We already do regulate the market... We trade, we use it to buy and sell, and we value it.

Are you saying that you want a single entity to tell you what your holdings are worth? We have that already, it is called FIAT. They will always tell you your holdings are worth less and less, because they want more and more of what you have, and spend more of what you have to regulate it.

You want to regulate it... sell it when you see it is high, buy it when you see it is low... Instant regulation!

If you think the price is too high, feel free to sell me your BTC for less. If you think it is too low, feel free to buy mine for more. I'm game for that!

A dollar is never worth a dollar... Ever... The second you give it to someone, they owe taxes on what you just gave them. So if you gave them a dollar, you actually only gave them $0.93. (That is 7% tax.) SO for them to get a whole dollar, you would have to give them $1.07. So you see, a dollar is never worth a dollar, ever. It costs you to spend, it costs you to receive, it costs you to hold, it costs you to save. Some things just cost less to do... Unless you risk it in investments, and win.

Funny thing is... the more it loses value, the more qty you demand... the more qty you demand, the more they tax you... which is why they constantly lower the value, so you earn more qty to be taxed more.

That is your govt ripping you off, systematically, using "regulation" as an excuse, and as the "trust", which is false-trust. The reason they call it trust, is because they don't want you to see the truth. "Trust me..." When has that ever been said, except when it was said to mislead you into "trusting", instead of believing in the reality of the matter?

Bitcoins are never lost... they are always there... you just lose access to them.

Sorry, but with 100PHs network, you can easily "guess" a collision of sha-256, or guess a collision of a collision of a sha-256.

If it were 1:999999999999-trillion-trillion-trillion to find 1 collision... You could find it in 1 try, on some address on the network, just as easily.

Now 256-bits is only 32-bytes, represented as 64-bytes as HEX-values.
EG: "BOB" = 54fcf974eabb0444320acd2835977b2c686b916162e6571668ac45db549da031

A collision for that could be the hash for the word "SUE", or "FRED", or "CAT", though that is hashed again.
EG: 54fcf974eabb0444320acd2835977b2c686b916162e6571668ac45db549da031 => 96faee69f068c221ad557cbba0c0e7afdd9d3a18ffa2d81f2290d72e2818111a

Now that hash, which could have been "BOB" or "SUE" or "FRED" or "CAT"... has collisions also, which could be "FISH", or "SNOT", or "PEPSI", or "PASSWORD", or "GOLD"... Multiplied by the number of collisions that were possible from the first conversion.

Thus, now there are multiple more "acceptable" hashes/keys that will unlock any of those wallets. Because you are still converting a single-answer-password into a multi-possible-answer-hash, into another multi-possible-answer-hash.

You can test this with something simple like CRC32, and see that you now have millions of "keys" that are valid, instead of only a hundred, by double-encryption, with the same type of encryption. (That is the real reason the whole project was abandoned.)

P.S. Doesn't take a computer long to create 32-bytes randomly and stuff those values into an off-line wallet to see if it unlocks it. Since those accounts are not being monitored by anyone. Since the whole chain, all accounts, are already downloaded on his computer. Takes but a few seconds to make one random key, and try it on all existing accounts, before generating another random key, and trying it on all of them again.

It will succeed simply because crap obtained by fear and force of the few upon many, is nothing compared to what is obtained by want and desire of many from the few.

It is the Ohms law... The path of least resistance is where everything flows freely in volume. High resistance is the point of failure, where excessive losses occur. (Restrictions)

It is the law of nature... What is mine, is mine. Go get your own shit. If I wanted help, I would have paid you for it, voluntarily. (Taxes)

It is the law of chaos... The more you attempt to control it, the less control you have on it. The more you allow it to grow without control, the more it controls you. (Freedom)

It is the law of internet... ZOMG, WTF, TYSM, ILU, LOL, STFU, GTFO, TMI, L8R!

Oh, yea, and because there is no board of CEO's draining its value too.

There was a member who posted pics and started to do some setup stuff, a few posts back. (Though, he was short one board, and said one fan was either DOA, or stuck. He was being shipped the missing board. Seems the photos have been removed... but the posts are still there.)

The guy getting the free miner, messed-up his shipping info, corrected it, and is waiting for the delivery.

As for the website... Google, or just follow the many ads for AMT that are showing-up everywhere in anything related to bitcoins. Hint for the future, if you ever forget... Google "1.2THs bitcoin", or "AMT bitcoin"... First few links should be one for the website.

The relevant posts are scattered among all the troll-posts. There is also some miner-pron within the first 20 posts, as well as videos on youtube.

How about designating the four forms of hardware...

Mining: GPU
Mining: FPGA
Mining: ASIC
Mining: Experimental/Future-tech

Until another form of "Experimantal/Future-tech", becomes "Something Named".

GPU's are not dead, thanks to scrypt and up-coming GPU's.
FPGA's are a specific form, solid in development, no longer experimental.
ASIC's are the current form, no-longer the future or experimental/custom.
While the last group would be designated for any of those, being used for "development" or "modification", to be something more, or something new, or just experimental. (Watches, phones, tablets, non-standard hardware toys, unreleased/DIY ASIC's.)

Seems logical to me. Merge and then create four new specific groups for us to fill with new posts. Or archive and move, what you can.

Like I said, buy it, or don't... I personally don't care. Your options are all in front of you.

I am not in EU, so I could care less about EU-VAT. I linked the EU-VAT pages, and simply quoted right from the pages. I never said anything about not having to pay EU-VAT for imports. What I said was that the charges, (if they said they were taken care of), were already included in the price you see at the time of checkout, where it shows the final price. You have no idea who is handling the "payment processing" for them. Some services, like paypal and some credit-cards, do this processing for you, behind the scenes.

If THEY are committing EU-VAT fraud... then that is not YOUR problem anyways, as long as YOU pay YOUR VAT, then you are covered. If the VAT you paid, was already paid, then YOU get a VAT return. (Since that would be you paying taxes twice. Just as I am responsible for MY taxes, if the person selling to me, has not charged me taxes. If they did, and I pay more, I get it back when I file a tax-return.)

In any event, it is still YOU paying the VAT, if VAT is required. Either prior to the sale (built into the price), or at the point of import, or post-delivery. Which are the three legal/valid points of payment.

Off topic... sort-of... (On topic to the last few posts.)

And now you know why BTC is growing in popularity. Now you also know why America cut the chains from British-rule/European-rule. (Only to damn themselves with British/European-like rule, that was local. lol. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.)

In any event, the next batch seems to be ordering now. Double-check directly with AMT if you have questions about VAT being covered, or if it is needed. (Since it could just be included in the price, or the units could just be shipping from within EU itself, thus not an import.)

As for the rest, who are expecting shipping soon... They have said there were possible slight delays, when they were posting a few posts back. (Holiday congestion and storms and production hiccups. Though, they said it was only a 1-2 week hiccup, I believe.) Units have gone out before, are still going out, and have been arriving. Some of the owners are also members here. Not all who purchased units are members of this forum. I have seen about eight members here, orders around #500 - #1000, admit to making a purchase. Me being one of them.

I am sure the rest of the people who purchased are about as interested in the forums, as a cat is interested in water. Less, now that all this B.S. and petty crap is thrown around the only "Official post", which was redacted, then re-titled by a MOD. (Thus, is no longer an official post, since the OP has given up on playing reindeer games with the children of the forum.)

So, in essence, this is the "Official Thread: AMT", which is, by re-possession, officially the MODs post.

I will personally be posting my full break-down and review and mods, for the 1.2THs miner, in another thread. This thread is just wasted space now, and should be locked until it dies, after having the title stripped again. Since it wasn't AMT that re-titled it, and a non-owner/non-employee re-titled it.

Dumb-ass, My QUOTE is right from the legal pages of the EU-VAT pages, found from google, made by the EU-GOVT. So you are calling the EU-GOVT a liar, not me.

Follow the links above the quotes. That is sort of standard quotation, to show sources. I can't help it if your own country screws you, limiting you with crappy taxes and telling you what you can spend your money on. Because my country does similar things to me.

I buy things, I sell things, I pay MY taxes, I charge you MORE when your country tells me I have to pay YOUR taxes for you. That is just how the world works. Not every place online has only ONE shipping location. Like they said, the location they are at, is just an OFFICE, not a factory. You personally have no clue where the units are coming from, what country, or who is assembling them. They do.

If you noticed, they simply stopped answering these stupid questions. They answered them once, and now it is just up to you make a decision and order something, or ignore it. If you ordered, you just have to wait the time they stated, and all will be good. If it isn't good, then you do what other normal people do, contact them. (Forums are not a business point of contact. They are a public-forum for chatting about something.)

I do know how VAT works.

Again, you morons are just morons. I pulled the links and quotes right from the EU-VAT legal pages. (Zaghomo, you just contradicted yourself, and said the exact same thing I just did.)

Obviously, you guys still have nothing else better to do, than create fictitious situations that don't exists, and pretend they do. So I will let you continue to play in your fantasy world.

Don't order. It's just that simple. The longer you wait to order something from anyone, the less you will have anyways. Your ignorance will only ensure you have nothing, or only debt, so I am glad that you don't think they are legit. Less competition for me, for mining.

AMT wins either way. I win either way. You just lose... Again...

Shipping on the days before Christmas is a nightmare. I am sure they are "trying", or have already shipped, but just not updated your shipping information yet. Don't hesitate to give them a call, and be sure to leave your order-number and a contact number. (Hit them right back in a reply from that e-mail they sent you.)

Delivery is not a flop, because of a few days... Miners have already gone out, and are arriving in peoples hands. A flop is when no-one gets a miner, and everyone waits for months later. Like you stated, with BFL. That was just a horrible disaster. Even worse was the units from BFL that got delivered, and are all failing and no-where near specs, and not getting refunds or returns. (Though, some have reported they did get replacements, a month later, after returning, at their own additional shipping costs.)

You got an e-mail, at least... those of us waiting, stuck in "processing", don't even have anything to confirm the order was "accepted". (Poor wording, as I assume they intended the word "processing" to actually be "processed". Though, it does not have the same meaning. I paid, I hope it is done processing! lol.)

And VAT is handled by the SHIPPING, which is stated at the time of the purchase. Thus, invoiced. Thus, as they stated, "taken care of".

But if they are shipping from EU, where the chips are made, and possibly some of the miners... Then they DO NOT have to pay VAT, since that is EU to EU shipping. Again, "taken care of".

They didn't say they are not paying VAT, they said YOU are not going to be required to pay VAT. It is an option for businesses to chose to pay it, by including it in the price, or let the customer pay it. Obviously, they said they have it taken care of. If they don't, then what does it matter, you pay the VAT. YOU are ordering it from another country and being penalized/taxed for it. It is YOUR job to pay YOUR taxes. VAT is YOUR tax for buying something from a non-EU location. To them, it is simply a deductible refund.

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/how_vat_works/index_en.htm
Indirect tax on YOU. (You are the one paying, as with any other tax. Even if they are the ones paying on your behalf. Again, that is only if they don't ship you your miner from EU itself.)

Also...

There is also mention of "Things made in EU, being exported, then re-entering EU", which makes those certain items a zero-deduction, or lower VAT rate. (Eg, producing something in EU, sending it to another country for assembly, and returning it, for zero-VAT, or VAT-exempt.) At any rate, if they say it is covered, then it is covered.

Um, because they are shipping an EU-product to EU, possibly from EU... dumbass. Thus, no VAT, or "They are not charging VAT, because it is already included in the price." Not 100% sure, but if it was MFG in EU, and shipped to EU, I think that qualifies it for "non VAT goods". Doesn't take long to fly over there and assemble a few machines at a friends house/office. Also doesn't cost them that much, for them, if they value the boards at the prices they paid for them. (Just because YOU pay $6000 for the item, doesn't make the VAT they pay, on $6000. That is only if they don't pay it, then you get charged on that price, as that is the only price you have proof of, for value. It is not the same for a business. Who also does not pay "consumer-level shipping prices.")

Seems you are confusing "individual MSRP", with "volume purchases". THEY are not paying what YOU pay, when you buy just 1-8 miners. THEY have worked out a deal, buying THOUSANDS of boards, for less than MSRP. Do you think Best-Buy is getting alien-ware computers for $3,000 and selling for $3,000, because the website says $3,000. That is what the website charges a single customer, if they are dumb enough to pay for it from that website. The stores get the computers for about $1,500 and sell for $2,800 which is how stores often sell cheaper than the websites. Why, because they are buying in bulk, and because the price MSRP on the website makes the store price of $2,800 look like a bargain.

Miners are the same thing. BFL will gladly sell you ONE or TEN for $22,000. However, if you call them and say, "Hey, I want 2,000 miners.", they will not hesitate to sell them for $11,000 each, because it is only about $2,000 in physical equipment. Same with all ASIC chips. Now that they are in full production, I am sure the hardware costs are down to about 1/10th the asking price. So we, by demand, are paying 1000% more then it costs to produce them, from the MFG, as a small-order consumer. Welcome to the world of technology.

(Though I still suspect BFL of using your hardware, and delaying shipment, because they were simply mining with your hardware first. For the purpose of getting more BTC. Thus, using the customers for their own "stock" of miners, and subsequently, using them to purchase the used miners, once they were essentially worthless to mine with. Even the block-chain reinforced that theory. After shipping all the units, difficulty never climbed. But prior to shipment, it skyrocketed. How did that happen?!?!?! lol. Oh, they were just testing them for three months, to be sure it worked. lol.)

I-phone costs of production is about $45-$65, sells for $450-$650 each. Buy 10,000 of them, you get them for only $225-$325 each. buy 100,000 and you get them for $112.50-$162.50 each.

Puppet, you are seriously living up to the title of your name... you are a puppet. You have no interest in buying, so just go away. Go buy more 7970's dressed-up as new cards, paying the same price for the same power-hungry cards, and go back to mining alt-coins. You obviously got burned by buying an overpriced ASIC, and need someone to take it out on. Go take it out on the person responsible for your actions... You.

As for delays... those delays are on NEW ORDERS... AMT has had these orders in for months. Those delays are not for units previously purchased, those delays are for units/chips being purchased now. Because of the volume of OLD PURCHASES that had to be filled. (Of which, AMT is part of.) Thus, why everyone is pushing back dates, and prices.

P.S. That multi-million dollar cash-out that just happened over the last few hours... Guess what that was for... Purchasing more miners, in bulk. (Not at a consumer level.) Expect a big BTC value price hike soon. Along with a future massive Diff-hike by income-tax time, in the 2nd week of March. (See the trend?) BTC to $6000... What will you have, miners making BTC, or BTC that you cashed-out, because you thought this price-hike was over? We went from millions of dollars listed on 15 exchanges, to billions of dollars listed on 38 in a month. Next will be trillions of dollars on 120 exchanges. (Which includes all the legitimate and larger forex exchanges now adopting BTC.)

P.P.S. AMT, update your website... Friday the 27th is over... Also, fix the Weight and Dimensions info for the 1.2THs... one says 18LBs, the other details says 8LBs... Sizes are also off an inch or two, between the two pages. (Redundant info anyways, list the info on one tab or the other, not both.)

P.P.P.S. Hardware is no longer growing exponentially, only the volume of hardware being purchased is growing exponentially, which will also soon stop. THs watches and cell-phones are coming, but that will be the last line of advancement. I-Miner coming soon, to a store near you! Walmart discount, $300, 100THs units, sold by the millions, right next to MP3-players and Tablets and Video-Games. Made in China, a day late and a dollar short. Release date, Summer 2015. Pre-order now!

I have a request... Can you please put "Huobi" as the primary "China value", since BTCChina is essentially a wash-out of an exchange. Using BTCChina as the "source of CNY value", would be like using BTCe as the source of USD value for comparison.

Also, for the alternate exchanges, that are of another currency, can you put the (Your preferred currency) value next to the actual currency value we are looking at. Just like you do for BTCChina, but on all, and at the chart-level also. That would make the charts more useful for comparison.

Last suggestion, the ability to "overlap" two charts values would be great. (Perhaps showing the "shadow-chart" as shades of blue, behind the chart we are using for comparison.)

Thank-you, JD

P.S. Love the charts and setup. Just wish it showed more volume depth on the side of the graph, or had an option to adjust QTY of volume, for the volumes we trade at. (EG, I trade by 100's, so I need to see 1000's of volume, not only 400 volume.)

I am still quite sure that the "delays", are related more to "Dick multi-millionaire paid millions for priority batch shipping", thus, resulting in small orders being pushed back. Those seven multi-million dollar cash-outs happened for a reason, and it wasn't because they wanted cash, I am sure.

That, or they may have decided to do what BFL did, and "test them" for a month before actual release... You know, for testing purposes. (To get BTC while the ROI is high. LOL.)

That, along with suddenly getting 1,000,000 orders for individual boards, when they could only produce 10,000 a day, I am sure has to be part of the issue. (Not AMT, Coincraft.)

I also notice coincraft, like KNC, doesn't sell PSU's. The specs for the same machines as the 1.2THs are roughly the same as these, and DO go up to about 2THs in turbo. (But that does require 4x the power.) So my assumptions that the units would come with almost 44-48 chips seems to be spot-on.

Can't wait to see if they lower the prices today at AMT, like coincraft has done. That would be nice.

As I understand it, they have paid a company to MFG the boards. They, unlike BFL, are not assembling the boards themselves. The photo's on flicker show the boards already assembled in Bulgaria, at a factory. The assembly they are doing in-house, is configuring the network-boards to work with X-number of miner-boards, and connecting the physical components. (Same thing alien-ware does for Dell now. Alien-ware does not manufacture anything, they are just assemblers of existing components.)

I am sure the boards are being designed by someone with the tools and the knowledge to do so. Might even be coincraft themselves doing the MFG of the boards, to match the chips. (To the specs of the clients.)

In any event, the only thing that matters is the delivery and the final operating results of delivered materials. Doesn't matter who made them, or how they were made, if they function and are guaranteed. Though, I am sure that anyone has the ability to do this in a basement. Location is irrelevant. It is not like they are producing millions of units themselves. I would actually find that to be "unbelievable", if they claimed such an impossible feat. However, assembly is easily possible, by the thousands. (I know, I have worked in a factory that was essentially a "garage", producing thousands of hand-assembled items, which includes 100% quality-control checking to ISO certified standards.) Plugging a USB into a USB connector and screwing-in a fan-mount and plugging-in a power-connector, does not take much "skill" or time.

Waiting for parts to arrive, to assemble, opening boxes, checking connections, configuring and testing, repacking and mailing, takes a lot more time.

I guess this confirms the use of "Coincraft A1" chips...

Now all they need to do is sell the assembled miner boards, and they will have a massive market ready to buy them in bulk!

From what I understand the "Close-out", is how they are saying, "End of this batch". The next batch should have new delivery dates, and may or may-not have a new price... It already went up from $5,599.00 to $5,999.00... Might go up again, or back down, or get an upgrade to design for a new model. We won't know until after Friday.

I think we lost our chance of getting real direct answers due to the senseless troll-posts and accusations of being fake, to being part of a secret organization, to being in a whole other country, to having impossible specs on hardware. Not as funny to them, as it is to us. But equally as frustrating to deal with.

^^^ What he said...

Binaries are for programmers, not users... Why would we (users) want to compile?

Leave the technical-crap on git-hub, programmers know where to find that junk... Users want actual user-crap, and have no clue how to do that programming junk.

(TLC) Love it... but don't love it more than it loves you!

Give a little TLC to everyone! Just a little...

Three years from now, this is going to be impossible to mine!

Should have made 2-min blocks... and have it adjust per diff. But 2x doubler reward is great! Now, where can I exchange this for tulips? My GF is mad at me, I need to get her some...

Wait, it says "Abbreviated TCS"... I am confused... TCS or TLC, the title says TLC?!?!

Why would you HAVE to buy a whole BTC? That isn't a limit or restriction.

You can always buy a $1 worth of bitcoin for a $1, even when BTC reaches $100,000,000.00 per BTC, that would be 0.00000001 BTC. (I believe I did that math right... $1.00/USD * 0.00000001BTC/USD = $100,000,000.00/BTC)

By that time, a dollar will only be worth a penny, and the "Dollar Menu" at McDonalds will be the "Hundred-Dollar Menu". That, or the "0.00000100BTC Menu"...

If you want to feel more rich, you buy LTC or one of the hundred other alt-coins instead. That, or keep using FIAT. But 1 BTC will fit in your pocket easier.

This needs to be a historic quote for bitcoins, somewhere in a WiKi... Love it.