Today we’re excited to announce Taro, a new Taproot-powered protocol for issuing assets on the bitcoin blockchain that can be transferred over the Lightning Network for instant, high volume, low fee transactions. This announcement marks a big shift to a multi-asset Lightning Network with the potential for the world’s currencies to route through bitcoin liquidity on the network. At its core, Taro taps into the security and stability of the bitcoin network and the speed, scalability, and low fees of Lightning. Together with the new protocol, we're also announcing our Series B fundraise to further build out Lightning Network infrastructure and help Number of People Go Up. 📈 Taro enables bitcoin to serve as a protocol of value by allowing app developers to integrate assets alongside BTC in apps both on-chain and over Lightning. This expands the reach of Lightning Network as a whole, bringing more users to the network who will drive more volume and liquidity in bitcoin, and allowing people to easily transfer fiat for bitcoin in their apps. More network volume means more routing fees for node operators, who will see the benefits of a multi-asset Lightning Network without needing to support any additional assets. https://lightning.engineering/posts/2022-4-5-taro-launch/Keep some of your attention on what these developers are trying to build on Bitcoin, and the Lightning Network. Node operators, prepare yourselves for more competition on those routing fees. Plebs accumulate as much Bitcoin as you possibily can during the next bear cycle. Bitcoin/Lightning might be more than a "payment network" during the new bull cycle. |
|
|
|
It will be a complicated issue from an idealistical perspective, but I believe in educating newbies and letting them make their own decisions as long as they know the risks/danger of what they want to do.
There is no danger. Why is everyone always so afraid of everything? You're in Bitcoin and believe in free (as in freedom), anarchistic money, in decentralization and in no authorities but you let a random American company tell you that some coins are better than others and let them decide which ones are? This is fucked. If you believe this and if you tell people this stuff, you're actually working against everything Bitcoin stands for and siding heavily with authoritarian, oppressive companies and organizations that wish nothing more than controlling every single thing you do, buy, everywhere you go, who you interact with and even what you think. OK, if you say so. But I personally don't want to be responsible if newbies' coins are withheld by an exchange just because I told them "there is no danger". Especially newbies who are Coinbase users. I am also starting to believe that Bitcoin should not be as "black" or "white", there are areas in the middle for all types of users. |
|
|
|
But from a practical standpoint for the newbies/ordinary users, would you recommend services that would taint their wallets that might make it hard for them to sell their coins in exchanges?
I would never recommend a newbie to use any service which enforces taint in any way. And again, if we are going to make newbies scared of tainted coins from day 1, then we are playing in to the hands of the authorities and doing exactly what they want - making sure newbies abandon their privacy immediately upon entering the space. It will be a complicated issue from an idealistical perspective, but I believe in educating newbies and letting them make their own decisions as long as they know the risks/danger of what they want to do. |
|
|
|
Why do you think Bitcoin's price hasn't stabilized yet?
I don't know. A path to price discovery? I once believed that Bitcoin surging to 5 digits would lessen volatility because "large" $100 - $500 differences in price daily during 2019 would be +/- 1% to 5%, or less if Bitcoin reaches $10,000 or more. But Bitcoin started to move $1,000 - $5,000 or more daily. Haha. Is there a possibility they will stabilize in the future? Your input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.  2019, yes. 2022, I don't know. |
|
|
|
@JJG +1 We all wished we would have been more aggressive but with what we knew at the time we were risking it all for magic internet moneyz that many deemed a tulip crisis I would want to be more someone like you, than someone like sgbett or proudhon, who I believe were the aggressive buyers of Bitcoin but might have sold them for a mere 10x of their original investment. Currently, they want Bitcoin's surge to happen to BCash SV. |
|
|
|
Russia does not have a positive future. In the east, it borders on the insidious China, in the south - on the bloodthirsty Taliban.
In the East, China is actually Russia's ally. Russia has already started a trade deal, and has just delivered China's order of oil and coal all paid in Yuan. I believe this will only be one of the actions that will start to weaken the U.S. Dollar's position as a world reserve currency. |
|
|
|
I also visited Wasabi Wallet's booth, actually that was my first stop. The man (not nopara73) gave me some of their rationale re their decision not to accept "certain" UTXOs in their CoinJoin service. It sounded plausible, in that it looks like it will be for a very limited number of cases (announced thefts of BTC and so on). Plausible, I did not feel like grilling him.
Can you please share/post more of what the notpara man said that made it plausible? I too believe that it's a practical solution for newbies/less-serious users who merely want to hide their sex toy purchase transactions from their wives, or employers, or employees? Haha. |
|
|
|
Covid pandemic + shortage of gas = inflation.
An economists would expect it but if an average Joe also knows it then time will just tell when the inflation will begin. It's not just Germany. My damn electric bill is going up every month and I am freaking out.
Our electric usage is the same, it's a routine. It even shows in the graph history of my monthly usage consumption. This is the time. They need the money back and people will pay for what they received for free in 3 years.
It's not just because of the increasing prices of commodities from the Energy Sector. The price of Fertilizer, and other commodities related to the Agricultural market has been increasing too. Russia is the largest exporter of fertilizer, now it's banned from the world market. |
|
|
|
Can you imagine if Walmart started saying every customer has to show the cashier their bank statement first so the cashier can see where their money is coming from? The result would be outrage as well as a huge hit to Walmart's profits. But for some reason this community, despite being founded on the principles of self ownership and no third party control, are fine with this exact scenario, and continue to use and support exchanges which are openly spying on you. It is mind boggling.
There is a difference. It is the way this community thinks. They see Walmart as a store they pay at for groceries. And they see Bitcoin and Centralized Exchanges as a way to get rich. Here is where the discrepancy comes from. They would not share personal information with Walmart because Walmart is the one getting paid by them. You do not purchase an apple to sell it ten fold the next day. But in their mind, Binance does offer you exactly this. Buy AppleRocketshipMaster3000Coin today and tomorrow you may be a millionaire or continue to be broke. These were exactly my thoughts as well. The ones that simply comply, are the ones that see Bitcoin as simply an investment like any other. I mean it depends how we define 'this community', of course. Personally, I don't consider myself in the 'same community' as the people who only see Bitcoin as a way to get rich and don't even understand its core principles. I do get that the loudest voices and probably also largest group of people falls into that category though, but these people are no cypherpunks. It's not possible for a cypherpunk to simply accept all those spying measures o_e_l_e_o described; all of us would react like the exemplary Walmart customer who would outrage if he had to prove fund origins when grocery shopping. You're right! The taint community can simply say that all coins coming from "Service A", or "Off-chain Layer B" are all tainted! But talking about fungibility, what's the practical solution if they can even say that all Monero coins are "taintcoins".
[...]
For simple untraceability/privacy without problems, I would recommend Wasabi to newbies for porn subscriptions or sex toy purchases that they want to hide from their wives.
[...]
I agree, and I have debated that taint doesn't exist in the blockchain. Plus that's why it's important that most of your Bitcoin that were converted from fiat should never be converted back to fiat. It's a practical solution.
Aren't you contradicting yourself constantly here? On one hand you agree 'taint doesn't exist' and on the other hand, you 'recommend Wasabi' for 'avoiding problems'. YES I am. Because in my original post, I was merely saying that it might be better for some users to use Wasabi to avoid future problems that they might be encountering with "taint". It's for practicality's sake.
As for your first question: 'What's the practical solution if they can say that all Monero coins are tainted'; it's in the question. Everyone can define taint as they wish. It's a subjective, arbitrary thing that you can simply choose not to accept. Who gives them the authority to define such a thing as 'taint'? The blockchain knows no taint, and we should stick to the blockchain, not some arbitrary group of people trying to convince us of properties that are not written on the blockchain.
But another problem for the "taint patrol", how can they distiguish which UTXOs came from "Mr. Heroine Dealer", and which came from "clean sources".
I could just say for instance, that all UTXOs that are sent to addresses starting with bc1q666.... are criminal, because they contain evil due to the number 666 or something like this. Of course, everyone will laugh at this 'taint definition' and not care about my opinion; continuing to accept coins from those addresses. We should not treat these 'taint definition companies' any different.
I agree with everything you stand for whole heartedly. But from a practical standpoint for the newbies/ordinary users, would you recommend services that would taint their wallets that might make it hard for them to sell their coins in exchanges? Or possibly even have legal problems? I personally would not want that responsibility. I believe I would recommend Wasabi for less problems with the "taint patrol" if the objective was to merely hide their porn subscriptions from their wives.  |
|
|
|
~
You're trolling, aren't ya?  In case you're not: The 'Coinbase' company was founded in 2012. Ever wondered how they came up with their name? A coinbase transaction is the transaction that grants a miner their block reward & the transaction fees. [...]
A coinbase transaction is the first transaction in a block. Miners use it to collect the block reward, and any additional transaction fees.
It’s like putting your details on a self-addressed envelope so you can collect prize winnings.
Those tiny transactions going to what seem like Bitcoin addresses containing words, are just spam. Those UTXOs are unspendable since the addresses are actually invalid. I was just making the story out of those clues. But its good to have detailed explanation above to understand what it is actually. Yes, I knew that Coinbase was founded in 2012 and mentioned the same above. However, I was just trying to figure out whether they already had a plan to invest in future exchange and wallet program. Those tiny transactions going to what seem like Bitcoin addresses containing words, are just spam. Those UTXOs are unspendable since the addresses are actually invalid. Wow, I did not know about this! Thanks for sharing this. I will read more about it. The fact that I myself mine, I never read in-depth to understand the first transaction in the block are called coinbase! But I am not a technical guy, I just read and build things. This is surely interesting topic to learn about. I think I will read in depth and also make topic about it in the beginners section. Nice idea! Thank you. Don't you worry about making mistakes, or post something stupid. It will happen to each one of us in our Bitcoin Journey. Sometimes it's better to learn the hard way to let the lessons go in hard. For plebs like us, it won't be the last lesson that we learn, the hard way. |
|
|
|
Those old UTXOs, before the scaling debate, and before the altcoin BCash and its fork BCash SV, and other forks like Bitcoin Gold, are VERY valuable. The owners can retrieve those Bitcoin forkcoins, and they can sell them for the real thing. |
|
|
|
I agree with everything in your post, and we are in the same side. But for the plebs' sake, especially for someone very new to Bitcoin, I won't recommend them to risk tainting their coins if they merely want privacy for the sake of privacy. That's just practically speaking ser. Here's the problem with that, though: The more people who buy in to this "taint" nonsense, then the more powerful it becomes. For that we have technologies available to keep Bitcoin fungible. No no, now you're again trying to 'exchange tainted coins for untainted ones' using technology. I use mixing and LN to cut ties in payment links, but be assured that in the future, the most 'tainted' UTXOs will be those coming out of mixing services. The whole 'taint community' (governments and their friends) will tell you those, as well as Lightning funds, are all tainted, because it's not sure that they come from a 'good, non-criminal origin'. Their goal is not fighting criminality. You're right! The taint community can simply say that all coins coming from "Service A", or "Off-chain Layer B" are all tainted! But talking about fungibility, what's the practical solution if they can even say that all Monero coins are "taintcoins".
If you compare the amount of crime conducted through BTC vs what is done through fiat, it's laughable. It's all about control. The authoritarians' preferred way for you to use Bitcoin is buying it in a KYC exchange, leaving it there and selling it later. At most, they want you to transfer it to a wallet and back into the exchange; they are trying to undermine its usage as a payment system entirely; especially if you introduce something that makes tracing harder.
I know! They're making criminals of ordinary people/plebs. But the cat is out of the bag, Bitcoin will enter gaps in markets, and especially those markets where it's truly needed.
That's why Wasabi changed course after being pressured by 3-letter agencies and now only mixes your inputs if they are 'untainted' (probably in the future only the case if coming directly from a centralized exchange). They will also surely give in to those agencies again if pressured and log mappings between inputs and outputs and provide them in case there was potential 'illicit activity' detected.
For simple untraceability/privacy without problems, I would recommend Wasabi to newbies for porn subscriptions or sex toy purchases that they want to hide from their wives.
There is no technical solution to this purely political problem. We have - as o_e_l_e_o said - to stop buying in to this "taint" nonsense.
I agree, and I have debated that taint doesn't exist in the blockchain. Plus that's why it's important that most of your Bitcoin that were converted from fiat should never be converted back to fiat. It's a practical solution. |
|
|
|
all full of possibilities, no one knows for sure, even though it's people who have been in the crypto world for a long time. are we going to follow other people's directions? I think it's good to follow personal analysis to be able to do it according to the analysis that has been determined by ourselves through research from our various points of view. that way if it's wrong then this is a learning process, and we don't feel cheated
You're right. I was merely sharing my own experience, and how it might help you in buying the DIP, and HODL. But I'm not perfect, and I might be wrong about 2023. It was a simple analysis based on Bitcoin's bull/bear cycles. It would be Bitcoin's first time to break its own cycle if 2023 doesn't show a golden DIP buying opportunity like 2019. |
|
|
|
I agree with everything in your post, and we are in the same side. But for the plebs' sake, especially for someone very new to Bitcoin, I won't recommend them to risk tainting their coins if they merely want privacy for the sake of privacy. That's just practically speaking ser. Here's the problem with that, though: The more people who buy in to this "taint" nonsense, then the more powerful it becomes. For that we have technologies available to keep Bitcoin fungible. We already have mixing/tumbling services and CoinJoin applications, which are undervalued by the community. We have Lightning/off-chain network technology, which can be utilized as privacy preservation networks. I truly believe Lightning should be more than a protocol for faster/cheaper Bitcoin payments. |
|
|
|
Something tells me this is only the beginning. Sure the current geopolitical situation has increased shortages, but long-term EU emission goals for 2050 and even for 2030 mean we'll have to consume much less fossil fuel. I've already seen memes about it. Those goals are unrealistic or at least very expensive. It was an idea, but I do not see how the EU will be able to achieve these goals within these deadlines, especially if it has to speed up the process at the moment in order to get rid of its dependence on Russian oil and gas. I think that some kind of turnaround will have to be made towards increasing the production of energy from nuclear power plants, which might mean building new ones. A few days ago I read the news that the UK plans to build several new nuclear power plants in response to the current crisis, and despite the EU's resistance to nuclear power, this seems like one of the proposals to be considered. As far as gas is concerned, the only logical choice is to build LNG terminals in strategic places in the EU, ie to upgrade the already existing infrastructure. I posted about something like that months ago, specifically in Germany. The fastest, most efficient and the cleanest, or "clean enough" way to generate energy in the E.U.is through Nuclear. That" if they want a real solution to be independent from Russian natural gas. Plus by winter if the E.U. and Russia has not come to a resulotion with this "Ukraine issue", they better have the Rouble to pay Putin. |
|
|
|
This war will have a significant impact all over the world. Not only Germany but also middle Western countries also facing food shortages and the price of food spiking up. Some Asian countries like Sri Lanka, and Pakistan also facing high prices for food even these countries can produce food for their population. People may fight the war on one side of the world but its consequences shake the whole world.
It's just starting ser. After more months of this, the cabal will have no choice and definitely need to raise the rates and cause a recession to control inflation. BUT it wouldn't be enough, it's too late. All the will cause is STAGFLATION in some countries like Turkey/Venezuela, a recession + inflation. Screencap this post if I'm right, I'll delete it if I'm wrong. Hahaha. |
|
|
|
|
Start saving some of your monthly salary in Bitcoin sers. The path to hyperinflation might be starting to show itself. This situation is what motivated Satoshi to code Bitcoin. For plebs like us to have a hedge in case the cabal behind the monetary system makes a fatal mistake.
|
|
|
|
The only positive thing that we, as mere plebs who have nothing to hide but also want a private cold-storage, can get from this is there's some assurance that if you want a CoinJoin without the risk of "taint", Wasabi can be the tool for you. North Korean hackers or Mr. Heroine Dealer should find another tool.
That's the wrong path, buddy. We should use, accept and spend 'tainted coins', because Bitcoin being fungible is one of its most important properties. If you start trying to get 'coins without risk of taint', you're starting to play after someone's arbitrarily set rules and not after Bitcoin's rules. It was just practically speaking ser. If you read my posts, I have always debated that "taint" doesn't exist in the blockchain. But because some exchanges refuse to accept your deposits because of "taint", I believe for plebs like us, it's better to avoid further problems regarding "taint". If your exchange won't accept your 'tainted deposit', don't use that exchange. Simple as that. I generally don't recommend centralized exchanges; if you use Bisq, there will be no 'taint issues'. If you do want to use a centralized one however, recently Kraken started accepting LN deposits and withdrawals. Lightning very effectively hides the origin / history of UTXOs, so I'm very happy to see this happen. They even link to open-source software like BTCPayServer and recommend Breez, Phoenix and Muun; the two former being my favourite mobile wallets - both open source and non-custodial. I agree with everything in your post, and we are in the same side. But for the plebs' sake, especially for someone very new to Bitcoin, I won't recommend them to risk tainting their coins if they merely want privacy for the sake of privacy. That's just practically speaking ser. I'm also for Lightning as a privacy application, which I believe could help increase its adoption futher than just for faster/cheaper transactions. I believe that pivot to a "privacy layer for Bitcoin" narrative will be a necessity. |
|
|
|
I'm also very confident that some users would rather be "criminals" than give back some of the freedom that they have won back through Bitcoin.
These moves aren't exclusively aimed at bitcoin nor have been provoked by them. Most of this has come to pass with the growing volume of trades and transactions that are happening on smart-contract platforms and the millions being moved in NFT sales. When only Bitcoin was being used, most transactions would have been smaller P2P ones. Those on Ethereum and these other platforms with VC money are huge and have been leading to a lot of people getting scammed and losing their money, OR, in a lot of other cases people making a lot of money without having to pay taxes. I doubt that the nation states cared till it was just people losing money to scammers. Since every kid in the basement is starting to make 1000s of dollars with NFTs and wallet farming, they don't seem to be very comfortable anymore. I believe that's where some of us might be wrong. In believing that the government is doing this for the prevention of plebs from being scammed. No, they're doing this because MASS ADOPTION of Bitcoin could mean death to their political strongholds. They didn't understand the underlying nature of Bitcoin until it was too late. The Pandora's Box is open, the government is merely trying to close it. |
|
|
|
I believe proudhon and sgbett are probably having the JOMO feeling right now, but I do not know why they are not currently trolling. Are they really buying and HODLing the DIP? The meaning of JOMO is in this topic, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5390052.0buying BTC!? oh boy... for someone that replies to my posts an awful lot, you sure do seem to not read them! Pesky lasers! It was merely a joke by libert19 ser. The meaning of JOMO is, the "Joy Of Missing Out". It's when a person missed a golden opportunity in buying a coin, but the coin then later crashed without hope of a pump to save it. Or, if Bitcoin "died", it could also be a person who sold all their Bitcoins under $1,000 during 2015, or under $10,000 during the scaling debate? I believe there's definitely many of them. |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
