Monero has view keys to allow transparency.
Thats the problem - not the solution. You said, "On the other hand if your [ sic] exchanging money then you want your transaction as *transparent as possible* while using a monetary medium that's as *fungible* as possible." So what is it? I will ignore the non sequitur and ask, "What if I *don't* want my transactions transparent to begin with?" |
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DASH has anonymity ADDED as a FEATURE.
XMR has anonymity BUILT-IN TO THE PROTOCOL as a FUNCTION.
So next time, if anyone asks which coin is more "anonymous", I think you guys have an answer right here.
Thats why I didn't invest in XMR. Because it's run by a couple of trainspotters who don't understand money. If you're communicating nuclear secrets then you want your message encrypted for sure. On the other hand if your exchanging money then you want your transaction as *transparent as possible* while using a monetary medium that's as *fungible* as possible. Historically, gold worked as money, not because it was easy to hide transactions, but rather because it was ultimately fungible due to its low melting point. That meant that for the most part gold coins represented the currency of the day but had an additional insurance policy that they could be melted down to create a new monetary medium when required that retained none of its historical baggage. (Because governments just stole all the gold cons, melted them down and made new ones. What made gold "money" wasn't the fact that it could be hidden, it was the fact it could be ultimately melted down and used for a new purpose). Darkcoin / Dash's evolution has been characterised by monetary priorities - not cryptographical ones - which is why it is starting to emerge as a "useable" monetary medium rather than an interesting lab experiment. Dash is an electronic monetary medium which inherits gold's exact properties of "optional fungibility". In addition, it has 2 enhancements over gold: [1] - 'the physical" can travel through wires [2] - you don't need a 'smithy'. You can "melt" it yourself right in your wallet by passing it through up to 16 rounds of optional, pre-emptive darksend (or you can keep it in coins !) To have implemented - on an electronic platform - a form of money that inherits the "Satoshi" principles in every respect while adding the insurance of "meltdown and recreate" IMO is pretty amazing. I've spend two years on these forums and a lot more learning how science works. These are my conclusions (which are no different from what most people have drawn): [1] - smooth & fluffypony: A couple of trainspotting charlatans who can't decide if they want to sell furniture for mining rigs, marketing hype for Vertcoin or recycled cryptonote fodder [2] - Evan Duffield: A person who will go down in history as having changed the world of finance. Monero has view keys to allow transparency. The fungibility is an inherent feature of not being able to differentiate one Monero from another (without first voluntarily sharing a view key), fungibility of which that is dependent upon a protocol level proven anonymization process. |
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so i just wanted to point out that there is the potential for some small amount of information to be leaked by people using very specific mixin values. for example, for 2 transactions which both used a mixin value of 23 might be surmised that its more likely than a random sample that these two transactions were initiated by the same party. standardized mixin denominations offering a range of options might be preferable. 3, 5, 7, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, ect.... (just as an example) plenty of flexability there. its unlikey that someone who wants more than 20 mixin couldnt be happy with 25 and would feel very strongly that they wanted 22 very specifically. so in this way there would be little cost to the user in inconvenience, but potentially reasonable gain to the privacy of the network for that very small inconvenience cost.
So in other words randomize the mixin count? How does a tx's mixin count get traced back to the initial or final tx? |
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Well, people like me appreciate the analysis.
Then analyse this: I added two numbers together to produce a result of 8. Which two were they ? (Clue: I mixed them - no cryptography involved, so should be easy for you  ) It will be easy if I put a gun to your head and force you to tell me. Hence the masternode centralization concern. The gun-to-the-head argument also applies to any coin, including Monero, in terms of giving up keys, access, or association to information. But the difference is, if you hold up every Monero miner, due to blockchain anonymity, you still can't deanonymize the network's keyholders...I think. |
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If the emission curve puts us at just under 16,000 XMR per day - https://moneroeconomy.com/wiki/emission-rate, we will be at roughly at 11,000 at the end of 2015, then 6500 at end of 2016. (I think I read 80% of the emission occurs in the first 4 years, so 3 years left.) XMR are disappearing and quick. 16,000 XMR at .003 costs about 48 BTC per day. That is pretty much nothing considering this market is just starting (and even in USD). I don't think that kind of buy support is difficult to attain. As long as we keep getting volume and attention, I think the price should steadily increase (as long as whales help!). Consider, more people are coming into the field and in 8 months or so the emission will decrease by around 31% but demand probably will grow. Just do the math, excluding outside forces (e.g. other coins, economic collapse, legal issues, etc.) and we should be ok. Just taking into account the current demand sustaining and yet the supply decreasing, we should experience stable growth (as long as we don't go above a fair valuation. .003 is for sure not overvalued. We can probably hit .01 BTC and still be undervalued, at current BTC prices. I'm curious, those of you more familiar with this area, what are your thoughts regarding the variables involved (e.g. reduction in emission, miners, whales, regular "Joes", price points, etc.)? How do you see things going forward? IAS Most people that are currently mining XMR are doing so at a loss (electricity costs exceed revenue). The only logical explanation on what they do with the XMR they mine is that they hold the XMR, in expectations that it will increase in value. I can say this because I'm a miner also. Then why not buy at market instead until equilibriation? Seems like a good opportunity to me. I suppose someone will p.s.: what is the break even price, if you'd so kindly  |
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I don't understand how anyone could not interpret the instamine to be a scam:
1) Evan tells everyone to go to sleep, and that he "definitely" won't launch without notice.
2) He launches a couple hours later, while everyone is asleep. Linux only btw.
3) Over a million coins are mined in 8 hours.
4) Soon later the block reward is dramatically reduced to a small fraction of what it was.
I truly can't fathom how anyone could even try to downplay this.
It makes more sense now, because folks want to protect their investment. But it's astonishing that anyone continued to support him at all when this first came to light.
And I think I know a pyramid scheme when I see one...: http://darkcoin.guide/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/masternode_payment_plan.pnghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMM-2011You just have to get registered (and get your bonus $20 as a registration gift),
join the System, 'buy' your MAVRO money, and keep on lying on your couch and
watching how rapidly your capital grows in value, with up to 20 or 30% of gain a month.
(Note that your deposit grows even faster, up to 75% each month.)[5] As Mavrodi explains, "There is a virtual currency called Mavro which constantly rises in price from 20 to 75 per cent a month. This price only I can set. Some individuals exchange money between themselves, without any obligations, guarantees or conditions – it is a fundamental point".[6] The feature of this pyramid is the method of cash flows movement. As Aleksey Yaroshevsky of Russia Today explains in his article, "When there is no legal entity, no joint account, no office – in other words everything is shared between millions of private accounts – it means no one can put an end to it..." [6] Mavrodi claims his actions are legal; Ukraine’s politicians disagree. The ruling party wants current laws tightened to block the MMM from making off with vulnerable people's nest eggs.[6] |
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nice it looks like good work., any chance we see Monero on it?
Sure, Monero is a good candidate since it has a good amount of trade volume. I'll try to get it in the next release or two. I think the bigger deal is having a trustless protocol for people to exchange bitcoins for XMR (when seeking financial privacy) and XMR for BTC (to access more merchants). |
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People dont read posts that are too long. Quite the opposite, at least in my case. I long noticed a strongly (but not absolute) positive correlation between the length of a post and its usefulness. The overall tendency seems to be a function of critical thinking faculties. |
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Monero is a good coin but its outdated imo. We are heading towards a path that requires much more than this project can offer.
best of luck
Mods, please bear with me, but I would actually like to give fearcoka about 10 lines to tell about Shadowcash distribution. The subject fascinates me and doing it right is the most important thing I seek in a coin (team is second, tech is third and availability of a wallet is a bonus). Mods are just deleting every criticism against this coin, they just deleted my comment again wtf, heres what you need to know about Shadow(scam)cash distribution: http://pastebin.com/S7aKCDgySo you can tell the balance of SDC wallets? |
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Interestingly, an increasing number of researchers in top US economics departments think cash should be eliminated, but for an entirely different reason: it lets you avoid negative interest rates. If all money was electronic and had to be held in state-regulated banks, then zero* is no longer the lower bound on interest rates as a monetary policy tool. So you continually lose your savings and have no choice in the matter, but supposedly recessions will become easier to fight. * In reality, it's more like -0.5% than 0% because of the practical difficulty of storing very large amounts of cash. But there is already a fix for recessions (default)  but of course external funds-reliant "top US economics departments" would want to socialize failures (or systematic collapses) in monetary policy for the benefit of the central banks So a bit paradoxically, as the nominal value of fiat in that case decreases, "real" paper fiat value increases. |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but this behavior is the antithesis of what the Monero Project is working against.
Then, on the theory that the enemy of my enemy is my friend, it must be very closely aligned with what the project is about, eh? I understand that by breaching one's privacy as such is kind of a way to show the value of privacy through Monero, but there's still, in my opinion, something wrong about not respecting people's privacy in the first place. We should not be the ones doing it to coerce, for lack of a better word, people to consider Monero. |
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Who holds all the bitcoins in this blockchain?
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I also emailed everyone I (personally) know about Monero in November when MyMonero launched. Offered them free monero if they signed up but nobody did it. Now I followed up again the other day, and this is the only response I got. (from a a smart professional person) "I'm moving to the desert to do drugs and leaving all technology behind." Monero is still a difficult pitch for the average person that doesn't care about privacy, doesn't use bitcoin yet, etc. Investors are needed for Monero. I am convinced in the world exists money enough to buy up the Monero and rise the marketcap significiantly. The problem is to find those people. A good way to make money is to try to find local rich people's contact details and start contacting them (not explaining things in technical jargon but in the language of average Joe), then find the right people and sell them coins with markup which is your salary. You might get nice hourly wage in this way by the way. Just tell them you are not accepting less than 30 000 usd investments per person.  This is kind of a morally depraved way of going out about this, just because it reeks of solicitation, an ugly situation to put someone in. Please could you give some arguments on why is it immoral to sell xmr to millionaires with sums they will even bother to consider investing. You are ridiculing a guy who is worth 1 million usd if you offer him an investment for 1000. Also seller needs comissions and there is not much possible to earn if you are selling only smaller amounts. Look again at your stated intention for finding investors: "A good way to make money is to try to find local rich people's contact details and start contacting them (not explaining things in technical jargon but in the language of average Joe), then find the right people and sell them coins with markup which is your salary." Correct me if I'm wrong, but this behavior is the antithesis of what the Monero Project is working against. By doing this, one targets those he/she knows are rich, with no respect towards their privacy, primarily to solicit for their money simply because one knows they're rich and already deemed they could live without some amount of this money, without mind towards any other regard. This doesn't even attract the best kind of investor (read: educated) for Monero. If these rich people did not agree to be solicited for investments, then leave them alone. If you, however, have built up a good reputation for others' wealth management, and people come to you asking for investment advice at their own accord, more power to you. |
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an ugly situation to put someone in.
Have you heard of Monero? It's the situation of a lifetime, Mister. Depends how you go about it. Good intentions pave the road to hell, is all. You can't guarantee Monero's outcome, or even someone's own outcome with Monero (e.g. lost wallet). And this is if you're genuine about the technology and philosophy. But if you're like TrueCryptonaire here, it sounds like he/she just wants sheep to fleece. |
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Ever have a neighborhood kid come by and solicit you to buy shitty knives or chocolates of some company in the name of supporting whatever sympathizable cause? ...similar feeling, but good luck having the same appeal when you're some middle aged dude cold calling a stranger
And it's just an invasion of privacy unless these people are in some contact list they agree to be in for such solicitations.
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I also emailed everyone I (personally) know about Monero in November when MyMonero launched. Offered them free monero if they signed up but nobody did it. Now I followed up again the other day, and this is the only response I got. (from a a smart professional person) "I'm moving to the desert to do drugs and leaving all technology behind." Monero is still a difficult pitch for the average person that doesn't care about privacy, doesn't use bitcoin yet, etc. Investors are needed for Monero. I am convinced in the world exists money enough to buy up the Monero and rise the marketcap significiantly. The problem is to find those people. A good way to make money is to try to find local rich people's contact details and start contacting them (not explaining things in technical jargon but in the language of average Joe), then find the right people and sell them coins with markup which is your salary. You might get nice hourly wage in this way by the way. Just tell them you are not accepting less than 30 000 usd investments per person. This is kind of a morally depraved way of going out about this, just because it reeks of solicitation, an ugly situation to put someone in. |
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Those people in the dark coin thread are crazy! Its like some sort of cult or something over there. They all have me blocked but I did nothing that could be construed as trolling. They think it was part of some sort of elaborate plan, that i was "laying spider webs" and that it was going to all climate in some sort of very clever troll trap.
It's actually really bad because I run something of a little business on bitcoin talk by selling my impeccable reputation and I cant have people ignoring me. In fact I was tip toeing around the whole time precisely because of this. But it's just apparently SO easy to offend their delicate sensitivities that i somehow managed to do it.
*edit* part of me wants to go over there and try to repair the damage i somehow caused but the smarter part of me knows that if i do ill make things worse.
Don't worry, their rhetoric, or lack of it, is ugly and unappealing to neutral newcomers. It'll work itself out. |
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3 subjects lol, wow to even get a basic t-test of this proof you would need at least 30 ppl for a weak application of statistical validity to apply.
Also fine go ahead I will pay up, it will just prove your stop-gap is so shit you have to pay people to vote for it. A "weak"? Also, are we talking about face validity or just conclusion validity? Part of me wonders if you're not alluding to some sort of convergent validity that would be expected from this. But, really, I was just talking about a relatively simple acid test, best-of-3 to ensure there's no accidental skew. For $500. Would you like to suggest someone that is known and unbiased that can hold our funds in escrow and facilitate this? I suggest we offer them 50% of the pot for the effort they'll need to expend, and the remaining 50% goes to the winning cryptocurrency's donation address. Clearly you need to brush up on statistics and the importance of sample size. But I would be happy for a poll on Bitcointalk to decided this, limited to users with at least 50 posts. If the poll reaches 800 users and the result is 60% in your favor I will be happy to say you have won the the bet. Poll Question - Is a working GUI wallet better than Moneros current Stop-gap solution? A)Yes B)No As for holding the funds in escrow I am happy with those terms and any of the bigwigs in the darkcoin thread works for me. But the question leaves out the reasoning. It's not black and white A, yes, because more is better But if yes is at the expense of the actual underlying engine behind the skin, then of course not, and it ignores the fact that there are several implementations of Monero GUIs. |
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Almost everything is free. Energy is free. Even the ability to access the energy is free. However, the actual accessing of the energy is the thing that is not free. *if the accesser is not free |
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