It's the decentralized thing we are talking about. Although there are groups advocating pos, i don't think we can implement it just like that. Plus not many would agree to pos. So how do we fix the decentralized issue and still maintain the hash rate
I personally think bitcoin has much more systemic issues than the way it is mined. I think you solve the decentralization issue by taking away the financial incentive to controlling the network and supply of coins. |
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Just wondering how many people are ready to admit that it isn't gonna have main stream adoption?
I want to talk about why and what can be changed to fix bitcoin, but first we have to admit there is a problem.
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I hold bitcoins because it allows me to store and transfer value without the help of a middleman or the permission of an authority.
wrong. It doesn't allow you to store value Did it have value in the past? Yes. Does it still have value today? Yes. Will it have value in the future. I'm obviously betting (if you want to call it that, I've done my homework) it will. Just because a currency has a floating exchange rate does not mean that it can not store value. Perhaps experimental currencies are not for you. Come back in twenty years when things have normalized a bit. Currency doesn't have value it represents value, if bitcoin has value it is not a currency . Saying that currency has value, is like saying an inch has length. |
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"Economist Simon Johnson says governments will feel the urge to suppress the crypto-currency Bitcoin."
OMG, really?
I always thought they'd welcome Bitcoin with open arms. What a surprise!
Governments are indifferent to bitcoin because it is no threat. |
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your bank can close your credit card and freeze your account and there's nothing you can do about that.
bitcoin allows you to become your own bank, you can even loan funds to other people without anyone being able to stop you, no credit card can do that.
There are very few bank users who worry about having their account frozen or their credit card's line of credit frozen, because most people aren't terrorists or drug dealers. So tell me again why exactly everyone is going to start using bitcoin? Why would I want to loan money to a friend? That sounds like a bad idea to begin with, but I suppose if I really wanted to, I'd just write him a check? the IMF tells you black on white that it considers confiscating people's money and you still don't care. what else needs to happen for you to understand that sooner or later they are going to rob you. there won't be any more obvious signals than this, the next step is you wake up one day and your bank account is frozen. just like this guy did: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=160292.0Right now they are paying me to hold dollars, I can get more gold, more gas, more commodities, and after the last 4 days more stock. BTC is down 60 percent over the last 10 months, the good ol USD is up 8-9 percent against the euro, 9-11 percent against gold, 3 dollar gas is on the way. Bitcoin is inflating (which is a function of supply AND DEMAND) while the USD is deflating and you are telling me I will get robbed holding dollars and get rich holding BTC, I am telling you it is just the opposite. The best assets class right now is USD. |
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if you google "21$ in bitcoin" immediately there is a exchange rate. Just like any other currency or formula you can google. Guess what? The world knows about bitcoin; its capabilities has been shown. Guess what? The world is NOT impressed by bitcoin, and uninterested. Bitcoin is disliked, and is not useful to 95% of the population.
I was around in 2011, and we dreamed of this day, where the world has been exposed to bitcoin. As the saying goes "be careful what you wish for", there really isn't that much going on for bitcoin, but furthermore, the future of bitcoin.
Bitcoin is the Segway of money. It works, it's moderately useful, and it's not going to change the world. I do think decentralization and the blockchain will change the world, but these guys will be riding their segway's, while listening to napster, while surfing AOL, while counting their bitcoins and telling friends about it on myspace. |
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Point is that only 2-3 million people will ever have bitcoin because it is a failure and no one gives a fuck about it, and why would they? Most people dont give a shit and there is no good reason for them to start caring, bitcoin doesn't fix any problems the blockchain does , but the coin itself does not.
Someone tell PayPal, Expedia. Dell, newegg, overstock, dish etc.. Plonker. And yet the price continues tanking and the daily transaction volumes keep falling. |
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Point is that only 2-3 million people will ever have bitcoin because it is a failure and no one gives a fuck about it, and why would they? Most people dont give a shit and there is no good reason for them to start caring, bitcoin doesn't fix any problems the blockchain does , but the coin itself does not.
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I couldn't agree more OP it is a failure.
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I am pretty much ignorant about it. I have not looked into the details, but what I am wondering is if apple is using the blockchain tech to secure a private network. It sounded like the basics are that apple is setting up a public/private key system to enable its customers to make purchases and verify without divulging any personal information (information tied to the traditional banking system) .
Does anyone know if that is the case?
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Its just a publicity stunt. Bitcoiners flooded in pissed off at paypal. Now welcoming them with open arms  . Bitcoin was sold to the public as a way to get payment processors and their high fees out of our lives. Now that everyone realizes the cost of insuring their own transactions they are clamoring for financial institutions and governmental agencies to protect them from their own stupidity and inability to accurately assess risk. It is a "if you cant bet them join them" mentality, but to me it makes no difference there will never be wide spread adoption. Bitcoin itself solves no problems and adds extra layers of cost. |
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Call it what it is: DEATH TAX.
Since someone has to DIE for it to happen.
Why the government should get anything because someone dies is what is repugnant.
Study after study shows most millionaires earn their money, not inherit. But libtards always want more money. To buy votes and power to continue their agenda of getting a real 1984.
First I am opposed to all forms of theft or uh... taxes what ever you want to call it, but the death tax works like this. The government lets me defer all of my tax liability by reinvesting my profits to grow my business in the hopes that I will employ people and grow the pie for everyone. Let me restate that.. I pay 0 income taxes not one cent and sometimes get a refund even though I contribute nothing in the way of income tax. If I have a tax liability at the end of the year I spend what ever amount I need to on my business to 0 it out. I can do this indefinitely until I die at which point the government gets it's cut.. The government is owned by business and they make laws and tax code that benefits entrepreneurs, if you dont own a business you should start one if for no other reason than limiting you tax liability. |
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So you don't have to deal with having money stolen from paypal.
I don't think that is why Bitcoin is popular because of paypal issues. its more likely the concept of Bitcoin being virtual and a new currency. But what I think makes it even more popular is that people hate getting screwed over by banks and hate that banks are in control of your own money. thats why I think Bitcoin will succeed and why its better than dollars etc. yes, one of the main points for me, that many people miss is that with bitcoin you are finally in control of your own finances. No your not. The guy who bought 30k of them off the feds is in control, knc is in control, the winklevoss twin are in control. They are in control of the supply and the value of bitcoins. The central authority is play boy millionaires just like the dollar. |
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Perhaps an equally important question is: "Why use dollars when my bitcoins are working just fine for me?" Regardless, here are some reasons a merchant might prefer to accept bitcoins: - Lower transaction costs
- No chargebacks
- Reduces fraud
- Increased anonymity for their customers
- No need to inform a customer that their card has been denied
- Deflationary nature increases likelihood that a sale in the present will be worth more to them in the future
- Protects their customer from dishonest employees that might try to steal credit card info
- Protects the company against dishonest employees that might try to steal cash from the cash register
And here are some reasons why a customer might prefer to pay with bitcoins: - Lower transaction costs
- Reduces fraud
- Reduces risk of identity theft and theft of credit card info
- Funds protected against being frozen or seized
- Deflationary nature increases likelihood that bitcoins acquired in the past will provide greater value in the present
- Inconvenient and expensive to convert your bitcoin investment into dollars in order to spend any of it. Far more convenient to simply spend it directly (try that with your stock investment)
Danny, I respect the hell out of honest traders like yourself, but this is bullshit. Lower transaction cost my ass. Paypal lets me send for free if I want to take the risk in the transaction.. its hard to beat free. No charge back might be good for merchants but sucks a big one for customers Reduces fraud? have you looked over scam accusations on the forum? fraud is rampant Anonymity is not important in 99.9 percent of transactions deflation is as immoral as inflation... the only thing that changes is who is being robbed. Far more convenient to simply spend it.. as long as you dont want food or gas. The truth is there is no good reason to use bitcoin except for illicit purposes and it doesn't do a great job of that. Here are your points dissected one by one - Bitcoin also supports free. Bitoins not moved recently get processed fast even with 0 fee. The fee is there to prevent spam (and initiative for the miners after the rewards run out
- chargebacks are coming with bitcoin too in the form of 2 of 3 multi-sig based escrow. You pay for arbitrate only if there is dispute. Now with paypal you pay fee always
- yes, because people don't use escrow, that will quickly change as more easy to use tools come, they are being developed as we speak
- Anonymity WILL become more important as governments become more intrusive
- With deflation you don't rob anyone, you simply get rewarded for choosing to postpone your consumption
- it has tons of other purpose other than drugs, and obviosly does great job at ordering drugs
Bitcoin supports free transactions if you wanna wait 3 days.. paypal is instant Paypal has 0 fees if you send as a gift.. it cost nothing you dont always pay a fee. I love the deflation bias around here.. inflation robs currency savers, deflation robs currency borrowers. |
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It will fail and if it succeeds it will be a failure in my mind because it works of the scarcity model and widespread adoption would mean replacing one centrally controlled system with another. Bitcoin decentralization is a myth, any scarce item is a controlled and centralized item.
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I have been saying this. They will just take the btc off the front and put visa usd or pp usd. Private networks will adopt the protocol and drop the actual coins. It will benefit the existing system not replace it.  |
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Not sure if those are your words or if it was quoted from the link but either way I think you nailed it. The protocol is powerful but the coin itself will be a failure.
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Perhaps an equally important question is: "Why use dollars when my bitcoins are working just fine for me?" Regardless, here are some reasons a merchant might prefer to accept bitcoins: - Lower transaction costs
- No chargebacks
- Reduces fraud
- Increased anonymity for their customers
- No need to inform a customer that their card has been denied
- Deflationary nature increases likelihood that a sale in the present will be worth more to them in the future
- Protects their customer from dishonest employees that might try to steal credit card info
- Protects the company against dishonest employees that might try to steal cash from the cash register
And here are some reasons why a customer might prefer to pay with bitcoins: - Lower transaction costs
- Reduces fraud
- Reduces risk of identity theft and theft of credit card info
- Funds protected against being frozen or seized
- Deflationary nature increases likelihood that bitcoins acquired in the past will provide greater value in the present
- Inconvenient and expensive to convert your bitcoin investment into dollars in order to spend any of it. Far more convenient to simply spend it directly (try that with your stock investment)
Danny, I respect the hell out of honest traders like yourself, but this is bullshit. Lower transaction cost my ass. Paypal lets me send for free if I want to take the risk in the transaction.. its hard to beat free. No charge back might be good for merchants but sucks a big one for customers Reduces fraud? have you looked over scam accusations on the forum? fraud is rampant Anonymity is not important in 99.9 percent of transactions deflation is as immoral as inflation... the only thing that changes is who is being robbed. Far more convenient to simply spend it.. as long as you dont want food or gas. The truth is there is no good reason to use bitcoin except for illicit purposes and it doesn't do a great job of that. |
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