Monero has been around for a lot longer than that ... a year now maybe?


I like Monero - it's only one of two cryptos I'm interested in.  All of the trolling and drama you just gotta try to cut thru the shit.  Go read on the history of cryptonote, what the bitcoin devs have said about it then further specifically Monero.  It's all there - just dig a little and you'll understand why it's attracted the attention of some of the old players and developers.

Why it keeps attracting drama I'm not sure.  We have one of these "Lets see how many Monero posts we can get on the front page (Positive, negative, complaining about the number of posts, etc) every three months or so like clockwork.

Here is what happens.

Anti Monero trolls who hate Monero start making stupid "Monero is gonna take over the world"

lovable pro Monero trolls decide it's probably Darkcoin so they start anti Darkcoin threads

All Darkcoin people get pissed at Monero and start anti monero threads.

Random trolls get involved and create new accounts and post random shit with Monero in the title.

It's just this classic pissing contest that happens on occasion that has nothing to do with price. 

FYI - Ethers are as different from bitcoins as oil is from gold.  Ethereum platform is as different from the bitcoin platform as banking is from law.   OP is stupid.

But.  If bitcoin doesn't get it's political & scaling shit together it will eventually be overtaken.  

"Bitcoin is supreme because it's been around for six years.  Your shitcoin will never replace it - bitcoin is better."  

"Why is it better?"  

"Because it will always be the leader since it's always been the leader."

Bitcoin maximalists as a general rule give arguements that're as sound as the OP.

ah awesome thanks!

It's irritating to me that I can't see the market without having a verified (passport pictures) account.  I'm more interested in how deep the order book is between the $1 & $2 mark than the top bid.

A better indicator than ethercoin ... still tough to know much till buyers and sellers start getting matched.

On pricing there is no way 180 million at $3 will be on the sell side either.  So it's tough to have any idea on how it will balance out

 I think there are many of us who are much more interested in supporting and being part of the of long term goals ... 100k tps, decentralized Uber etc than turning a quick buck over something that had a super high risk of dying during a 12 month maturation cycle.  

What IS going on with sidechains?  You have a link or something?  Seems like it's been in discussion for forever ...

Isn't it going to require bitcoin to change some code?  Is it even possible to get consensus to do that at this point?

I disagree with this.  If Bitcoin invested heavily in sidechains or found out a way to make the blockchain scalable then I would agree with you.  With the storage / bandwidth requirements I feel counterparty is just spamming the network for something bitcoin wasn't intended for and creating problems for everyone else.

I wish the bitcoin maximalists would put their weight heavily towards sidechains to improve anonymity & scalability with the same passion that they dislike other initiatives.  I actually think trying to create wealth out of thin air via altcoins the way bitcoin did is horrific for adoption but there really isn't any other choice if people want innovation at this point.

 Crowdsale / IPO.  They did have a massive legal research period (which is more than most) to make sure they were legal.  (Might make blatantly fucking people over more difficult ... or not).

Also they delivered PoC before they sold - now they are just creating the genesis block (after a year of further development and testing.)



Yeah - possible.  If the network effects choose a different coin the Eth team is ok with that.  They understood from the beginning & felt open source was still the only way to go.  IBM has already forked Ethereum - a few banks & warehouse type companies have also forked their own private chain for testing.  Counterparty forked and put Ethereum on the Blockchain.

I'm pretty sure the consensus will go with the original devs as long as they are producing code to make it more scalable, faster, more stable etc (but again - that's just all assumption on my part & I am biased.  Or maybe I've seen too many bitcoindark and lightcoincounterpartydarkcoindoge's to have much faith in copies.)

A few points -
1 - 15 min 1mb blockchain limits are not scalable for smart contracts.  I did the math on just Uber (one of the few low hanging fruits of smart contracts).  Even with it's own blockchain multiples more effeciant than Bitcoin Ethereum would struggle.  You want to put Uber on the dinasour of bitcoin?  It's a lose lose for all involved - if Bitcoin wants to be the single currency then they need to get rolling on sidechains.

2 - Ethereum builds counterparty in 340 lines of code. - https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2mb6bt/ethereum_builds_counterparty_in_340_lines_of_code/

The difference is that Counterparty forks (copied the code) while Ethereum recreated the Counterparty code inside their platform (Big difference). 

^ this.

Monero may be the altcoin of arrogant, rich, asshole early adopters - but it isn't a scam.  The pump accusations need to take a hard look at the emissions schedule to see it's pure stupidity to make that accusation.

Half the threads are from pro-monero knucklehead trolls.  Other half are from anti Monero trolls.  

At the end of the day I still have more use for trolls (pro & anti) than scammers.

The only reason people give a shit about bitcoin is because they don't trust banks.  Price is mostly driven by the neckbeard libertarians and gold bugs.

Bitcoin is more inconvenient, more volatile, more likely to be stolen, slower to move and a host of other things than dirty fiat.  And yet it still attracts a lot of interest because it's global internet money.

The idea of anyone caring about a bank coin haha    All of the disadvantages - none of the advantages.   

Most altcoins have ALWAYS been a joke (glance back to the days of solidcoin).  

There have been a few innovations.

Litecoins p2p pools, NXT & Counterparty, Cryptonote.

If you don't remember that 99% of what's going on in here are people trying to leave you holding a bag with something they created from nothing.  Then you aren't thinking right.

Also - most of the innovation has moved out of the altcoin forums.  AT, Ethereum, sidechains, etc.  

"Pumping and dumping" and "Highly inflationary PoW" both offset.  Inflationary PoW rewards miners.  Limited supply rewards big holders / pump and dumpers.  These are goals that fight against each other.

The pre-sale lasted a full month with a test client already built.  If the founders intending to create panic buying - they did a poor job of it.  They DID do a good job of maximizing their bitcoin raising potential (which again - seems to offset the accusation of intentionally creating panic buying while limiting supply) at the expense of being able to create panic buying now.  

Any current demand has been created by the completion of the project and taking away the risk that existed at the time of pre-sale.  Not the limiting of supply.  If there's an accusation - it should be that they maximized their bitcoin raising potential at the expense of letting people capitalize on panic buying (the accusation you are making).  Again - the way things were done don't work towards creating a panic buying scenario.  


It's a high enough profile project (outside of bitcointalk forum) with enough funds raised that I would suspect after nearly two years in the making something like this would exist already somewhere.  If you find or make something - link it here & I'll put it in the OP!  I would be highly interested in reading it.


Fair criticism.  Looks like about the same distribution as litecoin.

There is more than one way to look at this.  

The bitcoin creator owns a larger fraction of bitcoin than all of the Ethereum developers put together will.  How is that different in practical terms that affect the currency?

Ninjamines create a practical mining reward (ownership) that often goes to the creator.

Premines do the same thing.

Insider trading combined with pump and dumps (Truckcoin changed to Hypercoin with emissions and EVERYTHING changed ... dozens of these examples) also often does the same thing.

IPO's just put a public face on what's always going on under the table.  Everything is almost always a scam around here.  IPO's are just one flavor.

You can't ban IPO's without censoring free speech.  Where do you stop it - do you ban donations to projects (this message board for instance?)  People holding their projects hostage until they receive X amount of funding?  Premines?

Even if you disagree with IPO's - if the funds go to developers creating open source code.  When and if their project dies (or even if it doesn't) - the new cryptocurrency features can be copied to a non IPO coin (there's nothing keeping someone from doing this with Ethereum - it has been 100% open source since day 1).

You are honestly suggesting a ban on free speech / open market (buying and selling based on promises) and a ban on how most of the funding is going into crypto (greed)?

Do we ban pre-mines too?  We have the cryptonote protocol that is perhaps the best thing to happen to anonymous fungible currency since bitcoin.  Other projects forked the code and created coins without the pre-mine - and it wouldn't have happened without a pre-mine.

I disagree with you.  Ethereum is the ONLY presale I have found not to be a scam or incredibly shady.  Thousands and thousands of lines of code, working client that supports more than any other crypto in regards to turing, employment of developers from solid industries (not fly by night anonymous usernames), reviews from reputable sources & devs who spent almost a year working on the PoC code BEFORE asking for a dime & then another year after they were funded.

I agree with you that 99 out of 100 IPO's are scams.  I disagree that censoring free markets helps cryptocurrency in any way.

What is it:

Ethereum raised $15,000,000 worth of bitcoin in exchange for ether tokens & is listed as the 3rd largest crowdsale on Wikipedia.  It is intended to be a turing complete contract programming language that enables trustless contractual transactions in a transparent way.

The goal of the project is to push towards decentralized applications for law, interperson commerce (eBay, Uber, Reputation Systems), financial applications (Decentralized exchange, crypto pegged to fiat / crypto futures, prediction markets) by providing a robust language that easily empowers developers to quickly, stably & scalably develop on top of the blockchain (the core functionality of Namecoin can be reproduced in 5 lines of code)

History:  

It was originally intended to be built on top of Primecoin when the concept first started.  On more research - Vitalik stated that it simply was not scalable enough.  The PoC development language was released prior to the presale in August of 2014.  The testnet has seen ongoing development for a year as well as people programming demo applications on top of the testnet.

(See People's Republic of Doug or IBM/Samsung ADEPT at CES)

Who is behind it:

Originally the brainchild of Vitalik Buterin

Audited by deja vu security

Cloned by IBM PoC on IoT

“Ethereum has vast potential, whereas Bitcoin won’t ever do anything well beyond implementing a currency,”  ~ Nick Szabo @ Business Insider

~ Vitalik Buterin

Issues


1.  I wish I could find the source.  But Charles Hopkins (who I loved btw) left the project around the time of the crowdsale.  Soon after - Ethereum marketing changed from what I described in original paragraph above to A platform for decentralized applications - Web 3.0

     Hopkins was fairly blunt about the scope creep of the project to try to include messaging, storage & ambiguous "everything to everyone decentralized web 3.0" wording.  Instead of a decentralized consensus language on top of the blockchain - Ethereum is now being marketed as "Web 3.0".  (I hope I'm not putting words in his mouth.)

2.   The release was originally supposed to be "Winter of 2014 / 2015".  During the final phase of testing over the last few months where the testnet was exposed to stress testing - there were a LOT of people with issues keeping up with the blockchain / blockchain forkings / etc.

3.   There is speculation that the Ethereum team is almost out of funding.  I believe I read somewhere that their burn rate will get them thru the end of 2015.  With current delayed timing that is probably only enough time to get Frontier working and somewhat stable.  No solid transparency of how crowdsale was spent outside of the continuing progress of the platform.

4.   There has been some controversy over the Ethereum team receiving both salaries & founder portions of Ether.  In addition to the Ether given to the Ethereum team - Ether was given to the Ethereum foundation to be sold to continue development.  Based on my research I didn't feel like it was out of line but others do.

Ethereum launch - Exchanges:

Happening (probably) this coming week.  Gatecoin Exchange is allowing buy order sides in this week.  

Poloniex has stated (by mods unofficially) that they will have Ethereum listed on launch.

Ethereum team has stated "Several exchanges will support Ethereum on launch"

Pricing

Ethercoin - which is an "I owe you" by a group of individuals who CLAIM to have purchased Ethers and that they will give them to Ethercoin holders on Ethereum launch is currently priced at 0.0118 / $3.25.  

Ethercoin is 100% unofficial, could be a scam - but also the volume on Ethercoin is extremely low compared to the REAL ethers floating around.  Price could be significantly more or less (it's just the only gauge I know of).


Why did you write all of this shit?

There are only two coins I'm currently interested in & this is one of them.  Ethereum has largely stepped OUT of the altcoin community due to the constant attacks.  Frankly - I don't blame the "toxic environment".  The "altcoin community" is so full of scams - there is 1 legit project per 100 scams.

This thread was to TRY to provide an ongoing honest look at the Ethereum project and have a place to discuss.  Negative opinions are welcome.  Positive opinions are welcome.  Pages and pages of repeated trolling OR circlejerking are not.

Anyway.  When you see a new coin pop up on coinmarketcap next week - now you know what it is :-)

He was an early adopter for bitcoin & calling the rise before others.  I believe he got his initial $$ for investment from dealing in precious medals as a seller.

He owns a castle in Estonia (I think) where bitcoin events / think tanks are held.  He's also interested in Monero.  

He was/is fairly high profile in the bitcoin speculation section of the forum I believe.  He & Anonymint were friends.  I believe David Lapite (however that's spelled) worked for him for a while.

Also he likes good cigars.  His attitude gets on my nerves sometimes - but he's been more successful than most of us when it comes to crypto.

Have the other cryptonotes implemented the fixes Peter Todd was complaining about - that Monero re-developed?

Thank you for the clarification.  Appreciate what you guys are accomplishing.