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321  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin vs Internet adoption. Bill Gates was trolled about Internet in 1995 on: January 04, 2024, 11:55:02 PM
We had this before the internet:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system
322  Other / Meta / Re: [Discussion] Forum tipping service on: January 04, 2024, 11:33:16 PM
I'm a little confused, didn't you say like 2 weeks ago your done here?
Now your back with a custodial service?
Your a member I rub shoulders with a lot and your recent activity is very out of character.
Let's just say his precious m!xer income ($1200/month, while the minimum wage in Greece is €660/month) was lost permanently, so he has to find another source of income. Wink

I'm curious to find out what Greek lawyers have to say about a centralized money transmitting service with no licence and no regulation... Roll Eyes

Don't worry, he's very young and he'll learn many lessons the hard way. Cool

but if you are hacked the hacker can pretend to be everyone and raid your custody by spamming you with everyones code they accessed, if you have it all mingled together on your server
If a hacker hacks the server, they can take the money. Whether we use digital signatures or private codes in plain text, the money are sitting on the server and can be claimed if the machine is compromised.

then a hacker cant just spam your mailbox with everyones code, nor get everyones private key from your side
A hacker isn't supposed to steal everyone's codes. They are supposed to compromise the server, and if the server (or the home computer in your analogy) is compromised, digital signatures provide no extra security. The private code is only used to authenticate your account; it is the same as choosing a strong password. If you're concerned about impersonation (e.g., hacker steals your private code and pretends to be you), I can promise to only keep the hash of the codes (which can be verified on the front-end).

This is the same as telling me that a centralized exchange which asks for a public key is more secure than one that asks for a password. Both are central point of failures which can be compromised regardless.

first of all..
CEX at the most basic level do a thing called hot/cold wallet. where they dont keep full stash on the public access server that do order/payment/withdrawal requests.
second of all they FAIL when they get hacked and lose their hotwallet stash because they should keep even the hot wallet stash separate from the public access server

again if you have 2 servers.. one is the public access that takes the user requests and a second one that remotely sniffs the public server to read such requests and perform them separate. you add an extra layer of security.

like i said, the cheap affordable low maintenance approach would be to use the forums PM inbox to take requests and then your home PC does the payments. where you keep your funds separate. and keep your home pc unidentifiable from the forum/extension, thus avoid hacker finding your home pc

if you however want to hotwallet any/all funds on the same server that takes the user requests(public access) then you are not even doing basic security of a CEX..  it shows you are not ready to manage funds
because you prefer not to care about security and are expecting to one day shout "i been hacked"

..
so like i said if users sigup to you a with public address (much like sigcampaign applicants use bitcoin addresses to sign up)
YOU no longer need to create, manage, store, give out private keys/codes.... because doing so is a security risk

and instead you can verify a user is making a genuine request by them sending you a signed message that proves the request is unique, independent and genuine. which stops hackers from just spamming everyones "code" to raid you dry.. and stops hackers getting everyones codes because there is no central store to get codes

much like you proved you didnt sell your account by signing your 'black' vanity address..
without anyone needing to manage your private key centrally
To me it seems highly ironic that he has criticized heavily CEX in the past (Angelo loves flip-flopping), even though they're regulated services (at least Binance is, that's why they got a hefty 4 billion $ fine) and now he's back to promote a centralized service with zero regulation and most people here don't even know his real name, his address, his occupation etc. CZ is not anonymous, everyone knows who he is.

Oh well, maybe the Greek authorities will have to interrogate Mr. Angelo after all... Cool
323  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Mempool Observer Topic on: January 04, 2024, 11:15:38 PM
although there are still incoming transactions seems like nobody is that eager to pay over 100sat/vb for a tx.
I wanted to discuss a thing that I noticed for a long time but didn't ask.
Sometimes I notice that some people replace their transactions with fees like 1000 sat/vB even though the recommended fee was around 100 sat/vB. Their previous fee was already enough to include their transaction on a block but it was waiting to be included in a block. But the person keep bumping it from 500 to 600 sat/vB and then 600 to 1000 sat/vB. Should I call them dumb people?
For example, look at the image below  Cheesy

No, they're not dumb, they're most likely bad actors trying to raise fees permanently. Wink
324  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Eligius pool is back under the new name Ocean on: January 04, 2024, 11:05:18 PM
Miners in OCEAN probably make more than a miner in any other pool by hashrate given the 0% fee and the disadvantages of FPPS share models other than TIDES which ocean utilizes.
...
Except they threw away more than 1BTC in fees - so they are clearly NOT making more than other pools ...
Reminds me of "go woke, go broke".

Won't last for too long in Capitalism...
325  Other / Meta / Re: Decentralize Bitcointalk on: January 04, 2024, 11:04:12 PM
Generally, decentralized applications are lighter in weight
Do you honestly believe that BTC is lighter compared to ECB SEPA payments (Target2 ledger)?

BTC has to broadcast the transaction to every node, while ECB uses a single centralized computer to process the transaction.

We don't use BTC because it's lighter or cheaper. Revolut offers SEPA instant payments for €0, while BTC is way more expensive and slower: https://mempool.space/
326  Other / Meta / Re: Decentralize Bitcointalk on: January 03, 2024, 10:51:04 PM
I reckon we can have a decent decentralized forum protocol if FTTH (100 Mbps upload) becomes the baseline.

With ADSL (1 Mbps upload) it's not really possible... ADSL is fine for BTC, that's why Satoshi released it in 2009 (when ADSL was already becoming the norm).

I believe that a decentralized forum wouldn't necessarily be determined by bandwidth or internet speed. A good solution should be more lightweight, if anything.
I'm afraid you don't understand the fact that a forum has WAY MORE traffic compared to a decentralized payment system exchanging a few numbers here and there.

So no, it's not going to be more lightweight, quite the contrary!
327  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: BRC-20 needs to be removed on: January 03, 2024, 12:18:40 PM
This thread might be of interest to some here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36119042
The main characteristic of a successful malicious attack on bitcoin is to get the bitcoin users to do it not yourself. Remember the nonsense called "stress test" years ago? It wasn't just one silly company spamming the network. They got bitcoiners to spam too by funding loads of addresses with small amounts then publishing their private keys. The result was nodes that were flooded by double spends and the mempool that was flooded with spam transactions that didn't come from a single attacker.
In that scenario CoinWallet was the origin of the attack but wasn't the lone attacker.

That is the main principle that the Ordinals Attack is using too. It is not one entity that performs the attack but they have fooled loads of people to participate in it by creating the parallel scam market and the tools to perform the attack.
In this scenario Casey Rodarmor, Unisat, etc. is the origin of the attack but aren't the lone attackers.

The principle is commonly used in color revolutions, which I dare say is what's been happening to Bitcoin. One of the signs is seeing old bitcoiners defending this exploit of the protocol in the name of Bitcoin principles such as censorship resistance!
Very interesting remark... Cool

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_revolution

"The aim of the colour revolutions was to establish Western-style liberal democracy in those countries"
328  Other / Meta / Re: [Discussion] Forum tipping service on: January 03, 2024, 11:48:25 AM
What do you mean it's open-source?
I mean this, open source MIT license:
https://github.com/getAlby/lightning-browser-extension

I don't think it's hard to explain (to most people) what that means  Roll Eyes
Go ahead and make your own non-custodial alternative, can't wait to see it.
You don't have to be passive aggressive.

Would you trust Binance more if they made their platform open-source on Github? Roll Eyes

Most likely not, because it's a custodial service. That's what I meant for Alby. If you trust them for your funds, use them.
329  Other / Meta / Re: Mixers to be banned on: January 03, 2024, 12:16:13 AM
Is there any visible (not encrypted or external link) pedo pr0n jpeg in the BTC blockchain?

If so, all BTC nodes are illegal by definition.

Unfortunately, there are already much worse things on the Bitcoin blockchain:
Child abuse imagery found within bitcoin's blockchain (The Guardian)

I don't even want to imagine what a lot of Ordinals that have been moving/registered have...
So I guess it's illegal to have a BTC full node... I wonder why the authorities have done nothing about it.
330  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Mempool Observer Topic on: January 02, 2024, 11:20:59 PM
Juts in this topic present there is mikeywith and you might look at what I said, when regarding miners, I used "our"  Grin
Of course , I'm hobby sized and even before I was running in the very low PH area!

I can't say I don't enjoy the extra reward  Cheesy, that would be straight-out lying  Cheesy, although I would prefer steady medium fees than these crazy spikes of 300-500 sats Vbyte, i'd rather see fees stay steady at 10-20 sats/Vbyte, this would boost the mining rewards as well as make the network usable, I mean even 30-40 sats being the baseline is certainly better than 500 sats/Vbyte yesterday, 20 sats/ Vbyte today and then 100 sats/ Vbyte sats tomorrow, too high a fee is bad, and when it's coupled with "unpredicted" fee it gets worse.
This whole BTC fees story reminds me of olive oil prices in 2023-2024...

Producers love it, consumers hate it. Win-lose situation.
331  Other / Meta / Re: [Discussion] Forum tipping service on: January 02, 2024, 10:34:57 PM
I've started developing an old project that I had left behind, bitcointalk lightning tips. If you're interested in this idea, I kindly ask you to post your opinion below.
I think adding Tipping service in bitcointalk forum would be very good, but I am no sure all members are ready for LN yet.
A while ago one of our local board members posted interesting open source LN project called getalby.com, maybe you should check it out.
This is already made browser extension and project is active with updates and development.
I think getlaby would work perfectly integrated with bitcointalk forum.
Alby is custodial, IIRC. What do you mean it's open-source?
332  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: (Ordinals) BRC-20 needs to be removed on: January 02, 2024, 09:04:14 PM
With that said, Ordinals is an attack because it is abusing Bitcoin which is a payment network not a cloud storage.

2014 called and has questions about this statement.  Where were all your complaints then?  Are wedding vows in the blockchain an "attack", too?  

When I first read about people doing that, my reaction was "huh, that's kinda cool, I guess it's not just for money, it can do other stuff as well".  But now, almost a decade later, people seem to have suddenly decided against that outlook.  I'd argue, it's a bit late to be calling for it to stop now.  That ship has long since sailed.


Additionally this attack only became possible by finding and using an exploit in the protocol that was added through a past soft-fork.

Why do people keep saying this?  Embedding pictures and assorted crap was possible long before that.  Various crappy forkcoins which didn't implement that change are also full of images and junk.  There are numerous ways to embed arbitrary data into the chain.  And that's been the case since you first registered your account here.  You're at risk of beginning to sound like fruitloopfranky1 if you keep spreading misinformation like that.  Don't go off the deep-end like him, please.  

You could argue the softfork made it more cost-effective to fill the chain with crap, but it's a complete myth to say the softfork made it possible.

And the primary idea behind that fork is to improve throughput.  What's your alternative?  Would you rather developers didn't work on scaling Bitcoin at all anymore?  'Cause I hear a lot of bitching about this, but not much in the way of an alternative path to explore.  Tell you what, when you create a functional time machine, or crystal ball, and you can accurately predict in advance when someone is going to use new functionality in a way that was never intended, maybe then your critiques can serve an actual purpose.   Roll Eyes
I'm curious to read your opinion about this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5476162.msg63430508#msg63430508
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5476162.msg63430973#msg63430973

Freedom is nice and all, until it puts BTC into existential danger...
333  Other / Meta / Re: Mixers to be banned on: January 02, 2024, 08:38:25 PM
Quote
How come nobody has uploaded pedo pr0n in the BTC blockchain as an NFT?
1. It was harder, and more expensive in the past. Now, there is a ready-to-use tool, called Ordinals client, which will make that easier, than it was before.

2. It was done in the past. There were at least links, but in some cases, there were some encrypted images.

3. Rule 34, and Rule 35 applies here as well:

Quote
Rule 34. There is pr0n of it, no exception.
Rule 35. If no pr0n is found at the moment, it will be made.

And of course, a fully-decentralized cloud storage, will also have it. But with sufficient moderation, and a good blacklist, and whitelist, it is something we can deal with. Take mailing list for example: it is moderated, so such things are not posted there, even if someone could send it.
Is there any visible (not encrypted or external link) pedo pr0n jpeg in the BTC blockchain?

If so, all BTC nodes are illegal by definition.

That's why I believe NFTs shouldn't exist in the first place (unless there's moderation, which could easily turn into censorship).

ps: Cost is not an issue if you're determined to destroy BTC.
334  Other / Meta / Re: Mixers to be banned on: January 02, 2024, 06:28:03 PM
Guys, in decentralization if you mean that no post will get removed and no topic or subject will get banned, then keep in mind that many people might also post some illegal and unwanted things. That will bring more problems.
How come nobody has uploaded pedo pr0n in the BTC blockchain as an NFT?

BTC has way too many enemies who would love to see it destroyed...
335  Other / Meta / Re: Mixers to be banned on: January 02, 2024, 01:40:43 PM
Arguing for the sake of arguing much?  Roll Eyes

You didn't answer my questions, you just keep making new questions demanding answers...

What answer do you want me to answer?
How am I going to talk about a technology that doesn't exist today, or rather that isn't viable for a forum of this size, mainly because I don't have the resources to invent something like that?

What I can say is that creating a decentralized forum today is impossible and completely unfeasible.

The example I gave was torrent, not BitTorrent. BitTorrent is a torrent client, which is clearly not decentralized.
Do you know how torrent works? So imagine the same for the website. How can an ordinary person access a website, without having to install specific software, download the entire database that can be larger than a 4K Blu-ray movie, and then browse?

But wait, it only takes 1 byte to depend on one person, so it won't be decentralized.

Is Bitcoin decentralized? Yes, yours because anyone can set up a node and run it. But, Bitcoin is linear and not dynamic. It is mathematical work, always the same, that always produces the same type of data. A forum is highly dynamic, where all users produce different content, where features change over time, and many other things happen in a matter of seconds.

It cannot be compared when the type of data transmitted is always the same, with other services that are very varied in terms of data. The greater the data variation, the more complex and longer the processing process.

I'm not saying that in the future there won't be something really functional that makes this type of site decentralized. But at the moment it doesn't exist. Therefore, I cannot demand the forum to become decentralized.
Again: arguing for the sake of arguing (semantics). Had a bad day or what?

The protocol (never said anything about clients) is officially called BitTorrent, just like Bitcoin is called Bitcoin. I've been using torrents for 20 years, I don't need lecturing.

You also dismissed this post for some strange reason:

I reckon we can have a decent decentralized forum protocol if FTTH (100 Mbps upload) becomes the baseline.

With ADSL (1 Mbps upload) it's not really possible... ADSL is fine for BTC, that's why Satoshi released it in 2009 (when ADSL was already becoming the norm).
I never said a decentralized forum protocol is feasible right now, don't put words in my mouth.

I said we need higher upload to create more elaborate decentralized apps (whether it's a forum or Artificial Intelligence to rival the centralized ChatGPT).

Back in 2003 many people didn't even have ADSL, they were stuck in dial-up (even in the US). Therefore it was not a good time to release Bitcoin (even if it was ready).

Nobody "demands" anything, not even Theymos (but he clearly wants a decentralized forum WHEN it becomes feasible!).

Have some patience and don't be such a pessimist. Smiley

It's just that not even torrents - perhaps the most decentralized products that exist on the internet - are really decentralized.  Roll Eyes
Torrents with Magnet links are as decentralized as it gets: one link, that can be shared on different websites and any other way you want, contains all the information you need to connect to multiple different trackers. The trackers will connect you to other people sharing and downloading the files you want. I don't think there's a limit to the number of trackers, seeders and leechers, so it's pretty decentralized.
True.

You don't even need a tracker with DHT/PEX. Peers will be found automatically.

The problems become evident when older, less popular torrents no longer have seeders. I've seen torrents with many incomplete leechers and no full seeders. If that happens to your decentralized forum, it basically ends.
That's the big failure of BitTorrent IMHO: it doesn't have applied game theory.

Seeding is basically charity work (same for BTC nodes), unlike BTC mining which rewards you handsomely.

It's just that not even torrents - perhaps the most decentralized products that exist on the internet - are really decentralized.  Roll Eyes
Torrents with Magnet links are as decentralized as it gets: one link, that can be shared on different websites and any other way you want, contains all the information you need to connect to multiple different trackers. The trackers will connect you to other trackers, and to other people sharing and downloading the files you want. I don't think there's a limit to the number of trackers, seeders and leechers, so it's pretty decentralized.
The problems become evident when older, less popular torrents no longer have seeders. I've seen torrents with many incomplete leechers and no full seeders. If that happens to your decentralized forum, it basically ends.

They are also banned by many home ISPs so even though this is already an impractical solution to host a forum or perhaps even a BBS (if you want to go retro), there are also legal implications to this as well.
You can use VPN. China doesn't have the most free internet access and yet, people use VPNs to avoid restrictions.

Internet is decentralized, since TCP/IP is a permissionless protocol (just like Bitcoin).
336  Other / Meta / Re: Mixers to be banned on: January 02, 2024, 11:57:39 AM
Bitcoin's source code is also stored on GitHub. Does that mean it's centralized?

But, you have no idea what a site like this forum is, with such "decentralization", do you?

In fact, for you, what is decentralized?
It's just that not even torrents - perhaps the most decentralized products that exist on the internet - are really decentralized.  Roll Eyes
Arguing for the sake of arguing much?  Roll Eyes

You didn't answer my questions, you just keep making new questions demanding answers...

If nothing is truly decentralized (not even BitTorrent), then it all seems an exercise in futility.

ps: Did you personally know what it would take to create something like Bitcoin back in 2003?

There were many naysayers back then, I can assure you...
337  Other / Meta / Re: Mixers to be banned on: January 02, 2024, 11:22:18 AM
I reckon we can have a decent decentralized forum protocol if FTTH (100 Mbps upload) becomes the baseline.

With ADSL (1 Mbps upload) it's not really possible...
Any decentralized solution that needs more than 1 Mbps continuously sounds terrible! And the main problem I have with anything decentralized is that it won't work in a browser, you'll need to install software and download everything. Those drawbacks are probably the reason why it isn't used on a large scale. I mind downloading 100+ GB on my desktop, but for mobile users, decentralization is almost impossible.
And even if you get that working: how are you going to download it to get started? Centralized on Github?
Most of the things that claim to be decentralized, aren't decentralized.
Bitcoin's source code is also stored on GitHub. Does that mean it's centralized?

And what about people spending BTC on their mobile wallet? Do they have to store the entire blockchain to claim it's a decentralized currency?

I'm pretty sure 20 years ago BTC would seem like a crazy idea... I know, because I first read about the idea of a decentralized, PKI-secured currency back in 2003 (not BTC, since it didn't exist), but nobody could pull it off until Satoshi solved the Byzantine Generals problem.

How can you be so sure that we won't have yet another breakthrough in the future?
338  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Eligius pool is back under the new name Ocean on: January 02, 2024, 02:03:18 AM
Censoring cannot last for too long, it's not the first time it happens in the BTC network:

https://ir.mara.com/news-events/press-releases/detail/1239/marathon-digital-holdings-becomes-the-first-north-american

vs

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/bitcoin-mining-company-marathon-will-stop-censoring-transactions-start-signaling-for
339  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Eligius pool is back under the new name Ocean on: January 02, 2024, 01:58:06 AM
How is it possible to have ZERO "legit" transactions in that block? Shocked

The mempool is far from empty... do they censor literally EVERY transaction and just get the coinbase transaction (6.25 BTC)?

And now Ocean is helping the spam by mining empty blocks, this is just gold! But..
Neah, it's not censorship, it's too much luck  Cheesy
The block as mined at 00:32 and the previous at 00:31 probably again the same thing, found the block the second they started, didn't wait for the the tx template and broadcasted the empty block to make sure they get at least the block reward. Others do it too but for Ocean with their 1/1000 chance of finding a block this really blows.

Alani123, how are those profits coming?


LE, yeah, as I thought, Luke is against going nuts on x!
He says his empty block is actually a good thing since it adds security to the blockchain! LMAO!
https://twitter.com/LukeDashjr/status/1741967158282686683
340  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Eligius pool is back under the new name Ocean on: January 02, 2024, 01:14:32 AM
How is it possible to have ZERO "legit" transactions in that block? Shocked

The mempool is far from empty... do they censor literally EVERY transaction and just get the coinbase transaction (6.25 BTC)?
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