I cant help but wonder what is ppl thinking for paying 3500$ for a 11th miner? thats a 14 month to ROI without any diff increase.
At 5 cents electricity, it is now 16-17 months, 480-510 days. At 10 cents electricity, it is 20 months, 600 days. That isnt possible. This is without difficulty increase and new stronger machines coming in.... Price should go down to $1100-1200usd? Lucky for you someone else beat you to checkout because ROI is now 848 days for an A821 at $3500 & 0.10/kWh. Which basically means never! All those ebayers are still paying $3500 for an S9 and $2000 for an A741 too.
These people do not know wat they are doing.... |
|
|
|
I am not protecting my income. I am being realistic. It is either a certain amount of miners function and some profit can be made OR there are too many miners and 80-100% of miners dont break even. This happens in all oversupplied markets. If there is oversupply, new miners will just not break even. An OPEC for miners would make sense. And it is not just OPEC. There are many other organizations that do similar things to have a market make sense...on things like control catch rates in the sea to prevent overfishing from killing fish populations. This is despite fisherman wanting to catch more to earn more, etc. There is even a federation for maple syrup lol. And imo, organizations like OPEC are kinda needed to ensure that oil is properly supplied to the world. They need to calculate how much to invest in infrastructure because it take a year before any new oil actually comes online...etc. Check out dash mining now. There are too many ASICS and in general, no dash miner can profit. There is a 5k+ usd miner that makes 200-300 usd or a 1.4k miner that makes 25-100 usd a month. If price does not increase drastically, all miners will not not break even. There is no guarantee dash will rise. Dash difficulty has been DROPPING as it is https://www.coinwarz.com/difficulty-charts/dash-difficulty-chart because it is not profitable for some miners to run them when dash is at this low price. The difficulty will rise and miners will come back online if dash price rise later. Too many asics on btc and it will be just like dash mining. U yourself wouldnt want to go into mining today and if it can never break even... Look at current rates. With an S9, u can get 250 USD monthly if u have 0.05 USD electricity (a super cheap rate which most people dont have), and it cost 2,320 USD. That means 9+ months to break even, assuming rate remains the same, and this is without shipping and VAT cost yet. It will in general take 10-12 months with that and longer if u have higher electricity cost. U only get 6 months warranty, so, the other 3-6 months are at your own risk. This is for those who ordered the machines 2 months ago, and these people ordered because they saw the profit rate at around 1000 usd per month. Btc has halved but mining profit has gone down 4 times due to difficulty increase. Thats a major difference in juz 2 months. There are stronger machines coming out this year from canaan and avalon, and greater interest in mining due to media coverage. Thus, the difficulty spike should get worse. There are even idiots rushing to get into kodak's horrible mining contract.... due to media coverage and cryptomania. Look man, satire illustration - we can have 400,000 happy miners that make some profit by taking some risk or 800,000 grumpy angry miners who will never break even, be sad daily, and will regret the day they ever lay a hand on a miner. At least be honest about it, you mine and you're afraid you won't even get your ROI. Don't try to hide it , common, one look at your post history and it's pretty much telling the whole story. Bottom line as I won't discuss it again. Nobody gives a damn about the miners being happy or not happy. Nobody! If BTC would have been built as a PoS "you" wouldn't even exist. It's not the number of mining gear that is setting the balance. It's the price. If BTC goes down to 100, what are we going to do to keep you guys happy? Start with the Roman decimation , every 1 miner in 10 has to burn his gear? Btc has halved but mining profit has gone down 4 times due to difficulty increase. Thats a major difference in juz 2 months. Should we compare price /difficulty to January 2017? Dude, I never tried to hide. I wrote in other topics also that I am mining. Thank god I have alot more S9 and L3s lol and I bought all my S9s at the lower 1.4-1.6k price and I have been mining for awhile in the better months. Every miner gives a damn actually. And that includes new-wannabe-miners such as yourself. Nobody would want a miner that cant break even especially when the ROI looked so good just before u make that purchase. It is better u dont waste your money. Unfortunately, for those who ordered miners 2 months ago where mining profits are at an all time high, some may not break even if their machine breaks just after the 6month warranty period. If btc is built on POS, I would have more btc and no miners lol. No point comparing 2017 because bitcoin price mooned 15-20x in 2017. That is unlikely to happen this year and impossible to happen yearly....mkt cap would be insane then. If price goes to 100, everyone loses. More manufacturers wont be good, that would mean difficulty jumping more every 2 months because more miners arrive. Samsung will probably lose money when they come in here unless there is major increase in btc price suddenly. But this sort of venture is a small loss to them and they can take it. Btw, free market is silly here. And even YOUR OWN USA laws has catch limits on fishing because there is only so much that can be earned from fishing and overfishing kills all profits pretty quickly. Same for mining, there is only so much to be earned. The only difference is the lead time before shit-hits-the-fan is longer in fishing than mining. Same for OPEC where they need to cut/increase production in advance because new production takes like a year to come online. U dont want oil to go up and down by 100 dollars per barrel a year lol...and throw things into chaos. Thus, people plan in advance. |
|
|
|
I dont think it will take off because people arent willing to take the time to learn its unique method... They should have simplified it. |
|
|
|
Do the tokens get used up when u use it to mine?? How does it work |
|
|
|
I hope this is true. This means no new manufacturer Why would you not want a new manufacturer? U want more difficulty? |
|
|
|
Alright guys, any idea?
My HB were all XXXXXXXXX
I restarted my miner and up until now, they all went back to OOOOO
But they are not hashing anymore... Any Ideas?
Were they running at high temps? I suggest dont overclock. |
|
|
|
If it is real, the difficulty will skyrocket. That alone is bad for everyone because bitcoin price is no longer skyrocketing like last year. It looks more real than before.
The opportunity to buy miner from someone else other than this Bitmain scammer Jihan Wu is bad for everyone?!? Maybe it's bad for you, but it's best thing that happen for everyone else. I just hope this not turn to be just another scam, for the good of the Bitcoin. A war between asic manufacturers will not be good or bad for bitcoin. It will however, be horrible for miners LOL. It will not be so bad for manufacturers because it probably cost them under 1,000 usd to make a miner. Bitmain can sell the antminer A3 for 980 USD after all. I read a theory by someone in the forum that it is possible that in future, only asic manufactures will mine because their break even is their machine manufacturing cost which is in the few hundred USD. I understand that u do not like bitmain but this isnt any good. From wat I see, bitmain wins the war on SIA coin with the A3. If they want to, they can flood the market with S9s. They may even come up with a better chip. Who knows. And if they dont, more difficulty is just bad... My bet is that this is manufactured in Innosilicon facility and shares same components, like control board and the steel tube design.
The constant mystery curtain around this Dragonmint case is just something I can not understand, and also I still don't know why they decided to kick me out in the telegram chat group.
That makes sense. If true, I guess inno rather do it quietly and thus, thats why there is no acknowledgement. |
|
|
|
12.5 btc is released every 10mins. There is a LIMITED amount of btc that can be mined. More machines just means less btc per machine. So, it does not become more profitable to mine lol. It becomes less profitable.
And if there were MORE manufacturers, this means more machines are pre-ordered and more machines will be deployed after 2 months have passed......thats not good.
Right now, difficulty will continue to increase because pre-ordered machines from 2 months are coming online.
If Samsung were operational ans had taken orders 2 months ago, more would be deployed now.....thats not good.
I see you're still busy being a retard. Fees will supplant the block reward, so the halving won't have the disasterous effect you think it will. How did you even get involved in this space anyway, you seem too stupid to understand even a small fraction of it. He is not a retard, he just wants to protect his income. Screw free market, screw anti trust laws, forget about the whole purpose of Bitcoin. He even suggested that we should have an OPEC of miners. (check his threads in mining speculation) This is just greed beyond the levels the usually retards here can spawn. They finally realized it's a business for them, should they realize that a few years earlier, the market is all theirs. The timing? were they waiting for BTC to crash, the way it has now.? With all their resources, and this is the best they can do. Do they know something we don't. There was no timing! Chips are not made like Chips  It takes months from the start, planning till you actually have the wafers ready and build miners. I am not protecting my income. I am being realistic. It is either a certain amount of miners function and some profit can be made OR there are too many miners and 80-100% of miners dont break even. This happens in all oversupplied markets. If there is oversupply, new miners will just not break even. An OPEC for miners would make sense. And it is not just OPEC. There are many other organizations that do similar things to have a market make sense...on things like control catch rates in the sea to prevent overfishing from killing fish populations. This is despite fisherman wanting to catch more to earn more, etc. There is even a federation for maple syrup lol. And imo, organizations like OPEC are kinda needed to ensure that oil is properly supplied to the world. They need to calculate how much to invest in infrastructure because it take a year before any new oil actually comes online...etc. Check out dash mining now. There are too many ASICS and in general, no dash miner can profit. There is a 5k+ usd miner that makes 200-300 usd or a 1.4k miner that makes 25-100 usd a month. If price does not increase drastically, all miners will not not break even. There is no guarantee dash will rise. Dash difficulty has been DROPPING as it is https://www.coinwarz.com/difficulty-charts/dash-difficulty-chart because it is not profitable for some miners to run them when dash is at this low price. The difficulty will rise and miners will come back online if dash price rise later. Too many asics on btc and it will be just like dash mining. U yourself wouldnt want to go into mining today and if it can never break even... Look at current rates. With an S9, u can get 250 USD monthly if u have 0.05 USD electricity (a super cheap rate which most people dont have), and it cost 2,320 USD. That means 9+ months to break even, assuming rate remains the same, and this is without shipping and VAT cost yet. It will in general take 10-12 months with that and longer if u have higher electricity cost. U only get 6 months warranty, so, the other 3-6 months are at your own risk. This is for those who ordered the machines 2 months ago, and these people ordered because they saw the profit rate at around 1000 usd per month. Btc has halved but mining profit has gone down 4 times due to difficulty increase. Thats a major difference in juz 2 months. There are stronger machines coming out this year from canaan and avalon, and greater interest in mining due to media coverage. Thus, the difficulty spike should get worse. There are even idiots rushing to get into kodak's horrible mining contract.... due to media coverage and cryptomania. Look man, satire illustration - we can have 400,000 happy miners that make some profit by taking some risk or 800,000 grumpy angry miners who will never break even, be sad daily, and will regret the day they ever lay a hand on a miner. |
|
|
|
People checking mining profitability before a purchase is exactly how this correlation get established in practice. When they see that mining is profitable, they will buy mining equipment. But profitable is synonymous here with rising prices because the coins which miners receive simply start to cost more. So the higher the profitability the greater number of would-be miners are going to buy ASICs. But as you correctly pointed out yourself, more miners leads to higher difficulty. Thus the correlation between the price and mining difficulty is established.
That isnt anywhere near good enough to be called correlation because we dont know how many miners get shipped and there is a 2 month window before the machines arrive. Furthermore, there will be alottt more machines shipped when there are more manufacturers. Samsung may very well make a loss here but it isnt a big deal to them since they are huge. For example many new miners ordered units 1-2 months back when profits were farrr higher, around 5-8 times higher and now, when they get their machine, the proditability is a hell lot lower. Thus, there is no real correlation considering how huge the difference is.... A 2 month window explains why difficulty is lagging behind the price. Anyway, you can see on the chart below that difficulty has been following the price pretty close: Now that Bitcoin has gone down dramatically, we can see that difficulty still rises. This can be because miners are still adding mining rigs as there is definitely some lapse between buying a mining rig and actually receiving it, which you correctly pointed out. If the price doesn't rebound and flatlines from now on or even goes down further, we should see the mining difficulty go down too. If it continues to rise despite Bitcoin going down, then you would be right. So let's wait and see what happens in the next few months. The mining difficulty will not go down. Why would it go down? People will mine AS LONG AS they can make something out of it....even if it is 50 bucks a month? The only time it will go down is IF it becomes unprofitable to mine. But in that case, that would mean those with lower electeicity cost make like 50 bucks a month and those with higher electeicity cost switch it off. Both sides lose anyways. Miners can be mining for a loss for some time hoping that the price will rise in the future, especially if shutting down will cost them some bucks. But if the price markedly goes down as it has already done or even lower to $5,000 and below, mining will likely be no longer profitable for a lot of miners. They will start to leave, and that would mean decline in the hash rate because the rest can't arbitrarily increase their hashes. But if the hash rate goes down for a certain amount of time (about 2 weeks or so), the mining difficulty will get adjusted to match current hash rate. Therefore, if hash rate declines due to miners leaving, difficulty will necessarily go down too. Another question, though, is that they may have pretty high profit margins, so most of them can still remain profitable at present prices and no one is in fact going to shut down, thus the difficulty won't drop. As an aside, I'm not very familiar with Dash mining, but as far as I know it is a POS coin so we probably can't compare Dash mining with Bitcoin mining, at least not directly. Anyway, there can be a handful of factors affecting mining difficulty where price is just one of them, even though it is a decisive factor which should prevail over other factors in the long run. Wtf. Dude, dash mining is NOT PROFITABLE, in general. U could have bought an inno dash miner for like 5k and make 200-300 usd a month OR bought an antminer D3 that makes 25-100 usd a month for 1.4k USD. That is becaues there is only SO MUCH DASH to be mined and too many miners going for it. Dash is not a POS coin....
12.5 btc is released every 10mins. There is a LIMITED amount of btc that can be mined. More machines just means less btc per machine. So, it does not become more profitable to mine lol. It becomes less profitable.
And if there were MORE manufacturers, this means more machines are pre-ordered and more machines will be deployed after 2 months have passed......thats not good.
Right now, difficulty will continue to increase because pre-ordered machines from 2 months are coming online.
If Samsung were operational ans had taken orders 2 months ago, more would be deployed now.....thats not good.
I see you're still busy being a retard. Fees will supplant the block reward, so the halving won't have the disasterous effect you think it will. How did you even get involved in this space anyway, you seem too stupid to understand even a small fraction of it. U are the retard. There were BIG miners that went bust during the halving. Go google the news. KNC miner,etc, declared bankruptcy then. Fees are not adjusted to ensure that mining is profitable, there is only so much fees can do and bitcoin fees are too high already. Look at Dash mining, there are now too many miners and too little for each miner. Thus, alot of people will NOT get a return on investment. U dont seem to understand that there is a LIMITED amount of bitcoin that can be mined every 10 minutes. With your theory, then the whole world including governments should buy unlimited amount of ASICS because with more asics, we can mine more bitcoin and everyone will be rich. Somehow, things will be adjusted such that it is always profitable lol. That is not possible. There are only 12.5 bitcoin to be mined |
|
|
|
|
I hope no one did this and I guess nobody will dare do this now. It has plummeted 60% after all.
|
|
|
|
The gear is real.
Not sure if it works well.
Not sure if it breaks a lot.
Not sure what repair service will be like.
Not sure how fast they ship.
Not sure if bitmain will:
a) drop the s-9 down to 1200 to hurt sales of this.
b) drop sales of s-9 to 900 to kill sale of this.
c) release a 18 0r 20 0r 22 th miner that uses 1200 to 1300 watts and just match sales price of this.
I am sure my gpus still make money even if I can't buy anymore.
I am sure Feb 9 is today
I am sure March 21 is spring and Yoshi said he will sell me 4-5 miners to be shipped to me in early April. I can pay with cc or paypal as he will trust me.
I am sure I will check thread every day.
If it is real, the difficulty will skyrocket. That alone is bad for everyone because bitcoin price is no longer skyrocketing like last year. It looks more real than before. |
|
|
|
Control boards are missing entirely.
I think they should change the video to "Stacking of DragonMint 16T". Production of a miner is typically quite a bit more complex than placing a thing on a pallet.
This video from their twitter post, says, "some miners awaiting QA" in the video description. I wish I could zoom in on those stickers on the sides, to get a glimpse of what they say. But, and a big but (no pun intended), perhaps the boards and controllers are not connected for QA purposes. From Hangolin's Twitter post: https://youtu.be/93UzVnRe6t0Control boards are missing entirely.
I think they should change the video to "Stacking of DragonMint 16T". Production of a miner is typically quite a bit more complex than placing a thing on a pallet.
Yeah they suddenly think it is better idea to pack them to a pallet without any control board included, after I mentioned that it is a Innosilicon control board. Seriously, wtf.  Something in all this smells fishy. Also kicking me out of the telegram group chat seems fishy. Two possibilities 1 - They are real 2 - This is a video taken after sneaking into innosilicon or bitmain factory. Oddities and red flags: -If u look at the background, on the left pallet, the miners have the white rectangular sticker BUT they do not have that black sticker that we see on the main pallet miner. That means the ones we are looking at the main pallet miner have been modified? They didnt modify the ones on the left and top left pallet because they are still wrapped in plastics? - One of the miners that is still in its plastic wrapping, on left side pallet shows a smooth metal surface. I think the miners in that pallet are not modified as they are still wrapped in plastic. -The 2 previous halong mining videos were 720p and 1080p. Why is this one 360p resolution? -The yellow and black sticker looks like bitmains but I dont think it is difficult to make a sticker and paste it. Bitmains sticker is placed abit more lower, this one is placed higher. The smooth metal surface would be harder to do and I believe the accidental reveal online by Hagsfin showed that it could be innosilicon miner. Do not that this is speculation. I am not saying anyone's factory was broken into. The miner could very well be real. The video isnt exactly clear.   |
|
|
|
I hope this is true. This means no new manufacturer |
|
|
|
I find it odd that they are time after time avoiding my thorough question about the exactly similar design with Innosilicon hardware & software.
Usually when I ask this in the Telegram group chat, they just talk about different subject or post memes/emojis.
What makes you think you're so important that they should divulge trade secrets to a random stranger on a message board? Instead of everyone yelling scam why not just wait until March to see if the first batch of orders ship? The amount of time some of you are spending on this thread is nauseating. Copying Innosilicon hardware and software is now known as a 'trade secret'?  Lol. I'm not thinking that I'm a important person. Just for the sake of people who have invested in this a lot of money, I would like things to be as transparent as with any other manufacturer company. None of them are innocent. As the story goes,,, Innosilicon 'lifted' their IC technology from a Swiss company that was forced into bankruptcy. I am not sure how true this story is and the reader will need to do their own due dilligence. A good place to start may be Innosilicons rebuttal of these accusations. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1117069.0In a country with little protections on intellectual property rights, this is not stealing, but a savvy business practice. I am not an Inno customer but my gut tells me that Inno did didnt steal it. Why? Because they did invent other machines that mine other algorithms. Since they can do that, it seems unlikely that they stole that one tech for that one machine. This is just pure speculation though. |
|
|
|
PROBLEM SOLVED. I WAS ABLE TO WITHDRAW MY BTC. IT WAS SOME ISSUE WITH THE CONFIRMATION OF ADDRESS. I WILL SAY THIS EXCHANGE IS QUITE GOOD. I AM JUST A HOLDER. I WISH I KNEW HOW TO TRADE WELL. GOOD LUCK TO ALL OF YOU.
Hi,
Its been 1 week my IDR withdrawal doesn't arrive on my bank account.
I've been contacting customer service by email, but don't get any response till now.
Wait for your respond,
Sonny rib hartantha.
My experience with quoine is that sometimes withdrawal is slow but they will allow u to withdraw. I think it is because of the way they store things in cold wallet. The bad news is that no one likes slowness. The good news is that they dont seem to get hacked. |
|
|
|
It's so pleasant to hear it! Now, when BTC price is rising, SAMSUNG will make mass production of miners which mean, that they will be cheaper, so it would even more profitable to mine LOL. 12.5 btc is released every 10mins. There is a LIMITED amount of btc that can be mined. More machines just means less btc per machine. So, it does not become more profitable to mine lol. It becomes less profitable. And if there were MORE manufacturers, this means more machines are pre-ordered and more machines will be deployed after 2 months have passed......thats not good. Right now, difficulty will continue to increase because pre-ordered machines from 2 months are coming online. If Samsung were operational ans had taken orders 2 months ago, more would be deployed now.....thats not good. |
|
|
|
People checking mining profitability before a purchase is exactly how this correlation get established in practice. When they see that mining is profitable, they will buy mining equipment. But profitable is synonymous here with rising prices because the coins which miners receive simply start to cost more. So the higher the profitability the greater number of would-be miners are going to buy ASICs. But as you correctly pointed out yourself, more miners leads to higher difficulty. Thus the correlation between the price and mining difficulty is established.
That isnt anywhere near good enough to be called correlation because we dont know how many miners get shipped and there is a 2 month window before the machines arrive. Furthermore, there will be alottt more machines shipped when there are more manufacturers. Samsung may very well make a loss here but it isnt a big deal to them since they are huge. For example many new miners ordered units 1-2 months back when profits were farrr higher, around 5-8 times higher and now, when they get their machine, the proditability is a hell lot lower. Thus, there is no real correlation considering how huge the difference is.... A 2 month window explains why difficulty is lagging behind the price. Anyway, you can see on the chart below that difficulty has been following the price pretty close:  Now that Bitcoin has gone down dramatically, we can see that difficulty still rises. This can be because miners are still adding mining rigs as there is definitely some lapse between buying a mining rig and actually receiving it, which you correctly pointed out. If the price doesn't rebound and flatlines from now on or even goes down further, we should see the mining difficulty go down too. If it continues to rise despite Bitcoin going down, then you would be right. So let's wait and see what happens in the next few months. The mining difficulty will not go down. Why would it go down? People will mine AS LONG AS they can make something out of it....even if it is 50 bucks a month? The only time it will go down is IF it becomes unprofitable to mine. But in that case, that would mean those with lower electeicity cost make like 50 bucks a month and those with higher electeicity cost switch it off. Both sides lose anyways. Dont believe me? Check out dash mining. Difficulty has gone down because it was unprofitable to mime for higher electricity cost users. Lower electricity cost users are making like 50 bucks a month and thus, may never break even. If it becomes more profitable, the other D3 miners that have shut down will be brought online, increasing the difficulty again. Alot of people wont break even either way. And yeah those running the innosilicon more efficient dash miner will always make money but the returns are small for the price they paid.....it will take very long to break even, if even possible....like 20 months last i calculated. |
|
|
|
|
It wont fall when new more powerful miners are coming in. And samsung wants in also...
|
|
|
|
That's because difficulty skyrocketed and manufacturers doubled their prices while bitcoin went the opposite direction and took a nosedive straight to the bottom! A perfect storm against miners.
Yep, and I mentioned that is the problem. Do not assume that price will go up 10 times in a year like it did last year.... Very unlikely this year. The major pop has occurred. |
|
|
|
|
A 60% drop isnt small guys. There is no gurantee it will go back up. It is downtrending now technically speaking.
|
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
