 AM
Good to seem them trying to accommodate the larger crowd.

[...]

It's not at all clear, which is the larger crowd. The whole blocksize drama was initiated by an army of sockpuppets and shills of Hearn and Ver.

As far as I understood this could be a compromise with some of the Chinese mining pools, who demanded bigger blocks to make more profit. Hopefully I'm wrong and this rumor does not materialize. I'm not happy with a blocksize increase this early. It's premature, because SegWit has just been released for voting and fees are still too low to root out transaction spam. SegWit effectively doubles the amount of storage space, so there is no urgency to increase the blocksize.

A healthy fee market and network decentralization are far more important than capacity alone.

ya.ya.yo!

you do know hearn is part of the blockstream army.. it was subdefuge.. blockstream and hearn are both in the bankers pockets.

as for ver.. sorry but 70-75% of hashrate has not said yes to segwit.. ver only accounts for 9% not 70%..
seems your the one trying to twist things. please atleast be honest. if you cant be honest atleast show stats.. dont just creatively speculate to twist things. segwit is at 25% not 91%.. so its not just ver saying no to segwit.

research harder, your rhetoric sounds like an echo of other peoples spoonfed propaganda. rather than independent insight/understanding

lastly even the segwit fanboys ALSO want more blocksize too, they just argue more about WHO will do it and less about HOW. its not a left or right debate. it should be a middleground where everyone gets what they want.
19276  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Bitcoin information on: December 05, 2016, 01:06:42 AM
@batang bitcoin

im looking to invest around 10000 have u got any idea what profit can be and r they easy to fit and connect and start work for me that i havent got a lot of knowlegde on this field?

so thats about 6x 13t/hash asics
or 13btc held(buying bitcoin not asics)

going the mining route
first, learn about difficulty adjustments
http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin.png
the average difficulty change is over 6.5% rise every fortnight.. meaning expect over 6.5% drop of income a fortnight.
also hashrate rises in that time(real time competitor) so expect slightly higher losses due to competition..

anyway lets use a mining calculator to just get the income for 2weeks.. (estimate)
remember the calculators dont do the difficulty depreciation. they just (dumbly) multiply a daily income by 28 for a month or 365 for a year.
never ever expect to get that though as the difficulty adjustments need to be factored in, which as i say the calculators dont do when estimating long term.

so based on 6 asics..
fortnight01      0.95754508<- this grabbed via mining calculators
fortnight02      0.89051692<- this and subsequent depreciate every fortnight by 7%
fortnight03      0.82818074
fortnight04      0.77020809
fortnight05      0.71629352
fortnight06      0.66615298
fortnight07      0.61952226
fortnight08      0.57615571
fortnight09      0.53582480
fortnight10      0.49831707
fortnight11      0.46343488
fortnight12      0.43099443
fortnight13      0.40082483
fortnight14      0.37276708
fortnight15      0.34667339
fortnight16      0.32240625
fortnight17      0.29983782
fortnight18      0.27884917
fortnight19      0.25932972
fortnight20      0.24117664
fortnight21      0.22429428
fortnight22      0.20859368
fortnight23      0.19399212
fortnight24      0.18041268
            ~11.28
after a year of mining. expect ~11.28btc based on a realistic 7% difficulty+competitor depreciation amount per fortnight
and those calculations were for ZERO electrical use, Zero extra costs (heating delivery maintenance, downtime)
so
11.3 at best mining for a year compared to about ~13btc if you just bought $10,000 of btc.

yes you can possibly make more in year 2.
fortnight25      0.16778379
..
fortnight48      0.031612425
            ~1.98

meaning for 2 years combined you have maybe ~13.26

but that as i said is best case scenario.. and 2 years of letting the rigs run without accounting for heating, downtime, maintenance
in my view easier to just buy 13btc and hoard for 2 years.
19277  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Dead ass can someone get in a discord/ skype with me and just explain bitcoin on: December 04, 2016, 11:43:07 PM
atleast write a few questions you do have so far, and get some better answers
19278  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Bitcoin information on: December 04, 2016, 10:00:28 PM
can you be more specific like wich type shall i buy and would you help me to start over i mean to connect this thingies,and iv got few places with free energy if anyone is interested in partenrship let me know

unless you are manufacturing the rigs. you wont profit with any good ETA

most people only mine now (if they are not manufacturers) purely on the belief that in a couple of years the fiat value of smaller btc returns will rise to cover fiat expense.

your better off just buying 2BTC($1500) and holding it for 3 years rather then buying a rig (same fiat total now) and hoping to get 1btc in 3 years.

yes you may get 1btc in 3 years and that 1btc maybe worth more than $1500.. thus appearing fiat positive.. but if you just buy 2btc now. you will be even more fiat positive in the future
19279  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [Discussion] Blocks signalling SegWit Support on: December 04, 2016, 08:27:33 PM
I guess my above calculations were wrong after all , for some reasons , It seems like we are stuck at 22-23% since the last two/three days. What could've caused this ?

well if only 20-25% of the hashpower was mining bitcoins in favour.. ofcourse it will end up settling at 25% when the 2016 block count progresses

this one seems to be better
http://bitcoin.sipa.be/ver9-10k.png
blue= future ROUGH expectation
red= current RULE measure
19280  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What is Bitcoin? A Step-By-Step Guide For Beginners on: December 04, 2016, 08:11:19 PM
kinda out dated and iffy. (eg cryptsy!)

i let a 'noob' read it. the first image he said.. oh look a pyramid all the different elements lead to a central point..


seems it needs a rewrite and graphics more like a spiders web more so then everything pointing to one place.
EG a simplified


remember if your talking to beginners think layman. dont show off words you wont usually use everyday.
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