Regarding escrowing a Signature Campaign

I was asked by KomodoPlatform to provide a bitcoin address to hold the coins for the signature campaign of KomodoPlatform in escrow.

I will provide a bitcoin address where I hold 2 of three keys, the other key is held by the service trustedcoin.com, which allows more safety for the funds.

I will not pay out the signature campaign rewards. I will only hold bitcoins in escrow to the participiants directly. What I hold is only a safety measure in case the devs vanish. Please note that the 5 BTC won't back up the total amount that has to be paid. So this campaign is only partly secured.

This is the address I will hold the safety coins at:

Message signed with an old address of mine, that I posted may 2013 on bitcointalk. See my Servicethread: [ANN] SebastianJu - Free Legendary Escrow Service - Escrowed over 8150 BTC.

Iam in the process of sending wasserman99 the file with the users of ico2 that wanted a refund.

Besides that I sent the signature payment to Lutpin.


I do not think that you understand how trading works. For every Dollar won by someone there is someone who lost that dollar. So it is not possible for everyone to dump the coins and get the money back.

Hey Lutpin and all... the signature coins are on the way. Let me know if I misread the amount needed.

Hope all is well so far now.

In case someone wants to tip me see my tipping address in my profile.

Yes, I will pay Lutpin directly. I know him since a longer time and confirmed he is the real one I know. So when I pay him I know the funds will reach his target.

wasserman99, can you post the release address directly so that I can release all the remaining funds (except the funds of users I know the opair user connection but not a refund address)?

Escrow here...

The list with the refund requests is complete. There was only one user who decided to get a refund after the wallet was released. And that user already contacted me upfront that it could be the case that he might want a refund. He wanted to wait for the wallet.

Well, this has to come to an end, I already waited longer now to see if more refund requests come in but they didn't. On the other hand people changed their minds to wait for the opair even though they asked for a refund before.

So this can't be held open independently without hurting the other investors that want to trust into the coin. Which seem to be not a few.

So the refund period effectively ends now with the time of this post. I have the details of the investors that do not want opair. So that I can give them to wasserman99.

I will send wasserman99 the list of users that wanted a refund. Then refund the remaining users that wanted a refund, then pay the signature campaign and wasserman99 asked for the remaining coins to be sent to an address. Have to search for it again. Or you might post it here again publicly wasserman99.

Surely this did not go the way it was invented but with all the ruckus I did my best to find out how to handle this so the outcome would be the best for investors on both sides.


Nope, not after asking for a refund. What do you try to do?

Escrow here...

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irfan_pak10



You invested in ico phase one which was not yet escrowed. "The first one goes from July 26th to August 2nd and the second one from August 3rd to August 26th." See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1558596.msg15645178#msg15645178 for more info.

So your investment can't be refunded by me.

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wasserman99



Please make sure that you do not delete the users but only investments they did in ico phase 2 since there are users that want a refund but they are invested in both phases. I can only refund phase one investments though.

How is the status of the mailing to investors? You wrote me you were up to mailing the biggest investors. I hope you went through mailing to all investors of phase 2.

Escrow here again. I received some pm to get points about this ICO to my attention that I should take care of.

Please correct me by pm on any point where Iam wrong.

So I will have to add some points. Lutpin, signature campaign manager, wanted to explain the situation on weekend to me but so far it looks like the signature campaign was not paid yet and it's unclear why it was not happening with the funds from ico 1. So when releasing the coins from investors that chose not to withdraw then I would pay the signature campaign first. They were promised payment in bitcoin I was told, right?

It would not be a problem because wasserman99 wanted to do this anyway. It makes no sense to wait 2 weeks after I released the coins to wasserman99 when these are costs that have to be paid in any case. Waiting can have no advantage.

Are there other unpaid costs as of now?

Next point is that in the plan the points distribution and release should be in the opposite order. I would tell wasserman99 all users that do want a refund. He would send the coins to all remaining users of ico 2 together with those to ico 1 investors. Then I would release the bitcoins to wasserman99. This would be a small peace of mind for investors of ico 2 that fear not getting coins when I release the coins upfront.
Though I see wasserman99 already reacted and added that point into the list at point 7, now 8.

Regarding the wallet. Everyone should make their decision. I don't want to take that decision into my own hands.

Next thing, Wasserman99, you NEED to email the investors in phase 2 so they can decide. Since it looks like you have their email address. They need to be aware of the situation. The 2 week period is for every investor to realize. Even though I do not think that an investor would not care about his investment over all these weeks. But if this way of informing exists then it should be used.

Well, next point. I will not hold the coins of phase 2 beyond the 2 weeks timeframe. Reason is, when I would do so then it would potentially risk the development of the coin, regardless of what I think about the need of that money. The investors in phase 2 decided to invest, the milestones where set up in order to show something and then decide if a refund is needed. Now the situation is so that a refund is there and possible. Not only for 2 weeks, even longer it was open. Every investor of phase 2 has to care at least so much about his investment that he checks back in this timeframe. So the milestones are not needed anymore. The refund possibility is already there and holding funds even after that is not needed when the refund period is close anyway then.

The situation lies on the table pretty clearly. So deciding can't be drawn indefinitely. If in doubt never invest. I know it sounds like siding but it's meant as a general lesson I learned. NEVER EVER invest if there is a doubt. If you have the chance of 100% profit in a year then you have to invest 100% of your own stash. Which means initially you lose 100% of your wn ofunds. The question then is not only if you receive the 100% profit but if you get back your 100% investment also. So that you could have the 200% at the end of the year. I learned the hard way.

To say something into opposite direction, a couple of persons asking for refund changed their decision after this 2 week plan came on the table.

Regarding verifying the devs. It looks clear that they won't do it. There were enough suggestions already. So everyone need to think about it what he has to think. The situation is so that ICO 2 users can get a refund.

So the plan for me has to look like this:

1) Define the 9% PoW before Friday. // Done
2) On Friday communicating the decision to SJ. // Guess it's done, since it shouldn't have a huge impact I did not check it out too much.
3) Release the qt wallet before September 19th. // Better before. Would be a good thing for wasserman99's when he can show at least something
4) On September 19th the refund period will ends and no more refunds will be accepted.
5) Escrow Pays sig campaign.
6) On September 19-20th SJ will send us the info about the refunds to update our system.
7) Start the distribution
7 days after we start the distribution the funds will be released.
9) Launch the beta during October.

It looks like the waiting period went by without someone proving a problem with the wallet, coin or the dev. So I will release the coins to the OP now.

Ok, it seems wasserman99 agreed and I have read the following posts on here. The only more details about what I wrote might be that in these 2 weeks the wallet should be released. Without coins probably not of much use but still it might be possible for wasserman99 to show that there is something that exists in some way. So releasing the wallet only can help wasserman99 so less investors would like to get their coins back.

Besides that I think the post where wasserman99 agreed to my plan can serve as the starting point of the 2 weeks period in order to not delay things much more now.

I would like to ask wasserman99 to add a notice to the head of the first post in this thread in order to inform investors of phase 2 that they can decide on where their coins should flow to.

Please not that the escrow address is using a safety service that asks for 50k satoshies as an additional fee for every transaction. It's not a tip. Just for information.

Hello everyone, I received alot of pm's regarding the current case. Suggestions and around 10 or so refund requests. No forwarding request yet.

Well, the situation is at a stop now. Wasserman99 seems to not wanting to deliver something worthy of the coins he already holds. Which is alot of coins.

In any case we need a solution. How about making a timeframe of two weeks from the day we have an agreement settled. This should be sufficient time for investors to check for the status of the coin and make a decision.

The problem is that if wasserman99 would release the coins now to ico 1 investors then I either would have to refund all ico 2 users or forward all coins of users that do want a refund. The latter is no real choice. The reason is that they could hedge against the price of the coin otherwise. Ask for a refund with the coin price drops or ask for the coins when they rise in value.

If wasserman99 sends coins before that timeframe to ico 1 then a refund to ico 2 has to happen to not make it possible to force a forwarding.
If coins are sent to ico 1 and 2 then still ico 2 bitcoins has to be refunded for the same reason.

What happens with the coins of investors that do not make a choice? Well, forwarding might be the way to go if investors do not care about their investment in all this time. Refunding might be another but in any case, no choice can be offered then anymore. Since investors did invest and have a choice to choose to divest then the Libra would be in favor to forward the remaining coins. Because they invested before.

I will not give a suggestion on what investors should do. Everything investors of phase 2 can do is check everything that was said.

Please inform me if there is a weakness in my suggestion.

Guys, I see alot of posts of accounts that want me to release the coins to wasserman99. Unfortunately the only persons I can trust to be real persons are investors that showed some sort of proof of their investment and wasserman99 as the dev. It seems there are other threads about OPAIR where the vibrations are completely the opposite and they can't post here. In any case this is nothing I could base a decision on and override other investors wishes based on accounts that are unverified investors.

So if you invested then please contact me with your wish to FORWARD the coins to wasserman99. Personally I would like to get an explaination why the coins from ICO phase 1 are only enough to pay for having a wallet in hands and running a sig campaign. There are much smaller ICO's that manage to do that without receiving any investment.

So far wasserman99 could not explain the usage of that kind of a lot of money so if I had contact with an experienced altcoin user on this forum before, who invested into this ICO now and I trust him then let me know and please let me know why these numbers match up.

Regarding end of ICO and the waiting and proof period.

I was told by the dev that this coin ended his ICO and that the coins are released. So now we have the start of the 7 days waiting period that should be used to inform me of any proof that would need to force me to initiate a refund. So check the background of the dev for problems, check the wallet and that the coins are received. Let me know about problems.

Ok everyone, I had a longer conversation with wasserman99 and Iam not sure that I should release the coins just like this. The conversation with wasserman99 was so that I could not follow the plans he had in mind and why it would be needed to receive the coins so fast without being able to show something with the coins he already holds. On top more advertising even though the ICO was for collecting coins.

Well, in any case, I feel not like I should decide this on my own. The coins of the first part of the ICO are out of my reach so this is only about the second part of the ICO.

At the end I have to ask every investor to confirm his investment so that I can see that the coins flew to the escrow address. Every investor needs to decide if he wants to proceed the coins to wasserman99 or wanting a refund. Wasserman99 believes in the investors so that should be in his best interest.

In any case please send me the transaction ID and a proof that you sent the coin that were forwarded to the escrow address afterwards. The rules stated that you need to send the investment including your account id as satoshies or giving me a signature to see that you controlled the sending address. Screenshots of exchanges sending addresses are no safe proof so any such claims without proper proof have to wait so I can see if there is no real investor with proof for these coins. Tell me if you want it to be forwarded and I will do.

No, refunding is not in my interest because it takes alot of time to do so and I could get an easy big amount of escrow tip. Wasserman99 wanted to give me 5% of the escrowed amount, now it was the invested amount, which would be a pretty high amount of value for an ico. Though that's not the cautiousness an escrow should show. If you want a refund then maybe think about a tip and let me know.

In any case here is the conversation I had with wasserman99 so every investor can see what we spoke about.

The most work is done by another shareholder because he has more possibilities. I think he will read this and can see that it means him in reality.

Can this be traced through addresses and the exchange? Dev can you show the coins  (addresses) you held from the beginning till now?

Hi everyone... it looks like the ICO ended and like the escrow rules state there will be a 7 days period of waiting time in which escrow will hold coins after wallets and coins are spread to the investors. This time is meant as an additional insurance to the investors. So please check if everything is working fully fine and that there is nothing related to a scam that can be proven. PM me if there is something since I probably can't read all posts.

If the waiting time went by without a proof that forces me to hold the coins I will release the coins to the dev then.

I wish everyone good luck with the coin and that it is a stable and prospering one and the dev keeps developing it to hold its value.

Only now found the time to check the threads and saw what you wrote... I do not know an escrow that escrows bitcointalk accounts that would red flag accounts. They would never get asked to escrow an account again...

Thanks a lot for your nice reviews everyone... Appreciate it...

I wanted to write colored coins might have made it not needed anymore but then I reminded that I do not know a single system that is really easy to use and good for trading. So maybe they gave up for other reasons?

Geht mir auch so. bitmarketads... erzähl mal worauf zu beim Handeln achtest. Daytrading ist ja eher weniger auf News ausgerichtet daher wirst du vermutlich auf TA vertrauen. Worauf achtest du da, welche Indizes usw. Volumen, Anzahl Shorts und Longs usw. Oder ist das einfach alles mittlerweile Gefühl geworden?

Was deine Angst angeht dass du das morgen nicht mehr kannst... In dem Fall würde ich einfach anfangen mit immer kleineren Beträgen deines Vermögens zu handeln. Die Chance dass du 20 mal dein Teilvermögen verlierst ist schon mal sehr viel geringer als 10 Teilvermögen. Naja... du weißt schon was ich meien.