i disagree with Naval's concepts. 1. @ 5min he talks about a Dropbox appcoin where instead of POW it uses Proof of Storage. WTF is that? he goes on to say that the appcoin derives its supply and demand from trading btwn those who provide and those who request storage. that's fine. but what happened to the POW security mechanism for the appcoin? Not defending it, but here is some more info. https://storj.iohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIf5QsYrCb02. he advocates for the appcoin networks-the problem is they all have identifiable creators (Satoshi stayed anonymous for a reason) and they are premining coins. creators can be thrown in prison and the premining would be a problem for me. are Satoshi's coins a problem for me? no, b/c he kick started his own mining after releasing the open source Bitcoin software and everyone was free to have mined back then if they had the foresight and the luck to have heard about Bitcoin. at this point, the general concensus is that he may never sell his coins or if he does, it will be when Bitcoin is @ $10000-100000. good for him. but everyone else who starts an appcoin w/o a POW security mechanism or a decent chance at developing a network effect isn't for me.
3. i view these appcoins as nothing more than the same business structures we have today in fiat. and they're just complicating things with an appcoin that actually might make things worse since they don't necessarily have a rational POW security mechanism for their coins.
4. these appcoins networks are just specialized closed source communities serving a defined function. they will never reach the size of a money system like Bitcoin.
5. money affects everyone round the world. this is why we have global participation in Bitcoin and this is critical to it's security. no one gvt can shut it down b/c gvt's disagree over the long run. their varied interests is what assures the game theory Nash equilibrium that keeps each of them in check as they each worry that the other might just be building secrets mines and support for Bitcoin.
6. as far as allowing these appcoins to merge mine onto the Bitcoin network? i view that as leeching. Namecoin, ok. it was an early merged coin and the DNS function could serve a valuable purpose in the future. but other appcoins/shitcoins? no way. i'm not a dev but from my understanding there does need to be some special code inserted into the mining software to allow merged mining and i doubt there is zero cost to that. also, why should we as Bitcoiner's allow an appcoin distract from what Bitcoin is trying to do? Bitcoin itself is not out of the woods yet so i will seriously resist any appcoin/altcoin/2.0 that tries to leech off our network.
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I would hate to have a lot of money invested in bitcoin right now, it would definitely be hard to get a good night's sleep. I'm sure a lot of people are getting tired of seeing their investments struggle and gradually lose money, and are probably cutting their loose to sack it away in the stock markets or spend it on newegg.
I think the smart investors knew ahead of time to only invest what they could afford to loose and that is why we won't be going on an indefinite downtrend as the OP suggests. This is hodl mentality has spread and it is obvious the dumpers will have to buy back at a loose if they keep gambling with their coins.. I think they keep hoping if they fud the coins will come but that plan does not seem to be working so good if you ask me. loose: not firmly or tightly fixed in place; detached or able to be detached lose: be deprived of or cease to have or retain |
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You havent do your homework dude.  Most of the silver used in industry cannot be recycled. So 50% industrial/photography, the rest is investment related (people desire jewelry because it is valuable, same with actual silver silverware). Also, way to go giving me a graphic with no source information and no details about what timeframe the numbers are from. Maybe I should bust out excel and "prove" you wrong with my own graph. |
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They can always paper over the paper with more paper. Besides, silver is mostly worthless other than as a speculation. |
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The only difference between PoW and PoS is that with PoW you have to commit to a chain to apply your efforts. With PoS, there is no cost to agree with multiple forks at once, hedging your bets. This is the missing resource tether that lets it float free. Stakeholders could keep forging the popular fork, while they maintain and gain support for a side fork with negligible additional cost. It may have a use, but as a sound money it doesn't seem as solid as PoW.
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But prices are too high right now, if we can get back to the $300s at least, all my friends at school who said "bitcoin is too expensive" will think about buying again. Right now we're still sticking around $580 because of all the holders who refuse to accept a loss, but there's not much buying pressure to support it. It's simply unsustainable, imho.
Then your friends at school are complete idiots, because they can buy any amount of bitcoin they can afford. They can buy $580, $58, $5.80, hell they can buy $0.58 or $0.001 cents worth. It's all the same, it's all bitcoin. Owning "whole coins" is illusory, it doesn't exist, it doesn't even matter. Even the idea of a single "bitcoin" is simply a meaningless abstraction. A bitcoin is simply an abstract unit of measure, with relative value that changes over time. Like the ounce is in the gold and silver world. No one goes around saying "Hey, I own X number WHOLE ounces of gold!!" No, they say "I own $6000 worth of gold." I think they realize that, but they told me it's not fair that earlier investors could by hundreds of bitcoins for pennies on the dollar and they need to pay $580 to buy just one. So for that reason, they're going to wait until prices come back down again. And then my math teacher said that bitcoin in a ponzi scheme, and that "true value" is only $10 per coin, because he read about it on the Internet. That's just how people think, I guess. And that's why he's teaching high school math instead of putting his skills to use in industry. |
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Why are we in a bear trap? More like bull trap...
month old thread is month old |
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Let us say the creator of an altcoin deposited a stash of dollars, from which miners would be gradually rewarded. Works similar to 'mining' of USD. I don't think this would make very much sense to me. How would the creator of the "dollar coin" be compensated for doing this? What incentive would he have? The incentives look much better if you consider the creator to be a large portion of the mining capacity of the network. By backing the blocks he doesn't earn, he gets to float the blocks he does. An open market will really back things in the long term as the initial seed USD runs out. In addition, he can gain transaction fees if the network becomes popular. After the seed USD runs out, it may have to break the peg and USDcoin would possibly become more valuable than USD unless more backers are found to keep mining more USD. |
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Not wanting to be the only animal in the zoo who fails to see the bleeding obvious, monkey is now bullish on BTC.
Monkey also thinks the GBPUSD trend will end directly, expects oil to turn up very, very soon, and wants me to close my long volatility position.
Monkey remains bearish the US long bond and precious metals, but thinks I should take profits on shorts in the Russell and S&P.
Buffalo is bullish on BTC until everybody he knows starts asking him about it. He doesn't move quick enough to mess with trading. Buffalo is short S&P, but doesn't want to miss the real action if there is bond market contagion. But maybe buffalo shouldn't swim with monkeys and sharks, after all he's mostly meat and a place to climb out of the water. |
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Im not really sure about what you expect off the Argentina's defautl thing. People is poor and can barely go from month to month, they don't give a shit about Bitcoin, they just want the basic needs, that you need first covered to even consider giving a shit about Bitcoin.
The people that would benefit from Bitcoin is the small amount of people that have any relevant amount of money that they want to hide in Bitcoin before they steal all of their shit.
Do you mean a need like the ability to store value without having your purchasing power eroded by hyperinflation. Because that's exactly why nobody can get ahead. Fiat gives government the power to rob the populace to pay for their mistakes. Bitcoin takes this power away. |
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when does monkey sleep?
weekends. so short over the weekends? |
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monkey is in denial, thinks the bottoming has not finished.
monkey says the u.s. long bond goes down, spx/rty go up until the close, but the latter are in a daily downtrend until next week.
monkey says you can still scalp long audusd intraday, but need to be short overnight. similarly, buy silver intraday starting now, but stay short overnight. i guess the commodities complex is all the same.
monkey has me long volatility all week.
when does monkey sleep? |
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A few more after this price drop.
So you actually day-traded successfully? That's a rare thing. Most people tend to lose a substantial amount of their savings when they are panicking! Look into the Wall Observer thread! ShroomsKit claims he had 2 BTC just yesterday and traded his way down to 1 BTC now. Protip: you don't need to daytrade to buy more bitcoin. You can just buy (at night if you prefer). Very easy to do successfully, trust me. I've got a protip: never trust the guy that says "trust me"  I'm confused right now. Is there anyone I should still trust around here? If so, who? Not me |
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I hate when the rallies pause! I want up.. bubble-style.
Bigger markets than bitcoin are also on the move. Big money is distracted. Give it time. |
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A decent rebound and the bulls shout 'to da moon'. In order for the bullish scenario to live on, the next 48 (maybe 72) hours are critical.
If support at 540$ will be broken and new support found at 450$ or less, the bullish scenario will be invalidated, and we'll have capitulation.
At the very least it will be pumped up so that the 1st of the month buyers have to pay a bit more  . |
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moon soon?
yes  We're still between 1 and 2..... The smoke is there, but we haven't even started moving up yet. |
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This pop related to the Argentina default?  Something tells me my huge accumulation of Argentina pesos was a bad idea. Don't confuse reversion to the mean with fundamental shifts. We've had 8 days down. One up is nothing yet. |
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Either everybody buys before the next bubble in anticipation of one -> bubble starts too early
Either everybody waits until the bubble begins in anticipation of one -> bubble starts too late
Either way it won't happen when it's expected and you should have bought before it actually happens.
Or maybe, just maybe, the hundreds of thousands of individual actors with different priorities, beliefs, and understanding will somehow manage to behave differently from each other and the two camps cancel each other out, starting the bubble right on time. If all the involved actors would cancel each other, the prise would remain the same. But I get what you are saying, but you have to admit that it sounds quite stupid... 100 000 people equally spread 50/50, to buy exactly on the moment some chart predicted it would. I was trying to take your polar view and break it up to show you the actual continuum. Don't just stare at the middle. There are millions of shades of grey between black and white. |
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Don't worry  Sure, but percent change from 1 year prior is still well below historical norms. If you want to look at the data in other ways, you can play with the view here: http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/TCMDODebt growth has slowed and remains slow. Everything will look exponential if you look at it in nominal terms because the dollar has devalued exponentially. Debt growth has continued and debt remains huge. FTFY Debt growth has indeed slowed, as any six grader could understand from the data I presented. However, we can't afford any growth in debt because of the massive excesses prior to 2008, particularly throughout the 70s and 80s. |
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