I really do not like this comparison , because it ignored the basic truth which use AM today's product to compare with some 6 months later products. I had post before, AM is company manufacture in China, you should understand that the cost of producing electronic products is much much lower than anywhere else in the world also that the possibility to speed put those products into mass production. As FriedCat announced it will delivery better products in Oct this year and it will be much better than anything else. You are trying to believe a new entry with sample products has more capability than current leader? Anyone has the knowledge in integrated circuit manufacturing will know that the difference between 110NM standards and 28NM standards isn't technology difference, it different in the production equipment which involved to produce it. You are trying to see that Chinese integrated circuit manufacturing are not capable to produce chips at 28NM standard? I think this totally nonsense, that IPOD /IPHONE are manufactured in the same province where AM operated. [/quote] Another person, not paying attention. I never said anything like what you're claiming. I pointed out that by the end of the year there will be a lot more competition and showed how that will compare to AMs current hardware. The point of that was to show that AM will no longer be able to sell 2 Mh/s for 1 USD once that competition is available because the competition will be offering 50 Mh/s for the same price. Nobody in their right mind would buy AM hardware under such circumstances. [/quote] Of course, I know what you mean , you trying to say that AM would not change its price and its products standards? The old blade is no more selling on the market, the only thing will make you assumption useful , is waiting util the new blade come out. since before new blade come out , we do not know what will the spec be. It may be better than KNC ? if it does better than KNC , then the share price of AM will go up again at that time. You can't post assumption like this if you did not know what exactly spec about the new blade. It will caused missing lead investors, and seems not fair to AM. |
|
|
|
You're missing the part where I think they will have better hardware, and while it will have to be priced better, it will also be still competitive. The selling of older hardware is just icing on the cake.
ASICMINER has a history of shipping and no false promises.
Also, I renew my scepticism of KNC having access to 28nm fabs.
I'm not missing that part at all. So what if they have new hardware? Please explain what effect you think such new hardware will have. The only effect I see it having is to reduce the power consumption, causing a slight increase in dividends due to less income being spent on power. That slight increase will not be enough to offset the decrease from hardware sales or network share. KNC is Sweden company ,AM is Chinese company~~~ The possibility of KNC to turning its products into mass production is far below than AM as will as the cost associating to produce its product. To rent a date center in China is much much cheaper than to rent a date center in Sweden. Someone think KNC is has super technology advance than AM, 28NM standards isn't a superior technology, I think a lot number of manufactures in China is capable to producing electronic products at this standards. AM is operated in the same province where IPOD/IPHONE been manufactured, this province is famous to manufacturing electronic products in China. about mining, the electric cost is far lower than European countries, this mean AM can mining at a cost without losing ,but others may loss. |
|
|
|
This drives price down to 50 USD per btc so your AM selling at 4 BTC a share or 3 BTC a share lost value if you want to convert it to USD.
if you want to convert it to USD.  For myself , I only invested some potion of my asset into BTC, I like to joint this revolution concept.. I do not willing to trade out my BTC to USD at anytime...thuse I am ignored the price fluctuation of BTC.. I bought all my BTC around 140 USD...it looks like no way to be sell it without loss in near future, but I am glad I invested my BTC in AM, because increase of AM's price compensating all lose caused by BTC price decrease. |
|
|
|
It's my opinion that a lot of investors simply don't understand how mining works. If they did, then they would understand that AM hardware and shares are vastly overpriced.
Just like a lot of people paying silly money for mining bonds have found out, AM investors will come to the same realisation that share prices are currently way overpriced.
LISTEN AND LISTEN CAREFULLY. The only reason why AM is able to charge such outrageous prices is because they've had no competition. By the end of the year, there will be plenty of competition. Here's a quick comparison:
AM Block Erupter Blade
10 Gh/s
50 BTC = 5,000 USD @ 100 USD/BTC
2 Mh/s per USD
KNC Jupiter
350 Gh/s
7,000 USD @ 100 USD/BTC
50 Mh/s per USD
It should be blatantly obvious to anyone with half a brain that there's going to be a lot less income from hardware sales due to competition. That same competition will also decrease AM's share of the network hash rate.
AM share holders are going to get hit by a good dose of reality in the coming months. Perhaps then they will stop listening to idiots trying to flog them overpriced stuff and do the maths themselves.
Where can I get a KNC Jupiter? I want to start mining with it tomorrow. I have the cash right now. Perhaps you should have paid attention to the part where I said: The only reason why AM is able to charge such outrageous prices is because they've had no competition. By the end of the year, there will be plenty of competition. No, I couldn't be arsed to pay attention to what you said when you compared old ASICMINER hardware (early 2013) with vaporware, scheduled to be launched at end of year. Apples and ... not even oranges. ASICMINER priced their stuff to sell. And it has. That is perfectly normal business. Its not outrageous prices because if it was, nobody would have bought the things. Think before you type. Outrageous is announcing vaporware many months in advance and watching gullible people flock to pre-order it because the specs are way ahead of today's standards. Of course stuff delivered in 6 months time will be much much better. That goes without saying. That's if they deliver. At least ASICMINER have a history of delivering stuff, and maintaining a high % of the total network hashing power. Competition is to be expected because its a profitable business. Whether the competition can live with the team first to market remains to be seen. No need to cry and waffle on about irrelevancies because I stated a fact. AM hardware has been vastly overpriced due to not having any competition. With competition available it won't be able to charge such outrageous prices. And seriously, if you think 2 BTC for a USB miner is not insane, then you are insane. Who cares if AM are bringing out 2nd generation miners. If they want to sell such hardware, it'll also have to be priced competitively, so closer to 50 Mh/s per USD than 2 Mh/s per USD. For the mining operation, all those new chips will do is decrease the power consumption, which should cause a very slight increase in dividends due to lower power costs. It won't be anywhere near enough to offset the decrease in income from hardware sales, nor the decrease in income due to a decrease in the share of the network hash rate. Over the next few months, you'll see a decline in AM dividends and anyone claiming otherwise is talking out their arse in order to try and inflate the share price even further. The price of AM also determine by its supply, those limited supply in market ,also make it valuable than anything else. |
|
|
|
...
One of the purposes behind launching DMS was to allow the market to define a price for PMBs. I'm in no way surprised that value currently lies below what PMBs were previously selling for - and undoubtedly some speculators will have been burned by it (Investors less so - as they bought for the dividends and will continue to receive them. If they bought too high then their loss will be a gradual one as it would have been anyway).
Speculators were not my intended target (I am, after all, one myself). My target was people who bought an over-priced pre-order then thought to shift the risk/loss to investors AND get paid for doing so. It most definitely WAS one of my goals to make it a lot harder for anyone to sell horribly over-priced PMBs in the future - a goal I know you agree with and one which I think DMS will go a long way towards achieving. In part that goal is achieved simply by having DMS.MINING for sale cheaply - but it's also delivered on by forcing people to think a bit more about what PMBs are actually likely to pay out in various scenarios.
...
Yes, This guy also destroyed those who bought those over price PMBs contracts before he issued his PMBs, and if he did not issue this asset , unless those poor contracts holders were have chance to sold its contracts to someone else at small loss. If Deprived hadn't issued DMS, holders of other PMBs may have sold their assets for more than they can now, but in the end the price would've still followed the inverse of the difficulty, which is down. Right now all that has happened is that PMBs dropped a bit more quickly in price, but the price would've gone down the same amount either way, because the dividend determines what the right price is. It is true, fell sad for those PMBs holders. |
|
|
|
It's my opinion that a lot of investors simply don't understand how mining works. If they did, then they would understand that AM hardware and shares are vastly overpriced.
Just like a lot of people paying silly money for mining bonds have found out, AM investors will come to the same realisation that share prices are currently way overpriced.
LISTEN AND LISTEN CAREFULLY. The only reason why AM is able to charge such outrageous prices is because they've had no competition. By the end of the year, there will be plenty of competition. Here's a quick comparison:
AM Block Erupter Blade
10 Gh/s
50 BTC = 5,000 USD @ 100 USD/BTC
2 Mh/s per USD
KNC Jupiter
350 Gh/s
7,000 USD @ 100 USD/BTC
50 Mh/s per USD
It should be blatantly obvious to anyone with half a brain that there's going to be a lot less income from hardware sales due to competition. That same competition will also decrease AM's share of the network hash rate.
AM share holders are going to get hit by a good dose of reality in the coming months. Perhaps then they will stop listening to idiots trying to flog them overpriced stuff and do the maths themselves.
I really do not like this comparison , because it ignored the basic truth which use AM today's product to compare with some 6 months later products. I had post before, AM is company manufacture in China, you should understand that the cost of producing electronic products is much much lower than anywhere else in the world also that the possibility to speed put those products into mass production. As FriedCat announced it will delivery better products in Oct this year and it will be much better than anything else. You are trying to believe a new entry with sample products has more capability than current leader? Anyone has the knowledge in integrated circuit manufacturing will know that the difference between 110NM standards and 28NM standards isn't technology difference, it different in the production equipment which involved to produce it. You are trying to see that Chinese integrated circuit manufacturing are not capable to produce chips at 28NM standard? I think this totally nonsense, that IPOD /IPHONE are manufactured in the same province where AM operated. |
|
|
|
Could someone please explain something simple to me....I don't get the share/dividend pricing.
Please correct where I'm wrong:
I pay BTC2.5 or BTC3 a share and I will get BTC0.03 in dividends week?
If so if my math is correct it will take me a year and a half to break even if the share price remains at ~BTC0.03? Or is it possible the share price will hit BTC0.5?
Is this a long term investment plan and am I being too short sighted?
Thanks!
Tell me any investment you get 1% intrest per week ! Why has a share to break even? You can sell it anytime and maybe even higher that 2.5 or 3.x +1 There are two things will affect the share price ,First is assets capability to generate dividend, second things is share value adjusting with competitors. If there are not other assets operating likes AM which is mining and sale hardware and trading in public exchange ,then the second assumption is invalid. So ,the share price is only related to the assets capability to generate dividend, As long as AM still pays highest dividend compare with all other assets. I would see that price will continue but slowly go upward ,then stoped util AM pays slightly higher dividend than other assets.(at that time we will see that those 1/100 shares will have higher price than the PT, because price of P-T shares prevent some small investors to buying it and equal to entry barrier.) |
|
|
|
...
One of the purposes behind launching DMS was to allow the market to define a price for PMBs. I'm in no way surprised that value currently lies below what PMBs were previously selling for - and undoubtedly some speculators will have been burned by it (Investors less so - as they bought for the dividends and will continue to receive them. If they bought too high then their loss will be a gradual one as it would have been anyway).
Speculators were not my intended target (I am, after all, one myself). My target was people who bought an over-priced pre-order then thought to shift the risk/loss to investors AND get paid for doing so. It most definitely WAS one of my goals to make it a lot harder for anyone to sell horribly over-priced PMBs in the future - a goal I know you agree with and one which I think DMS will go a long way towards achieving. In part that goal is achieved simply by having DMS.MINING for sale cheaply - but it's also delivered on by forcing people to think a bit more about what PMBs are actually likely to pay out in various scenarios.
...
Yes, This guy also destroyed those who bought those over price PMBs contracts before he issued his PMBs, and if he did not issue this asset , unless those poor contracts holders were have chance to sold its contracts to someone else at small loss. |
|
|
|
Eff panic sells. Im holding...
I sold my shares for 0.06 with loss, but I would say that it was not panic sell, I just did the calculation. I should have listen to SOSLOVE868 before when the price was around 0.08. When I posted that do not buying any PMBs ,someone come to argue with me, and cursed about what I said. Anyway ,this guy called Frunmp seems disappear now, I am still glad I sold all my contracts at 0.94 ,after I sold my contracts, I think no one sold above this price. |
|
|
|
I think, it will jump down to 2.8-2.9 in 24 hours. Let's see  Yes, check out later. go for sleep now... tiring. |
|
|
|
I haven't heard this company (BTC Garden) mentioned much when people are discussing potential future hashrate competitors: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=213172.0Would anyone who has been following this care to share their opinions and/or calculations on this company's potential chance at success, delivery date, and hash rate? BTC garden is funded by the owner of largest Chinese bitcoin forum, BTCMAN.COM They not going to sell there devices into market, instead they will offer cloud hash. the price is around 800-1200BTC per 1T/hash rate and then aimed to adding 100 T after august, but I do not believe they could generate such amount at that time, because their products are too expensive ,I do not think people will go 1TH for that BTC, 1 TH is the minimum order I seen so far. |
|
|
|
This is the speculation thread I sold out so I'll wait till Wednesday and see how the market reacts to lower dividends this price seems to be going up but might scare a few weak hands when the dividend comes in low of course the week after  A great way to end a Friday  I think those weak hands will slowly realize that AM is the best Assets generate positive value so far.....Weak hands been seriously hurt by this Wednesday...they are bleeding and crying right now. Honestly a whole lot of positive news was on the 2 week horizon for real (NOT BFL) and the market reacted to the lower dividend instead lol So I'm chalking one down to market mentality lets see if it becomes 2 If not then I'll get back in sooner than later ha-ha Just need to go back a few pages lol Reference note page 11 to now https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=235763.200Smart guy ,I hope that will someone panic sell next week, I am going to get more BTC ready... |
|
|
|
Interesting variances in AM last prices: BTCT.CO ASICMINER-PT 3.30 BTCT.CO: TAT.ASICMINER 0.03249 (3.24/share) HAVELOCK: ASICM 0.0319 (3.19/share) BF: G-ASICMINER-PT 3.1498 BF: TAT.ASICMINER 0.0307 (3.07/share) What's the "real" market price? -helixone Real value should be annual return on investment roughly about 25-30% as long as the return is with this range , the price will continued growth, only if dividend can't not support this return, then we will see a price drop to adjust. |
|
|
|
As in crying that i did not buy more....
 ...I am hold very steady....we should be near 3.5 by this week,because right now most weaker are sold out their shares ,the rest of us are true believer ,and 3.5 may be next trigger point to sell... 3 is passed ,most people are not interested to selling their shares below 3.5 from my opinion, there are not big sell orders in both exchange below 3.5 right now. |
|
|
|
This is the speculation thread I sold out so I'll wait till Wednesday and see how the market reacts to lower dividends this price seems to be going up but might scare a few weak hands when the dividend comes in low of course the week after A great way to end a Friday I think those weak hands will slowly realize that AM is the best Assets generate positive value so far.....Weak hands been seriously hurt by this Wednesday...they are bleeding and crying right now. |
|
|
|
DMS.Mining is already cheaper than this.
Currently 0,015-0,016 for 5 Mh/s.
Seems the new PMB has no market...I just try to convince people do not buying those PMBs, otherwise will quickly lose your BTC. A lot of people don't touch DMS.Mining , because it has a very complicated contract involving DMS.Selling and DMS.Purchase. But DMS-Mining is about equal to a 5Mh/s bond. All the other stuff is used to bet against PMBs. (Note: At this point DMS.Selling is about 2.4 times more expensive than DMS.Mining, so it's difficult to say which one will give a profit in the end and which one will be at loss) I personally do not touch it, this just like play gamble in casino....big or small... |
|
|
|
DMS.Mining is already cheaper than this.
Currently 0,015-0,016 for 5 Mh/s.
Seems the new PMB has no market...I just try to convince people do not buying those PMBs, otherwise will quickly lose your BTC. |
|
|
|
Did you use 2FA?
In most cases, if your account transferred shares, then they are transferred. If you have 2fa enabled, then things are looked at more closely. I will be added 2fa support for transfers as well soon, however if someone can 2fa login to your account, then they can 2fa transfer shares from it. If you have not yet gotten a reply, more than likely it is still under investigation, and you may get a positive result rather than a quick "Sorry, there is not much we can do." type response. -Ukyo Hello ,Ukyo, I put wrong password several times ,and the system lock me out....ask me to try again later? how long would this take normally? |
|
|
|
|
My God, the price is 0.004 per 1 M/hash rate...
What you think when this PMB hit market how will it affecting other current PMB??
Another hug price drooped...Holding PMB is equal to send your BTC freely to other people...
This race never will stop once better PMB hit market, then Old one decrease its face value very quickly.
|
|
|
|
Another good reason why cryptocurrencies are superior. They are notorious, especially around weekends, their cash machines suddenly stop working!
Fortunately my wife and I have different banks.
HSBC website still went down...this really ridiculous...I need money...and I think lot of retailers are affect by this crash |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
