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2501  Other / Off-topic / Re: Who else is fed up with the core development team? on: June 25, 2013, 11:13:08 PM
It starts with "goo" and ends with "gle".

I don't think google will help me there as btcd hasn't been fully released yet.

Googled btcd, second link: https://opensource.conformal.com/wiki/btcd

At the bottom are the links to all the live code repositories for the various subprojects.

Damn, I'm tired from all that hard work Wink.
2502  Economy / Economics / Re: The end is near on: June 25, 2013, 10:54:36 PM
I want to warn you about all these gloom and doom predictions.

If you would have followed these doomsday preachers you would have missed out on the huge rise in the markets and you would have bought gold at its peak. There are still people saying "buy gold and run from the stock market". These people are screwing you over. Gold is going down to $1000.

I love Max Keiser's show, but don't follow his advice.

Yes, we are in dire straights. Yes the numbers are ALL bad. We are in for a volatile year. But this paper game goes on because no one can pull the plug. You panic - you are personally doomed.


"The markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent" - This quote is probably the only useful think Keynes ever contributed. The fact is, I believe these people like Max Keiser are right about their predictions. It's just things take a long time to play out. The fact is, logically what is happening in the global economy is temporary in nature and cannot continue for ever. Logically, there is going to be a big crisis. Markets can remain irrational for a short period, but eventually mathematics rules.

I don't think it's going to be a 30 year wait before a big readjustment. I am betting strongly it's no more than 2 years.

I am not a doomsday preacher, but I do believe there is a big crisis on the horizon. I am positive we'll get over it, but I do believe it's going to be worse than anything experienced in modern history.

That's not the only contribution Keynes made, but politicized neo-Keynesians like to forget he said that you should tighten your belt and reduce debt during boom times.
2503  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [POLL] Why don't you mine in p2pool? on: June 25, 2013, 10:01:16 PM
Skimming shares is exactly what my software does.  Can you please tell me how to do it without having the mining software report this:
Quote
Accepted untracked stratum share

I will be very appreciative since that message tends to scare off new users who don't read the OP carefully.

I guess something is wrong with your code and how it handles stratum connections. Have you seen this? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=28402.msg2167883#msg2167883

I was using sarcasm... my point is the statum protocol will make it quite obvious if someone rewrites the share's payout address as I am.
2504  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin DOWN, Litecoin UP on: June 25, 2013, 09:33:55 PM
Sorry, will not support scam-coins. ( alt-coin ? ... same as blockchain fork to me, I will stay on longer chain )

Litecoin would be the absolute LEAST scammy of the alt-coins and the blockchain is 50% longer  Tongue
Namecoin actually provides an innovative use case, and not if you weight by difficulty, which is how cryptocurrencies judge chain length.

Quote
Bitcoin DOWN and Litecoin UP.
This could be a theme for the next months...

What do you think? Discuss.


Really, this is only because of Gox bringing LTC trading to their site. They say in July, but I would wager a guess that something will delay it further

People who buy on news like this always make me wonder about our survival as a species.
2505  Other / Off-topic / Re: Who else is fed up with the core development team? on: June 25, 2013, 09:28:47 PM
You don't need to be a coder to be a tester.  Why do you spend your time bitching when you could be testing.
2506  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER Speculation Thread on: June 25, 2013, 09:22:51 PM
Are there really people in favor of clogging up the blockchain with microtransactions just so that they could get a daily dividend? I don't believe this would be in the best interest of bitcoin, and therefore not in the best interest of AM.

What, what? One transaction per day would be "clogging up"?  Huh


That only leaves 99.999998347% of the maximum transaction volume for the rest of the network!!!!!

Yes, this is including the current 1MB/block cap.
2507  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It on: June 25, 2013, 09:04:11 PM
Reminder / Update

ThickAsThieves, VJain, Franktank and myself have put together the next round of questions for the community to vote on.

Once we have a consensus of the top three questions, ThickAsThieves will submit them to Friedcat.

The last round was a big success, so we will continue doing this for the foreseeable future.

The questions are available for voting here:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1M7wigyDWjKjabHKdC7msaEfXvYaNxtMbbmTIRss8EqU/viewform

If there is a question that is not listed, please let us know and we will discuss adding it.

Thanks for ignoring me, I was the first response after you asked for questions:
I nominate a query about mining a small amount on p2pool in order to keep it finding at least a block a day.  In fact, with p2pool, if they are able to mine more efficiently than the average, they can potentially earn more than solo mining.

P2pool currently has a 30.2 hour average block time.  Helping keep p2pool alive is beneficial to the community and if the operators can achieve lower latency than the average the payout should beat solo mining[1].

1. http://p2pool.me/payment-system/
2508  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: June 25, 2013, 08:56:18 PM
China ain't gonna collapse as long as there are production business left in the western world to out-source. Give it another decade.

In another decade China's exports will have collapsed as American robots and 3D printers lead a resurgence in western manufacturing.  Even China can't beat unpaid labor.
3D Printers are robots.
And who is gonna build the robots? And most importantly who's gonna supply the raw materials?

Robots will do most robot manufacture, and some repair.  There will always be maintenance people, but a 5 man team can keep an entire factory rolling.  Since there is almost no labor demand, their wages won't be that high anyway.  We may be slightly more than a decade away, but I believe we will see significant progress towards this.

You have no idea how many junkyards with over 50,000 tons of scrap steel I have within 100 miles of my house.  Americans have been throwing shit away like crazy for decades.  We also mine quite a bit of various metals.  Yes, there are some resources we lack, but we have a great abundance of energy and arable land.
2509  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: June 25, 2013, 08:44:03 PM
China ain't gonna collapse as long as there are production business left in the western world to out-source. Give it another decade.

In another decade China's exports will have collapsed as American robots and 3D printers lead a resurgence in western manufacturing.  Even China can't beat unpaid labor.
2510  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [POLL] Why don't you mine in p2pool? on: June 25, 2013, 08:02:32 PM
No pool was trusted from launch just "by default". Maybe you should select yourself a low latency node here http://p2pool.hostv.pl/ and give it a try! Also, there are some nodes which have been here for quite long time like p2pool.org and others.
The main fear I have is a malicious node operator skimming shares. It would be very hard to detect because the node could just say the share was "stale", and take it for himself. This can be done with traditional pools too, but even the smallest pools are magnitudes larger than p2pool nodes.

I run a p2pool back mining pool so people with low hashpower can use p2pool with lower variance:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=234841.0

Skimming shares is exactly what my software does.  Can you please tell me how to do it without having the mining software report this:
Quote
Accepted untracked stratum share

I will be very appreciative since that message tends to scare off new users who don't read the OP carefully.
2511  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: A guide for mining efficiently on P2Pool, includes FUD repellent and FAQ on: June 25, 2013, 07:53:06 PM
Re: p2pool and BFL SCs

There appears to have been a recent change to the firmware from one job per board to one job per chip
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status-3.html#post43041

They claim, "This has fixed a lot of the latency issues we were experiencing with the early firmware."

jalepenos only have 2 chips, so at best this is a factor of 2...

Anyways, the new p2pool release should help a bit too.

Does not compute in our case. If you suppose you can't interrupt a job, having one per board is better as it finishes faster.

So either Josh didn't understand at all and the switch was from one per chip to one per board (which would be good for P2Pool) or they solved a problem completely different from what was spotted by ckolivas (and it's probably bad for P2Pool, you might not want to update your firmware unless you can downgrade it later).

EDIT: Come to think of it, you are probably right since the chips should compute nonce ranges in very close to the same amount of time, so I'm happy if you ignore this.  I'll just post in case anyone else has a similar objection.

Are you sure about that?  Needing to reset work is a stochastic event and thus each chip will be somewhere in the range from just starting to almost done.  You are very clearly right if all chips are synchronized, but I'm not sure they are.  I'm a bit weak on stats, so I'm not sure here.  I could probably review a proof, but if I had to prove it either way myself, I would probably just do a monte carlo simulation.
2512  Economy / Economics / Re: Which is better - Jale in hand now, or a Single in 3 months? on: June 25, 2013, 02:11:43 AM
How do they "cost about the same"?

But either way:  subtract however much they cost you each from the values below.  I assumed block change at the two week intervals mining 100% uptime.  And took random stabs at difficulty over the next 5 months:

Code:
weeks          5ghs	60ghs	   Difficulty(est)
2        182   19m
4        140   25m
6        119   30m
8        84   40m
10        65   55m
12        51   70m
14        40 476   90m
16        36 420   100m
18        28 336   125m
20        24 280   150m
__________________________
       769 1512
Less Cost of Hardware


If difficulty goes up at that rate, the adjustments will happen much quicker than 2 weeks.  That said, I doubt we'll see that much difficulty that quickly unless price starts to rise again.
2513  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 25, 2013, 02:06:23 AM
Oversold:


Loved this graph.

Can someone please explain to me what are each of the 3 or 4 graphs in the lower area?

They are all various types of oscillators that do indeed show oversold condition on the 4 hour interval.  However, we are neither oversold on the daily nor weekly interval.  People new to trading tend to be myopic and miss the longer term conditions that control the overall trend.
2514  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 24, 2013, 09:31:43 PM
Oversold and overbought only applies in a ranging market as trend reversals. When in a trending market, moving into overbought/oversold is to be regarded as the confirmation, and leaving it as a possible trend reversal.

Check it out:

]http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/chart.png?width=940&m=mtgoxUSD&SubmitButton=Draw&r=90&i=&c=1&s=2012-12-01&e=2013-05-01&Prev=&Next=&t=S&b=&a1=&m1=20&a2=&m2=10&x=1&i1=RSI&i2=&i3=&i4=&v=0&cv=0&ps=0&l=0&p=0&

This.  Also, overbought and oversold are dependent on the time frame you are discussing.  As you can see above, on the daily scale we are nowhere near oversold.

That's what I'm referring to. Indicators are only used to see if a market might be oversold or not. Try looking at the Accumulation / Distribution of 2013 in comparison to 2011 to get an idea of the big picture.

I don't get it.  You're telling me to look at the big picture while screaming the market is oversold based on some short term wiggles.  Longer term we are nowhere near oversold.
2515  Economy / Speculation / Re: Silver at 29 ,Bitcoin at 30. this is no-brainer.. on: June 24, 2013, 09:25:35 PM

Don't forget about one of the fastest growing applications of silver yet, solar panels. Panel manufacturers are huge consumers of silver and it's very unlikely it will ever be recovered once consumed.

Gold + Silver + BTC = solid investments. Diversify.

Silver being used in solar panels is use value, not exchange value. Silver is fast loosing its moneyness.  I think the silver bugs are fooled by history in believing silver is good for smaller transactions. The main reason silver was used as money, was that some kings had access to silver mines, and no gold. Plus, they could sometimes extract value out of their population by declaring only silver as money, hoard the gold, then declare only gold to be money. Anyway the gold to silver ratio was sometimes pegged. For instance, the arabs fixed the value 6:1 for hundreds of years, profiting on the carry trade between europe and the east (while at the same time it was 12:1 in Europe). Things like this could not tick now. Silver is goners as money.
Silver as money has been gone for a long time,but  it is the second most used commodity in the world. Only Oil has more uses than Silver in the modern world. Its is daily needed right across the board.
PM have a lifespan of thousand of years, Fiats lifespan is centuries and bitcoins will be decades. You just need to look how fast the digital world moves. How much use would you have with a 486 machine in todays world? Well it was a mighty machine too.
I dare to say that Bitcoin cant even match a steam engine in terms of useful lifespan. A steam-engine was revolutionary and world changing on its day, but quickly outpaced. Today, enthusiast still operate steam engines in a hundred yeas no-one will use a bitcoin, not even enthusiasts.   

A combustion engine is not much different from a steam engine if you look at the principles (and function).

A 486 was not an invention. Invention was the transistor and integrated circuit.

Cryptocurrency will be around in 100 years, I'm sure. It might even still be bitcoin. There will hopefully be some innovation improving upon the concept along the way, but the general idea is here to stay.

Crytocurrencys will be around in a 100 years nobody is disputing that, but Bitcoin wont be used that is sure. Looking at the speed the digital world moves any software looks dated after a couple of years. 30 years or more for a software yeh, right. The first spreadsheet program was a marvelous piece of software (what was the name again?).
The general idea is still there in a modern spreadsheet, but thats about it.

You mean like grep?

It's 40 years old and used daily by millions of programmers and system administrators.
2516  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 24, 2013, 09:18:28 PM
Oversold and overbought only applies in a ranging market as trend reversals. When in a trending market, moving into overbought/oversold is to be regarded as the confirmation, and leaving it as a possible trend reversal.

Check it out:

]http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/chart.png?width=940&m=mtgoxUSD&SubmitButton=Draw&r=90&i=&c=1&s=2012-12-01&e=2013-05-01&Prev=&Next=&t=S&b=&a1=&m1=20&a2=&m2=10&x=1&i1=RSI&i2=&i3=&i4=&v=0&cv=0&ps=0&l=0&p=0&

This.  Also, overbought and oversold are dependent on the time frame you are discussing.  As you can see above, on the daily scale we are nowhere near oversold.
2517  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It on: June 24, 2013, 09:02:02 PM
Quote
This is just my opinion, but I don't think AM needs or wants widespread investor awareness. The general public isn't aware of BTC, much less a foreign company mining and selling BTC mining hardware. Presuming Joe investor gets over those concepts, they then get to learn that purchasing shares amounts to using an "entertainment website" with pass-through shares and that "real" shares are maintained by a guy in China with spreadsheet. I really think that this is too much to expect.

I wasn't saying it to advertise shares, it's to advertise their hardware.  The same thing about a sales site.  Advertising their stocks has no benefit to them, but selling more hardware does.

Quote
- Investors should use pass-through shares whenever they think they might hold the shares for less than 90 days or for transactions fewer than 10-20 shares. There are over 100 owners with shares in the single digits and I imagine that this creates extra administrative overhead for AM.
I completely disagree with this.  If it is too much work, then they need to get a better system.  Why should shareholders be inconvenienced because AM has failed to put proper systems in place?  I've seen a number of people offer to help, code or do whatever to get some sort of share system in place, but AM has refused.  They are choosing the current system, not us. 



I think ASICMiner's plan to focus on wholesale is better than selling directly to consumers.
2518  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: pool.yrral.net P2Pool backed mining pool ALPHA on: June 24, 2013, 08:53:34 PM
Payout TxID: 23819c6456687172fb3f8f72cf0b99c0d01de06b77e4beb3183d48360923598a

I had to drop the payout to 1Q68UdKBYgBVy7h4gAAXcipaoBPeoJZrXQ since it is below the dust limit (If I include it most nodes won't forward my transaction and most miners won't include it).  If you send enough hashpower my way to earn more than the dust limit I will include the 0.00000042 BTC owed in your next payout.
2519  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 24, 2013, 08:45:01 PM
(...) that's why we're having this brain dead market that should be rising, but instead it is fighting against this insanity. The market doesn't want to go down, but it might, because of the people who believe it will.

 Roll Eyes

LOL.... somehow the market has a different opinion than the market.
2520  Economy / Speculation / Re: hashrate is dropping below prediction on: June 24, 2013, 08:04:39 PM
Difficulty "recession" is knocking at the door.

http://dot-bit.org/tools/nextDifficulty.php

See last 120 blocks...


This rather interesting, but don't forget ASIC have only started to ship.. between avalon, bfl, and knc there are probably tens of thousands of units (ordered) waiting to ship...

Meanwhile, if you order from ASICMiner, you can have your hardware within a few days.

Methinks: so maybe 3 major ASICs producers have coincidentally stopped their pre-shipping "burnin tests", more or less around the same time.

KNC doesn't even have chips yet... Avalon has been recently exposed as mining with customer hardware with some credible evidence.  BFL claims they don't burn-in on bitcoin production net, but we all know what their word is worth.
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