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1341  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Liquid cooling HD5970 on: February 24, 2011, 07:24:44 AM
The best thing about my water cooling and floor heating is that my wife keeps nagging me to buy a second 5970 to make the floor warmer.  Beat this with a air cooled system. :-)
You are the friggen man... that is like the best idea i've seen lately. whats the watter temps upon entering the floor?
Thanks for the compliments, folks!  Water temperature is currently ~31°C when entering and 26°C when leaving the floor.  This morning the floor held ~23°C.  Outside temp is 0°C and the hall outside the door was ~15°C after a cold and snowy night.

WOW indeed. I though I was crazy enough... so I am guessing in Norway houses are heated year-around, correct? otherwise it would cost you a lot more if you have to use AC pumping those heat out.
We don't have AC.  The sun heats the house in summer, and we open a window or door if it gets too warm inside.  The bathroom floor will be heated all year, but we don't need as much heat in the summer.  I live on the western edge of the country, where we have mild winters (lowest I have measured is -10°C) and cold summers (seldom above 25°C, mostly 10-20°C).  Statistics here.  The plan is to measure temperature and humidity with my sensors, and regulate clock speed and fan according to that and weather on the outside.  I also have another plan..

Sturle, wow ... I was wondering about feasibility on this ... typical domestic hot water can be in 4-6 kWatt range ... about 7-8 HD 5970 cards ... combined heat and GPU power CHGPU solution (i.e. not CHP). Clever way to turn useless heater element resistor in hot water tank into GPU transistor and get computational power (bitcoins) as a bonus.
Step two in my plan is to let the water in the computer circulate through a heat exchanger which pre-heats water before entering our hot water tank.  In the loop I will also have a small used hot water tank, perhaps around 50l, to buffer the heat between showers and baths where a lot of hot water is used at once.  Is this drawing understandable? 

                    ____________     ____ pre-heated water to tank
                   /  _|_   buffer  ><
Computer /   |    | tank      <> -heat exchanger
                 \   |_ _|              ><
                   \__|__________<>_____ cold water in

This will not heat water all they way to hot tap water temperature, but it will do much of the work.

I will not have tap water circulating through my computer because of pressure conditions and the devastating results in case of a leak.  Total amount of water in my system is about 3l, and a leak will not do much damage.  Tap water in unlimited supply will.  I will have a plumber install the heat exchanger connected to my hot water tank.
1342  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Liquid cooling HD5970 on: February 24, 2011, 12:07:59 AM
I've never ever seen any liquid cooled rigs deployed in datacenters. There are must be a reason why pros do not do liquid cooling generally.
I have.  LocalHost.  All the racks are water cooled with cold sea water from the North Sea.  Saves a lot of power.
1343  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Liquid cooling HD5970 on: February 24, 2011, 12:05:00 AM
Another thing: WAF!

I have a liquid cooled miner.  It is dead silent,  but the main point is that it heats our bathroom floor.  Pictures says more than words, so I attached a few.

My computer. An oldish Athlon64 X2 in a cabinet from a previous century.  Sorry about the mess.  The cabinet is usually closed for optimal airflow.  You see the water tube entering at the bottom, water passing through the 5970 water block (the shop were sold out of nipples fitting my tubing, and put in some 1/2" tubing and adapters, so it is a bit messy in there), then through my CPU block before heated water leaves at the top.  The direction has a purpose.  If I start the computer with no pump, the water will flow by itself due to convection.  Convection isn't enough for cooling the 5970 as well, so the pump must be running when mining.  And compare the size of the stock cooler in the lower right corner with the water block.  The card is now half as thick, and the PCI socket next to it is usable again!

Tubes going up through the roof above.  This is not finished.  I'll make better connectors closer to the ceiling and box them in later.  The thing on the tube to the right is a flow indicator.  The cable coming out of the same hole and going to a RJ45 socket (not connected yet), connects a series of temperature sensors embedded in the floor and walls, and a temperature and humidity sensor next to the fan in the bathroom.

Tubes under my bathroom floor and one of the temperature sensors (inside a blue shrink hose).  This is now buried in cement and covered with nice tiles.

Reservoir where the water returns.  Inside there is a small pump (300 l/min, 0.5m head), which keeps the water flow going and bubbles out of the tubes.  Water level inside here is 0-level.  In the tubes above the water level in the reservoir, there is actually a vacuum, and the water pressure inside my computer is low.

The best thing about my water cooling and floor heating is that my wife keeps nagging me to buy a second 5970 to make the floor warmer.  Beat this with a air cooled system. :-)
1344  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Anybody from the UK? on: February 23, 2011, 12:19:19 PM
I need to pay 14 GBP to an account in Barclays bank.  Payment for computer equipment (I don't use VISA, Mastercard or PayPal more than I have to after the Wikileaks scandal.)  It would cost me a silly amount in fees to pay from my Norwegian account, and I wonder if someone in UK would be willing to make the payment for me for 28 BTC?  (That is 28 BTC at 0.5 GBP each.)  The offer is valid for 24 hours.  PM if interested.
1345  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Seeking exchange for converting GBP into BC on: February 23, 2011, 12:04:08 PM
I'm looking to buy bitcoins using GBP. So part of my question is: is there an exchange that accepts GBP?
I need to make a small payment in GBP.  Please have a look at the offer I sent you in PM.  Paying from my bank takes several days and costs money as well.
1346  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin May Be Doomed on: February 08, 2011, 04:09:28 PM
How long has various governments and a lot of companies tried to stop The Pirate Bay?  They can't.  It's on the Internet.  AFAIK no one has been able to stop any information on the Internet yet.  The protocol is robust, and can easily be made more robust.  No, Bitcoin can not be stopped by any realistic means.  In principle it is possible to make ownership or usage of bitcoins illegal, but that is completely unrealistic in most legislations.  Bitcoins are not harmful in any way.
1347  Economy / Economics / Re: When to "move the decimal points" ? on: February 05, 2011, 07:06:56 AM
Bitcoins are 50 times more valuable today than when I first heard about them six months ago.  If they just double in the next six months, they'll have risen 100-fold in a year.

It seems like a good idea to me to come to a consensus now about when to "move the decimal points" -- when should the Bitcoin program allow you to specify payments with more than two decimal places (e.g. "pay Gavin 0.001 BTC for his thoughts") ?

When should the Bitcoin program assume you're entering payments in 'millicoins' or 'microcoins' ?

And when should all of the internal minimums (e.g. smallest transaction fee or the trigger for the 'micro-transaction spam prevention') be lowered?
I think we should allow three decimals now, to make very small payments possible, and have a default fee of one millibitcoin for transactions smaller than 0.01 to discourage overuse.  Note the use of millibitcoin to make people used to the word.  It should be configurable in the client to use bitcoins or millibitcoins as the default unit in the client, but for the time being it should default to using whole bitcoins.

Use familiar SI prefixes.  I do not think bitcoins should be used as a means to introduce an entirely new notation like BTC4 or B4C or whatever.  The concept of Bitcoin is hard enough to grasp itself for beginners.  While it s intuitive to most people that a microbitcon is the same as 0.001 bitcoin, just as one millimetre is 0.001 metre and 1 millilitre is 0.001 litre, it is not at all obvious what those alternative notations mean.
1348  Economy / Economics / Re: When to "move the decimal points" ? on: February 05, 2011, 06:44:18 AM
Go on - ask your mother what "micro", "nano" and "mili" means. I wonder if she knows.
Come on!  Everyone knows at least milli.  Perhaps with the exception of countries using some archaic units of measurement.  Millimetre and millilitre is common examples.  The exact meaning of micro and nano may be forgotten by people who are far past their primary education, but are by no means uncommon words.  Even my mother will know which is smaller, and I'll not be surprised if she knows their exact meaning either.
1349  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Official DiabloMiner Thread on: February 04, 2011, 09:44:26 AM
Art's miner is great, but not without disadvantages.  At -f 30 it is significantly slower than the original miner.  At -f 2 it is faster, but the desktop is useless for interactive work.  Could we have an option to use the old miner?  Perhaps even an option where DiabloMiner switches miner when it has to slow down due to desktop activity, and changes back to Art's miner with -f 1 when the screensaver is on?
Its just a kernel switch. The kernel does not have control over what you describe, so what you describe is impossible.... if Art's miner performs badly, it will perform badly no matter the -f setting.
Not according to Art (from IRC):
23:48 < ArtForz> my kernel usually likes -w 64 or 128 and really low -f
23:48 < ArtForz> I'm running the equivalent of -f 2 her

Quote
Also, if you are using 11.1, don't. Also, -f 30 sounds rather low for keeping your desktop interactive.
I use 10.12  It works for me.  And -f 30 was good enough for me with the previous kernel, and gave a decent hashrate while keeping interactivity.  Art's kernel is not good at this setting, according to ArtForz.
1350  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Official DiabloMiner Thread on: February 04, 2011, 08:36:07 AM
Art's miner is great, but not without disadvantages.  At -f 30 it is significantly slower than the original miner.  At -f 2 it is faster, but the desktop is useless for interactive work.  Could we have an option to use the old miner?  Perhaps even an option where DiabloMiner switches miner when it has to slow down due to desktop activity, and changes back to Art's miner with -f 1 when the screensaver is on?
1351  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin in RALLY mode on: February 03, 2011, 12:19:59 AM
The resistance at 0.7 collapsed. Now, we have to overcome 0.75 before moving on.
Support for the current level is very thin.  All bids combined above 0.66 amount to less than USD 1000, and the order book is thin and full of holes all the way down to 0.56.  At the same time sellers have been very busy fillng in ask orders.  The picture looks very much like it did before the correction from 0.5 to 0.30, just at a higher level.
1352  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: 5970 Cooling Solutions on: January 29, 2011, 03:11:29 PM
So a) go watercooling or b) fiddle around with more case airflow, fans pointed at rear of the card, ..., finally say fuck it and lower Vcore.
ArtForz or anyone if I may ask, do you know if it's possible to bump up the core mhz speed with a slightly lower vcore? I tried lowering vcore from 1.1625 down to 1.1125 just to test... running at just 900mhz core with nothing else raised, sys still locked up on  a test.
Maximum stable with stock voltage and lowish temperature (at least below 80°C, lower is better down to about 60) is about 640 MHz with my card, but this will vary a bit from card to card.  The problem with overvolting, aside from higher temperature, is the fact that your performance per watt will fall significantly.  It would be more profitable in the long run to get another card than to invest in advanced cooling solutions, assuming you pay for the electricity.  A 5770 and a waterblock for a 5970 cost about the same, and the 5770 gives much better Mhash/$.  A stock 5770 gives better performance per watt than an overvolted 5970.  Power consumption is proportional to the frequency (linear) and square of the voltage.
Quote
I see people claiming 650-700khash with their 5970's on here so if there's any suggestions I can tweak, I'll try them. Thanks for any input. Smiley
I get 620 with mine overclocked to 840 MHz.  I think this is common.  mrb's miner will probably perform a few percent better.
1353  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Official DiabloMiner Thread on: January 25, 2011, 10:05:17 PM
Also, if it periodically hangs, your card might be too hot. Make sure it remains under 85c.
The cheap card is about 50°C.  The HD5970 runs with forced fan to about 70°C.  I've tried underclocking and running at even lower temperatures, and it hangs just as often.  -w 64 does not hang any of the cards.
1354  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Official DiabloMiner Thread on: January 23, 2011, 04:54:22 PM
Im having trouble reading that graph.... you're only using power of 2 values for -w right? 64 seems to be the fastest, 256 (== hardware max) is the default. This applies to 4xxx and 5xxx Radeons. Not sure what Nvidia does, though.
IMHO you should change the default to 64 on ATI.

I have two computers mining.  One with one 5450 for mining only, and another ATI card for video.  The other computer has one 5970.  Both machines run Ubuntu (different versions) with the latest ATI driver.  This is the only thing they have in common.

Both experience ASIC hangs every now and then, and require a reboot to start working again when using DiabloMiner with default worksize.  On the machine with two cards, I get white stripes across the screen when mining on the other card.  This only happens when mining and using the computer for normal desktop work at the same time.  Nothing fancy.  When I set worksize to 64, the ASIC hang bug (probably a driver bug) goes away completely, and the problem with white stripes on the second card only show occasionally.
1355  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Bitcoin has gone over $0.40 on mtgox on: January 22, 2011, 03:22:45 PM
It all reaches a natural equilibrium to relate its true price. But the worries are if the price is based on speculation or actual value at that time. Speculators will be the doom of BitCoin.
What is the difference between actual value and price based on speculation?  Price is what people want to pay for bitcoins.  No more, no less.  Define your "true price" or "actual value".
1356  Economy / Marketplace / Re: NEW SITE Classified ads on: January 16, 2011, 09:24:19 PM
Well, perhaps advertising. But the main problem is the promotion of bitcoin.
Especially to make money is still far.
If you own bitcoins, promoting bitcoins is a good way to make money.  When more people use and need bitcoins, your coins increase in value.
1357  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I am not a miner, I am a farmer! on: January 14, 2011, 10:21:53 PM
Yeah, I mean that, you can buy some rack cabinets and just put them in a small room with the thermostat at negative 10C - positive 5C. [...]
This will pull at least 50% more electricity.  For cooling.

I have a better solution.  I am half done rebuilding my bathroom.  In the floor I've put water tubes where the cooling water from my miner will circulate and warm the floor and the room.  A big improvement from the current all electrical floor heating.  I will actually make money form the electricity I use to heat the bathroom.  In the worst case, if my miner don't find another block ever, I still don't use more electricity to heat my bathroom floor than I used earlier.  I can't lose!

Story and pictures will come when I'm done. :-)
1358  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin parity. on: January 14, 2011, 09:04:14 AM
MtGox just made a jump. We are at 0.4 USD per BTC now. Cheesy

That was speculation. We're back to ~0,33.
That was speculation.  We're back to ~0.4.

Seriously.  The market can move far in any direction at the moment without beeing an indicator for anything but a small buy or sale.  There is no resistance between 0.27 and 0.51.
1359  Economy / Economics / Re: Peak oil, fact, fiction or government scape goat? on: January 10, 2011, 03:46:18 PM
Actually just read the recent articles on his blog, earlywarn.blogspot.com. His article on potential future Iraqi production is the most important.
Not very probable, if you ask me.  Iraq is a very unstable country.  Millions of their brightest heads (40% of the middle class) have fled since the beginning of the war, and the constant stream of refugees from Iraq is still continuing.  A lot of essential infrastructure is still down and can't be rebuilt safely due to the risk of attacks.  The country just managed to pull toghether a weak government eight months after the general election!  Production numbers for the first week in January 2011 are far below what this growth plan predicted for the end of 2010.  The plan must be revised already, but I guess everything is on track according to the Information Minister.  :-D
1360  Economy / Economics / Re: Peak oil, fact, fiction or government scape goat? on: January 10, 2011, 12:36:59 PM
Is the whole peak oil thing and it's doomsday predictions just a bunch of mis-information?
It is true, but only half the truth is presented.

Oil supply is getting lower, but gas supplies are increasing.  A lot.  Natural gas is CH4.  Oil is just chains of CH2 of various length with a extra H in both ends. CH4 (methane) is the simplest form.  C2H6, C3H8, C4H10, etc.  You get the picture.  Octane is C8H18.  Very long lengths makes cheap heavy oils and asphalt.  It is common practice by refineries to "crack" heavy oils by treating with natural gas or hydrogen (made from natural gas) to crack the long chains and make shorter chains.

A similar process called hydrogenization is possible with coal.  Germany produced most of their fuel and oils from coal and water during WWII, and as a result got much better fuel and oils than the allies.  Only in short supply, since it was hard to keep production up while the allies were bombing.  South Africa also produced synthetic fuel on a large scale during the long boycott in the 1980's.  The same processes can be modified to work with coal and natural gas.  Coal and natural gas is plentiful.  Peak oil only means that refineries needs modifications to make fuel from other stockpiles.  This is already being done as a part of normal maintenance and renewing all refineries do.  Refineries with high cracking capacity already have a great advantage because heavy raw oil is much cheaper than light qualities of raw oil.

You probably already use a synthetic motor oil in your car, because it is better.  In the future only cheap gas and diesel will be made from raw oil.  Wikipedia has a interesting article on synthetic fuels in general.
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