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2541  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: October 01, 2014, 11:03:03 AM
losing faith here.   Tongue

october 2014: sub 400



Couldn't hodl.
2542  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin with mirrors, lights, telescopes (and smoke signals?) on: October 01, 2014, 11:01:00 AM
I would like to see a Bitcoin miner powered by sharks they would network with laser beams.  Grin
2543  Other / Off-topic / Re: Scientific proof that God exists? on: October 01, 2014, 10:56:33 AM
Quote from: Kurt Gödel
The idea that everything in the world has a meaning [reason] is an exact analogue of the principle that everything has a cause, on which rests all of science.
Huh?

What happens when you assume that science is not founded upon the principle that everything has a cause?
What happens if all the science you thought was true turns out to be false? Does that mean your cause is false? Your question is a philosophical one, not a scientific one. Science doesn't need causes from the past, it only wants to make predictions about the future. Sometimes our science relies on best guesses.
So the scientist does not want to "go there" and assume a cause?

Objective and subjective things he thus ascertains to be alike inscrutable in their substance and genesis.

He learns at once the greatness and the littleness of the human intellect — its power in dealing with all that comes within the range of experience, its impotence in dealing with all that transcends experience. He, more than any other (except maybe Socrates), truly knows that in its ultimate nature nothing can be known.

Even the fact of your existence would now be subject to doubt.
Unavoidable as is this belief, it is yet a belief admitting of no justification by reason: nay, indeed, it is a belief which reason, when pressed for a distinct answer, rejects.

Ultimate religious ideas and ultimate scientific ideas, alike turn out to be merely symbols of the actual, not cognitions of it.

I like the word 'symbol' better than 'guess'; presumably, there can be knowledge in the context of semiotics; a guess excludes knowledge. I have quoted Spencer above, and below is Pascal:

"What a Chimera is man! What a novelty, a monster, a chaos, a contradiction, a prodigy! Judge of all things, an imbecile worm; depository of truth, and sewer of error and doubt; the glory and refuse of the universe. Who shall unravel this confusion?"

"It is impossible that our rational part should be other than spiritual; and if any one maintain that we are simply corporeal, this would far more exclude us from the knowledge of things, there being nothing so inconceivable as to say that matter knows itself. It is impossible to imagine how it should know itself."
I slept through most of my philosophy class lectures. More technology has been created in the last 100 years than when those academics looked down upon the unwashed masses. At least religion has an appetite for smiting which requires technological advancement of weaponry. Philosophy rarely calls anyone to action.
2544  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why consumers are not adopting BTC on: October 01, 2014, 10:44:28 AM

Businesses that require expensive licenses, fees, and insurances in the name of public interest. Many industries have gone underground into black markets. Living in SEA, I see many industries that cannot exist in the USA anymore though they have consumer value.

Care to name those industries?
Let's start with chemical manufacturing. You can be making a product that has good science behind it and a good customer base. Suddenly a lobbyist convinces legislators that claim one of the crucial ingredients may be carcinogenic. It then requires you to ship it as hazmat. Then you find out that some Fortune 100 company is now selling a similar product at Walmart and they don't have to pay large hazmat fees because they use common carriers rather than parcel services. The change in the law was not based in any good science, it was graft. That's just one agency. Then the EPA wants to put their nose into your business and some nobody bureaucrat decides that you are creating toxic waste. You offer to show them your process, but they're not interested. Instead they snoop around your land until they find some evidence of some chemical that may or may not have had anything to do with your business. Now you have an expensive lawsuit on your hands because some prosecutor wants to get promoted as a champion of the environment for political gain.

tl;dr America is toxic for business because China.
2545  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why consumers are not adopting BTC on: October 01, 2014, 10:27:40 AM

People have been regulated out of businesses that built this civilization.

BTW

As off topic as it is ,this statement really do pique my interest.What are those businesses  you speak of?
Businesses that require expensive licenses, fees, and insurances in the name of public interest. Many industries have gone underground into black markets. Living in SEA, I see many industries that cannot exist in the USA anymore though they have consumer value. Hell, they are even shutting down children's lemonade stands in the land of the free and home of the brave.
2546  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: October 01, 2014, 10:07:20 AM
Just noticed we passed the 13333337 BTC mined milestone.
2547  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / 13333337 BTC mined so far. on: October 01, 2014, 10:06:13 AM
Just think it's a cool milestone.
2548  Other / Off-topic / Re: Scientific proof that God exists? on: October 01, 2014, 09:53:08 AM
Quote from: Kurt Gödel
The idea that everything in the world has a meaning [reason] is an exact analogue of the principle that everything has a cause, on which rests all of science.
Huh?

What happens when you assume that science is not founded upon the principle that everything has a cause?
What happens if all the science you thought was true turns out to be false? Does that mean your cause is false? Your question is a philosophical one, not a scientific one. Science doesn't need causes from the past, it only wants to make predictions about the future. Sometimes our science relies on best guesses.
2549  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why consumers are not adopting BTC on: October 01, 2014, 09:46:02 AM

You are asking a loaded question.I'll answer none of the above



Those are questions NEEDED answering if you want to convince general consumers to accept bitcoin.
If you can't/ won't answer  them, then suit yourself.If matters really are simple , then bitcoin would've gone mainstream by now.


Bitcoin opens up entire new consumer markets that don't currently exist or at least haven't for a century.

Good to know , care to elaborate on those ? How much of this new market affects the general consumer?
People have been regulated out of businesses that built this civilization. Large corporations lobby legislators to bar competition in almost every industry.  Bitcoin was not created to be a competitor for existing systems, it was created to make them obsolete. So you see, your question bears little relevance for Bitcoin users. If existing institutions want to survive the extinction event that Bitcoin will cause, then they will adapt to using it before their customers abandon them. I don't know what timetable you are comfortable with, but Bitcoin is here to stay long after you or I will have such conversations. Any corporation that wants to exist for the great-grandchildren to inherit will want to be part of the Bitcoin economy. But that's the funny thing about revolutions, they often take people by surprise and happen quite suddenly.
2550  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why consumers are not adopting BTC on: October 01, 2014, 09:14:55 AM
Why consumers are not adopting BTC? Why is the middle class gone? Same answer: ignorance and apathy. The West embraced willful ignorance and got fat.
Let me repost my thoughts:

Currently there is no tangible benefit  for retail consumers to adopt bitcoin. Not cost benefit(bitcoin isn't really cheaper), time saving( transaction confirmation ) nor is it hassle free( still not quite user friendly).What problem exactly  does bitcoin solves for the brick and mortar retail consumer?


Should some (if not all) of those issues be resolved,then consumers might start to warm up to bitcoin.
You are asking a loaded question. I'll answer none of the above. Bitcoin opens up entire new consumer markets that don't currently exist or at least haven't for a century.
2551  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: What is the legal definition of Bitcoin? on: October 01, 2014, 09:12:01 AM
Laws are meant to control behavior, not math. There are already laws that cover how Bitcoin is used, they just have to figure out which ones they are. Their choice of regulation will determine their involvement in the new economy.
2552  Other / Off-topic / Re: Scientific proof that God exists? on: October 01, 2014, 09:07:23 AM
I would prefer you explain the true meaning of sarcasm and attempt to understand that for yourself.

Honesty is the best policy, closely linked to the golden rule.
There are humorists that make a great deal of money and are very popular for their sarcasm. Perhaps you shouldn't be so sensitive about an obvious play at physical comedy.
2553  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why consumers are not adopting BTC on: October 01, 2014, 08:58:30 AM
Why consumers are not adopting BTC? Why is the middle class gone? Same answer: ignorance and apathy. The West embraced willful ignorance and got fat.
2554  Economy / Speculation / Re: *that* chart, debunked. aka "Hello, McFly?" on: October 01, 2014, 08:53:00 AM
Marty McFailllling's DeLorean broke down in 2011.
2555  Other / Off-topic / Re: Scientific proof that God exists? on: October 01, 2014, 08:44:41 AM
Science and maths is only possible because of the patterns and order in the universe. After all, what is science and maths in it's purest form? Is it not simply a record of immutable and repeatable patterns in nature. In reality (not on a screen that can be manipulated) 2 + 2 will ALWAYS = 4. It's a simple repeatable fact of how reality works.

The intelligence built into this universe is a wonder in itself.


Sarcasm... What is the meaning behind that?

Quote from: Kurt Gödel
What I call the theological worldview is the idea that the world and everything in it has meaning and reason, and in particular a good and indubitable meaning.
It follows immediately that our worldly existence, since it has in itself at most a very dubious meaning, can only be means to the end of another existence.
The idea that everything in the world has a meaning [reason] is an exact analogue of the principle that everything has a cause, on which rests all of science.
I was just pointing out the wonder of God's glory. Would you prefer a picture of an ebola victim?
2556  Economy / Speculation / Re: Investor Cycles of Emotion, Ignorance on: October 01, 2014, 08:43:08 AM
Hindsight is 2020. I am always amused by the conceit people hold by playing Monday Morning Quarterback.

Your accusation is unfounded. Torque's speculation may only be intuitive in hindsight, but the pattern itself is recurrent and consistent through the last three bubble events. The models of consolidation (flag, pennant, etc) are also very predictive of the contours of these large price movements.

The prediction that the $365 bottom will hold seems to have been validated by earlier price action, too.
Are you making that up? You pulled my remark out of context. I was not responding to  that declaration. I was responding to your claim that there is a "common-sense" cycle. If its common-sense, then why aren't you a billionaire?
2557  Other / Off-topic / Re: Scientific proof that God exists? on: October 01, 2014, 08:36:21 AM
Science and maths is only possible because of the patterns and order in the universe. After all, what is science and maths in it's purest form? Is it not simply a record of immutable and repeatable patterns in nature. In reality (not on a screen that can be manipulated) 2 + 2 will ALWAYS = 4. It's a simple repeatable fact of how reality works.

The intelligence built into this universe is a wonder in itself.
2558  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: October 01, 2014, 08:04:39 AM
It's getting about time for a Black Swan event. Bitcoin seems to have more than its fair share of those.
2559  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: October 01, 2014, 05:11:14 AM
Quote
Question:   this weeks high will be:
380   - 62 (29%)
390   - 31 (14.5%)
400   - 18 (8.4%)
410   - 23 (10.7%)
420   - 25 (11.7%)
>450   - 55 (25.7%)
Total Voters: 214
So far the largest group is wrong.
2560  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin will turn bull now. What's your Bitcoin career? on: October 01, 2014, 04:23:30 AM
your price prediction by end of 2014?


It is very hard to predict bitcoin 3 months ahead because a lot of things can happend that may change my perspective in that time. Things we don't know yet.

I'd say anything between $500-$900 if the momentum stays and nothing particularly bad happends.
I don't think something like this is going to happen. Today's price is 1BTC= $388.
I miss the days of daily 30% fluctuations. In three days it could go up easily that much. After all let's face it, a few billion isn't much money these days in the greater scheme of things.
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