Ok someone already called it last night, the (drumroll please) "stuck in customs" excuse.
Jet lag guy had over 24 hours to think of a better reason than that, is that the best he could do?
I called it last night, LOL. I don't doubt the Avalon guys. I just doubt the customs guy. He will likely make announcements on the chips being stuck @ customs. Hence the multi-week delay.
Then he will make an announcement that their gen2 products are in the prototyping phase.
The crystal ball knows all! |
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Just giving us "there is currently ~200k chips stuck in custom right at this moment for about 2 weeks now, this matter is very painful for us and our customers" is fucking unacceptable. First off prove to us they are stuck in customs. Second, why are they stuck in customs.
Fuck you for barely giving us a paragraph of useful information in a 10 million dollar situation. This isn't the time to admit defeat to the community and to the customers. Man the fuck up and give us more information. And how dare you flaunt your up and coming products while we are left with fuck all after putting our money in your hands. BFL is even fucking better than you with PR.
Don't worry, others will buy it off you for pennies on the dollar! There are buyers ready to save your asses (with a haircut!). |
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TL; DR; Gen1 chips buyers eat shits  Thank you all for subsidizing the next generation of Avalon Technology. Gen 2: 55nm Gen 3: (Full Custom) Gen 4: (Full Custom) [/Inaba freakout] |
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He will likely make announcements on the chips being stuck @ customs. Hence the multi-week delay.
Then he will make an announcement that their gen2 products are in the prototyping phase.
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The News will be: "I am in North Korea suckers, no refunds for you" "Darn.., nobody here takes BTCs  " Yifu is just working his way towards the goal. @ 5x BFL's speed. (Yes, that is damn fast!)  |
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"I'm not dead." TM - Yifu
"2 more weeks." TM - Josh
Where are the products we ordered and when are they going to be delivered?
"I'm not dead." TM - Yifu "2 more weeks." TM - Josh "I'm not drunk!" TM - Tom You forgot: "We're ready - where's the promised chips? a" TM - Burnin "We're ready - where's the promised chips? b" TM - BkkCoins "We're ready - where's the promised chips? ∞" TM - Pretty Much Everyone oh yeah and "Fuck Off YiFu" TM - Kano Go back to slurpin some Josh.  |
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Payments been made, and items have already be proven to exist by disenchanted former members of Bitsyncom. Someone have a thread reference for this, I seem to have missed it. Others have mentioned a rumour of someone paying $14m for the above and the promise to delay everyone else's shipments to pre-mine being the reason for the Bitsyncom split, but I'm not sure where that's from, but it's mentioned somewhere in that WTF Avalon thread. Yeah, pretty sure that was me casting aspersions, lol. So Anenome5, you were the one who came up with the 14m claim and the delays of shipment? (Need clarity!) |
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Payments been made, and items have already be proven to exist by disenchanted former members of Bitsyncom. Someone have a thread reference for this, I seem to have missed it. Others have mentioned a rumour of someone paying $14m for the above and the promise to delay everyone else's shipments to pre-mine being the reason for the Bitsyncom split, but I'm not sure where that's from, but it's mentioned somewhere in that WTF Avalon thread. In any case those chips were proven as you can see to exist a month ago and posted by a disenchanted former member of Bitsyncom's design team, Gridchip. Furthermore Terrahsh and Burnin' already have 'customers' demanding full refunds as they don't believe they will see ROI, which is not their fault, and what's worse they've already designed, and manufactured working products and stocked inventory for chips that appear to have been witheld to a point in which they will no longer be of any value if they are not delivered ASAP. I need some clarity on this issue. Did GridChip also make the claim that it was 14m and the chip deliveries were delayed? Or was that another source? (I understand so far that Gridchip took photos of the chips in their trays and mentioned a split, but I want to make sure the story is coming from one and the same person and not two or more people.) |
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Hahahaha, get ready for bad news.
Want to put your money where your mouth is? OK, whoever loses has to virtually blow the other one . . .deal? Or 1btc?  |
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the "i'm not dead thread."
Just got off the plane, expect lots of news tomorrow.
Rumor has it that you were dead or were now working with BFL. (Hence the delays <*elbow jab*>) Any truth to this rumor that I just started?   |
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People struggling to get refunds should probably also call Sonny Vleisides' probation officer in order to let him know about the situation. BFL changing customers' order statuses to "shipped" in order to fool the customer and/or paypal is clearly fraudulent.
Apparently, she already knows. Supposedly, she has been in contact with certain parties and does read the forums. |
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Fucking fantastic if it's true! PayPal finally listened. Shut these bastards down!  Does this mean that PayPal has revoked their account? I am quietly optimistic that they finally figured it out. Also, does this mean that previous PayPal buyers won't be able to get their refunds through PayPal anymore if their account is suspended/terminated?? |
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So basically from a few BFL_Josh threads from the BFL forums I have come to the understanding that the Refund policy had to change because too many people were coming to grips (including myself) that BFL were not going to deliver. Deliver in time or not at all. The hedging allegation from BFL is a smokescreen.
Perhaps refunds were awarded on a case by case basis depending on how you paid. If paid by paypal well no because there are now too many refund requests (obviously) and Paypal would shut down BFL's Paypal account due to excessive refunds.
Can anyone confirm they just recently (after No refund declaration from BFL) that they have easily gotten a refund for a BTC payment?
From PayPal's point-o'-view, isn't a good faith refund, no matter how many, better in their eyes than 100's of customers complaining via their refund/fraud department. The results are virtually the same--refunds paid. If PP ToS states that no funds are to be used for the development of a product, and BFL clearly states that that's what the pre-order moneys are destined for, an automatic refund via PayPal should be granted without any further review. LOL PG, I noticed this in the various rules PayPal stipulates a company must abide by. I am glad someone else noticed it as well. |
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The hedging allegation from BFL is a smokescreen.
FTFY. Read this "Boohoo, I'm being molested on the interwebs" post. He he listing the very 4 data that could just make the trolling stop, once and for all.Listing this information would be VERY easy for them, probably MUCH less a hassle than posting pay dates. How would it not be easier to know how many units they ship per day, rather than check the pay date for the last shiped unit of the day? So they are clearly, actively, spending energy to keep the smoke screen up. Correct, people are waking up to that fact. Notice that he didn't provide any data points to increase useful information. Instead he attempted to discredit the person that was making a valid point. To increase doubts in the minds of many that the argument presented is useless.  As you can see from the image above, he is fully aware that the catch22 truth is unavoidable. An ungodly number of their customers will be on the losing end of this deal. This is a massive signal that BFL is aware of the problem and don't give a damn. They have their customers trapped anyway. As long as everyone believes they really are trapped, their printed toilet paper disclaimer allows them to basically get away with entrapping customers funds. ------------------------ Read my lips, BFL is no longer viable. And if it still is, it won't be for very long. |
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? Paypal allows anyone with a credit card to pay using it as a funding source. I have never heard of any type of actual restrictions you could use to prevent it from happening. |
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Good Catch...searching for the post by Big_Fracking_Liar_Josh where he said that they were not using the Pre-order funds until they where in the actual build process. BTW asshole Josh you are not in the build process of my order as of now and you can't even tell me when that will happen so stuff your BS up yours!
In the very next sentence they explain why this is necessary: It's also been observed that some small number of customers have placed orders as part of a bitcoin price hedging strategy which involves multiple requests to cancel and then re-enstate their orders as market conditions change. Let's see how this works out in theory and how the small number of customers have taken advantage of the exchange rate. Months ago, a customer buys a unit for $2,000 and pays with X bitcoins. Customer later request a refund, it's granted, and they receive $2,000 in Y bitcoins (doesn't matter if the exchange rate went up or down). Then, the customer reorders, paying $2,000 once again with Z bitcoins, but is now in a much later queue position. As any idiot can see, the customer comes out like a bandit, and BFL was wise to stop this practice before it got outta hand. I aspire to be as SMART as BFL some day.   That explanation makes absolutely zero sense. If people did that, they would lose money like crazy. Therefore, it's bullshit.  |
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I'm hedging squat with BFL or any other Pre-order ASIC business. I put my faith and Trust in BFL and placed several orders in Early to Mid 2013 based on Josh Updates
...two more weeks full production...300 units day...400 units a day...ship all exiting pre-orders by end of Aug 2013....
ALL A PACK OF LIES
I never agreed to wait 7 months or more and at the time of my going into a contractual sale of a pre-sale, refunds were available as stated on the FAQ at the time.
I want all my money back and when I do, I'm going to lick my wounds and get out of this ASIC nonsense. I'm at the point of just feeling I'm gaining by not losing my very own money.
Does your experience reflect:  Or  Personally I am:  With a mix of:  |
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Presently Aug 7, 2013
Can I get a refund on my order?
A
While we reserve the right to handle refund requests on a case by case basis, pre-ordered products are non-refundable as is clearly stated at the time of purchase. The reason for this is that pre-order funds are used in the build process which makes it impractical to reverse. It's also been observed that some small number of customers have placed orders as part of a bitcoin price hedging strategy which involves multiple requests to cancel and then re-enstate their orders as market conditions change. This has created an enormous customer service burden which is resolved by enforcing the all sales final policy.
Translated from Bullshit to English: What ("I think") they really mean is that people were using/abusing Paypal in 45 day intervals. As well as reserving the right to drop BFL like a hot potato as soon as they were not selling the hottest promise in vaporware delivery. My interpretation: A) Customers were constantly (due to massive BFL delays) cancelling their orders and re-opening them at a later date. Probably made BFL have alot of problems with their bank and Paypal for moving such huge volumes of money back and forth. (IMO) B) Customers would move their money from BFL to other vendors (Avalon/bASIC) like herds of sheeple as soon as the next hot thing in ASIC technology came out. Thats what they probably meant as hedging. Which probably tells you that it was a significant problem. Some customers have asked why we've given order cancelation refunds to others, but they can't get one. The answer is that we had opted to process order cancelation requests during our long product development phase as a courtesy to those who endured the stress of the unknown. However, once full production began, a notice was sent out advising that orders would be shipped as produced according to the order queue and that if anyone was unwilling to endure the wait, they had a final opportunity to cancel. Customers were required to positively confirm their desire to remain in the order queue and accept the order terms. I guess you all should have asked what the terms were before you agreed to them.... Suckers. Pre-Order terms for new orders were updated on the website on April 1, 2013. The terms state, "I accept the terms of the sale and understand that all sales are final and there is a backlog of orders and production & delivery of my order may take 2 months or longer."
As a Wyoming Corporation, we operate under the US Federal Trade Commission's business guide for mail or telephone ordered merchandise. The relevant guideline suggests that if no delivery terms are stated or agreed to, then 30 days should be assumed. In our case, we've gone to great length to ensure there is no ambiguity. Customers are/were notified of the back order situation, the inability to cancel their order and the multi month wait to be expected.
Here is the relevant FTC guideline text:
"when you advertise merchandise, you must have a reasonable basis for stating or implying that you can ship within a certain time. If you make no shipment statement, you must have a reasonable basis for believing that you can ship within 30 days."
In other words: We think we can do what no one else in the industry has ever done before. Paper our walls with printed toilet paper full of "Get out of Jail" escape clauses and hope this protects our ass from lengthy non-deliveries. Bam, problem solved. (as long as you think we actually have the upper hand?) |
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Difficulty has gone up 25x. That means that device is even less profitable now than when he made that comment.
True. BFL is so late that their devices will never ROI.
Hogwash. My 2x $1300 SC Singles are quite likely to return their purchase price in a few months. Not hogwash. If you don't have them already, then it is like saying *when* you do get it, it will produce $2600 in a reasonable period of time. Take into account that the amount of profit in each subsequent month deceases by a significant percentage point. So your ROI gets longer and longer each day you don't have it in your hands and turn it on to starting making your return. |
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