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421  Economy / Speculation / Re: why the bitcoin price is going down ? on: October 05, 2014, 02:42:04 PM
Everyone is selling right now because they think the price go lower.. (maybe will happen) so they wont lose a lot of money

Ding, ding, ding we have a winner, but why do they think the price is going to go down? Because bitcoin's value was blown way out of proportion by speculators and the mt gox fraud, now it will go down to the a market cap that is some where near what is need to facilitate trades, which is like 20 bucks.

What is needed to facilitate trades is not a small / high market cap, but stability.  Smiley

Stability comes when there is a market to back up the price.. it is the ability to redeem that gives currency its value.
422  Economy / Speculation / Re: I AM HODLING on: October 05, 2014, 01:58:07 AM
So, I just picked up some coins @ 329, tell me why I made a huge mistake...

"319 currently" because you are going to lose purchasing power.
423  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bottom will be 230-270 on: October 05, 2014, 12:11:42 AM
You don't get it, there's no bottom. There's a perpetual PoW mining expense that is sucking value out of Bitcoin. As long as no new money coming in, Bitcoin will perpetually fall in value. So you better wish there's new money coming in to boost the price.


Its not pow or pos that is the problem its mined coins in general, coins need to be issued into existence the mining should just secure the network and ledger.

The reason there is no bottom is the same reason bitcoin isn't currency.. Bitcoin doesn't have a market price.




424  Economy / Speculation / Re: why the bitcoin price is going down ? on: October 04, 2014, 10:52:17 PM
Everyone is selling right now because they think the price go lower.. (maybe will happen) so they wont lose a lot of money

Ding, ding, ding we have a winner, but why do they think the price is going to go down? Because bitcoin's value was blown way out of proportion by speculators and the mt gox fraud, now it will go down to the a market cap that is some where near what is need to facilitate trades, which is like 20 bucks.
425  Economy / Speculation / Re: why the bitcoin price is going down ? on: October 04, 2014, 10:46:41 PM
 
Also I think Russia is getting out this week: http://www.coindesk.com/russia-proposes-fines-bitcoin/

a press release was posted elsewhere on bitcointalk that linked to a new release in Russian that allegedly said the central bank of Russia rejected the proposals due to it not being consistent with their objectives.  Either way, they are merely proposals.  And even full out laws banning bitcoin will likely have the same effect as if they attempted to ban bittorrent.



 Tongue Grin Grin Grin Tongue BTC-e: 319.619   Grin Grin Grin Grin Tongue
426  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Banks have nothing to fear from the bitcoin network on: October 03, 2014, 01:14:44 AM
what they are afraid is that they lose their comissions because some can move from A B C D...
so it may be many movements before there is a fiat income to the bank

That doesn't matter. They will just cut you off at the point of centralization the government will just say where did you get the funds from? did you make a profit and they will be able to look at the public record of your transactions. 
427  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Banks have nothing to fear from the bitcoin network on: October 03, 2014, 01:12:11 AM

When Alice buys bitcoins from Bob, fiat moves from Bank A(Alice) to Bank B(Bob), hence there is no loss for the banking system.
In other words banks have nothing to fear from the bitcoin network, right?



Exactly the banks have nothing to fear, the governments have nothing to fear, the status quo has nothing to fear, the ruling elite have nothing to fear... So why support it again? 
428  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Ready to admit bitcoin is a failure? on: September 30, 2014, 06:02:53 PM
... I dont say it is a failure because it hasn't made me rich, I say it is a failure because it cant replace government issued fiat.  

But I don't think that has ever been on the table. No responsible government is going to risk their economy on bitcoin. Maybe in 20 years, but I can't see it happening anytime soon.


I dont plan on asking the government if it gives a fuck if i take away its control mechanism. The government can suck a dick. I am not asking for permission to change the world. Did napster ask the music industry what it thought about file sharing? did Uber ask the government if it could avoid its burdensome regulations?.. the governments dont fear bitcoin because it cant change the status quo. I am talking about giving them something to fear.   
429  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Ready to admit bitcoin is a failure? on: September 30, 2014, 04:16:52 PM
I'll admit it's a failure wqhen it actually fails. At the moment it seems to be working perfectly fine for me.

Is it working perfectly fine as a store of value for you? how about anyone else who bought or was paid for labor in the last 10 months with bitcoin?
430  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Ready to admit bitcoin is a failure? on: September 30, 2014, 04:06:27 PM
I see a lot of others are all in and going down with the ship, any descent is treason... I support digital currency in fact I think it is the most important thing that we could achieve in our life times.. That is why I hate to see so much wasted time and effort on a concept that cant work. I dont have a profit motive.. I know that is unfathomable around here but I am not in digital currency for personal enrichment. I dont say it is a failure because it hasn't made me rich, I say it is a failure because it cant replace government issued fiat.  
431  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Ready to admit bitcoin is a failure? on: September 30, 2014, 03:51:36 PM
Is it not too early to call this great experiment in virtual currency, null and void?

For sure, I am not saying that digital currency is a failure, I am saying we have not made a digital currency we have made a digital asset. Virtual currency is thousands of years old the first currency was virtual in the form of a promise to pay.

There is no double top. A double top has peaks separated by weeks to months.
...
Those peaks are on the 1st and 4th of Feb, which is three days. The pattern being formed is pretty clearly a bullish wedge. Not a guarantee that we'll break $21.5/$22, but an indicator that its likely.

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg30zigHourlyztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv

There is absolutely a bullish wedge on the hourly chart.
Also, look how fast the retrace is out of the dips. Like a cat on a hot tin roof.
Bitcoin is already putting a floor in at $21...

Yep, just waking up and seeing this. I think we've already touched $22.00/BTC.

To me, this is both exciting and disappointing. It's exciting because I'm holding a good bit of BTC in my wallet. It's disappointing because I fear that we might be heading into the "danger zone". A bunch of amateur speculators buying something like crazy rarely ends well. Another Bitcoin bubble and crash could be very bad for the BTC's long-term future.

--ATC--


Very surprised by your analyses, I think we might be in complete agreement. I am very bearish btc right now. I was getting bearish at 19. 

Still feeling the pain of not buying in at $19 ?

No I never had a profit motive, I only want to profit when I provide value to other people. I did buy in at 12 dollars each and many many other prices, but I only bought and sold coins. I wanted to make money by providing a service (liquidity). I made 12k profit buying and selling coins and I also grew my credit score by financing a mining rig and paying it off.   
432  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Ready to admit bitcoin is a failure? on: September 30, 2014, 05:41:25 AM
Is it not too early to call this great experiment in virtual currency, null and void?

For sure, I am not saying that digital currency is a failure, I am saying we have not made a digital currency we have made a digital asset. Virtual currency is thousands of years old the first currency was virtual in the form of a promise to pay.
433  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Ready to admit bitcoin is a failure? on: September 30, 2014, 03:39:27 AM

Two Kinds of Money

1.The Scarcity Model: A single uniform quantity in limited supply made valuable by its own scarcity.
In other words, the value of this type of money depends on the supply of, and demand for, the money commodity itself. Conventional definitions of money define money only in terms of this model, a "medium of exchange". Examples are: cowries, gold and silver, fiat cash and coins, bank credit, and now, in the model's purest and most spectacularly speculative form, Bitcoin.

2. The Abundance Model. A promise of something specific from someone specific made valuable by its redemption in real production. The value of this type of money is defined by the promised redemption in goods and/or services. As such, this type of money is promises of an indefinite number of non-uniform commodities in indefinite supply and, unlike the limited quantity "coin" concept of money, the total quantity of these credits in circulation does not affect their value, because the value of a credit is defined by what its issuer will redeem it for in real goods and/or services. Examples are: business-to-business barter credits, customer rewards, travel points, discount coupons, mutual credit systems.

These views focus on the current and future properties of money, a credit money always have a risk of default, so the value of it worth much less than value-already-paid money

From my view, there are only two kinds of money: Monopolistic money which are forced to be used, and free money which people use voluntarily

When central bank have monopole on money creation, they could create what ever theory to support their money and there will be no one knows if they are true. But if there are competitors, people will find out by themselves


Dude I dont know what you dont get about it? There is no such thing as value already paid money all money is a debt! I freaks me out that you think when you get bitcoin you have been paid. The only way that is true is if what you wanted was bitcoin.
434  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Ready to admit bitcoin is a failure? on: September 30, 2014, 03:33:16 AM
Bitcoin, like everything, have an up and down of its price. Guys, it needs times for the people to accept BTC in their lives.
When i say times i say generation, because try to explain BTC to a person 70-80 years old..

Why the ppl think always to convert btc>usd  , btc>eur ?  Think only to BTC !

Because the dollar has a market price and does not violate the regression theorem. Bitcoin has no price you cant say what a bitcoin is, I can say a dollar is a mic chicken is a 2 liter, is a 1/3 of a gallon of gas.. people dont think in bitcoin because you cant say what is worth it can be anything!    Bitcoin is just a transfer mechanism for USD. 
435  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Ready to admit bitcoin is a failure? on: September 30, 2014, 03:26:07 AM
This is one of those threads that you necro in a few months to see if the OP is still around, or if they feel the same way.   Cheesy

These reactionary threads always provide great entertainment after the inevitable spike up.


I developed my view point after at least 1200 transactions most p2p and while the price was around 122 on the way 1200 and have maintained it since. I sold off my 12k dollar LTC mining operation and all of my BTC and LTC.. I also took the bitcoin bumper sticker off my car. My mind is made up. My only real goal is to replace the dollar and bitcoin cant do that and if it did we would just be replacing one centrally controlled monetary system for another.
436  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Ready to admit bitcoin is a failure? on: September 29, 2014, 05:47:00 AM
It's impossible to say bitcoin is a failure when it has always been number 1 and no signs of stopping

is the total failure to rally and continual selling pressure not a sign? or the continual centralization of miner power? whether people like it or not, superior technology is going to supplant bitcoin at some stage. sooner is more likely than later.

YUP +1

Please describe how a currency might be such superior and how it will take off faster than bitcoin's network effect.

It looks like you might already know, seems that you are familiar with a lot of paul grignons works I am sure you have heard of his proposal for a digital currency right?

His proposal wont grow as quickly because there is no gain beyond using an honest form of currency.

http://www.moneyasdebt.net/
He wanted to do a film about Bitcoin. Whatever happened to that?

If he did want to do a video about bitcoin it wouldnt have anything favorable to say. This is from Paul.

"1.The Scarcity Model: A single uniform quantity in limited supply made valuable by its own scarcity.
In other words, the value of this type of money depends on the supply of, and demand for, the money commodity itself. Conventional definitions of money define money only in terms of this model, a "medium of exchange". Examples are: cowries, gold and silver, fiat cash and coins, bank credit, and now, in the model's purest and most spectacularly speculative form, Bitcoin.

2. The Abundance Model. A promise of something specific from someone specific made valuable by its redemption in real production. The value of this type of money is defined by the promised redemption in goods and/or services. As such, this type of money is promises of an indefinite number of non-uniform commodities in indefinite supply and, unlike the limited quantity "coin" concept of money, the total quantity of these credits in circulation does not affect their value, because the value of a credit is defined by what its issuer will redeem it for in real goods and/or services. Examples are: business-to-business barter credits, customer rewards, travel points, discount coupons, mutual credit systems."
Bitcoin fits both models. I hope he isn't implying that someone will dictate what is the best money for the whole world. That would simply be sophomoric.

Bitcoin does not fit both models its value is a product of supply and demand, and no he isnt implying someone will dictate the best form of money, but what he does imply is the the scarcity model leads to control and manipulation.
437  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Ready to admit bitcoin is a failure? on: September 29, 2014, 05:12:34 AM
It's impossible to say bitcoin is a failure when it has always been number 1 and no signs of stopping

is the total failure to rally and continual selling pressure not a sign? or the continual centralization of miner power? whether people like it or not, superior technology is going to supplant bitcoin at some stage. sooner is more likely than later.

YUP +1

Please describe how a currency might be such superior and how it will take off faster than bitcoin's network effect.

It looks like you might already know, seems that you are familiar with a lot of paul grignons works I am sure you have heard of his proposal for a digital currency right?

His proposal wont grow as quickly because there is no gain beyond using an honest form of currency.

http://www.moneyasdebt.net/
He wanted to do a film about Bitcoin. Whatever happened to that?

If he did want to do a video about bitcoin it wouldnt have anything favorable to say. This is from Paul.

"1.The Scarcity Model: A single uniform quantity in limited supply made valuable by its own scarcity.
In other words, the value of this type of money depends on the supply of, and demand for, the money commodity itself. Conventional definitions of money define money only in terms of this model, a "medium of exchange". Examples are: cowries, gold and silver, fiat cash and coins, bank credit, and now, in the model's purest and most spectacularly speculative form, Bitcoin.

2. The Abundance Model. A promise of something specific from someone specific made valuable by its redemption in real production. The value of this type of money is defined by the promised redemption in goods and/or services. As such, this type of money is promises of an indefinite number of non-uniform commodities in indefinite supply and, unlike the limited quantity "coin" concept of money, the total quantity of these credits in circulation does not affect their value, because the value of a credit is defined by what its issuer will redeem it for in real goods and/or services. Examples are: business-to-business barter credits, customer rewards, travel points, discount coupons, mutual credit systems."
438  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Ready to admit bitcoin is a failure? on: September 29, 2014, 03:15:54 AM
It's impossible to say bitcoin is a failure when it has always been number 1 and no signs of stopping

is the total failure to rally and continual selling pressure not a sign? or the continual centralization of miner power? whether people like it or not, superior technology is going to supplant bitcoin at some stage. sooner is more likely than later.

YUP +1

Please describe how a currency might be such superior and how it will take off faster than bitcoin's network effect.

It looks like you might already know, seems that you are familiar with a lot of paul grignons works I am sure you have heard of his proposal for a digital currency right?

His proposal wont grow as quickly because there is no gain beyond using an honest form of currency.

http://www.moneyasdebt.net/
439  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: PayPal now lets shops accept Bitcoin on: September 28, 2014, 11:36:27 PM
What you retards dont get is that as more merchants accept bitcoin it causes the liquidity to go up and the price to do down. Adoption of anything other than hoarding puts downward pressure on the price. In other words good news about increased acceptance and use is bad news for the price.
440  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Is mining still profitable? on: September 28, 2014, 11:12:01 PM
Not for individuals
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