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I'd say it is same issue with Casper:
Decentral:
You need a trustless clrearing system / notary in between - some say that 'could work' with some betting design....
Central: Easy but open to hackers.
Think of the actual process in trading as is:
- Client (has ccy1) & wants to change it to ccy2
- Client needs to deposit (maybe partial) ccy1 first at market maker's account (market maker that could offer ccy2 vs ccy1)
- Market maker activates client to trade since now there is a credit limit = reduced counter party risk to market maker
- Client hits market maker (pays a fee for that service incl settlemet cost)
- Market maker might send real time confirmation notice to client (last chance to cancel?)
- Settlement is initiated by market maker (or escrow service) - atomic
How can you put some code around all that in a decentral way ?
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Pardon. Reading the header with SWAP and then parsing the story I finally understand you try to achieve just an "easy" crypto ccy SPOT trade (Even more correct a same day forward) by executing one of the "easiest" smart contract and already struggle with that? Why not trying some betting stuff? (Sorry, just caspering around a bit  ) I really want to know and see such easy stuff working before more complex things should be developed, savely.... How about some 2factor like mechano? |
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Tone Vays at his best! Watch that starting at about 32 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmNKd3w1k6Qi wonder if first banks really embrace ETH and if fails then call the SEC for SCAM ! Anybody good in that game-theory -where is Nash equilibrium in that? |
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But the poor though doesn't have Internet, mobile phones and laptops to make some use out of bitcoin.
Statistics are showing that the poor are accessing the internet mostly on their phones now. They can purchase prepaid smartphones now for 50-100. I volunteer at a homeless shelter and the majority of people transitioning into housing with minimum wage jobs get all of their internet access through their phone. If you google it you can see that those making under 30k a year are twice as likely to use their phone for banking, locating jobs, and other necessities. Also, I noticed that the people at the homeless/transitional housing shelter are quite good with their phones and know what they are doing. It will be possible for the poor to access and understand Bitcoin. I am into Bitcoin #1 for the possibilities for banking the unbanked all over the world - this is due to my 20 years of working with the poor. I own my right to be idealistic  Finally some bright lights out there.... I live in middle-EU and we see now lots refugees coming in - many have mobiles. So next poor guy I see gets a wallet & some statoshis :-) |
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at first some would think to dismiss price volatility in the OP's list, because it is not a problem for merchants, as they can lock-in prices if they want to swap for fiat.
but the price volatility affects the customers who have to constantly decide, is it now a bargain to use 3yo old bitcoins that have quadrupled in price, or hold them for another 'possible' jump in value.
most bitcoiners have not hoarded for 3 years so they are still waiting for their big payday. thus while prices are still moving like crazy, people are less likely to spend, as they are aprehensive to spend at a possible loss that 'may' turn into huge gains in the near future. and as a side effect merchants dont see as much real usage and think its not worth the hassle implementing for such low usage
I agree with the consumer aspect. I see that even when I'm in bitcoin since 2014 I still wonder every time I convert/use my btc "is it the good time, am I not going to lose money comparing to if I wait a month?" and hesitate a lot. But how can merchants do that? You can accept btc as a payment and conclude a deal for a constant price? it must be a low one no? I guess that's the reason why we will see more middle man solutions hiding more or less bitcoin underneath ... |
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Just some potential show-stoppers here:
Too less known & distributed yet
Too techy
Market risks - high volatility
Operational risks - safe ?
Legal risks
Too less pressure (FIAT, Paypal,... still fine) / no business case
Setup costs
Do not know payments are not revertible / would save a lot of hunting costs
KYC...
Some other ideas and / or contra arguments?
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Bitcoin decentralizes the trust and decentralizes the creation of money,
but it was never intended to redistribute wealth.
I can agree if 'intended' means = not written down. I came to this because A: He called me up B: I was reading between the lines C: Does not matter Find consensus herein.... |
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But the poor though doesn't have Internet, mobile phones and laptops to make some use out of bitcoin.
The first guy at lowest level in a small village, feeling really responsible for his folks due to skin in the game - might have that - that's your man. |
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If he does still have the access to those 1 million BTC it would be very interesting... If he airdrops it that would be even greater, however the price will drop since the poor people will be looking to by food/shelter etc., and they'll try to dump the coins as fast as possible  Price - read upthread. Does that formulars down hold ? Distribute Information = INTERNET Distribute Money = BITCOIN Distribute Weatlh = work(INTERNET, BITCOIN) Fun = ? |
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Poverty are not eliminated by throwing money at the problem. I always come back to the saying.... If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day.. if you teach him how
to fish, you feed him for life. I think Satoshi's goal with this, might have been to give people the tool, to reduce poverty. In most countries people are to poor to open
bank accounts... banks are simply not interested in doing business with poor people. Bitcoin enable people to open their own bank accounts for free and it has virtually
zero fees. This will open doors for them, that was previously shut for them or might have been too expensive.
I don't see how Bitcoin itself would be a tool to reduce poverty? I mean, you'd need a pretty big initial investment to be profitable mining and you won't get any free bitcoins anywhere. In terms of 'do work' - I fully agree (read upthread) I also agree in terms of give away the pure fish / money - that never helps isolated. Further I also agree, that there is minimum required: smartphone... But let's think in more dimensions - that's what internet and Bitcoin are to me - they now get a chance to finally do some learning & work (due to information & money). This new stufff might be the ONLY infrastructure they will ever have and let them do work & come out of the sh..t. |
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Anything has it's limit and by saying that, BTCitcoin is no exception to that as well so there's a point where it could be classified as fragile too but the chances of it to happen is a lot lesser than fiat. One of the things that could make BTCitcoin fragile is it's users and the way they decide to do with BTCitcoin so aside from this yes, BTCitcoin could somehow be anti fragile if those risks are eliminated.
It could be interesting to classify gold first - and bitcoin comes more or less the same - if its tech stuff is all solvable. |
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Ok, let's say that one day Satoshi comes back. There's unsisputale proof that this time it's truly him and that he's in possession of hundreds of millions in BTC. What would be the criteria to airdrop bitcoins to the poor? Among the millions of people living in poverty, what would be the effect of this? I think it'd be a drop in the ocean in terms of helping solve poverty and it'd likely even damage bitcoin as all of a sudden there would be a ton of people looking to sell bitcoins. Another interesting concept would be the one described in this video though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6gxpWPMpwsThanks, have never seen before. This will end up in giving a single winner all ? Then I also would expect a big price drop.... It's open to question. After all, it's just a concept. With the buzz it'd create it sounds rather positive for bitcoin. Ok - could we agree on those: Doing the buzz of that video - big hype. But than - 1% to the winner + 99% airdrop to the poor Uuups - sorry winner - but we win all ! |
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Ok, let's say that one day Satoshi comes back. There's unsisputale proof that this time it's truly him and that he's in possession of hundreds of millions in BTC. What would be the criteria to airdrop bitcoins to the poor? Among the millions of people living in poverty, what would be the effect of this? I think it'd be a drop in the ocean in terms of helping solve poverty and it'd likely even damage bitcoin as all of a sudden there would be a ton of people looking to sell bitcoins. Another interesting concept would be the one described in this video though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6gxpWPMpwsThanks, have never seen before. This will end up in giving a single winner all ? Then I also would expect a big price drop.... |
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That is of course great for someone to say who doesn't have over 500k Bitcoins or probably even much at stake. Lets look at the facts shall we? You drop 500+k Bitcoins on the poor then my last few years investing taking risks and saving will be for nothing because the price will be destroyed for both us and the poor.
I am not saying don't help the poor because they need it but how about many give some profits and give the poor the tools to help themselves. The wealth of Bitcoin is obviously in fewer hands than preferable but that is the way of the world, the smart will always end up with more because a lot of the time they work for it.
I'm not thinking of a very plump dump. And yes I was educated same - first work - than pleasure - but I live in a rich env. But think of the very poorest first (extrem thinking is good). They mostly do not have any 'work' - and normally very poor currency & economic env. But now with access to internet, they can get a 'start - up' investment for their local (and also global) economy and have a more stable currency than the local one -> I do not think all is cashed out at once, but rather it will be used as money and you'll see the opposite. So ideally it should be donated to a handful of regional tribe chaps in order to initiate local usage - not cash out (do not expect an exchange as well). It doesn't matter what you're thinking but matters what will happen. If possible they will dump the Bitcoins into oblivion, why? Because they could not care less about it all they want is food/water etc. I'm sorry to burst your slightly delusional bubble but it is never going to create a stable currency because the currency is manipulated to begin with added to the frenzy of trying to dump to get the foods to survive it will be crazy and the opposite to stable pal. Again of course they will cash out immediately it would be naive to think any different. Decentralized but donated to the few? That statement is to contradicting as it is clearly centralizing it into a few hands instead of the many. Corruption is extreme in the countries you speak of in case you never knew. Partly agreed. There was a good point made upthread about education, that should be part of the airdrop as well. But that comes partly along due installing a wallet. So the BTC is the incentive here. Again - I do not expect bank accounts for cashing out here in masses. And the lowest level chaps normally feel rather responsible for their own people to help survive first, later corruption might come into place. |
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so they can cash out and crash the price? i dont think so
How could they cash out, they are far from having a bank account. Only thing they really need is a smart phone + wallet. And I hear even the poor just have that. |
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It always amazes me how people give away other people's money so easily.
It's the give a person a fish vs teaching them to fish argument.
Very good bringing up that fish here! I remember some part in the Bible where Jesus gave us some fish for free (correct me if I'm wrong). But that was only more the hook to get us to believe (worked not bad). So turn that into Satoshi & Bitcoin and you need no more help... It ended with execution... Sure - Jesus 'went' away - and suprisingly came back, convincing the skeptic ... |
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nah, can't see him do such a thing assuming he still has access to his coins. i also wouldn't do it. i hope at some point he can nicely enjoy the value of his coins with some hot girls.  hihi - if those girls are belonging to the poorest and get children & wallets - go ahead! |
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