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601  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What are the biggest threats to Bitcoin? on: May 13, 2014, 07:02:05 AM
The biggest threat to Bitcoin?

The high percentage of scumbags involved. More than half the exchanges have gone bust, most through "take the money and run" operators. The "Bitcoin stock exchanges" had few, if any, real companies that did anything behind them. The "Bitcoin Ponzis" were even worse. Most of the ASIC system vendors can't reliably deliver ordered products. Some of the Bitcoin Foundation leaders turned out to be crooks.

This is pathetic. It doesn't seem to be getting better, either. Look at the crowd behind Sunlot.
602  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How many Bitcoiners are there? on: May 12, 2014, 07:25:09 AM
How many wallets have at least 0.01 BTC? It's probably reasonable to only count those.
603  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: SaveGox.com on: May 12, 2014, 07:10:06 AM
I'm more interested in the audit being done by the trustee appointed by the Tokyo District Court. I doubt the Sunlot deal will go anywhere until that happens.
604  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: SaveGox.com on: May 10, 2014, 10:14:34 PM
Didnt Madoff took a lot of money out? Smiley
Yes, he did. It was taken away from him and given back to investors. Here's the auction of all his personal stuff. Here's the auction of his Manhattan penthouse. The auction of his boat.  You get the idea. Madoff himself is in Federal prison for the rest of his life.
605  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: SaveGox.com on: May 10, 2014, 03:19:52 AM
There is also the question of what should count as the claim of a client against MtGOX:  (1) the account balance he had at some point before the final shutdown (when, exactly?) according to MtGOX's internal ledgers, or (2) the total amount he deposited, minus the total amount he withdrew?   It is known which approach the liquidators will follow?
Approach (2) is the standard in US law. This was a big deal in the Madoff case, because there were lots of Madoff customers with huge account balances representing Madoff trades that never happened. But Madoff customers are being paid off based on actual deposits minus withdrawals, ignoring fictitious gains.

(There's some litigation over this in the Madoff case because the scam went on for 20 years, and some long-time Madoff customers want adjustments for US dollar inflation over the years. But that's not a big issue with Mt. Gox.)
606  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Would it still be profitable if bitcoin went down to $1 a bitcoin? on: May 09, 2014, 05:35:55 PM
"Deep pocket players" might declare bankruptcy, but they will last longer than you.
Not necessarily. They may be leveraged, operating on borrowed money.
607  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: WTF is going on with mining? on: May 09, 2014, 05:34:15 PM
So here's my tought:
...
After considering it for a while,it appears to me that there are 2 factors allowing such a decline in profitability:
- ASIC manufacturers are overpricing their products
- Bitcoin is undervalued
You're missing the biggest factor - the number of Bitcoins mined per week is constant, no matter how many miners there are. All miners compete for a Bitcoin pool of fixed size.

Now go look at the difficulty graph. 
608  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Mt Gox's new office on: May 08, 2014, 07:03:06 PM
Yea... like I said, a lot of damage can be done jumping around from office to office. Hopefully this isn't an indication of them planning to take advantage of their clientele. Does anyone have an update on what's going on lately?
Yes. Mt. Gox went bankrupt. They're in liquidation. Karpeles is out. A court appointed bankruptcy trustee is in charge.  There are hundreds of news stories and posts about this.

For what it's worth, the bankruptcy trustee's office is the old Mt. Gox location, not in the virtual office.
609  Economy / Speculation / Re: Joint statement by 5 chinese exchanges (they will keep operating) on: May 08, 2014, 06:07:04 AM
You can legally own bitcoin.  You can legally obtain bitcoin in exchange for goods and services.  You don't need to buy bitcoin with dollars.  That's how money is supposed to work.

You can legally own dollars.   You can legally obtain dollars in exchange for goods and services.  You don't need to buy dollars with bitcoin.  That's how money is supposed to work.
That's not a bad description of China's exchange controls. If you're in  China, and you want to sell goods for dollars, that's fine with the PBOC. You can then exchange your dollars for yuan, if you so desire. That's also fine with the PBOC. If you have yuan in China, and you want to buy something from outside China with yuan, you can do that; import duties may apply. The receiving party can then buy things from China in yuan. They may be able to convert yuan to dollars in Hong Kong.

The key point is that this is tied to goods shipments. China encourages exports, and isn't that hostile to imports. Those are OK. Pure money transactions are subject to capital controls. Part of the purpose of this is to favor doing real business in goods over pure financial transactions.
610  Economy / Economics / Re: How much control does the President truly have over the economy? on: May 06, 2014, 05:35:22 AM
Bush really isn't to blame for the downturn since it was third-party forces outside of his control. His biggest blunder with the economy was the appearance of his mishandling, but he's not really to blame.
The big crash of 2008 could have been avoided at the cost of a smaller crash about two years earlier. Without some of the Bush-era stimulus policies, there would have been a crash in housing several years earlier, but it would have been about the size of the savings and loan debacle of the 1980s. There was a mindset, fully endorsed by Alan Greenspan at the Fed, that rising house prices were a good thing and a source of wealth. Greenspan really didn't believe that someday there had to be a crash in housing. ("Houses can only go up!". Wrong.)

A big problem was the earlier elimination of Glass-Stegall, the law which kept commercial banks from getting into the stock market. While brokerages were separate from banking, a Wall Street crash didn't take down the banking system. That separation was put into place in 1933 because of the 1929 crash. It was repealed in 1999. Trouble soon followed.
611  Economy / Speculation / Re: I've ALSO Given Up on: May 06, 2014, 05:19:55 AM
I am NOT a trader/investor at all. I have been trying to master the finance language the last few months, but I'm really just a mech. engineer who likes technology.
The Bitcoin world needs suckers like you. This is a zero-sum game; for every winner, there is a loser.
612  Economy / Economics / Re: Hypothetically, if a large enough gold deposit was found, could it cause economi on: May 06, 2014, 05:17:00 AM
When the Spanish conquistadors invaded Mexico and Central and South America, they brought home a great quantity of gold. The amount of gold they brought back home was enough to cause inflation back home.
That's an excellent point, and one few people know.

All that gold mining caused inflation. But inflation wasn't understood back then. They thought gold was wealth. So huge efforts were put into gold-mining projects. Remember, this was in an era before cheap transport. Most transactions were local. Most long-distance shipping was for luxuries - silks, spices, gold, jewels, and such. So the country was expending resources developing colonies and gold mining, and becoming poorer by doing so.

Today, despite much noise from the "gold bugs", gold is just a commodity. Its price in dollars has varied over a factor of 6 in the last 20 years without affecting much.
613  Economy / Speculation / Re: Chinese bitcoin exchanges have pulled out of the Bitcoin conference in Beijing on: May 06, 2014, 05:03:50 AM

Good points YipYip - I too have wondered whether moving to a "Special Administrative Region" would be a fix.

Would just have to send:

CNY/RMB to own HK bank account...
That's illegal for mainland China residents.

Something that so many Bitcoin fanatics don't get: the use of Bitcoin in China wasn't because people wanted Bitcoins. It was because they wanted dollars, euros, or yen, outside China's exchange controls. Bitcoin was, briefly, an easy and legal way to do that.  That's over.

614  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Mt.Gox Multi-plaintiff Suit on: May 04, 2014, 08:15:19 PM
Was it really so that according to the TOS of Mt.Gox, the instant I deposit my BTC to them, it becomes their "assets" that they "owe" me, instead of "customer funds" that they must "safeguard" for me?

If this question is resolved in the only sane manner that it can be ("customer funds" unless EXPLICITLY otherwise stated), it also becomes clear why the contents of the safety deposit boxes are not auctioned when a bank becomes bankrupt, and your car is not sold if you were having it painted when the painting shop goes broke. Instead, you property is returned.

Anyone?
It's a tough question. If Mt. Gox had been a licensed payment service under the Payment Services Act in Japan, then the money belongs to the customers, and if it "disappears", that's theft.  But Mt. Gox wasn't registered, and the Japan Financial Services Agency declined to claim jurisdiction.

If Mt. Gox had been a bank, then they would have been covered under the Japan Deposit Insurance Company policy up to Y10 million. But Mt. Gox wasn't a bank; they don't get that coverage.

I've seen legal opinions both ways on this. This matters; it determines whether Karpeles goes to jail, as well as the order of priority of creditors.

615  Economy / Speculation / Re: I give up on: May 04, 2014, 05:33:26 AM
At least wait till the Winklevoss Bitcoin ETF has floated on the stock exchange (probably around the end of the year / early next year).
That's backwards. The Winkelvoss Bitcoin ETF is a dump, not a buy. They bought the Bitcoins a long time ago. The ETF is a way to sell them.
616  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: URGENT: drop MTGOX class action lawyers! contact WSJ about their lies URGENT! on: May 03, 2014, 06:24:18 PM
Bit_Happy sez:
Quote
How come it "feels" like this ridiculous plan will be approved?
Why is there no other highly visible option?
Because it is part of their public relations strategy--to present this as a fait accompli--a "done deal".

There are always options visible, and perhaps even the biggest one is hiding in plain sight.
The biggest one is simply that the liquidation runs its course. Mt. Gox gets investigated. Bank records are checked to find out where the missing cash went. Enough info comes out to implicate Karpeles. Mark Karpeles gets arrested. The standard Tokyo Metropolitan Police 23-day interrogation makes Karpeles tell where he hid the assets. Karpeles goes to jail for many years. Most of the assets are recovered.

The Sunlot proposal looks like a desperate attempt to gain control of the investigation and prevent that from happening.
617  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: URGENT: drop MTGOX class action lawyers! contact WSJ about their lies URGENT! on: May 03, 2014, 06:47:14 AM
Is there a deliberate attempt here to troll the forums to prevent discussion of the merits (or lack thereof) of the proposed Sunlot deal?
618  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is Bitcoin just a stepping stone to something better? on: May 01, 2014, 09:02:15 PM
More and more, Bitcoin looks like a Pink Sheet stock. Trading continues, even though there's no asset value behind it.

The fundamental problem with Bitcoin is that unidirectional money transfers to remote anonymous parties are the con man's dream. Most "Bitcoin enterpreneurs" seem to be con men. Over half the Bitcoin exchanges have gone bust, even though that should be a low-risk business. Most of the sellers of mining hardware seem to be unable to reliably make, sell, and deliver ordered hardware. The "Bitcoin stock markets" are a joke, and the "Bitcoin Ponzis" are just embarassing.

Bitcoin has become the clown car of money because of all this.

The underlying technology isn't bad. We're about 2/3 of the way there to something that might work. The first generation of crypto-currency was Chaum's DigiCash in the early 1990s. This had protection against double-spending, like Bitcoin, but it relied on a centralized ledger system. Bitcoin is basically DigiCash with a distributed ledger, the block chain. DigiCash failed because of Cham's differences with his backers, and because it was too early. 

With Bitcoin, you still have to trust the receiving party when you order something. From recent experience, that doesn't work. The protocol could in theory be extended to support escrow and arbitration, but it hasn't been.  That's the remaining 1/3 of the problem.

What we have now is too slimeball-friendly.
619  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: URGENT: drop MTGOX class action lawyers! contact WSJ about their lies URGENT! on: April 30, 2014, 07:31:04 PM
Actually, Sunlot's offer is not economically rational unless they have some kind of inside knowledge that the still missing 650,000 bitcoins are very likely to be soon recovered.
That's exactly it.

1. The Sunlot deal gives them 84% of any missing assets that turn up later.
2. They're in talks with Karpeles.
3. The original founders of Mt. Gox are involved.

So they probably do know where the missing assets are.

This deal needs to be put on hold until the bankruptcy trustee and the Tokyo police have had more time to find the money.  The trustee has only had a week of being in charge at this point.
620  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If we start including bitcoin miners in houses as amenities. on: April 30, 2014, 06:28:06 PM
Some people haven't been reading the difficulty graph.
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