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Interesting - First wall I see is around 2k at $130...
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I wasn't aware of that. But, due to the design of the network, you can't do naked shorting I would think. So, shorting would mean, borrowing actual shares from someones account and then selling them and promising to buy them back at a later date. I would also think that you would have to cover the sell in cash and would be subject to margin calls as well. I don't know if shorting BTC nor derivatives, could really ever "work" at quite the same was as they do in the stock market. For one, most people don't keep their coins in the exchanges - right there you can't borrow them for sale.
It works on Bitfinex because there's a pool of USD and BTC that's lent on a P2P system in exchange for interest. USD interest is very high and BTC interest is very low. I guess some investors would do that, but die hard BTC'ers would NEVER EVER allow their coins to be used for such purposes. In the grand scheme of things it is probably quite small at that site and I can only hope it stays that way. Again, due to the nature of the network, you are not going to see naked shorts. And, due to most keeping larger amounts of coins offline, you just won't get the short volume needed to manipulate. |
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This entire line of conversation is a stark reminder that it does not matter what currency dominates the world. At the end of the day, rich people still will look down on poor people so nothing will ever change in that capacity. Rich people will be dorkier than they are today, but just as hateful and oppressive as rich people have ever been. Really sad and depressing way to start the morning.  +1 Their manipulation of the BTC market is annoying too. That is on topic, after all isn't this the wall movement tracker thread? It's their walls that are messing everything up. If more money does come into BTC then even they won't be able to afford to do that any more, which will let BTC reflect its true value and can only be a good thing. That is of course until the scumbag banks join in with even bigger walls of course. BTC is just an intermediate step to something much greater. In the short term we have to get the criminals out of politics and government (which means a total revamp of our system). Regarding the walls - just don't look at them. Buy and sell when you need to. Big players might see those walls but really, what do they do outside of psychologically? Thus far we don't have any shorting of BTC, and that is a good thing. We need to protect ourselves from the bankers. They all have the same thing on their minds, war and...  there is quite some shorting possible on www.bitfinex.comI wasn't aware of that. But, due to the design of the network, you can't do naked shorting I would think. So, shorting would mean, borrowing actual shares from someones account and then selling them and promising to buy them back at a later date. I would also think that you would have to cover the sell in cash and would be subject to margin calls as well. I don't know if shorting BTC nor derivatives, could really ever "work" at quite the same was as they do in the stock market. For one, most people don't keep their coins in the exchanges - right there you can't borrow them for sale. |
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This entire line of conversation is a stark reminder that it does not matter what currency dominates the world. At the end of the day, rich people still will look down on poor people so nothing will ever change in that capacity. Rich people will be dorkier than they are today, but just as hateful and oppressive as rich people have ever been. Really sad and depressing way to start the morning. +1 Their manipulation of the BTC market is annoying too. That is on topic, after all isn't this the wall movement tracker thread? It's their walls that are messing everything up. If more money does come into BTC then even they won't be able to afford to do that any more, which will let BTC reflect its true value and can only be a good thing. That is of course until the scumbag banks join in with even bigger walls of course. BTC is just an intermediate step to something much greater. In the short term we have to get the criminals out of politics and government (which means a total revamp of our system). Regarding the walls - just don't look at them. Buy and sell when you need to. Big players might see those walls but really, what do they do outside of psychologically? Thus far we don't have any shorting of BTC, and that is a good thing. We need to protect ourselves from the bankers. They all have the same thing on their minds, war and... |
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The idea is great, but 5%?  ? That is more than credit card companies and paypal, together! Isn't a part of the point of Bitcoin to rid us of unnecessary fees? |
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120$ HELLO AGAIN  Are you the reincarnation of coinseeker?  FUDer |
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Coinseeker, Coinseeker?  |
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How do you tell if a sudden rise is a single large buy or a coincidence of smaller buys all being executed consecutively?
The 10k bidwall turned into 3k and we had like a 7k buy. It was instantaneous, so... WHAT? There was a 7k buy that went through? And then they pulled the rest? Man, this can just explode up through $200 quicker than we can understand. |
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 There's a correction coming. Doubt we'll break through 120.
CoinseekerServing factless FUD-burgers since April 28, 2013!We'll see shortly won't we.   +1 No one misses that FUD |
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The Market Depth is jumping up nice again on MtGox. Yesterday was a great day in that respect and the jump to today is likewise good.
Yes, big if regarding manipulation, but just to put the numbers out there.
Bids at $70 are up another 15k to 145k. Highest this month. Also, buy side at $5 and $15 are climbing up.
Asks at $120 are down another 12k to 120k. Lowest this month.
100k sells are at $220. Highest level since end of April.
50k and 100k buy levels are highest in a month as well.
Manipulation to explode up or a real sign?
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I know this is all over the place, but try to digest this regarding the BTC price: http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2013/05/16/peter-thiel-gets-the-bitcoin-bug/#more-5747BitPay claimed 1,900 new merchants signed up in April and it continues to sign up over 100 new customers every day. It is currently processing around $5m of Bitcoin transactions per month. The scary part to consider is that first big company that takes on BTC. And then, after that, many other larger company will probably feel forced to go along, especially if there is a flow of new funds to supporters of these companies. |
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Correct me, if I'm wrong, because I'm not really sure about the money supply definitions, but here are some numbers about that 300k prediction. The current M1 money supply of USD, which, as far as I understood, is all the money which is not money out of thin air, is around 2.500 billion USD. We have around 11 million BTC. Our goal 300.000 USD/BTC would result in a market capitalization of 3.300 billion USD. ... ...  Who is just talking about America? Interesting thing I just heard. The actual inflation rate is more like 9.5% (taken from this economist - http://www.theaureport.com/pub/htdocs/expert.html?id=2000So, just like the unemployment rate (which if we used 1980 stats would be closer to 23.5%) the inflation rate is really distorted. |
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Buy Bitcoin while you still can. The price is being be held stable by big money for the Silicon Valley conference. The price will soon explode upwards.
I just looked at the market depth over at GOX. My guess is that something is up. The sell side is really starting to dip (146k), lowest I've recorded since end of April. Bids at $70 are the 2nd highest I've seen and the asks at $300 are the lowest since the start of the month. The sell side volume at higher prices is creeping up. Hmmmm |
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rpietila - Hey brother, you keep on keeping on. Take care of yourself, get some rest and don't forget this is about change. Don't let the $$$ part stress you out. Our sites are bigger that that.
Heal up brotherman and enjoy this dream we call life,
It's about Sharing
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Seems the love of money does trump hardcore principles after all. Hmmm....imagine that.
I don't think anyone seriously ever believed that, did they? Anyway, I went through the poker stuff years ago and the adult biz before that. The government rattles it's sabers and takes down a few big players and then moves on to something else. They will never stop people from doing the things they want to do, they just make it require a little more creativity, e.g. US residents are still playing online poker. That said, knowing what a hard on the Feds have for online gambling, I can't believe evoorhees has been so public about his ownership of that site. Seems reckless. All of this is interesting for those of us trading, but I don't think it has anything to do with the success of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is not poker. Poker does not require mass adoption. Bitcoin is a currency commodity and thus requires mass adoption to be successful and actually become a real currency. This is going to be the easiest takedown in the history of the USG. Once Bitcoin is carved in the minds of Americans as illegal, risky, funding of terrorism, etc...the brand is dead. The same business' that may currently be considering adoption will flee forever. And don't let a real terror organization get linked to Bitcoin. It will be unpatriotic to support Bitcoin, in the minds of Americans. Money is mass adopted already. There is a HUGE need for quicker and cheaper transactions. There is a huge need for a cheaper paypal and a way of sending money Western Union style but easier and cheaper. There are so many opportunities. You see, we don't even need mass adoption to be successful. We need less than 1% adoption. We are at a fraction of a percentage as is and the price is already over $100 a share. That is not a coincidence. It is not a coincidence that some big VC's are saying BTC is HUGE. We can see, you can only fear... Further, this isn't about America. There is the rest of the world. It would be easier to go at it with America, but certainly we don't have to. Where do you get off on the bull statements time and time again you manipulator you? Most money laundering and drug trades occur in dollars, not bitcoins. The money laundering occurs via big big banks as it is in the billions of dollars. Bitcoin is not in that arena. People can see you as a phony because you are so one sided and non stop at that. But that is ok, everyone needs help at times. There is a reason we are already quite successful, you might want to spend some of your time there as well and not make your one sided attacks so obvious. The truth about VC's is most of them are morons. They throw other peoples money around and just hope something sticks. So, I wouldn't put a lot of stock into the pocket change that's come in so far. If they really thought it was "HUGE", you'd see $100 million to $1 Billion plus coming in. We're no where near those numbers as VC's are accountable to their investors so it actually speaks to their reluctance more than their bullishness. Maybe this is just the arrogant American in me but, without America, Bitcoin is little more than frequent flyer miles. We set the trends, we say what's hot and what's not. Russia? When's the last time anything "cool" ever came out of Russia besides snow? We don't need Bitcoin, Bitcoin needs us and with Ripple, it's going to all be possible. VC's are often the creme of the crop when it comes to Capitalism. Now, I'm not pro capitalism, at least not in its current rendition, but I don't look a gift horse in the mouth. They are however careful with their money. I was there in the early days of the internet and I saw the power early on. I see THE SAME SORT OF DISTURBANCE regarding power with bitcoin (and cryptocurrencies). It isn't about the money, it is about the change. Look, I don't see BTC being out of America any time soon. It serves a function, clearly. All I said was it probably goes forward with or without America, especially since many countries (e.g. China) are a bit too heavily vested in dollars. Read into that one. No, we do need BTC. That much is clear. Visa, Mastercard, American Express, Pay Pal, Western Union - they are all threatened (in part) by BTC. They are not threatened in the loaning aspect of their businesses (nor are banks imo, at least not yet). But to be able to transmit money for essentially free, is HUGE. Again, the way you overlook these things is really disturbing. You see nothing good. Just bad. Just look at your posts here. You are one depressing individual - which I'm sure is your intent. But love will save ya.... Ripple. LOL - eheeheh, good one. |
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Think about something. What does ignoring coinseeker do?
Echo chambers are bad, but there's a difference between legitimate argument and FUD. Coinseeker is fast becoming Elmer FUD. I agree, it is getting out of hand. I'm all for free speech when it is driven by intelligence. But how can one keep up the nothing but negative attacks without getting even a warning? The board would be a better place with him and those like him off it. At least keep it on topic, which it is getting away from. |
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Seems the love of money does trump hardcore principles after all. Hmmm....imagine that.
I don't think anyone seriously ever believed that, did they? Anyway, I went through the poker stuff years ago and the adult biz before that. The government rattles it's sabers and takes down a few big players and then moves on to something else. They will never stop people from doing the things they want to do, they just make it require a little more creativity, e.g. US residents are still playing online poker. That said, knowing what a hard on the Feds have for online gambling, I can't believe evoorhees has been so public about his ownership of that site. Seems reckless. All of this is interesting for those of us trading, but I don't think it has anything to do with the success of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is not poker. Poker does not require mass adoption. Bitcoin is a currency commodity and thus requires mass adoption to be successful and actually become a real currency. This is going to be the easiest takedown in the history of the USG. Once Bitcoin is carved in the minds of Americans as illegal, risky, funding of terrorism, etc...the brand is dead. The same business' that may currently be considering adoption will flee forever. And don't let a real terror organization get linked to Bitcoin. It will be unpatriotic to support Bitcoin, in the minds of Americans. Money is mass adopted already. There is a HUGE need for quicker and cheaper transactions. There is a huge need for a cheaper paypal and a way of sending money Western Union style but easier and cheaper. There are so many opportunities. You see, we don't even need mass adoption to be successful. We need less than 1% adoption. We are at a fraction of a percentage as is and the price is already over $100 a share. That is not a coincidence. It is not a coincidence that some big VC's are saying BTC is HUGE. We can see, you can only fear... Further, this isn't about America. There is the rest of the world. It would be easier to go at it with America, but certainly we don't have to. Where do you get off on the bull statements time and time again you manipulator you? Most money laundering and drug trades occur in dollars, not bitcoins. The money laundering occurs via big big banks as it is in the billions of dollars. Bitcoin is not in that arena. People can see you as a phony because you are so one sided and non stop at that. But that is ok, everyone needs help at times. There is a reason we are already quite successful, you might want to spend some of your time there as well and not make your one sided attacks so obvious. |
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Anyway, give this time. The AOL CD's (BTC wallets and services) are just getting started. Regardless of how well BTC does, we are more than likely going to see some very interesting innovations in the next 6 - 12 months. I mean, I am no longer an IT expert, many years removed but I was able to figure out how use most of the BTC tools and such.
Sorry, AOL CD? Remember in the early days of the internet how those damn AOL cd's were all over the place? Many of us IT "geeks" hated them and thought it was a waste. Who needed that to connect? Just put your information in manually and then connect to the internet. I remember laughing that AOL stock was $5, man that wasn't worth it. Anyway, I called Amazon, Ebay and a host of other internet companies correctly, but I missed the one right in front of my nose due to my tech conditioning. Well now, the wallets and much of the BTC technology is a bit non user friendly - quite rough around the edges for non computer people. The analogy here is that we are just getting started and perhaps some of the die hard BTC people don't see how we need "AOL CD" like things to make this journey easier for us. That said, we are quite close to that. IT is not rocket science to make better wallets (e.g. - easily scan and import your private key and BTC's, not have to download the whole 7Gb of data with the standard client, etc.) |
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Comply or die.
I tend to agree with you for once. |
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A more fair way to go about things, which should be done by sensible humans would be to say: Hey, you've got a business running, are you aware of the new requirements for licensing ? You have 6 months to comply with the licensing requirements and get a license, or you will have to close up shop.
Actually you do have 6 months from when you start operating as a money transmitter to register as such with FinCEN. The particular piece of legislation they're alleged to not have complied with doesn't just pertain to FinCEN registration, though, it also applies to the requirement to register as a MSB in individual states - which means that further investigation could find more violations. It's going to be hard for Mark to argue he had no idea that MtGox was acting as a money transmitter when there are posts on here made by Mark last year talking about MtGox's intention to register as such in the US and how it would be a state by state process as the exact requirements varied from one state to another. When Dwolla sends funds from a customer account to MtGox at the customer's request, it's without question acting as a money transmitter. It's absurd to then claim that MtGox is not transmitting money when it transfers customer funds to the customer's Dwolla account at the customer's request. It will be interesting to see whether MtGox is now exposed to other financial services regulations violations. If it was operating as a money transmitter within the US, then what obligations did it have to file reports on suspicious transactions, threshold transactions, etc with FinCEN? PayPal tried to argue for years that they weren't a money service business and they lost despite having the enormous financial resources of eBay at their disposal. Are all banks registered as money transmitters? It seems to me that a money transmitter should be transmitting money between _different_ people. MtGox does this. It transmits the BTC buyer's money to the seller (as PayPal does) - MtGox itself is not a party to the transaction. It's worth remembering that there could actually be more user funds in the seized Wells Fargo account than in the seized Dwolla account. MtGox has tended to limit the amount being transferred to Dwolla at any one time just in case Dwolla itself froze their account or reversed transactions. Presumably, the funds which were "queued" awaiting transfer to Dwolla are in the seized Wells Fargo account. It's a pity the media's probably not going to be able to snoop and find out the amounts which have been seized. Really well said and thanks for the information. This is going to be a potential thorn in the side of MtGox, but it should not be the end. But hopefully what it does is get their customers going to other exchanges (to aid in decentralizing our decentralized technology!) and cause other entrepreneurs to open up more exchanges. What we shouldn't lose sight of here is that if we play by the rules (aka regulations) we should be fine. If they wanted to attack BTC openly, that ship has mostly sailed. I liken this to other areas where the government tried to overly enforce regulations (post internet) and was just unable to keep up with the expansion of the field in question. I'm not saying they won't be able to regulate, as I think they will. But in a sense, what has just happened is like the DDOS attacks - they only made us stronger. Other exchanges now have to get everything in order. We are truly growing quickly and will experience growing pains, all the while becoming stronger. Remember, we are a Black Swan and anti-fragile technology (per my sig). This doesn't mean we will succeed, but we have Universe on our side. |
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