So currency is money.

Very good now we have to define money.   

Money = The main functions of money are distinguished as: a medium of exchange; a unit of account; a store of value

So money is a unit. Now we need to define unit.

u·nit
ˈyo͞onit/Submit
noun
1.
an individual thing or person regarded as single and complete but which can also form an individual component of a larger or more complex whole.
"the family unit"
synonyms:   component, element, building block, constituent; More
a device that has a specified function, esp. one forming part of a complex mechanism.
"the gearbox and transmission unit"
a piece of furniture or equipment for fitting with others like it or made of complementary parts.
"a sink unit"
a self-contained section of accommodations in a larger building or group of buildings.
"one- and two-bedroom units"
a part of an institution such as a hospital having a special function.
"the intensive care unit"
a subdivision of a larger military grouping.
"he returned to Germany with his unit"
synonyms:   detachment, contingent, division, company, squadron, corps, regiment, brigade, platoon, battalion; More
an amount of educational instruction, typically determined by the number of hours spent in class.
"students take three compulsory core units"
an item manufactured.
"unit cost"
a police car.
"he eased into his unit and flicked the siren on"
2.
a quantity chosen as a standard in terms of which other quantities may be expressed.
"a unit of measurement"
synonyms:   quantity, measure, denomination More
3.
the number one.
the digit before the decimal point in decimal notation, representing an integer less than ten.
Origin

More
late 16th cent. (as a mathematical term): from Latin unus, probably suggested by digit.
Translate unit to
Use over time for: unit

It is fine as long as people see it for what it is. You can still transact value with them and they do still have value (as long as we agree they have value). They transact value in the way that trading cards do, not the way currency does.

The point for me is that they cant replace the dollar and it cant take the control of the money supply away from the banks and government special interest groups.

It isnt a threat to the existing power structure.

My motivation is to make the world a more fair place and to help close the gap in income inequality. My goal is for 1 income to be sufficient to raise a family on, like it used to be. We are capable of producing so much more wealth with so much less labor. The work week should me getting shorter one income should be more than enough if it was enough in the past. 1 percent of the population owns 46 percent of the wealth of the world something is not right about that and this is the mechanism that creates that scenario.   


I dont think that most of the people involved in this tech realize the radical transformation it is capable of bringing about. I want to see that transformation in my life time.

So stop dicking around with digital collectibles and someone make digital currency!   

My suggestion for units--
1 satoshi  = 1 joule of work
1 satoshi = 1 kilowatt
1  satoshi = 1 byte.   

     back to the drawing board.

Do you not get that you just admitted it is not money. Bitcoin doesn't meet that definition. It is not a unit.  You are saying that it will become a unit, but it is not one now.

Until it is a unit it is not currency.

This is a problem of measurement guys. It requires a unit.   

Exactly!

You get it!

That is why digital currency is so important. The problem isnt that they create currency out of thin air. Units are created out of thin air, they are just representations. We dont limit the number of inchs or pounds and we shouldn't limit the amount of currency. What should be done is to keep the unit true and to do that as you point out, it is not the value that changes but the quantity.  

Ben bernakie actually had a good idea.. (this shit is was hard for me to swallow) when he suggested tossing currency from helicopters. The issue with an elastic currency supply is the distribution it is that banks and wall street get the money first. Digital currency can change that. Instead of the value changing it is the quantity that need to change. It could be set up that when demand for bitcoin goes up and more people want to transact in it that the block reward changes and coins are randomly distributed not to miners but to active wallets?

The real reason that this problem wont be fixed is that it will remove the financial gain. This community is built on speculation. If bitcoin were to be defined. No one would be getting rich off of hording it.    

You dont know how happy it makes me to see people getting it. 

I am not saying that it cant be currency but it will have to be defined. Currency is a unit and units are objectively definable. We measure things that dont exist like value and data in terms of things that do! 

A unit of data is equal to a byte a byte is equal to a charged particle.    1 satoshi = 1 byte = 1 charged partical. Now it can work. You cant have measurement without a UNIT.

The world has been living with a system of measurement that doesnt have a unit. This has happened before. An inch used to be measured by human thumbs. That is the state of currency today a unit of measurement that changes properties. The governments of the world have passed out a ruler for measuring value that doesn't have any lines on it.     

First, I dont want this to be true but it is.

Currency is a unit.

It is a unit in the system of measurement of value. Just like an inch is a unit in the system of measurement for length.

Units (and there have been thousands of different ones) all have 2 things in common.

1- They are not real. They are all made up, everyone of them is just an opinion. Inch, pound, meter, cat 5, g force,currency --- not real.
the are all just an opinion that we chose to share. We all share the opinion that an inch is so long, if we all shared the opinion that an inch was a foot then it would be.

2- All units are equal to a constant and are objectively definable.

Bitcoin is not a currency because it is not a unit. It has to be definable it has to be equal to something.  An inch is not real but it is definable.

* note that the USD no longer fits the definition of currency either. It is not a UNIT 



 

Not yet

Thanks I took down the Id for now. He says he will pay tomorrow.

I think he will pay more than likely just having a hard time he seems like a good dude, but who knows. 

Charged back paypal. It was weird there wasn't a review case or anything they just took the money. He said that it was a bank problem and that he was gonna pay, but it doesn't look like it.

Got me for $ 150

Here are the details




----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bank Issued Payment Reversal
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Dear Amber North,

Transaction date:  Sep 23, 2013
Transaction amount:  $100.00 USD
Buyer's email:  iowaairsoftsupply@live.com
Buyer's name:  logan brown
Your transaction ID:  66W74124YT7735323

Your buyer or your buyer's bank requested a payment reversal for the transaction detailed above. Often times, bank reversals occur when a buyer or a buyer's bank reports that the transaction was not authorized. Although we are required to return the payment to the bank in these instances, we don't debit your account if the transaction was covered under PayPal Seller Protection. Unfortunately, this payment was not covered under PayPal Seller Protection, and it was deducted from your PayPal balance.

If a transaction is eligible for PayPal Seller protection it will be marked as "Eligible" or "Partially Eligible" on your Transaction Details page. To learn more PayPal Seller Protection, click "Legal Agreements" at the bottom of any PayPal webpage and then click "User Agreement".

We appreciate your business and are truly sorry for the problems you have experienced with this transaction

Sincerely,
PayPal

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This email was sent by an automated system, so if you reply, nobody will see it. To get in touch with us, log in to your account and click "Contact Us" at the bottom of any page.

Copyright © 2013 PayPal, Inc. All rights reserved. PayPal is located at 2211 N. First St., San Jose, CA 95131.

PayPal Email ID  PP412

service@paypal.com <service@paypal.com>
Oct 3

to me
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Bank Issued Payment Reversal
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Dear Amber North,

Transaction date:  Sep 17, 2013
Transaction amount:  $50.00 USD
Buyer's email:  iowaairsoftsupply@live.com
Buyer's name:  logan brown

Dude exactly that is the function of price! God damn I get really tired of this argument. It doesnt matter if you measure it in work or kilowatts or gold or ass or oil or anything else. The price someone is willing to pay is the representation of subjective value the standard is what you measure against.

For instance you could push my car to give me a jump you only spent 100 joules doing it so I pay you 110 because I am a nice guy, But if I was on the way to get some pussy ... I might be willing to pay 500 joules to get a push start.

IT IS PRICE THAT IS THE REPRESENTATION OF SUBJECTIVE CHANGES IN VALUE AT A GIVEN PLACE AND TIME!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iquemUNNYY8 Please watch it and get a little stash of food and water for the just in case.  

100 percent agreed on that bitcoin will not be the successor


It has never happened in the history of man that a debt based world reserve currency failed.

It is all part of the problem that I am pointing out.

Let me try explaining it differently

The unit of measurement of value has been many things, sea shell's, massive rocks, salt, food, metals/gold, and now we have a pseudo unit of measurement called a dollar.

So basically the world has had a government standard for the last 40 years.

The crisis that the world is experiencing is because the government standard changes. It is a dictated standard that floats to American advantage and at the expense of the rest of the world. Countries are moving away from the dollar and we will lose our status as the reserve currency.

The question is what will the new standard be? If we want a world that is not dictated to us at the point of a gun, if we want a smaller police state and less wars we need to choose a unit that is not controlled and distributed by the government.

Bitcoin could be that standard, but it is gonna have to be defined in terms of something other than the government standard. You cant define bitcoin with the USD or EURO or any other state issued currency, and it can not have a hard limit.

http://theautomaticearth.com/Finance/the-imf-proposes-a-10-supertax-on-all-eurozone-household-savings.html

http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/business/de-americanized-world-needed-after-us-shutdown-china-media/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robin-koerner/monetary-policy_b_1270711.html

http://www.mises.org/daily/6556/How-Much-Longer-Will-the-Dollar-be-the-Reserve-Currency

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/americas-default-on-its-debt-is-inevitable/2013/10/10/1451d416-302c-11e3-bbed-a8a60c601153_story.html

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international-business/us-headed-toward-very-dangerous-moment-world-bank/articleshow/24070979.cms

"The post-1971 dollar derives its value from the stamp of the government that issues it. Across the seas, this imprimatur is starting to look a little tenuous. Lend us your dollars for 10 years, the Treasury proposes. We will pay you the lordly interest rate of 2.7 percent per annum. And at the end of those 10 years, we will hand you back your principal, which will almost certainly buy less than the money you lent.

This is the unsustainable conceit of the world’s superpower-cum-super debtor. By deed, if not audible word, we Americans say: “The greenback is the world’s great monetary brand. You have no choice but to use it. Like it or lump it.” But the historical record of paper currencies is clear: Governments always over-issue it. The people finally do lump it."


“The cyclical stagnation in Washington for a viable bipartisan solution over a federal budget and an approval for raising debt ceiling has again left many nations’ tremendous dollar assets in jeopardy and the international community highly agonized,” said the commentary.

“Instead of honoring its duties as a responsible leading power, a self-serving Washington has abused its superpower status and introduced even more chaos into the world by shifting financial risks overseas,” but equally stoked “regional tensions amid territorial disputes, and fighting unwarranted wars under the cover of outright lies” the commentary said, referring to Iraq.

It added that emerging economies should have a greater say in major international financial institutions the World Bank and International Monetary Fund and proposed a “new international reserve currency that is to be created to replace the dominant US dollar.”

"China has only slightly more weight than Italy at the IMF, which has been headed by a European since its creation in 1944.
A governance reform has been in the works for three years but its implementation has been blocked by the effective veto of the United States."



"The top richest 1 percent of people own 46 percent of global assets"



 
   

I suggest 1 unit of currency = 1 unit of value = 1 joule of work.     

All units of measurement are very subjective, people said the same thing before they defined an inch. Length is very subjective or weight is very subjective or g force is very subjective... is all very much a matter of opinion, but when we all share the same opinion something cool happens it becomes a matter of fact length is no longer subjective when we all accept the unit of an inch and when we all accept a unit of the measure of value it will no longer be subjective. 

My argument is that currency is a measurement system to try and quantify value.

If currency is the measurement of value what is it's unit of measurement?

Every system of measurement on the planet depends on a unit of measurement.

weight      =  pounds
length      =  inch
work        =  joule  
brightness = candles
time         = second
value        =  ?

What is a unit? "a quantity chosen as a standard in terms of which other quantities may be expressed."

Who chooses that standard? We do! people just start to all agree on a unit

The first thing people say is that value is subjective, but all of the units of measurement are a matter of opinion that we all share. What is subjective to the individual is not true of man kind in general. It may be true that a individual may not value food but it is not likely to ever be true that mankind would not value food.

So if currency is just a yardstick to measure value of real things it is just a tool, like a protractor, compass, tape measure but it has no lines on it. To give currency lines we have to all define and accept a unit of value.

I suggest 1 joule of work = 1 unit of currency

When we define a unit of currency it will no longer be subjective when we all believe something it becomes objective.

The only way to ever measure anything is against a point of reference.
 

This is what is says on wiki about money--

"Measure of value
Money acts as a standard measure and common denomination of trade. It is thus a basis for quoting and bargaining of prices. It is necessary for developing efficient accounting systems. But its most important usage is as a method for comparing the values of dissimilar objects."

There is no system of measurement that does not have a constant, not one of them no matter how subjective they may seem every system of measurement has a unit! The measure of value is no different the above statement is not true and will not be true until a unit of value is accepted.



  

It is even more powerful that it was just a kid who was driven by principle.

It shows that no matter how small you seem everyone is capable of making a impact.