but the only things that happen in secrecy is nefarious.
Wut? Wanting privacy is nefarious? Bullshit. In today's world there are countless reasons to value privacy. unfortunately that is true, but as you point out in today's world. Because others believe they can dictate what can and can not be done there are valid reasons for secrecy. I dont consider smoking week to be nefarious but because others do and have the supposed right to enforce their world view on others it does create the need for secrecy. That is why I ask that it do both. |
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Social networks can be a system of reputation management, but they don't belong to the blockchain. The dollar has been very successful without a reputation management system built-in. We shall see BTC for what it is: a currency. There will always be good and bad people, exchanging fiat or BTC, but neither fiat nor BTC has any responsibility in telling who's who.
Yes it does it is called the court system |
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I think this is the root of the problem. In early human civilization trade was simple because you knew the history and reputation of the people that you traded with, but as civilizations grew the desire to trade outside of your trust network grew. So the need for middlemen and financial institutions came about. The problem is those institutions have siphoned off the productive efforts of their citizens or customers and have grown so powerful because of their privilege and have created a world dominated and control at gun point giving us ever growing police states and to big to fail banks. They no longer work for us but we work for them.
So the challenge as I see it is to recreate early civilization. We have a technology that can enable the entire world to know each others reputation. We can know the character of every man women and child on the planet. I will gladly trade without institutions or the protection of the state if i can know who I am dealing with. So far the reputation centers around bitcoin all start from scratch, We need a reputaion center that allows you to import trust from other areas of life, I think the guys at ripple are working on that, but as it stands now it is unusable IMO."
What if a man you highly trust become manipulated? In today's society, it's impossible to purely rely on trust, you should only rely on your own risk management, e.g. never risk more than you can afford to lose, then all the problem around trust is solved. Being a bitcoiner, the most important thing is risk management. And by doing this you also preserve the privacy, which lots of people (especially high net worth people) desire It is very good at doing that and if that is your only motivation then there is no need to go further, but the only things that happen in secrecy is nefarious. If bitcoin is only good for buying drugs, gambling, or paying for peep shows that is fine but is of no interest to me. I am asking that it do both open and honest transactions and private and nefarious ones too. |
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You're all putting too much effort into this. Here's the correct answer: That's ok, we don't want to play with you anyway.
Wait that is my view point |
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I should never have to worry about a flat tire, changing oil or batteries, and it certainly shouldn't ever be possible for me to get into an accident. When they build cars like this, ill be back. There are acceptable cost and unacceptable cost (which is a matter of opinion). It is a trade off. I agree tires shouldnt go flat and batteries should last the life of a car, but the cost of tires at this time that wont go flat is prohibitive. Other people feel the same way that is why they developed run flat tires and long lasting batteries, it is just a trade off more cost for less hassle. With BTC there are alternatives. There are money transfer system that offer protection and positive identification. In your analogy there are no cars that can never be involved in an accident in the future there will be automated cars that never (or almost never) have accidents. When that time comes most people wont be interested in buying a car that is a death trap if it makes financial sense. If you don't recognize how your ignorance is influencing your opinion, then you'll likely never use BTC again. That is okay there is no loss of quality of life if i never use bitcoin, other payment processors exist. That dont ask that I learn It skills or net security. Bitcoin is a tool if there are better tools what do I care. On a side note, i'd encourage you to think about some of your ideas about how you would like Bitcoin to look, and then try to think about why some of them are just bad ideas altogether that, if implemented, I'd bet you'd hate. I already use these methods and like them quite nicely. I dont have access to bio metrics or finger print data, but I establish identity the with the best methods available when I first started selling coins i would only sell through Facebook, I could glean lots of information about the character and identity of the people i was dealing with, I already use a system of rating here on this forum. Coinbase has a wallet that requires sms verification that I use that as a primary wallet. So how do you stop a spam rating that is negative You dont how do they stop that here? This trust system works just fine. Reminds me of the BS credit rating system we have today That is a bullshit system, there is no method of rebuttal There are a number of ways of linking your ID to an address. But, while remaining decentralized, how do you propose stopping people from linking fabricated identities to an address? You dont.. If someone has access to email and can verify it and access to facebook and can verify it and access to power bills and can verify it is 99.9 % that it is them. The way I Id is email verification, paypal verification, facebook verification, drivers licence verification, IP verification. Look at coinbases verification. They know what truck I owned in 2000 and the closest highway to my house in 97. Bitcoin and the community might not want to admit it but you are competing with the existing system, people are not gonna become It professionals so they can send money. They dont have to with other methods. |
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on your face  JK So as many of your know I have decided to back away for now. Bitcoin is a cool technology but it has given us the ability to by pass the government and financial institutions with out the tools to make it viable. The guys at ripple see this too and are working on building a trust network but is far from complete or stream lined and has other issues of centralization that make it some what more susceptible to intervention. (they may be able to work that out) For me to use Bitcoin I need to know who I am trading with so that I can move funds between reversible and irreversible systems. What I need is a decentralized system of reputation management. I want to be able to 1. ID... I want to link my real world identity to my wallet 2. Import trust... I want to link to other areas of my life to provide evidence of my character. I need to be able to import trust. 3. Rate.. I need to be able to rate right to someones wallet ID.. That way I can choose not to transact with people that have no ratings or have been flagged with a neg rating. I bought coins about 2 weeks ago that i later found out were stolen. i dont like that 4. See the people that the people I trust trust and their reputaion. 5. Have a client that isn't susceptible to hacks that is always synced. I want my mom to be able use bitcoin too. Dont let people sign up if you cant make them safe. 6. have a system for implementing changes Do these things and I will come....back. Not asking for much I know  . to be honest I dont know if technology is capable of creating a system like this. My dad is a computer engineer who has owned his own software company for 20+ years and he says if a man made it a man can break it. This is off a different thread --- "I am not saying it can never work just that it doesnt work now. The guys at ripple are working on some innovations that may make it viable. I think this is the root of the problem. In early human civilization trade was simple because you knew the history and reputation of the people that you traded with, but as civilizations grew the desire to trade outside of your trust network grew. So the need for middlemen and financial institutions came about. The problem is those institutions have siphoned off the productive efforts of their citizens or customers and have grown so powerful because of their privilege and have created a world dominated and control at gun point giving us ever growing police states and to big to fail banks. They no longer work for us but we work for them. So the challenge as I see it is to recreate early civilization. We have a technology that can enable the entire world to know each others reputation. We can know the character of every man women and child on the planet. I will gladly trade without institutions or the protection of the state if i can know who I am dealing with. So far the reputation centers around bitcoin all start from scratch, We need a reputaion center that allows you to import trust from other areas of life, I think the guys at ripple are working on that, but as it stands now it is unusable IMO." 1.) There are a number of ways of linking your ID to an address. But, while remaining decentralized, how do you propose stopping people from linking fabricated identities to an address? 2, 3, 4.) While remaining decentralized, how do you propose stopping people from creating multiple accounts and giving themselves fabricated feedback? Or, how would you stop me from givin you infinitely negative feedback without just cause? 5.) We already do have clients that are virtually hack proof assuming you use them correctly. I think you mean 'computers' that are hack proof. The problem you seem to have is that you keep blaming "tech" stuff you admittedly don't understand. The result is that you're identifying problems that are inaccurately defined, or that may not even be a problem at all. Besides, what part of 'beta' project don't you understand? Bitcoin isn't even an alpha release yet! This should be a resoundingly clear indicator of its current (key word) risk. 6.) We have a system for implementing changes. It's called open-source code and miner voting power. I dont have the answers but when they are built I will be back. |
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Or....
Dont accept PayPal for bitcoins...stop trying to find a way to get around that fact.
It has to happen for it to work. Period You have to be able to trade for debit card payments, paypal, credit cards, bank transfer. That is the only way. |
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on your face JK So as many of your know I have decided to back away for now. Bitcoin is a cool technology but it has given us the ability to by pass the government and financial institutions with out the tools to make it viable. The guys at ripple see this too and are working on building a trust network but is far from complete or stream lined and has other issues of centralization that make it some what more susceptible to intervention. (they may be able to work that out) For me to use Bitcoin I need to know who I am trading with so that I can move funds between reversible and irreversible systems. What I need is a decentralized system of reputation management. I want to be able to 1. ID... I want to link my real world identity to my wallet 2. Import trust... I want to link to other areas of my life to provide evidence of my character. I need to be able to import trust. 3. Rate.. I need to be able to rate right to someones wallet ID.. That way I can choose not to transact with people that have no ratings or have been flagged with a neg rating. I bought coins about 2 weeks ago that i later found out were stolen. i dont like that 4. See the people that the people I trust trust and their reputaion. 5. Have a client that isn't susceptible to hacks that is always synced. I want my mom to be able use bitcoin too. Dont let people sign up if you cant make them safe. 6. have a system for implementing changes Do these things and I will come....back. Not asking for much I know . to be honest I dont know if technology is capable of creating a system like this. My dad is a computer engineer who has owned his own software company for 20+ years and he says if a man made it a man can break it. This is off a different thread --- "I am not saying it can never work just that it doesnt work now. The guys at ripple are working on some innovations that may make it viable. I think this is the root of the problem. In early human civilization trade was simple because you knew the history and reputation of the people that you traded with, but as civilizations grew the desire to trade outside of your trust network grew. So the need for middlemen and financial institutions came about. The problem is those institutions have siphoned off the productive efforts of their citizens or customers and have grown so powerful because of their privilege and have created a world dominated and control at gun point giving us ever growing police states and to big to fail banks. They no longer work for us but we work for them. So the challenge as I see it is to recreate early civilization. We have a technology that can enable the entire world to know each others reputation. We can know the character of every man women and child on the planet. I will gladly trade without institutions or the protection of the state if i can know who I am dealing with. So far the reputation centers around bitcoin all start from scratch, We need a reputaion center that allows you to import trust from other areas of life, I think the guys at ripple are working on that, but as it stands now it is unusable IMO." |
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Ya I see that now, but still.
I would recommend a market place thread for BTC only. It junks up the thread.
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Eventually my car was booted/towed.
look how safe I am!
That is how the state steals cars, they tow it then they impound, you have to pay the tow and and heavy daily impound fee, next thing you know you dont have a job because you cant get back and forth to work. It is for the common good... obviously  |
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You might as well be arguing, "why bother having a deadbolt or a security system in your house. One lock should be enough, and if it isn't then the police should protect you."
I dont lock doors in my cars or home. I dont want to live in a world that it is necessary and it offers no protection, that is just the illusion of safety. Trusted finacial institutions dont offer true security either they steal from me all the time too that is what feedback is all about the best indication of future behavior is past behavior. We are lucky if we wake up tomorrow. Safety is a illusion, but there are acceptable risk and unacceptable ones after reading further , i find you to be a pathetic excuse for a grown up ........actually how old are you im guessing 17-18 , take responsibility for your life . not locking doors everyone doing everything for you , serious you sound like a fucking PUSSY get over your self man !!!!!!! lifes tuff if you think getting skanked 1.4 bitcoins is bad you wouldn't last 2 seconds in my shoes pal you would be eaten alive !!!!!!!!!!!!! To the rest of the forum users im sorry for this out burst i just think this guy is Pathetic and someone should point that out!!! Has Kurt as his profile picture and cries about his life and I am the whinny bitch. I bet you cired when your boyfriend blew his brains out. |
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You seem to be a generally good hearted person, and I hate to see bad things happen to good people. But if you learn anything from this incident, it should be that not everyone in this world is as good hearted as you are, and some of them have no issue with doing you harm. So please take my advice and take every step necessary to protect yourself, even if you feel you shouldn't have to. A good place to start would be locking your doors. https://i.imgur.com/L4SqaoL.jpg9348 nc hwy 210 my doors will be unlocked come on in, but if you intend to do me harm I hope you dont value your life. |
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"Have you heard of something called 'risk assessment'?"
Ya, I like taking calculated risk. That is what my business selling coins for paypal was all about people said it couldnt be dont profitably. I proved that wrong sold 80,000 dollars worth to people without having any reputation center. I made 10 k profit. But I make a lot more with less head ache and risk in my other business. I work 20 hours or less a week from home and make around 50 k
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I am shocked that it is too, but we are having philosophical conversation about why bitcoin is not suitable in its current state
To the little cock sucker a couple post up. This is just some of the highlights of my life, No one has done much of anything for me and I am no pussy. This is off a different thread.
"Ya right I havent been around dude you have no Idea what you are talking about. I have more life experience than you almost guaranteed my life has been a trip.
Short list--
Spent almost 2 years on tour with widespreadpanic
Spent 5 months in prison
taken every hallucinogen know to man
was in a fatal car accident where my girl friend was killed
Owned several business
watched my uncle die from pancreatic cancer
was an auto tech for 9 years
sunk my boat and had a 18 hour swim to shore
traveled the south east on the north florida shroom guide
am an ammature mycologist
been living on my own since 17
live through hurrican katrina right on the gulf cost the eye pasted over me
Am married with a son
was on probation for 6 years
have two felony convictions
have lived in both rural and urban communities
have paid over 100k to the state for various reasons
Sold 480 thousand dollars worth of weed in 3 months
Have carried over 100k in usd took 5 hours betwwen 2 people just to count
And much more.
I have been around"
So suck my dick faggot!
Had to quote this. No need to quote, I wont delete it. |
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I am not saying it can never work just that it doesnt work now the guys at ripple are working on some innovations that may make it viable.
I think this is the root of the problem in early human civilization trade was simple because you knew the history and reputation of the people that you traded with, but as civilizations grew the desire to trade outside of your trust network grew. So the need for middlemen and financial institutions came about. The problem is those institutions have siphoned off the productive efforts of their citizens or customers and have grown so powerful because of their privilege and have created a world dominated and control at gun point giving us ever growing police states and to big to fail banks that no longer work for us but that we work for.
So the challenge as I see it is to recreate early civilization. We have a technology that can enable the entire world to know each others reputation. We can know the character of every man women and child on the planet. I will gladly trade without institutions or the protection of the state if i can know who I am dealing with. So far the reputation centers around bitcoin all start from scratch, We need a reputaion center that allows you to import trust from other areas of life, I think the guys at ripple are working on that.
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I am shocked that it is too, but we are having philosophical conversation about why bitcoin is not suitable in its current state
To the little cock sucker a couple post up. This is just some of the highlights of my life, No one has done much of anything for me and I am no pussy. This is off a different thread.
"Ya right I havent been around dude you have no Idea what you are talking about. I have more life experience than you almost guaranteed my life has been a trip.
Short list--
Spent almost 2 years on tour with widespreadpanic
Spent 5 months in prison
taken every hallucinogen know to man
was in a fatal car accident where my girl friend was killed
Owned several business
watched my uncle die from pancreatic cancer
was an auto tech for 9 years
sunk my boat and had a 18 hour swim to shore
traveled the south east on the north florida shroom guide
am an ammature mycologist
been living on my own since 17
live through hurrican katrina right on the gulf cost the eye pasted over me
Am married with a son
was on probation for 6 years
have two felony convictions
have lived in both rural and urban communities
have paid over 100k to the state for various reasons
Sold 480 thousand dollars worth of weed in 3 months
Have carried over 100k in usd took 5 hours betwwen 2 people just to count
And much more.
I have been around"
So suck my dick faggot!
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You obviously have not been following along I dont care about 1.4 BTC
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You might as well be arguing, "why bother having a deadbolt or a security system in your house. One lock should be enough, and if it isn't then the police should protect you."
I dont lock doors in my cars or home. I dont want to live in a world that it is necessary and it offers no protection, that is just the illusion of safety. Trusted finacial institutions dont offer true security either they steal from me all the time too that is what feedback is all about the best indication of future behavior is past behavior. We are lucky if we wake up tomorrow. Safety is a illusion, but there are acceptable risk and unacceptable ones |
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When I can say hey mom go to this site an get a wallet and know she will be safe and that she will be able to move funds around the internet and can get money into and out of the system easily without going to the bank then I will support it again until then I am out. I already took the bitcoin sticker off my car.
That exact service may exist some day soon or not-so-soon. It will have fees (visible or hidden). It will also remove the benefits of decentralization. You are going to have to trust that service provider to protect you. You are going to have to comply with the various laws which exist for those types of services. This means you are going to have to trust your government (or the government of the service provider) as well. Again, due to Bitcoin's decentralized nature, it is up to each user to protect themselves. In fact, this is true for most things in life, regardless of how many safety nets seem to be in place. It looks like you want your cake (freedom) and want to eat it too (no responsibility). Life doesn't work like that and neither does Bitcoin. They never will. "That exact service may exist some day soon or not-so-soon. It will have fees (visible or hidden)." Not so-soon. Bitcoin has massive hidden fees the extremely high rates of theft and visible mining fees. I can load currency into paypal send it any where in the world for free, but I have to take the risk in that transaction "or the government of the service provider" You are talking about the need for escrow that will always exist.
Yes I want my cake and eat it too. I want a currency that i can use anonymously if I choose and if i choose transparently.
I want one that that I can send to people I trust any where in the world where I bear the risk and one where I can be protected
"Again, due to Bitcoin's decentralized nature, it is up to each user to protect themselves." For now. "In fact, this is true for most things in life, regardless of how many safety nets seem to be in place." Absolute security does not exist, but there are acceptable risk and unacceptable ones. "It looks like you want your cake (freedom) and want to eat it too (no responsibility). Life doesn't work like that and neither does Bitcoin. They never will." No I want options I want the option to engage in completely free trade P2P at my own risk or the option to trade transparently in a protected environment. It is a trade off It doent require government regulation to achieve what I desire.
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My mistake I used poor wording. You are correct, my point is the only real market in bitcoin is the silkroad and they use blockchain price which happens to reflect bitstamp price for now it was mt gox.
So the only real market place with any volume at all uses blockchain.info's price. It is the face of bitcoin.
"transact out in the open" transparent as in with your real world identity associated with it.
"There are also many "feedback mechanisms"" I should be able to rate an address. If people could rate addresses then when some one stole you would know it.
I had a guy a couple weeks ago steal on otc and sell to me here. I do not like buying stolen coins.
I wouldn't say poor, more like confusing. You keep saying market, which most people would assume to mean a bitcoin exchange (see: http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/). However you seem to be using the word to refer to "markets" that accept bitcoin, of which you are correct in that SilkRoad is probably the largest in terms of volume. However Bitmit is also quite large, and they offer several price options for a seller to use when listing items in USD: Bitstamp, Mt.Gox (24-hr and last), and something they call bitcoinaverage which I assume to be a composite figure. Furthermore, Blockchain.info seems to use the Mt.Gox weighted average, so saying that SilkRoad uses the Blockchain.info price, which in turn uses the Mt.Gox weighted average is a misrepresentation of the facts, even if for some reason SilkRoad actually retrieves their price from the Blockchain.info site. Bottom line is, you're giving Blockchain.info far too much credit, and by extension too much culpability. I've never had any dealings with you before, but from what I can tell you seem to be a valued member of the bitcoin community (or at least the bitcointalk.com community), and provide a beneficial service. I realize such a loss can be greatly discouraging, but don't let it drive you away from bitcoin as a whole. From what you have learned if this thread you should be able to prevent this from happening again if you decided to stick with it. As for the list you posted, all of those items look disconcerting, with the exception of maybe the Ask Toolbar. A virus scan may help clean up your computer, but no anti-virus software is perfect, and in the end it will be up to your to educate and protect yourself from malicious software, or as someone else suggested relegate different tasks to different devices. From personal experience I can tell you: knowledge is power. I haven't used anti-virus software regularly for the past decade; I download something every so often to scan my computer, but always end up not finding anything. When people ask me what anti-virus software I use, I laugh and say, "I don't download viruses." Ya I need to be saying market place. Guys this hack and theft are small time. I have had 2 k in charge backs, I am not quitting because of this hack i am quitting because i believe this wont work the way it is currently set up it has to be better than this. I sold 80k worth of coin all p2p with paypal I know it is a profitable business that can be insured. There has to be a better system When I can say hey mom go to this site an get a wallet and know she will be safe and that she will be able to move funds around the internet and can get money into and out of the system easily without going to the bank then I will support it again until then I am out. I already took the bitcoin sticker off my car. |
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