Bitfinex (Bitstamp) now @ $103.50 and people are still leveraged long up to their ears. Good luck unloading.  Does what your getting at rhyme with Brash but sort of have the opposite outcome? |
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Thanks for the info Hlynur. I'll sleep better. Are you in Germany? (I am)
Anyone notice those trades that just went through? A bit of volume, not a ton, under 1000, but dropped things a bit.
I really wonder when (and if) the selling will begin.
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I agree with you that this is far fetched to call this a Cup and Handle formation, but there might be a similar end result. Another note, the Cup and Handle patterns can be shorter than seven weeks, but the longer term ones are usually more reliable.
Yeah, I'm not saying we won't go up. But, the idea behind the Cup and Handle is based on the buildup of pressure (You can almost visualize it). So, I would imagine that smaller Cup and Handles might work, but since they are not really mentioned, I think the effect would be much much less pronounced. It is sort of like a "half pipe" for stocks. |
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Biggest disparity I have yet seen.
Bitstamp - $105.75
MtGox - $112.20
$6.45 difference, quite telling considering todays news.
I'm a former gox user and now a bitstamp user. To be honest- I trade on Bitstamp because I'm not interested in the drama at Gox and I'm not interested in squeezing every last satoshi of profit out of every price swing. I have a feeling a large number of Bitstamp users feel the same. We will buy and sell when the price suits our interests, but the low volume is just fine. While Gox is $6 above stamp, it feels ephemeral- I'm more convinced it's someone manipulating the market into people raising their buy orders, just to dump on them big time. It's like a cycle. I'm more then happy to sit at $6 below in exchange for a calmer market. I was really addressing the "manipulation" of Gox (e.g. - Todays wire news) and nothing against Bitstamp. I use them.  What do you feel about Bitstamp using a Slovenian Bank and the recent problems there? I think they got cash from a sale and we are ok for a few months at least, if not longer. what sale? The sale of Mercator Poslovni Sistem d.d. to Croatia’s Agrokor d.d. will inject needed cash into Slovenian banks, helping stabilize the country’s financial system as it scrambles to avert a bailout, the sellers said. “A successful sale of Mercator would increase capital inflow to its shareholders, including the financial institutions that need additional capital,” a sellers group said by e-mail on June 14 through Ljubljana-based PR firm Futura. “This would help stabilize Slovenia’s banking system in accordance with European Union demands.” Slovenia’s two biggest banks, Nova Ljubljanska Banka d.d. and Nova Kreditna Banka Maribor d.d., are among shareholders that on June 14 sold a 53 percent stake in the Balkans’ largest retailer to Zagreb-based Agrokor for 240 million euros ($320 million). Slovenia is working to avoid becoming the six euro-area country to require international aid with a 900 million-euro capital increase to banks as the European Commission warns more cash may be needed. (It goes on...) |
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Biggest disparity I have yet seen.
Bitstamp - $105.75
MtGox - $112.20
$6.45 difference, quite telling considering todays news.
I'm a former gox user and now a bitstamp user. To be honest- I trade on Bitstamp because I'm not interested in the drama at Gox and I'm not interested in squeezing every last satoshi of profit out of every price swing. I have a feeling a large number of Bitstamp users feel the same. We will buy and sell when the price suits our interests, but the low volume is just fine. While Gox is $6 above stamp, it feels ephemeral- I'm more convinced it's someone manipulating the market into people raising their buy orders, just to dump on them big time. It's like a cycle. I'm more then happy to sit at $6 below in exchange for a calmer market. I was really addressing the "manipulation" of Gox (e.g. - Todays wire news) and nothing against Bitstamp. I use them. What do you feel about Bitstamp using a Slovenian Bank and the recent problems there? I think they got cash from a sale and we are ok for a few months at least, if not longer. |
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their no question walls are used to manipulate people into buying or selling.
depending the the markets mood, a wall can push or pull the price toward or away from it.
Definitely. I think the way it's changing is more indicative than how it actually is. Shallow depth can mean to take less notice of price changes too. I think it might be possible to factor out some of the orders which are likely to be fake but that's more work than I can devote right now. But, low volume on the wall is pretty true imo. Easy to pull orders of course, but not to lie about no interest. I know it is "only" Bitstamp, but it won't take many sells to drop the price. I really wonder if that happened on Bitstamp how Gox would react.  |
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Biggest disparity I have yet seen.
Bitstamp - $105.75
MtGox - $112.20
$6.45 difference, quite telling considering todays news.
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I think you mentioned this in the wall thread. And I'm not saying we don't go up, but this is not a cup and handle. Please note: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/cupandhandle.aspDefinition of 'Cup and Handle' A pattern on bar charts resembling a cup with a handle. The cup is in the shape of a "U" and the handle has a slight downward drift. The right-hand side of the pattern has low trading volume. It can be as short as seven weeks and as long as 65 weeks. As the stock comes up to test the old highs, the stock will incur selling pressure by the people who bought at or near the old high. This selling pressure will make the stock price trade sideways with a tendency towards a downtrend for four days to four weeks... then it takes off. Below is an example of a cup and handle chart pattern:  Investopedia explains 'Cup and Handle' A couple points on trying to detect cup and handles: Length - Generally, cups with longer and more "U" shaped bottoms, the stronger the signal. Avoid cups with a sharp "V" bottoms. Depth - Ideally, the cup should not be too deep. Also, avoid handles which are too deep since the handles should form in the top half of the cup pattern. Volume - Volume should dry up on the decline and remain lower than average in the base of the bowl. It should then increase when the stock finally starts to make its move back up to test the old high. Retest (of old high) - doesn't have touch or come within a few ticks of old high. However, the further the top of the handle is away from the highs, the more significant the breakout needs to be. |
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Back to "The Wall" - I'm curious what some of you more experienced traders think about the value of market depth. For example, say what chart buddy is posting.
Those of you that rely on market depth, how much do you use it, relative to TA? I ask because Market Depth can be and clearly is at times, very manipulated. Yes, we are in the wall
thread, but I am really starting to wonder how much attention to give what chart buddy is posting relative to just looking at the charts. Perhaps I just need to weigh one relative to the
other a bit better. Even with TA, BTC is a different animal...
IAS
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A parabolic move is totally normal in finance! When it's over, just like all the other parabolic moves in financial history, it will jusst plateau and then keep going up!!! Bears are stuuupid trolls who don't know anything!11  (Seriously, it was fun calling the top on this last bitcoin bubble within 3 days of the peak, but the backlash was huge...) This is not your typical finance though; this is really and truly revolution, on a bigger scale than has ever been comprehended. The dot-com bubble crashed and was based on Internet. If the whole Internet wasn't strong enough to prevent any bubble crash, how something smaller like Bitcoin is supposed to do that?!?! I'm a short term to mid term bear with BTC, but definitely a long term Bull. I can see us exploding up however as we are talking about something that has ruled the world since the times of Kings and Queens - MONEY. We are now talking about a decentralized money that is secure. I can imagine considering the state of the world that anything is possible short term. Currencies are being devalued, wars are likely to start (I prey not though), etc. The uncertainty, the manipulation of the gold/silver price, the beauty that is BTC, etc. - is going to probably attract an avalanche of sellers. For comparisons sake, we are in the early early stages of the internet. We are just waiting for our killer app so to speak. Even without it, we are so small and the internet was so large (IPO companies), so what is the choice regarding alternative Money? There really isn't any outside of BTC and the other cryptocurrencies. |
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Well if the theory of the gox price rising because of an exodus of btc in order to cash-out elsewhere has any merit then I guess people are using localbitcoins or some other service with a gox-linked price (or they're not in a hurry to convert back to USD) because it's certainly not driving the price down at bitstamp or elsewhere at the moment. The proximity-to-gox is certainly a bigger percentage than average but there is no correlating down as of yet to gox's up.  buy on bitstamp .. dump on gox ahh i love this game Well, think if you are absolutely sure that the Gox news is no worry. Add to that that you have lots of money. If you can buy cheaper coins on other exchanges and then sell them on gox it is easy money. I think some of that must be happening, unless other exchanges like Bitstamp just sort of follow the Gox price (which is true to a point.) |
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I wish that wall at 115 would get removed.
People are willing to buy, the price wants to go up. Why sell at 115.
That is a good question. I think it honestly means that people want to cash out - or - it is fake (which I doubt). Gox is not representative of BTC at the moment due to the 2 week "ban" on getting your money out. It is like an artificial buy signal was imposed. Those coins that are moved to bitstamp might just be being sold at the Gox price. Not sure but something weird has been happening for a while now. |
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The huge decline in asks.. were they sold or taken off the book?
No, not sold - well, some of them YES, but obviously not so many. I think they were not only taken off the book, a lot of it may have left Gox for good... This kind of news (International wires to USA stop for 2 weeks) scares a lot a certain kind of people (pussies?), and they panic and just take their coins off Gox. Same thing happened when the dwolla thing. I have to say these are very profitable moments, in the sense that its very easy to predict what panickers will do. I remember when we had the blockchain fork, oh gosh I bought so many coins during that crash... Really, this kind of news and the panickers reaction are a Bitcoin trader best friends What do you think the result is going to be? It is interesting to see at a time like this, Bitstamp is not following things... Almost like a divergence that will need to be corrected on Gox, but we are not following rules. |
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FWIW Mtux says Mizuho Bank's automated wire transfer API is broken right now. Wires can only be sent out manually by Mizuho. Gox is opening accounts at other banks, which should drastically improve USD withdrawal times and bypass the technical problems at Mizuho. This process should take around 2 weeks.
Lets examine this a little. An API which has been working perfectly for a bank suddenly stops working and there is no solution to the problem apart from opening new bank accounts ? Banks don't just go in and break their systems, if there was a software issue with their API they would roll back any recent changes and make it work again. This is an excuse. Knowing how Asian businesses operate I would say it's a 'face saving' excuse. I think I can say that this is also a lie - someone at the bank is lying to mtux if this is what was said. [23:08] <MagicalTux> we broke their system due to the volume
[23:08] <ineededausername> the bank's system?
[23:08] <ineededausername> what do you mean broke?
[23:08] <MagicalTux> yep
[23:08] <MagicalTux> it's broken
[23:08] <ineededausername> a technical problem?
[23:08] <MagicalTux> yep
[23:09] <MagicalTux> they're working on fixing this, and we're opening new bank accounts in other banks as I speak to resume transfers (it takes 2 weeks)
if anyone wants to interpret it any differently. There is now a $6 price difference on Bitstamp and Gox. Something is up... (outside of the price) |
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I prefer not to even say I am a "believer", there is something called first hand experience, knowing and then of course just good old observation. Isn't that just anecdotal evidence, which is notoriously unscientific? Scientific? Like the premise that we originated from a big bang? Hey, the scientific method is great. But it also sets the rules on what is possible and what is impossible. In a sense, science sets rules and with those rules it excludes things that don't fit its model. The thing is, science, as great as it is, is still growing. So, until science discovers more, it is dependent on the variables it sets up to say what is possible and impossible. In a real world example, I would look into certain types of experiences that humans have that are termed supernatural (or excluded in other ways.) Well, there needs to be instruments to measure some of these subtle energies employed in the investigation. I do believe that is starting, but we are a long ways off as there is something at stake regarding the current "system". The miraculous, which many of us have experienced, is generally not reproducible. Guess that means miracles don't happen (according to science). There are many many flaws in science in these ways. It is valuable but at the same time it is being handcuffed. most "miracles" are purely psychological disorders. How can you say? How do you study things that are not reproducible? You are creating a rigid reality then. Firsthand experience seems to be the only way to know, but you can't prove it (just like love). And when you look at the level of prozac (etc.) consumption and the reasons for it, I'd say more miracles, regardless of how/why, is very needed these days. Luv to ya |
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I prefer not to even say I am a "believer", there is something called first hand experience, knowing and then of course just good old observation. Isn't that just anecdotal evidence, which is notoriously unscientific? Scientific? Like the premise that we originated from a big bang? Hey, the scientific method is great. But it also sets the rules on what is possible and what is impossible. In a sense, science sets rules and with those rules it excludes things that don't fit its model. The thing is, science, as great as it is, is still growing. So, until science discovers more, it is dependent on the variables it sets up to say what is possible and impossible. In a real world example, I would look into certain types of experiences that humans have that are termed supernatural (or excluded in other ways.) Well, there needs to be instruments to measure some of these subtle energies employed in the investigation. I do believe that is starting, but we are a long ways off as there is something at stake regarding the current "system". The miraculous, which many of us have experienced, is generally not reproducible. Guess that means miracles don't happen (according to science). There are many many flaws in science in these ways. It is valuable but at the same time it is being handcuffed. There are WAY less flaws in science than there are in your way of thinking. I can guarantee you that. No need to discuss it because a believer will not or refuses to understand why. Once again, i don't care what fantasy stories you believe in but as soon as you start talking about them as if they are facts be sure to have some proof ready. And ofcourse this is exactly where you and the millions of believer clones like you fail. All of them. All the time. Every single time! And i'm done with the subject. Wrong forum. I'll respond when you have proof for your claims though. Which we know will never happen because it's all random nonsense based on wishful thinking. The one big flaw in science though, no heart. Can't flaw me for that, can you? I love people, love the planet and hope we can save it/us. The funny thing about you is your handle. I mean you know that sounds like a magic mushroom kit. But judging from your dissconnection to life, I imagine you didn'T take enough. Try a heroic dosage, ala Terrence Mckenna next time Millions of clones, sounds like you are talking about the majority and not people who come from their heart. Wrong forum, agreed, Peace out, And don't forget to share (and smile while out and about). |
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Seems like the 110 level is a bit rough to break and hold on through. I really dislike the timing of that Mt Gox statement, again, looking at the order book on Bitstamp makes me wonder. How ugly is this screenshot I just took?  |
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I prefer not to even say I am a "believer", there is something called first hand experience, knowing and then of course just good old observation. Isn't that just anecdotal evidence, which is notoriously unscientific? Scientific? Like the premise that we originated from a big bang? Hey, the scientific method is great. But it also sets the rules on what is possible and what is impossible. In a sense, science sets rules and with those rules it excludes things that don't fit its model. The thing is, science, as great as it is, is still growing. So, until science discovers more, it is dependent on the variables it sets up to say what is possible and impossible. In a real world example, I would look into certain types of experiences that humans have that are termed supernatural (or excluded in other ways.) Well, there needs to be instruments to measure some of these subtle energies employed in the investigation. I do believe that is starting, but we are a long ways off as there is something at stake regarding the current "system". The miraculous, which many of us have experienced, is generally not reproducible. Guess that means miracles don't happen (according to science). There are many many flaws in science in these ways. It is valuable but at the same time it is being handcuffed. |
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Where is this graph from? Actually, including moon cycles is a standard feature in nearly every bitcoin charting service... from bitcoinity to clarkmoody. Who needs complex indicators when you've got the tide on your side? If the moon affects behavior enough to show marketable increases in crime, then why not buying behaviors? (Ever wonder where the word "Lunatic" came from?) I know my dream intensity increases during full moons and I've seen too many children have trouble sleeping during them, so something does look like it is being affected. We are not just walking around on a planet, we are a part of it and the Universe we live in. Our habits are influenced by everything,... grasshopper. (And then there is the Quantum Physics perspective if you prefer.) More crime during full moon is a myth. And there can be several reasons why you think you dream more intensly during full moon. Sorry, but I studied crime in school at the bachelors and masters level. I've seen the numerous studies. The only counter argument that has any validity is that it is lighter outside during full moons, but criminals tend to like darker places... You can comment upon anothers experiences but that is all you can do. It is quite individual. I'll go with the "primitive" peoples of the world who understand the dream world better. Speaking of, I have studied dreams for years and the correlation between full moons and dreaming is quite obvious. Now, if you practice recording dreams for 10+ years like me and you have first hand experience, then I'm all ears. But I have a feeling that most that comment, well, are just commenting. Right, and now you are gonna back up your claims with proof right? How about this, since this is the wall thread and I don't want to offend others outside their beliefs, you go back to yours and I'll just go back to mine... Now most are happy. What? No proof? Wow, now that's a surprise. Who would've guessed you'd make up an excuse as soon as the proof part comes. I certainly didn't. Because none of your kind of believers has ever done such a thing before. Excuse the late reply, but work called. When I was in College, a few of my teachers mentioned the correlation and said there was something to it. Now, when I look online, you are correct, at least with what I could find with crime and the moon. The bigger thing that I am speaking of though, remains true, we are a part of the earth and not separate from it. If you think things in our environment (and even things outside it like the moon) do not effect us, it makes no sense in a quantum physics sort of a way. Too many women (in particular) feel the full moon coming on and there is the menstration correlation as well. Of course there are many other examples we see in our lives that show we are not separate from Nature, we are born from it. Just like an apple tree "apples", the earth "peoples". Allan Watts said that and we don't lose the connection... |
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Interesting - There is around a $5 difference between Gox and Bitstamp. (Gox being higher). It really does look like there is buying on Gox because of the wire problem. Looking at the the below pic and the timing of Gox's announcement, makes one wonder:  |
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