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They are actually selling worthless toilet paper. With that kind of derivative products, which border line the outright scam, the big investment banks have been manipulating the price of gold and silver for years. It looks like we have two new wannabe market maker on the block.
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Well, $88 failed with no resistance whatsoever. I'm starting to think that the only point left with real support is going to be $50ish
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Well, that's some serious fun ahead.  |
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Lol, that is amazing video. Price going from 120 to 180 and back in millisecond, lol Epic day. I spent it trading (or better "watching the sell off", obviously no trading was possible apart from desperately trying to pull bids to place them lower). I saw that happening live, and it was a hell of a ride. I have to admit I enjoyed it. I did not panic sell a single coin (even if I was tempted), but I bought a lot as soon as Gox reopened after the "cooldown". BTW, what a huge Gox fail, I was outraged, such level of amateurism is really beyond me. |
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SEE FAQ #2 ON THE FAQ PAGE
Why are you selling the Miners and don’t mine yourself (will you use the miners for mining yourself)?
We are mining ourselves, but we believe in the bitcoin project and a diversified market is the best for all parties. We will continue to mine but we do not believe in a monopoly of miners.Yeah that's fine, I think. That is different from ASICMiner who is growing into a gigantic solo operation to own the network. I guess time will tell. I'd be curious to know how they pay themselves so they can individually mine on their own...referring to the owners. Heh, so we're clear, according to Paladin69: KnC: Owners will be purchasing their own hardware at cost, mine with it and sell it. - *Good* ASICMiner: Owners purchase their own hardware at cost, mine with it, sell it and share the revenues with their public investors - *Scammer* Aren't you tired of the double standard, Paladin? You might want to rethink throwing around the scammer tagline. --- I'm a strong supporter of both KnC and AM since they're both open and honest about their intentions - I just don't think that there's something inherently wrong with mining with your own hardware. I have a much bigger problem with Avalon and BFL pretending not to mine with their own hardware. You all seem to forget that AM was at least partially (if not totally) funded with the funds raised in the IPO. Is a 50% publicly owned company from minute 1 (meaning BEFORE hardware development and manufacture). Still, it's an amazing example of flawless and honest management (do not forget Friedcat is anonymous and he runs a completely "underground" operation, while delivering flawlessly). What they achieved is impressing and IMO they should be admired. Aspects, I agree. They are ruthlessly efficient, and admittedly their buyers don't seem to complain. You should also know they are not only efficient in delivering hardware. They have been the very best possible management for their investors. They launched the ipo with 200,000 shares priced at 0.1 BTC each, and they paid back the cost of each share to the public IPO investors with the first dividend. All the very first revenue generated by mining was reverted to investors so the people that believed in them was able to immediately breakeven. Plus, they never failed a royalty pay day and they have been completely transparent when explaining delays in deployment, etc. As I said earlier, AM at IPO price has been the very best Bitcoin related investment up to date, hands off - and we had a lot of "mining bonds", securities and schemes of all kinds going on since the early days. |
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In the meanwhile, fiat on Gox's order book reaches new lows since April. Bulls have only $2k-ish BTC guarding $88, that seems a very poor defense line.  |
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But I really, really don't like a fud and people repeating themselves in fud many times. It's an insult to my intelligence to see that someone think I should be reminded we're in bearish market and that someone think his fud posting will make me sell if I don't want to.
I don't see where the insult is if you are acting independently using your own intelligence It is, I hate when someone think I'm stupid. 'cause I'm not  Who thinks you are stupid ? Let it wash over you dude  Thing is, most people here own Bitcoins, so whenever the price goes down those who value them in fiat terms feel pain. Those who truly value them as long term holdings / as 'number of coins held' should, in theory see it as an opportunity to buy more. Speculators see it as just another move to trade. From this simple analysis, it's pretty clear to me the the negative vibe when we go down is caused by those who feel like they are losing money ... people who claim to be 'all about coins' but in reality are not. They are the ones causing the friction through their own internal conflicts. To those people I say, GET SAVVY, DO ANALYSIS. LEARN WHO TO LISTEN TO AND HOW TO TRADE IN ORDER TO ACCUMULATE MORE COINS ...DON'T TAKE IT OUT ON THE REST OF US COS JUST YOU AIN'T GETTING RICH QUICK ENOUGH This! Cheaper coins for everybody, both n00bs and seniors, is nothing to be worried about. Bubble was completely unsustainable, going back to reality is expected, necessary and healthy. Fundamentals remain unchanged. Bitcoin is as sound as solid as it was 6 months ago. More coins is good for you - everybody greet the opportunity and stop whining! |
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What some of you guys need to understand is that your stance bullish/bearish can diverge on different timeframes. It's not "us" vs. "them", this isn't soccer or war.
If you don't care about neither the short nor the mid term trend (say, months ahead), then quite honestly you shouldn't even be reading the speculation forum because it will only serve to distract and distress you when the shorter term trend diverges. If it's not fun, what's the point?
I found it hard in 2011 to accept that the price of Bitcoin, the most important human invention since fire, could go down. "But, but, it's the future! How can it go down?!" I learned the hard way that the market doesn't care what you think, nor does it move in straight lines. This time, I fully embrace the bear in me.  maybe you're betting on the wrong horse again. (not saying). reminds me of rock-paper-scissors. Mr. Market is out to screw you psychologically. If you saw the bear coming since mid April and acted accordingly (selling), you definitely got right the trend and you are now doing well. If by chance the trend reverses right now, you can still buy back at a significant profit, ending up having much more coins than you would have by holding. |
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Don't quite agree, bubble brought loads of publicity bitcoin wouldn't get otherwise so it was good thing. Some got burned, some came to stay.
And crash is not problem or correction or whatever we call it, I'm talking about people being happy and pushing for it. Like Blitz for example - moderator on main bitcoin forum, just look at his posts since he sold. He was nowhere to be seen here but last few days can't stop posting same stuff.. If crash is something that is supposed to happen, I really don't think long time Bitcoin backers should publicly be happy about it, it's an awful thing to read by some noob who's considering going into cryptocurrency.
Kinda lame but I guess that's how it is..
First, if you are "happy" or "unhappy" about price going up or down, you are probably being too emotional. You are not happy or unhappy because its 3AM and there is no sun, it is what it is and its not under your control - full stop. Secondly, what you wrote about a downtrend "being bad for the n00bs" is utter bullshit, I hope you don't really believe that crap. When I first learnt about Bitcoin, I read about it. I learnt about previous history, previous bubble, and one of the very first things I understood about Bitcoin is that it is scarce by design, is a commodity-like asset and thus is prone to speculation and wild volatility, especially at this early stage. If you are thinking about investing in Bitcoin and didn't understood that, you should stop and read more before you spend a penny on it. Because if you don't like to invest in such an unstable asset, you should really invest in a different, risk-averse asset, or in a coin with demurrage built in it like frecoin or the likes. People should learn this: BITCOIN IS PRONE TO BOOM AND BUST CYCLES. Especially at this stage. Its one of its core characteristics. That's why you could buy it for $13 in January, and it was traded at $266 in April. You do not need to be a genius to see that, while au contraire you need to be a delusional fool to believe in the delusional "singularity" crap. Thirdly, since I was a n00b and entered the Bitcoin market for the first time, I was happy about dips, because they are expected and are just a buy opportunity, because fundamentals remain the same regardless of the exchange rate. Thus, this is an excellent time to learn about the market. I had money in the exchange when the crash from $266 started... And that was very good for me, because I was able to buy much cheaper coins. About Blitz: he has provided both well reasoned and experienced insights, you are not paying attention if you are just reading the occasional "trolling". Which, I have to admit I also enjoy, because I find it has an entertaining sense of humour. I admit I also enjoy Adam's "bullish trolling", but I guess this is a more popular statement, as what people seems to not tolerate well is bearish analysis, that seems to trigger massive amounts of butthurt. Bingo. Key word here is ANALYSIS. I find random pictures of rocket ships and cats jumping off walls to be equally useless. Mature investors are willing to discuss both sides of coin as long as see thoughtful analysis put in front of them. There is money to be made moving up and down for the savy trader. Only a cheerleader just wants to hear things that make them feel better. This thread is 70% trolling and cheerleading, and 30% useful analysis. But IMO that mix makes it funny and enjoyable, and the very few completely useless and unbearable trolls (like jaroslaw and Coinseeker) can easily be put on ignore. |
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SEE FAQ #2 ON THE FAQ PAGE
Why are you selling the Miners and don’t mine yourself (will you use the miners for mining yourself)?
We are mining ourselves, but we believe in the bitcoin project and a diversified market is the best for all parties. We will continue to mine but we do not believe in a monopoly of miners.Yeah that's fine, I think. That is different from ASICMiner who is growing into a gigantic solo operation to own the network. I guess time will tell. I'd be curious to know how they pay themselves so they can individually mine on their own...referring to the owners. Heh, so we're clear, according to Paladin69: KnC: Owners will be purchasing their own hardware at cost, mine with it and sell it. - *Good* ASICMiner: Owners purchase their own hardware at cost, mine with it, sell it and share the revenues with their public investors - *Scammer* Aren't you tired of the double standard, Paladin? You might want to rethink throwing around the scammer tagline. --- I'm a strong supporter of both KnC and AM since they're both open and honest about their intentions - I just don't think that there's something inherently wrong with mining with your own hardware. I have a much bigger problem with Avalon and BFL pretending not to mine with their own hardware. You all seem to forget that AM was at least partially (if not totally) funded with the funds raised in the IPO. Is a 50% publicly owned company from minute 1 (meaning BEFORE hardware development and manufacture). Still, it's an amazing example of flawless and honest management (do not forget Friedcat is anonymous and he runs a completely "underground" operation, while delivering flawlessly). What they achieved is impressing and IMO they should be admired. |
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What some of you guys need to understand is that your stance bullish/bearish can diverge on different timeframes. It's not "us" vs. "them", this isn't soccer or war.
If you don't care about neither the short nor the mid term trend (say, months ahead), then quite honestly you shouldn't even be reading the speculation forum because it will only serve to distract and distress you when the shorter term trend diverges. If it's not fun, what's the point?
This is also true, you have been a bull many times in the past, and in fact you confronted the real "FUD spreaders" (Nagle? ) in epic battles I guess people like Shroomskit should dig a bit and learn about the past. |
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Don't quite agree, bubble brought loads of publicity bitcoin wouldn't get otherwise so it was good thing. Some got burned, some came to stay.
And crash is not problem or correction or whatever we call it, I'm talking about people being happy and pushing for it. Like Blitz for example - moderator on main bitcoin forum, just look at his posts since he sold. He was nowhere to be seen here but last few days can't stop posting same stuff.. If crash is something that is supposed to happen, I really don't think long time Bitcoin backers should publicly be happy about it, it's an awful thing to read by some noob who's considering going into cryptocurrency.
Kinda lame but I guess that's how it is..
First, if you are "happy" or "unhappy" about price going up or down, you are probably being too emotional. You are not happy or unhappy because its 3AM and there is no sun, it is what it is and its not under your control - full stop. Secondly, what you wrote about a downtrend "being bad for the n00bs" is utter bullshit, I hope you don't really believe that crap. When I first learnt about Bitcoin, I read about it. I learnt about previous history, previous bubble, and one of the very first things I understood about Bitcoin is that it is scarce by design, is a commodity-like asset and thus is prone to speculation and wild volatility, especially at this early stage. If you are thinking about investing in Bitcoin and didn't understood that, you should stop and read more before you spend a penny on it. Because if you don't like to invest in such an unstable asset, you should really invest in a different, risk-averse asset, or in a coin with demurrage built in it like frecoin or the likes. People should learn this: BITCOIN IS PRONE TO BOOM AND BUST CYCLES. Especially at this stage. Its one of its core characteristics. That's why you could buy it for $13 in January, and it was traded at $266 in April. You do not need to be a genius to see that, while au contraire you need to be a delusional fool to believe in the delusional "singularity" crap. Thirdly, since I was a n00b and entered the Bitcoin market for the first time, I was happy about dips, because they are expected and are just a buy opportunity, because fundamentals remain the same regardless of the exchange rate. Thus, this is an excellent time to learn about the market. I had money in the exchange when the crash from $266 started... And that was very good for me, because I was able to buy much cheaper coins. About Blitz: he has provided both well reasoned and experienced insights, you are not paying attention if you are just reading the occasional "trolling". Which, I have to admit I also enjoy, because I find it has an entertaining sense of humour. I admit I also enjoy Adam's "bullish trolling", but I guess this is a more popular statement, as what people seems to not tolerate well is bearish analysis, that seems to trigger massive amounts of butthurt. |
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hash rate continues to rise...
bitcoin will probably be able compute the meaning of the universe soon .
Make sure your towel is handy. Yeah, there are some plastic covers for the keyboard that do wonders to avoid damage and stickiness |
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And there you have a smallish whale trying to reverse the trend... Failing... Poor thing...
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People are getting to understand what "deflationary currency" truly means right now. Yeah, the USD deflating right now |
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Employee Costs = 150,000 * 20
Legal = 200,000
ISP / DDOS servivers = 120,000
Rent / Security = 120,000
Servers & Utilities = 100,000
= ~ 3.5 MM per year
150k for their "stellar" employees? Wow... do you own a business? I want to work for you! That 150k per employee figure is way off, but still its true that a low btc/usd exchange rate has an enormous impact on Gox's financials. Taking into account their history of honesty but profound amateurism, I also wonder how good they scaled during the "success", and how well are they going to handle this rough moments (because for them these are rough moments, that's for sure). |
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$88 here we come
I missed you so much
As our friend Blitz would say, "The Great Dollar Extraction" is on.
Are you getting 88 from the move up (before the bubble)? Or are you extrapolating somewhere? My number is 82 but as I've said, I don't know that I play a bounce there. This could get violent as large holders might want to sell their coins before others. After all, we are under 100, solidly now... $88 is a monthly low plus a crucial support level, as its part of the $50->$79->$88 "higher lows" trend. |
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$88 here we come
I missed you so much
As our friend Blitz would say, "The Great Dollar Extraction" is on.
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ASIC miners shares started around 0.84BTC, their perceived value is currently around 3.5BTC. It is perceived by those willing to purchase ownership. ASICminers value is still around 0.84 BTC as that is all they're owed for themselves to spend. The 4x increase on resale has been well received by the original investors. New ones won't see that. At a dividend payout of 0.025BTC on average every two weeks, it would take 5.4 years to ROi on ASICminer shares currently.
Sorry, where did you take the number in bold? You have to be quite new in the scene if you don't know that ASIC miner shares started at EXACTLY 0.1BTC (that was the IPO price), and their shares were traded below 0.84 BTC for quite a few weeks even after they started deploying. To be very concrete I just looked into my PM history for you, and exactly on February 11th three members of these forums (rxw, punin and scrypt) offered to me ASICminer shares between 0.36 BTC and 0.5 BTC each. I remember very well that moment because I turned their offers down as those prices looked to me "a tad expensive". Quite a big mistake, as I was very interested in buying, but I didn't. But yeah, hindsight is 20/20. Going back to the real world figures, the increase on resale of ASICminer shares is x35 (and going up), not the laughable x4 you mentioned. It was in a thread I read today, just before replying. IPO price for ASIC miner was 0.1 BTC, and they did sell less than they initially expected. ASICMiner is very probably the best investment ever in the Bitcoin world for those who bought at (or close to) IPO price. |
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5 BTC says i make your clone and teach you how to launch it.
20 BTC for a full do it yourself guide.
Man, how can you destroy the market like that, dumping the prices to 5 BTC!!! How we respectable clone-makers-for-hire can even dream of making a living with people like you around? |
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