So the only things here is I did math yesterday, I did calculation from a website...is chinese , but you can translator . for 3M HASH per 0.1 BTC take 4655 days to recovery all initial principle...based on each 12 days the difficulty will increase 10%... http://mining.btcfans.com/this is the website I used, it is Chinese...but you can check it out by you self... You are wrong on so many counts that it would take far too much time to set you straight. Like I've said before, you do your math and if you're confident in that, you act on it. Here's a hint, though... Nobody is buying PAJKA for its 3mhs. Now please heed by advice and take some time away to study the very dangerous and costly game you are playing. I won't be entertaining your nonsense FUD anymore. You've been proven wrong in virtually every statement you've made. There's no need for anyone to listen to you. .b It is ok..you can holding PAJKA,as I said I trust my perception.even my perception is wrong,then the math do not lie..ten years for recovery my initial investment ,just too long time..I can't wait for ten years!may be you can. |
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I still have 61 contracts , if you really think this is a good deal, why don't you buying it ??I am offering a low price now....
I already have bought a large chunk of your panic sold bonds. I have an investment profile that doesn't lend itself to further exposure right now, though. .b Thanks ...this really kind...I hope you will happy with your investment...Time will tell..... |
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I am not native English speaker...If I use wrong words..just ignoring it....thanks
That's fine, I'm not a native English speaker either, and I'm sure your English is better than my Spanish. I'm still wondering what you mean by 'lifting' shares? Did you mean lost? Sold? Bought? Currently held? and PMB assets only describe the shares has the right to buy it back at market price...In the long-run they absolutely has the right to pays you little dividend and perpetually holds your fund....if you think you can get dividend faster than the time your asset has loss its value...
Each PMB has its own set of terms that define if or when bonds are bought back. There is no general rule, except that the term perpetual usually indicates that bonds will not be bought back. Reading up on the terms may be a good idea before you sign that contract. .b So the only things here is I did math yesterday, I did calculation from a website...is chinese , but you can translator . for 3M HASH per 0.1 BTC take 4655 days to recovery all initial principle...based on each 12 days the difficulty will increase 10%... http://mining.btcfans.com/this is the website I used, it is Chinese...but you can check it out by you self... |
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I am not native English speaker...If I use wrong words..just ignoring it....thanks
That's fine, I'm not a native English speaker either, and I'm sure your English is better than my Spanish. I'm still wondering what you mean by 'lifting' shares? Did you mean lost? Sold? Bought? Currently held? and PMB assets only describe the shares has the right to buy it back at market price...In the long-run they absolutely has the right to pays you little dividend and perpetually holds your fund....if you think you can get dividend faster than the time your asset has loss its value...
Each PMB has its own set of terms that define if or when bonds are bought back. There is no general rule, except that the term perpetual usually indicates that bonds will not be bought back. Reading up on the terms may be a good idea before you sign that contract. .b I mean the current contract you still hold in your hand at that time in future...if the issuer pays needless dividend to you( not intend to buying back ) and nor body buying your contracts either, what will you do then?? I still have 61 contracts , if you really think this is a good deal, why don't you buying it ??I am offering a low price now.... |
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Thus stuck in that position or sell at loss price!!!!!
“Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind.” PMB is god damn sick trap!!! I am happy I only lift 60 shares !!!!
It may have been a trap for you but only because you bought something you didn't understand. That is your failure, not that of the asset type. And how to you 'lift' shares at all, not to mention these aren't shares but bonds? You further mentioned that you held 450 'shares' just a few days ago. Are these lifting shares related to that number in any way? if anyone think I am wrong, you better prove you are right!!!
That's not exactly how proving a claim works. It is whoever makes a claim that bears the burden of proof. However, I'm confidend that the majority understand how bonds work, even if you didn't. There is nothing for us to prove; it is you that is making the claim that this is a scam. I hope you realize how you're looking in this forum right now and that you take a bit of time to relax, take a few steps back, and come back when you've read up on the basics. .b increase difficulty 26% roughly equal to times 0.83 to current dividend....0.0001087X0.83(9) three months will adjust difficulty by 9 times.. after that 0.00002 ....total dividend needs to be paid for today's 4810 contracts is 0.08 BTC..... and continue decrease......... because the contract never mentioned when the issuer will buying back.....if I am the issuer I will continued pay you the needless dividend....And do not hope anyone will buy over your contract at that time... |
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Thus stuck in that position or sell at loss price!!!!!
“Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind.” PMB is god damn sick trap!!! I am happy I only lift 60 shares !!!!
It may have been a trap for you but only because you bought something you didn't understand. That is your failure, not that of the asset type. And how to you 'lift' shares at all, not to mention these aren't shares but bonds? You further mentioned that you held 450 'shares' just a few days ago. Are these lifting shares related to that number in any way? if anyone think I am wrong, you better prove you are right!!!
That's not exactly how proving a claim works. It is whoever makes a claim that bears the burden of proof. However, I'm confidend that the majority understand how bonds work, even if you didn't. There is nothing for us to prove; it is you that is making the claim that this is a scam. I hope you realize how you're looking in this forum right now and that you take a bit of time to relax, take a few steps back, and come back when you've read up on the basics. .b I am not native English speaker...If I use wrong words..just ignoring it....thanks anyway, I just believe difficulty will increase more than 26% each ten days...because ASICs are coming...and the low technique was used for producing those chips......I did the math yesterdays....if difficulty increase 26% each ten days...then the dividend will soon become needless..(based on BTC price will increase, more and more people jumping with their ASIC).. and PMB assets only describe the shares has the right to buy it back at market price...In the long-run they absolutely has the right to pays you little dividend and perpetually holds your fund....if you think you can get dividend faster than the time your asset has loss its value... |
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Then if investors are smart, they'll bid up the price of TAT's bond to match the rate of return of PAJKA's within seconds of the issuance... You assume a rational market. A market, mind you, that includes people like SOS who would rather give money away in a vain attempt to hurt someone than just walk away with money in his pocket. PAJKA is not necessarily a better deal than TAT.VM. At some point, PAJKA will pay the equivalent (by today's standard) of 54280 satoshis per share, whereas TAT.VM is currencly paying around 30000 satoshis at a comparable price. Will TAT.VM's 'lead' of 19K satoshis lead until BFL ships be enough to offset the lead PAJKA will get until bonds are unprofitable? That depends on when BFL ships to PAJKA. It's not as clear cut as you make it out to be, though. .b I hope you really get your money back at today's rate..... |
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People who mention an IPO obviously don't know the premise behind a coupon-paying bond...same thing with US treasuries, this isn't a sale of equity, but rather an open-market issuance of debt. There's no hard cap on the number of shares that can contractually be issued because you're not buying into physical assets/there's no equity backing the bonds (as opposed to the normal case with stocks, where the stockholder is promised his or her share of the company assets in the event of liquidation, although in many cases of BTC stocks, even this isn't promised).
Good point, and I think I'll include this in my article if you don't mind me referencing you? .b I believe USA treasuries has a maturity date.....but how about this one?  ?as long as mining is profitable, the difficulty will increase..and the improvement on developing those mining rigs ,is far beyond your think....If you now that ASICMINER only use 230NM technique to produce their Chips ...but the majority technique worldwide to produce chips is 5nm today(Intel or Navidian has 0.5NM)!!!!! and if you do not believe what I said go do your math online....the difficulty has increase 26%(Even lot of miners not delivery yet) since last time...you could use this figure to calculating what is the dividend three months later. and remember that difficulty adjust its self roughly 10 days a time..... |
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Then if investors are smart, they'll bid up the price of TAT's bond to match the rate of return of PAJKA's within seconds of the issuance... EDIT: And I mean this from a two-sided perspective. PAJKA bond-holders, DO NOT SELL. This is classic game theory with two alternatives - either PAJKA holders will sell low or TAT holders will bid up. If the PAJKA group holds their ask line, it should drive the TAT price up. Also, why would TAT offer such a higher coupon (its a coupon in this case - dividends are via stocks) when he's perfectly free to match PAJKA's rate or JAH's rate on BitFunder? To me, it seems like he's overpaying, especially with the reputation he's built up with the AM micro-PT... Option 1: bid up PAJKA. Option 2: Dump PAJKA. Plus both TAT and PAJKA's divs are dropping dramatically as dif goes up. Bad news for everyone buying TAT.V above 0.007 ,Because TAT has told in this forum, he will issue as many as he want...depend on the demand...another problem here, this guy is very smart...if he slowly issue new contract at 0.007 , if investors notice about it, it will caused less people willing to buy any price above 0.007... I hope you better understand the story here, TAT is continued issuing new shares... If whole network difficult is steady increasing , during the time.... assume some one issuing another PMB with higher HASH RATE...this guy could be TAT....then it will turn to be very very difficult for current TAT.V holders to sell their BOND contract...Thus stuck in that position or sell at loss price!!!!! PMB is god damn sick trap!!! I am happy I only lift 60 shares !!!! the only way you can win the issuer is BTC price damn drop....No body want to mining more.....the issuer takes money from you at current rate...but only needs to be pay you back at the price is damn low....!!! if anyone think I am wrong, you better prove you are right!!! |
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How about making it possible to change the 2 Factor key on WeEx, or to disable it? I don't see any way to do that. If I lose my access to that key, will my funds be stuck on BitFunder forever?
+1 same concern... |
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Just wondering, why should he give us a bonus? The description of this asset clearly stated what we would be getting, and that we would be paid, per share/unit, based on 1Mhash of mining power.
what is the bonus? |
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How about if bfl is not deliver nor refund the BTC back to you ? what will you do then?
Great question, it doesn't look like BFL will deliver so I guess you would buy out the fund. Well, I believe that BFL will deliver sooner or later. In case BFL goes bankrupt ... I might consider buying the bonds back ... but the question is at what price ... What price do you see fair? 0.1 BTC minus all paid dividends? No, that's too much ... but how much ... that's a question. Some people bought into 0.3mhash/s bonds, some bought into 1.5mhash/s bonds all with the risk that they might never reach even 3mhash/s ... When PAJKA.BOND was selling as 1.5mhash/s bond per 0.1BTC it was cheaper than other mining bonds and now after upgrade it gave already nice dividends. Now the difficulty went a bit higher and new mining bonds/companies backed by ASIC showed up at lower prices. If you buy now you take a risk that BFL will bankrupt but you know the price (it may be higher when BFL delivers) and get the dividends from 3mhash/s until they deliver. The choice is yours. I'm confused, your contract states exactly how much you would pay to buy the bonds back, and why does BFL have anything to do with your bond? You offered a 1.5 MH bond (now 3 MH.) your contract on BTCTC states that you can buy out the bonds at 110% of the average 15 day price. are these wrong? the problem of PMB is only stated that issuer has the right to buying back the bonds at anytime... because it does not specific a time...this why , if the difficulty will increase 20X times from now to next year!!! then it means almost not cost for the issuer to keep the money..... The issuer never break any contract...they just exploit it!!! I will never ever buying any PMB contract....I feel been cheated.... |
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SOS, to be honest, I think perhaps you may want to relax a bit in your investments. It is clear that you don't accurately grasp all the factors and that you may need to work on your math a bit to avoid burning yourself on your investments and losing money.
This isn't relevant to PAJKA, though, so I suggest you look elsewhere for some general advice. Perhaps investing in a fund is a better option for you?
.b
Nevermind, difficulty has increase today....and it take 5518 days for those PAJKA holder to recovery their initial investment...and make profit... I am happy that you like this investment....!!! So you can wait for 5518 days to collect you funds back...Don't try to convince me....Under current market situation if PMB does't not specific out when the issuer will buying back the bond...this is a trap....!!!!I will never invest any my money into it!!!I just can not get back it for sure..... of course you can hold and wait for more than 10 years to get your money back ,this is your choice... You believe your math is correct, so you sell, and that is your prerogative as an investor. If you are confident in your decision, however, I don't understand why you don't sell everything, considering you claim to have sold some and that the rest must be equally unprofitable as the ones you've already sold. As far as I can see, there are sill bids up. .b I tried to sell everything...but the market does not appreciate this bonds....this why I have been stuck here.... |
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what controls how many will get put onto the market?, is there a limited amount of them,
As far as I can tell, TAT is free under the contract on Bitfunder to release more shares at any time, without advance notice, and to set any "fair market price" when doing so. In fact it looks like he has done so once already -- there were originally 100k shares released, but now it looks like there are 115k total shares released. I don't know if the additional 15k shares released at a later time were also sold at .007 or not, but TAT was probably not contractually obligated to set the price precisely at that level even if he happened to do so. It is also my understanding that TAT is currently looking into the process of launching the same investment on at least one if not two other exchanges (btct and Havelock). If successful, this would obviously result in the creation of more shares as well, albeit in a sister market. So scarcity of shares, in the sense of a stable and known number of shares where the share issuer does not arbitrarily create more, does not appear to be a feature of this asset. The asset will not be released on Havelock, this I can confirm. It's release on BTCTC is in question, but uncertain at the moment. Some new "units" (I have to be careful with these terms...) were sold within the first 36 hours of the IPO release at roughly .0075 and higher. I have not participated in the market since then. Oddly, other speculators seem to be holding down the price for now. Regardless, the intent of this asset is to be denominated as 1MH/s. While I can affect the market value by releasing more, I cannot totally control the market from speculators or increased demand over time. I want to see a healthy price, just as much as the other unit holders. Generally, this asset is still undervalued when compared to other mining assets, or, you can say the others are overvalued... I plan to take some time to see if I can think of a regulated way to issue new shares in the future, but I cannot promise a magical solution. At the moment, I have sold as much as I'd like to, and will probably not reassess until this weekend. I can tell you that if the asset does get approved for release on BTCTC, I won't be releasing as many shares there (in the short term at least), and it will make it much less likely that I will release new shares on Bitfunder (in the short term). I want to know ,when will you stop this IPO process??? if you always issuing new contracts...it make very difficult for us to selling our contract without loss....seems we are obligate to fee the 0.8% trading administration fee.... I do think if you would slightly issue less new contract it will be a good news for those earlier adopter...what you think here?? |
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SOS, to be honest, I think perhaps you may want to relax a bit in your investments. It is clear that you don't accurately grasp all the factors and that you may need to work on your math a bit to avoid burning yourself on your investments and losing money.
This isn't relevant to PAJKA, though, so I suggest you look elsewhere for some general advice. Perhaps investing in a fund is a better option for you?
.b
Nevermind, difficulty has increase today....and it take 5518 days for those PAJKA holder to recovery their initial investment...and make profit... I am happy that you like this investment....!!! So you can wait for 5518 days to collect you funds back...Don't try to convince me....Under current market situation if PMB does't not specific out when the issuer will buying back the bond...this is a trap....!!!!I will never invest any my money into it!!!I just can not get back it for sure..... of course you can hold and wait for more than 10 years to get your money back ,this is your choice... |
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And curiously want to know...do you hold any amount of PAJKA bond? I do. .b How many??? Why is that relevant to anything? Assume the answer is either 1, 37, 2643 of 25000. What does that have to do with anything? I wrote you an article to hopefully get you to understand a bit about what a mining bond is: http://coin.furuknap.net/understanding-mining-bonds/.b The answer is also important...as I hold about 500 contracts!this almost 1/8 of total contract sold... math never lie , I do not want to share the risk of the mistake made by this owner...which is he did order from BFL....this risk is too high!!!!! 10 years to recovery the principle??? you must be kidding!!! |
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And curiously want to know...do you hold any amount of PAJKA bond? I do. .b How many??? Why is that relevant to anything? Assume the answer is either 1, 37, 2643 of 25000. What does that have to do with anything? I wrote you an article to hopefully get you to understand a bit about what a mining bond is: http://coin.furuknap.net/understanding-mining-bonds/.b I just read through your article, it is not doubt you have wrote a good peace of work... Let's back to our topic....I have sold out most of my Pajka bond.....the reason is very simple...Although I made some loss on the sell, I am not regret ..I use calculation if the net work increase difficulty each 12 days by 10% I am looking for 3481 days to recovery my principle!!! this almost 10 years...I think all people here is betting on that BFL will delivery, but I just do not trust anything relate to BFL....therefore lose right now...still better than waiting for almost 10 years to recovery...in 10 years time!!!!!BTCT might not even exist!!!who does you going to claim your investment? ? I appreciate your writing and this could greatly help newbies to understanding mining bond... I do not care what mining bond it is ,the only thing I care is about the risk of my investment...I will never call a investment that need take 3481 days to recovery as a good opportunity...as I state non of other people will consider in this way indeed!!! if the issuer maintain his contract in ordinary way and not take my suggestion. then it just a nice trap...you guys are betting on BFL....sorry I am out.....you still can hold it and wait for it ....I hope you lucky enough that BFL will delivery!!! |
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And curiously want to know...do you hold any amount of PAJKA bond? I do. .b How many??? Why is that relevant to anything? Assume the answer is either 1, 37, 2643 of 25000. What does that have to do with anything? I wrote you an article to hopefully get you to understand a bit about what a mining bond is: http://coin.furuknap.net/understanding-mining-bonds/.b I just read through your article, it is not doubt you have wrote a good peace of work... Let's back to our topic....I have sold out most of my Pajka bond.....the reason is very simple...Although I made some loss on the sell, I am not regret ..I use calculation if the net work increase difficulty each 12 days by 10% I am looking for 3481 days to recovery my principle!!! this almost 10 years...I think all people here is betting on that BFL will delivery, but I just do not trust anything relate to BFL....therefore lose right now...still better than waiting for almost 10 years to recovery...in 10 years time!!!!!BTCT might not even exist!!!who does you going to claim your investment? ? |
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Oh pa gambling style.......hei~~~sexy lady~~~~~~~
if the difficulties triple in one months, this will be a reasonable way to get money from issues a PMB...I think this could be happen we know ASICMINER going to deploy their 200TH.....and 100TH....AMC......even BTCGarden are on the way to jumping !!!......avalon chips shipping worldwide already.....BFL may start their shipments....
This just are gambling based on does he made right prediction of the market...just it!!!
for everyone holding PMB contracts...once there are better PMB in the market...then it will largely affecting the demand of TAT.VB !!! Holders will suffering in low liquidity!!!! and this situation will forced them to selling their contracts below IPO!!!!!!!! All PMB does not have maturity time, pretty nice in short-run, in long run is just worthless....
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you can get friedcat to confirm it to you in an email.
Alternatively you could always buy passthrough shares from bitfunder or btct.
Friedcat seems to do everything himself. I worry what would happen if he got hit by a truck tomorrow and ended in a coma or worse a graveyard. Does he have people who can then take over the operation smoothlessly? I think for a multi-million business like ASICMINER...they should have a back up plan.......ASICMINER is not one person business, it is impossible for one man to dealing with everything in this level... But this multi-million company does not have a website and likely didn't even buy the domains asicminer.com/net in time, so all my love for AM appart, I wouldn't assume anything that one could assume from a "usual" multi-million company... As long as ASICMINER mining around 20% of Btc and they pay out dividends, I do not really care about whether it owns the domains asicminer.com/net or not...Additionally, Some scams have very professional website and 24/HR customer hotline... |
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