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1141  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency on: August 21, 2016, 10:43:49 AM
Yes 2 is the current minimum mixin is 2 but will be raised to 4.  Therefore it seems to me that 4 is a good recommended minimum now.  I use anywhere from 4 to 10.

Accepting a range as an input could be cool. If you always use the same value there is information leakage there. So its wise to use a random value within a comfortable range. However humans aren't good at random so it would be nice if the client could handle this. I'll submit this over in ideas I think.

There is little to no information leakage if you are using a commonly used amount. If you use 63 all the time and no one else does (or not many) then it is easy to pick out your transactions on the blockchain. Unless you really know what you are doing using the default is probably best, or maybe some other common small number like 5 or 10.
1142  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Service Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Steemit.com: Blogging is the new Mining on: August 21, 2016, 10:39:27 AM
is there still a chance to earn steem if I get to start writing there?
I'm curious to see how much i would be earning if I write one article per week to which I will also be promoting my own blog. is it allowed as well to link our own blog in the articles?

You can link to whatever you want. It is a decentralized system so there aren't really any rules. It is up to voters to decide whether they like what you have to offer. Mostly the problem is getting people to notice it at all in the enormous sea of posts. Without some sort of significant following you won't make much.
1143  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Speculation (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero Speculation on: August 21, 2016, 10:32:10 AM
...

@Heuristic there are no significant known or reasonably suspected problems with Curve25519. I have no idea where you are getting that from.


I read it from a guy. So why is Shen recommending ed's Twisted? All Crypto eventually gets broken, we all know this. The question is what are the contingency plans.

In almost all cases of non-stupid crypto the "breaking" takes the form of theoretical weaknesses that aren't practically usable for an actual attack until years later if ever, but reduce the security margin to an uncomfortable level. At that point you replace it with something else and people have ample opportunity to switch over. Nothing like that is even on the horizon right now.

I know Shen has been looking at various things, even post-quantum stuff. I have no idea how far long that exploration is at this point.


You should continue... we are not cryptographers. Are you saying that they have a backdoor to XMR?. Is this curve reemplazable in a common hard fork?


If by reemplazable you meant replaceable as I think you did then of course, anything can be changed with a hard fork.


We're at $2.46 ... can we please not talk about $1000?

The most likely scenario is that XMR will fail.

How?

It looks to me like there will be a replacement as the development progress has slowed to a crawl. Not to mention Diffie-Hellman elliptic Curve25519 is considered not safe.

Quote
I no longer trust the constants. I believe the NSA has manipulated them through their relationships with industry
— Bruce Schneier

Should I continue?

you are underestimating the amount of effort to build something like Cryptonote, it blows Zcash away, the darknet has spoken and its going with Monero.

about the curve, looks like you missed these commits.

A proposal to change to one of edwards twisted curves?  Has this been voted on? Set for a hard fork date? Ignored? Left to be implemented in a competing project? Which really brings up other questions along the lines of the ones I had that fluffy stopped answering.

That's not a change at all. What was done there is replace separate copy of the crypto library in Monero with the exact unmodified crypto library from its original source. That eliminates the possibility that the Monero crypto library was somehow modified to introduce a back door (though it has been reviewed and wasn't, this makes that fact more transparent)
1144  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] AEON 2nd gen cryptonote, anon, mobile-friendly, scalable, pruning on: August 21, 2016, 04:38:29 AM
I pushed website to https://github.com/sammy007/aeon-site

smooth, as far as I know it's possible to configure 2nd level domain and host it directly from github since it's jekyll. I think would be cool if you fork it and further updates will go through pull requests.

Yes, I agree that's a good approach. I will look into how the details work.

I like the GitHub hosting idea, but what are our best options for domain names?

aeon.cash (credit to sammy007 for picking that)
1145  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Steem pyramid scheme revealed on: August 21, 2016, 04:28:58 AM
Quote
One of my main concerns is that the system is not viable in the long run due to problematic reward scaling. In other words, if userbase goes 1000x to 70mn people, the marketcap must go to 1000x (that's 200 BILLION $) to keep up the rewards at current levels.

Why rewards should remain at the same levels as today? if userbase rises 1000x why should we also have 1000x more people earning thousands and hundrends of dollars per blog? I have not done any calculations but intuitively I don't think there is any problem with that, rewards are HUGELY overpriced right now.   

I don't disagree with the overpricing and part of the reason why payouts are high today is precisely because the reward pool is intended for a larger audience (as are the witness payouts - because the service provided right now is elemental from what some witnesses say).

But we have to remember payouts are high only for a very small number of authors. The others get peanuts. So the "peanuts effect" will go 1000x Tongue

I don't agree with your various statements about market cap entirely, but to the extent I do, I see this as an early adopter incentive, not very different from how mining usually works (blogging is considered a form of mining in Steem). It is often easier to mine more early on and this is by design, as an incentive to join a small network. With a larger network, less incentives are needed.

They have flat-lined at 5,000 daily users and Stan Larimer is a top "celebrity"...
But Dan is obsessed with tweaking his broken dollar peg that no one cares about.

Valid points. There is other development work going on though, I wouldn't base everything on what blog posts Dan decides to put up.

Then I have to power down and wait 104 weeks to get my full amount back. Of course, since I'm being paid back in weekly installments of Steem... by the time the 2 years pass the Steem inflation will be so high that whatever I get back in Steem will be worth peanuts. So essentially, I'm never getting the amount I power down... each payment will give you back the same # of Steem but they will be worth significantly less because of the ridiculous inflation and however the fuck "vests" work. No wonder the system is so complicated, it's starting to make sense where the money comes from

You make some valid points about the investment proposition overall, and many including existing investors have said the same thing. The above is wrong though. The portion of your SP that isn't yet powered down continues to get antidillution payments. Your weekly payments actually increase in terms of STEEM every week. This largely offsets the effect of inflation. In fact your outcome will largely be determined by what happens to the market price/demand, not inflation.
1146  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Service Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Steemit.com: Blogging is the new Mining on: August 21, 2016, 04:26:39 AM
I have a beginner (or idiot?) question, does Steem store articles in their blockchain or in an SQL database?

on the blockchain

To clarify, the text of articles and comments is on the blockchain. Any embedded media is stored as links. This makes the storage requirements not absurd, as most times the text itself is fairly small. In theory it is highly compressible too, though I'm not sure if the current implementation does that.
1147  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Speculation (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero Speculation on: August 21, 2016, 04:20:22 AM
We're at $2.46 ... can we please not talk about $1000?

The most likely scenario is that XMR will fail.

How?

Failure to continue to gain use adoption and investor demand, resulting in a terminal decline as participants bleed away to pursue solutions elsewhere. I don't see that happening at all right now, but that is the hypothetical.

Do you think Monero will rise to 1000 usd/xmr? How realistic you guys see it reaching 1000 usd (assuming btc is more or less the same as today)?
Zero chance. Don't be greedy.

I would say low but zero chance is also an absurd statement. 1000 USD/XMR would not even be a very high market cap by the standards of global assets. Absent failure, 1000 USD/XMR is likely.

@Heuristic there are no significant known or reasonably suspected problems with Curve25519. I have no idea where you are getting that from.
1148  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Service Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Steemit.com: Blogging is the new Mining on: August 17, 2016, 02:26:24 PM
I came across the following article which says there is a minimum vote weight for payouts.

https://steemit.com/steemit/@teatree/curation-payout-on-steemit-now-has-a-minimum-vote-weight

Is this true, and how does it work - the links in the article don't really give much information. Do you need 50 million vests per vote, or 50 million in total from all the votes?

Anyone have any idea?

The effect of this is that low-SP users can't reduce their vote weight from the default, but even minimum-balance accounts can still vote with the default weight. The change was made because some attacker was using cheap accounts with low-weight votes to spam the blockchain. That is now prevented.


i guess im a bit confused to how complete new commers will get curator reward now

In effect nothing changed for new singups. Their vote is the same. The change only affects "hackers" who were splitting the small vote in parts.

Correct. It isn't even something you could ever do via the web GUI. Only with CLI/API. Normal users are not affected at all by this change.
1149  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] AEON 2nd gen cryptonote, anon, mobile-friendly, scalable, pruning on: August 17, 2016, 07:34:33 AM
Keeping the zero mixin transactions is a great idea and a good differentiation from Monero.

This is one differential I would agree with, mixins increase fee size, 0 mixin would allow cheaper transactions while anyone wanting guaranteed anonymity would use a higher mixin

It is an under-appreciated advantage of Cryptonote that these transactions are significantly smaller and more efficient than Bitcoin.



Nice update, smooth.  Would you please go ahead and open a dialogue with poloniex and ask them to pick AEON up again? I think it would certainly help grow the coin and the community.

We will ask them to reenable AEON (they still have it listed in their wallet but it is disabled) once the rebase is complete. The main issue they have with supporting it is the high memory footprint, which will be resolved.
1150  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Service Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Steemit.com: Blogging is the new Mining on: August 17, 2016, 07:27:15 AM
I came across the following article which says there is a minimum vote weight for payouts.

https://steemit.com/steemit/@teatree/curation-payout-on-steemit-now-has-a-minimum-vote-weight

Is this true, and how does it work - the links in the article don't really give much information. Do you need 50 million vests per vote, or 50 million in total from all the votes?

Anyone have any idea?

The effect of this is that low-SP users can't reduce their vote weight from the default, but even minimum-balance accounts can still vote with the default weight. The change was made because some attacker was using cheap accounts with low-weight votes to spam the blockchain. That is now prevented.
1151  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Speculation (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero Speculation on: August 14, 2016, 05:43:00 AM
I have actually considered Bitcoin a much higher long term risk than Monero for over two years

From my perspective the main thing is the high price. You can't just look at this as coin-vs-coin, but you have to ask if a Bitcoin is really worth 300 times as much as Monero. Clearly Bitcoin is more established, more widely used, more widely held, etc. But 300 is a high ratio, and there is perhaps room for it to fall a lot and all the things I said in the previous sentence would still be true. Price matters.

1152  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] AEON 2nd gen cryptonote, anon, mobile-friendly, scalable, pruning on: August 13, 2016, 02:23:52 PM
I was working on a website for AEON recently.

Great work sammy007!
1153  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Steem pyramid scheme revealed on: August 13, 2016, 05:54:08 AM
I don't find liquidity to be all that low. You can easily trade $10Ks of both STEEM and SBD in a relatively short time with little problem. $100K if you are willing to move the market.

John McAfee said he declined to take a $600K investment because "you can buy in, but you can't get out". Perhaps he was referring to the STEEM POWER 2 year divestment delay?

Yes, when I first saw his comments I figured that's what he must have meant. Or maybe he waits to be able to trade out in an instant (in which case I agree with him), I don't know.
1154  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Steem pyramid scheme revealed on: August 13, 2016, 12:32:13 AM
What do you guys think of my list of the main problems of Steem?

I mostly agree with your points. I will quibble on a few details but that doesn't constitute overall disagreement.

Quote

Or is that the money supply was increasing 10 fold over the past months still at a 300% per annum rate, thus market cap is not a true indicator of the actual investor interest?

I don't find liquidity to be all that low. You can easily trade $10Ks of both STEEM and SBD in a relatively short time with little problem. $100K if you are willing to move the market.

It is slightly lower than other coins with similar market cap, but within the overall range based on my experience trading it and other coins. (I don't know of a useful and accurate objective metric of liquidity that is easy to obtain but trading volume is an often-quoted approximation and while it is lower than some other coins it isn't terrible; 3x DOGE or XMR today for example.)

But that may be based on the high short-term supply rate as you suggested. As the rate of new supply begins to approach its longer-term equilibrium with a huge portion of the supply locked in SP, the liquidity may further erode.

Quote
  • No one is investing in creating communities (plural) because there is no monetary incentive to plant a homestead on Steem. Rather everyone is extracting from the groupthink. The exodus out of SP may have already started as I've seen some of the star ladies taking money out. Everybody is gaming the system, there is minimal investment into it. @smooth even you gamed it by mining it (no offense intended and thanks for sharing the love a bit)

I think a lot of that is the organization of the web site. There is nothng at all like a subreddit, personal or group home page, group feature with memberships, or other community features of any kind. The categories feature is underdeveloped and doesn't really work. In fact the whole web site seems like a afterthought that is poorly developed (though I wouldn't take anything away from their building a reasonably decent web wallet and blockchain explorer for the content; that was a significant effort).

Quote
  • The viral growth is not working because perhaps only 15% of the people who join earn anything worth mentioning and perhaps only 1% earn anything like an income. So I assume this isn't spreading beyond the first degree of relation from the exuberant cryptonerd that begs their friends to try it.

I find the growth on the slow side but I don't really agree with the reasons you put forward. Most people are never going to earn anything like an income from a social media site, so this is somewhat of a straw man. People will join because it is fun period, or because it is fun to earn even a little (or both). But if you are saying that the viral growth was supposed to be from significant earnings  (like an income) and that part isn't working then I agree.

Although I would say that even today viral growth appears to be working among successful bloggers. They are getting significant earnings and recruiting their colleagues, who in many cases are doing the same (so literally viral growth). The bloggers may bring the readers. Perhaps with more readers that will bring more bloggers (even without direct recruitment). So this could work. I'm not sure.

Quote

So Medium has found that 1/1000 of the user base earns anything significant. I find that number very reasonable and I doubt that is going to change. If something needs to change it may be the growth model beyond that 1/1000, to the extent that it is too tied to earnings. I don't see any of the upcoming competing sites doing anything any better though.

I also agree with the later comments about voter apathy.

Quote
@smooth even you gamed it by mining it (no offense intended and thanks for sharing the love a bit)

None taken and I agree I absolutely gamed the mining of it. It was set up to almost require that someone do that. If it wasn't me and the few others who did, it would be someone else.
1155  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Steem pyramid scheme revealed on: August 13, 2016, 12:09:18 AM

I mean, let's say I know you are going to vote anonymint with 80% chance, then my risk is too low. He'll get my upvote quickly to front-run "smooth the whale". Now repeat this with every other whale and their favorite authors, or even comment authors, and you are suddenly milking the curation through automation via a robotic circle-jerk. Humans are pretty "low entropy" in their behavior and it's not gonna get better anytime soon.

Having said that, we are far from being in a totally broken system.


This is why I vote people like heiditravels 30mins to an hr after she blogs, there's never a shortage of whales on those. It's amazing how many people do the same.

I agree with iamnotback that it's hard to form a community when whale votes are the only ones that really count. Every other vote is almost negligible

Yes but it's just starting to get traction. One month ago he got 0 vests. Now he has 10m vests. In 6 months he might be at 100mn vests. It's a process of whale-building as coins are also given to the bottom.

Exactly and as she gains traction voting 30+ minutes won't work. You will have to vote earlier to get anything at all, curation rewards end up reduced, and she is rewarded a bit more (up to 33%) for her consistency and reputation. There is no real value in "curating" someone who has already established herself as providing consistently good posts.

Quote
That's exactly the intent. It's individually milking, yes, but the auction means these rewards are transferred to the author. Once there is less curation decision to be made (because the answer is 70-90% predetermined) then there is little curation reward.

Dan's posts pay about 5% of the normal curation reward. Anonymint's posts pay more, but still less than the full reward that votes on a complete unknown would get. Seems about right to me.

I'm seeing Dan having second thoughts on curation rewards though...

Sure, there are other issues with it, but this isn't one of them.
1156  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Steem pyramid scheme revealed on: August 12, 2016, 10:28:41 PM
I don't think people can invest in Steemit as a community, because they can't develop their own community. Getting a lot of followers doesn't really mean you will earn a lot. If the whales don't vote you, you don't earn much. The ones that are voting me very heavily in the first 30 minutes (up 80 - 100 votes) is because they expect a whale to upvote my posts. I will stop blog posting for a while, because I don't want to feel I am abusing the BROKEN system.

I don't see anything broken there. That is the whole intent of the 30 minute reverse auction. Voters have to compete by voting earlier and earlier, and by doing so the rewards are shifted to the author. Thus authors who are gaining votes based on track record and reputation are rewarded for it.

If someone votes early expecting there to be later votes, and then there aren't (assume because later more careful voters look at the post and decide it is crap), that vote is wasted. To the extent there is a luck component based on what happens to be seen and what isn't, that will cancel out. Smarter voters will do better. (The luck component -- and didadvantage to people in certain time zones -- will be reduced when the first voting period is put back to 24 hours from 12 hours; that was a bad change IMO.)

At the human voter level this is pretty much it. But once you map whale behavior statistics in relation to authors getting upvotes and have values and correlations like 70-80-90%, then you can automate the upvoting process and start milking the cow.

That's exactly the intent. It's individually milking, yes, but the auction means these rewards are transferred to the author. Once there is less curation decision to be made (because the answer is 70-90% predetermined) then there is little curation reward.

Dan's posts pay about 5% of the normal curation reward. Anonymint's posts pay more, but still less than the full reward that votes on a complete unknown would get. Seems about right to me.
1157  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Steem pyramid scheme revealed on: August 12, 2016, 10:12:40 PM
I don't think people can invest in Steemit as a community, because they can't develop their own community. Getting a lot of followers doesn't really mean you will earn a lot. If the whales don't vote you, you don't earn much. The ones that are voting me very heavily in the first 30 minutes (up 80 - 100 votes) is because they expect a whale to upvote my posts. I will stop blog posting for a while, because I don't want to feel I am abusing the BROKEN system.

I don't see anything broken there. That is the whole intent of the 30 minute reverse auction. Voters have to compete by voting earlier and earlier, and by doing so the rewards are shifted to the author. Thus authors who are gaining votes based on track record and reputation are rewarded for it.

Yeah that is my point, it is benefiting me too much, because that huge burst of votes is getting me always into the attention zone where my blogs can at least make it to $300 with one minor whale or a few dolphins. And then reasonably good chance a more significant whale will vote because I am writing about important tech stuff they can appreciate.

That is exactly the intent. You are getting those votes because of consistently good content. I see nothing wrong with that at all. Curation rewards start to disappear in this case because of the earlier and earlier voting. The one actually producing the consistently good content (you) is the one rewarded.

If the content starts to suck, you will lose your audience and stop getting votes, with the same incentives working in reverse. The later votes will disappear and then the earlier votes (which exist because of the later votes) will unwind too.

This, frankly, is exactly what people want in a content source. You can try creating a site where content is completely blind without any labeling of authorship or brand and instead every post has to be individually evaluated in a vacuum, but I'm virtually certain it will fail (except perhaps due to its novelty value as a sort of game).

@smooth, I'll reply after I sleep. Zzzzz.

Huh  Huh I saw a long reply from @smooth, then it disappeared. He must have deleted it.

The formatting sucked, so I'm going to fix that and repost it.
1158  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Steem pyramid scheme revealed on: August 12, 2016, 09:40:25 PM
I don't think people can invest in Steemit as a community, because they can't develop their own community. Getting a lot of followers doesn't really mean you will earn a lot. If the whales don't vote you, you don't earn much. The ones that are voting me very heavily in the first 30 minutes (up 80 - 100 votes) is because they expect a whale to upvote my posts. I will stop blog posting for a while, because I don't want to feel I am abusing the BROKEN system.

I don't see anything broken there. That is the whole intent of the 30 minute reverse auction. Voters have to compete by voting earlier and earlier, and by doing so the rewards are shifted to the author. Thus authors who are gaining votes based on track record and reputation are rewarded for it.

If someone votes early expecting there to be later votes, and then there aren't (assume because later more careful voters look at the post and decide it is crap), that vote is wasted. To the extent there is a luck component based on what happens to be seen and what isn't, that will cancel out. Smarter voters will do better. (The luck component -- and didadvantage to people in certain time zones -- will be reduced when the first voting period is put back to 24 hours from 12 hours; that was a bad change IMO.)
1159  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Service Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Steemit.com: Blogging is the new Mining on: August 11, 2016, 12:24:46 PM
Is this digging?


transactions from network on block 3988074
3372936ms th_a       witness.cpp:430               on_applied_block     ] hash r
ate: 97094 hps  target: 30 queue: 104 estimated time to produce: 184 minutes
3372951ms th_a       application.cpp:439           handle_block         ] Got 2
transactions from network on block 3988075
3375826ms th_a       witness.cpp:430               on_applied_block     ] hash r
ate: 97062 hps  target: 30 queue: 104 estimated time to produce: 184 minutes
3375826ms th_a       application.cpp:439           handle_block         ] Got 1
transactions from network on block 3988076
3378842ms th_a       witness.cpp:430               on_applied_block     ] hash r
ate: 96915 hps  target: 30 queue: 104 estimated time to produce: 184 minutes
3378842ms th_a       application.cpp:439           handle_block         ] Got 2
transactions from network on block 3988077
3382295ms th_a       witness.cpp:430               on_applied_block     ] hash r
ate: 96824 hps  target: 30 queue: 104 estimated time to produce: 184 minutes

Yes, you are mining. There can be some configuration issues where you don't get blocks but according to that output you should find a block within about 3 hours so if you don't you will know soon enough that something is wrong.

1160  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Steem pyramid scheme revealed on: August 11, 2016, 08:52:44 AM
Powered down SP goes to STEEM.

Then Steem has a bug. It lost my power down requests from last week. I did not receive any STEEM on this recent power down.

Where would I report such a problem?

support at steemit.com maybe? I'm not really sure.

Quote
Well someone over there mislead me by stating that when SBD are created, the VESTS are created to back it. Obviously that is incorrect, because you are confirming that only liquid STEEM are created to convert (retire) SBD.

Any thoughts on why people are so fucking confused in their explanations or WTF they are referring to?

See the next two posts in this thread after yours. This blockchain is an order of magnitude more complicated than most (all?) others and the mechanisms are poorly explained in general.
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