...snip...
Actually they can. Think about it. A company make as many shoes as they want and sell for whatever the market will bear. If they don't like the price, they will stop. And its the exact same with governments and money.
Except history shows that money is a confidence game, and confidence can evaporate quickly. If shoe prices fall, oh well, your feet are still covered. If the currency crashes, now you can't eat. If the currency crashes, there remains the same amount of food in the market. No-one will go hungry. If need be, people will use barter until another currency emerges. Except that the food supply is now controlled by corporations, not family farmers. Even when times are good, those who are at the bottom of the income ladder frequently go hungry. you are not being logical now. A currency crash does not cause family farmers to disappear and become corporations. Corporations doesn't refuse to sell their products because of a currency falling in value. And food in the market does get sold - even if only for bartering. And none of this is affected by lifting the debt ceiling. I never said that the currency crash would cause that, just that it has already happened, at least in the US. Family farmers can't compete with government subsidized corporations. Yes, eventually things will work out. But in the mean time, millions of people who were already struggling will starve to death since their meager income is all they have to offer. But, you won't understand that since your arguments boil down to "I have assets, I'll be fine, fuck everyone else". |
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bitcoin IOU != bitcoin
As you said yourself, bitcoin IOUs sell at a discount to bitcoin, so they can't possibly be equivalent.
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...snip...
Actually they can. Think about it. A company make as many shoes as they want and sell for whatever the market will bear. If they don't like the price, they will stop. And its the exact same with governments and money.
Except history shows that money is a confidence game, and confidence can evaporate quickly. If shoe prices fall, oh well, your feet are still covered. If the currency crashes, now you can't eat. If the currency crashes, there remains the same amount of food in the market. No-one will go hungry. If need be, people will use barter until another currency emerges. Except that the food supply is now controlled by corporations, not family farmers. Even when times are good, those who are at the bottom of the income ladder frequently go hungry. |
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Lol, good comparison with the shoe's, the US has arrived at the shoe shop event horizon: http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Shoe_Event_HorizonMaybe its hyper inflation but happening very slowly due to the sheer size. They can keep creating debt indefinitely but they won't keep finding creditors indefinitely so they'll end up isolated. Eventually the dollar will drop low enough for US made goods to be competitive in the global market and exports rise, ie. currency wars. Fuck shoes, let's turn into birds. |
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Classic fallacy comparing a person with a credit card to a government. Of course you could live on a credit card forever if you owned a money printing press. The best thing is that once you are really seriously in debt, the lenders are screwed. They are more scared of you defaulting that you are of borrowing. So they reduce your interest rate.
Bernanke says "appearantly, there is no inflation". He appearantly knows that more money leads to inflation, can't see it, and then shrugs and take advantage of the situation. The government is really like a person with a credit card, but with these differences: The governement lives forever, so the lenders don't worry about that. Second, like a bully it can just take whatever it wants from the constituents in taxes. Third it can print new money and lend out non-existing money, which is analog to a bar owner diluting the whisky. When it comes to government and currency, the better analogy to compare to is a distillery and whiskey. They can make as much as they want and charge whatever the market will bear. Because there are laws keeping out competition. If anyone could make whisky, they would easily meet demand and price would be a small markup over costs. OK scratch whiskey - Ergogan used the analogy of whiskey being diluted in a bar. A government and money is like a shoe factory and shoes. They can make as much as they want and charge whatever the market will bear. But they can't. There are only so many feet that need shoes. Actually they can. Think about it. A company make as many shoes as they want and sell for whatever the market will bear. If they don't like the price, they will stop. And its the exact same with governments and money. Except history shows that money is a confidence game, and confidence can evaporate quickly. If shoe prices fall, oh well, your feet are still covered. If the currency crashes, now you can't eat. |
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Heads Up!
Ritual Shaming of the Bears in the progress.
Bearish indicator Only if you think that the posts on speculation forums matter. ^^ Single posts, no. But when there is a clear bias of opinion shared by most posters... It's a great lagging indicator, it shows you what people have done. After they've bought they will post here that they think Bitcoin will go up and when they have sold they will post here why they think it will go down. It's usually more effective to look at the charts and news though ^^ Unless you have a bot that can read the news and trade, you will not react quick enough for that to be useful. Knowing what people have done is the basis for why you look at charts. The market eats overconfident positions. |
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...
Because there are laws keeping out competition. If anyone could make whisky, they would easily meet demand and price would be a small markup over costs.
You're forgetting that whisky is an analogy only, and like all models fails in many respects. Though the whisky made by people other than the government issuer may look & taste like whisky, it won't get you drunk like gobment whisky. The "drunk" is the "backing" of currency. Except, going back to money, bitcoin is the nongovernment "whisky" and it does the jobs of wealth storage and international transfer far better. |
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Who would accept your promissory notes over the real thing?
You got it all backwards. When I'm the one to lend you a bitcoin, I'm also the one who will accept that promissory note over the "real thing". Why? Because I'll receive interest. It might be backwards, but the point still stands. You think that promissory note has the same purchasing power as bitcoin? Who else is going to accept it? Think this through. You've exchanged a bitcoin for a bitcoin-backed promissory note. No bitcoin created. No Bitcoin created indeed. And if you aren't paid back, you don't get interest or principle. This is how money is supposed to work, but with fiat we have centralized lending so we can socialize losses while fighting to maintain privatization of profits. |
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Heads Up!
Ritual Shaming of the Bears in the progress.
Bearish indicator Only if you think that the posts on speculation forums matter. ^^ Single posts, no. But when there is a clear bias of opinion shared by most posters... |
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Classic fallacy comparing a person with a credit card to a government. Of course you could live on a credit card forever if you owned a money printing press. The best thing is that once you are really seriously in debt, the lenders are screwed. They are more scared of you defaulting that you are of borrowing. So they reduce your interest rate.
Bernanke says "appearantly, there is no inflation". He appearantly knows that more money leads to inflation, can't see it, and then shrugs and take advantage of the situation. The government is really like a person with a credit card, but with these differences: The governement lives forever, so the lenders don't worry about that. Second, like a bully it can just take whatever it wants from the constituents in taxes. Third it can print new money and lend out non-existing money, which is analog to a bar owner diluting the whisky. When it comes to government and currency, the better analogy to compare to is a distillery and whiskey. They can make as much as they want and charge whatever the market will bear. Because there are laws keeping out competition. If anyone could make whisky, they would easily meet demand and price would be a small markup over costs. OK scratch whiskey - Ergogan used the analogy of whiskey being diluted in a bar. A government and money is like a shoe factory and shoes. They can make as much as they want and charge whatever the market will bear. But they can't. There are only so many feet that need shoes. |
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Classic fallacy comparing a person with a credit card to a government. Of course you could live on a credit card forever if you owned a money printing press. The best thing is that once you are really seriously in debt, the lenders are screwed. They are more scared of you defaulting that you are of borrowing. So they reduce your interest rate.
Bernanke says "appearantly, there is no inflation". He appearantly knows that more money leads to inflation, can't see it, and then shrugs and take advantage of the situation. The government is really like a person with a credit card, but with these differences: The governement lives forever, so the lenders don't worry about that. Second, like a bully it can just take whatever it wants from the constituents in taxes. Third it can print new money and lend out non-existing money, which is analog to a bar owner diluting the whisky. When it comes to government and currency, the better analogy to compare to is a distillery and whiskey. They can make as much as they want and charge whatever the market will bear. Because there are laws keeping out competition. If anyone could make whisky, they would easily meet demand and price would be a small markup over costs. |
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I think it's because bitstamp's order execution is not atomic, unlike gox and btce. On gox and btce, orders are instantly executed against any available opposing orders BEFORE the remainder appears on the book. However, notice on bitstamp how you can see crossed orders on the book before they execute - you are seeing the trader's original order on the book first and THEN it gets executed later by some algorithm (fifo?). Also the execution is arbitrarily marked as a buy or a sell which is why you see red/green mixed up on services. It is not atomic. So during the crash even though you saw a 90 ask, it wasn't really available because there was a huge line of people ahead of you waiting to execute against it. And I could also see executions of 95 and 105 being mixed together in the tape.
For the worlds new btc market leader, their trading engine sure needs a lot of work. Also the UI could be improved and made more robust for traders.
+1 If volume continues to pick up, everyone cheering for stamp will switch to complaining. |
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i hope they get the story straight and show how the FBI framed him for those hits that never happened.
Good luck there. The official narrative will be what "everybody" remembers. |
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How many Bitcoins you will need to hold to be part of this new elite?
1 |
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Considering that inflation is a shell game, transferring wealth rather than inherently creating or destroying it, do you think that the majority benefits from inflation? Do you even feel that a large minority benefits?
I think there are a small proportion of people whose savings vastly exceed their debts, and massively more people whose debts exceed their savings, or who are roughly neutral. And yet, you don't see how a system that encourages debt over savings could be problematic? |
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BEARISH IN THE MOST EXTREME WAY!
I think all the people who think bitcoins are going to revolutionize the world are the ones on drugs. Its a boiler room scam that several exchanges are making a boatload of money off of. Any recourse if anything goes wrong? NO! Have fun!
 .... So why are you here? I think I just like to be a dick. I want to burst every bulls bubble on here. We'll you'd have to see price fall below 0 to put me at a loss  . How's that work? Free electric and all mined coins? If so, your hardware lifespan is reduced, for a very tiny loss at $0 :p I mined my btc with GPUs bought specifically for bitcoin in early 2010. I have since sold enough bitcoin to cover the hardware and electrical costs, plus I have sold the GPUs as well for about 50% of what I paid. Even if every bitcoin I have is worthless, I have taken more USD out than I put in. Do you have a price you are holding til? No. I have most in long term, offline storage. I will only break into them if I can use less than 1/3 to completely pay off all my student loans. I have a few in various bitcoin-based ventures, and I run a market making bot with a few. At the moment, I am back in school getting a masters in CS, including a teaching position, so I don't need my bitcoins to fund my lifestyle. Before I was in school, I did freelance programming, including some jobs that paid bitcoin. I will likely go back to that when I am done, and hopefully I can work primarily for BTC. |
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So.... up, down, or sideways Brilliant deduction! |
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BEARISH IN THE MOST EXTREME WAY!
I think all the people who think bitcoins are going to revolutionize the world are the ones on drugs. Its a boiler room scam that several exchanges are making a boatload of money off of. Any recourse if anything goes wrong? NO! Have fun!
.... So why are you here? I think I just like to be a dick. I want to burst every bulls bubble on here. We'll you'd have to see price fall below 0 to put me at a loss . How's that work? Free electric and all mined coins? If so, your hardware lifespan is reduced, for a very tiny loss at $0 :p I mined my btc with GPUs bought specifically for bitcoin in early 2010. I have since sold enough bitcoin to cover the hardware and electrical costs, plus I have sold the GPUs as well for about 50% of what I paid. Even if every bitcoin I have is worthless, I have taken more USD out than I put in. |
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BEARISH IN THE MOST EXTREME WAY!
I think all the people who think bitcoins are going to revolutionize the world are the ones on drugs. Its a boiler room scam that several exchanges are making a boatload of money off of. Any recourse if anything goes wrong? NO! Have fun!
.... So why are you here? I think I just like to be a dick. I want to burst every bulls bubble on here. We'll you'd have to see price fall below 0 to put me at a loss . |
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