Do you have a reference for computer systems?
I cannot find it at this moment, I thought it was on this thread but apparently not as I don't find it. I believe many of you remember the quote from some 3 days ago Gox talking about SWIFT limits and second biggest bank in Japan in the same sentence. Yes, and I can not remember any mention about overloading computer systems. Btw, Japan is a very large and developed economy, very different from the developing economies in the rest of Asia. Most of the economic activity happens within Japan's borders, and most foreign trade is done by large companies buying and selling products in bulk. 10 SWIFT transfers a day isn't much, but I can believe MT's claim of that being more than most companies in Japan. Toyota don't send a SWIFT transfer for each foreign part in each car. They buy large shipments in bulk, and probably send payment for much less than 10 foreign orders a day by average. |
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Gox has let us understand they have run into problems related to overloading the computer systems at the second biggest bank in Japan
Do you have a reference for computer systems? My impression is that all irregularities which make manual work for the bank is to blame. E.g. wrong names or other information on accounts, or other banks returning or refusing to process transfers, or requesting return of transfers. I'm surprised to hear it was the computer systems. |
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fees [...] worth millions of USD now
Not necessarily. It is known that they were constantly converting BTC fees into USD. If I remember correctly the trades where gox converted BTC fees into fiat were actually tracked for some time on this forum. Examples? MtGox and their employees are not allowed to trade on their own exchange. I suggested that MtGox introduced an option to take all fees in fiat, which they did and made default for new accounts. They have made much less BTC from fees since then. AFAIK MtGox never exchanged their BTC into USD due to regulatory issues. (MtGox would have to do that on another exchange, if they are permitted to trade BTC at all.) It would not be wise to assume that gox has kept all the BTC fees and enjoyed thousands percent ROI on those. We do not know that.
No, a lot of thee fees have been spent on buying companies. 17k BTC on some exchange in Poland which managed to delete their wallet (17k was enough to reimburse their customers), some on a market watch site, 25k on Bitcoin Foundation membership, etc. AFAIK this is their policy. Spend the BTC as BTC. |
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You and others have proclaimed weeks ago when we where at 75$ to buy on Gox and sell immediately on Bitstamp. People who have followed this stupid advice have lost much more than 10%!
I see a lot of desire for the escalation here. You and others are downright horny for disaster. This is so sick.
+1. Several of the people trying to escalate the situation by spreading rumours here, are busy taking arbitrage as well. (I know a few, but won't mention names.) Spending some time here to talk people into giving them 10% of their money by selling for cheap on other exchanges is very profitable. |
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this is not a promotion. it is just stating the facts that people can use various exchange. And to date, MtGox is still the largest.
It still holds true that my account at MtGox is 0 BTC, 0 fiat.
At least my fiat seems to be safe at MtGox.  10% instant profit on deposits via BTC, and it may be a smart place to hold fiat when fiat withdrawals are back to normal. I see cheap BTC on the horizon. Simple to change currency as well, when the USD goes down the drain. Even at a profit, depending on the price differences between different currencies at MtGox. My bot has been juggling between BTC and different fiat currencies very successfully for a while. Not an ideal place to keep fiat right now for those who can't afford it, of course. Just be sure not to confuse the "XXXX.XX USD" in your account balance as actual cash. It is just a number. If MTGOX is insolvent then you are essentially playing with monopoly money as the rush to the exits will determine who gets bitcoin and withdraws it to claim they actually "HAVE" something of value. This is true for all exchanges. If I believed any of them were insolvent, I wouldn't keep money there. The BTC MtGox made in fees for the first year of operation after introducing fees alone is worth millions of USD now. And there are 14 million USD (fiat) in the order book alone. This is USD which hasn't been withdrawn yet. I don't believe it is possible for MtGox to waste 14 million USD in this short time. And so far withdrawals in JPY to banks in Japan flows normally. This is consistent with the explanation of wire transfer problems and no solvency problems. |
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this is not a promotion. it is just stating the facts that people can use various exchange. And to date, MtGox is still the largest.
It still holds true that my account at MtGox is 0 BTC, 0 fiat.
At least my fiat seems to be safe at MtGox. 10% instant profit on deposits via BTC, and it may be a smart place to hold fiat when fiat withdrawals are back to normal. I see cheap BTC on the horizon. Simple to change currency as well, when the USD goes down the drain. Even at a profit, depending on the price differences between different currencies at MtGox. My bot has been juggling between BTC and different fiat currencies very successfully for a while. Not an ideal place to keep fiat right now for those who can't afford it, of course. |
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It's now been 1 week since I requested a JPY Domestic Withdraw. It is for 10k Yen and still shows as "Confirmed."
So it does not appear that their SWIFT limit is the problem.
Also, 10 SWIFT transfers a day is BS, I've sent more than that in a day (I don't routinely do it, but nobody at my bank cares if i want to make 10 SWIFT transfers...).
Just to confirm once again, I have USD SWIFT Wire pending since 6/17 (6 figures), EUR SWIFT to Poland, EUR SEPA to Poland, and JPY to domestic japanese bank.
NONE of these have come through yet.
I'm going to go ahead and cancel a few of my withdraws and just take the hit to withdraw bitcoin. I don't see the situation at gox getting any better.
Can someone please ask MagicalTux on IRC about JPY domestic transfers. There would seem to be no excuse for delayed JPY transfers other than liquidity problems. This is the only report I've seen about delayed transfer of JPY to Japan. Everyone else seem to have their money in their account on the next day. Perhaps there is a queue issue? As long as the previous withdrawals are stuck in queue, the later JPY transfer will not be executed? This is pure speculation, of course. I would contact support. If it fails, contact Mark on IRC when he is awake. By the way -- sending 10 SWIFT transfers on one day is not the same as sending 10 every day. Of course I wish we knew more about the reason for this limit. |
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I thought their dwolla acct was seized due to non MSB compliance in the US which Mark lied about over a year ago about.
Did Mark ever claim MtGox was MSB compliant in the US? They relied on Dwolla, which is (or claims to be) and banks (which are). Then DHS came about and declared Mutum Sigillum a threat to USSA homeland security due to some technicality in how MtGox transfer USD to and from Dwolla. See: http://numismatics.pwnz.org/15may-dhs-seizure-of-mtgox-funds-held-by-dwolla/ |
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[07:42] <cyro432> I am aware of a number of delayed wire transfers over 3 weeks old
[07:42] <@MagicalTux> cyro432: not much we can do right now because of US govt
He is talking about the current situation, not Dwolla in May. The date of that conversation was July 24th.
So you don't think the shutdown of Dwolla increased the load of USD withdrawals via their bank? Interesting. Why? |
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I know. Laws against money laundering make a lot of trouble for their customers. But you are attacking the wrong people for it. You should attack the government instead. And their bank regarding the limit of SWIFT transfers per day. Fortunately MtGox are working with other banks to solve this particular problem, and the SEPA queue is already getting shorter. To raise the amount limits beyond what the anti money laundering laws permit, you have to go elsewhere, however. There are no number of transaction limits associated with anti-money-laundering laws. Read again. There are reporting requirements and a blacklist. There are prohibitions against making many little transactions below the reporting threshold ("smurfing").
Even Mt. Gox isn't claiming they have limits imposed by anti-money-laundering laws. (Because that can be checked.)
Please tell us more about the laws and regulations against money laundering in Japan. What are the limits and what is MtGox required to report? When are they required to be more careful? |
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At 10 SWIFT transfers a day the delays will obviously be endless. Yes. That's very convenient for Mt. Gox if the suckers let them get away with it. Mt. Gox has always had anti-withdrawal policies. Their FAQ says there are no limits on deposits, but there are both rate and amount limits on withdrawals. That's always been suspicious. I know. Laws against money laundering make a lot of trouble for their customers. But you are attacking the wrong people for it. You should attack the government instead. And their bank regarding the limit of SWIFT transfers per day. Fortunately MtGox are working with other banks to solve this particular problem, and the SEPA queue is already getting shorter. To raise the amount limits beyond what the anti money laundering laws permit, you have to go elsewhere, however. Assuming this isn't another fake excuse from Mt. Gox (given their track record, that's a strong possibility) they need a competent CFO. They either have no clue about cash management, or they like having excuses for not paying.
MtGox's track record is better than most other exchanges. They're still in default on their obligations. It doesn't matter why they can't pay, only that they didn't. There are other ways they could make payments. They could write checks and send them by FedEx, for example.
I haven't seen a check in my country since the early eighties. I got a check for 20 USD from an US company in 1998, but it was only valid in the USA. Travelling to Japan to cash out a check wouldn't be very attractive either, if they still have checks in Japan. Are checks still used anywhere? Edit: I would actually be very pissed if any exchange sent me a check which I would have to travel around half the world to redeem, and call that a payment. I didn't do more business with the US company either. Scammers. |
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Here are some new IRC quotes for you, reordered for readability: 13:43 < sturles> SEPA has been delayed for as long as I can remember. I wish
MtGox had more SEPA banks, but they generally don't like
Bitcoin buisnesses. Perhaps the one in Slovenia which
Bitstamp is using could be worth a try? Could be troubled
with the same issue, of course.
13:48 <@MagicalTux> sturles, we already applied to that one
13:53 < sturles> MagicalTux: Great! Lower SEPA delays would do wonders! In
fact all good news regarding delays would be wonderful at this
time..
13:54 <@MagicalTux> sturles, we've been reducing SEPA delay day by day
13:54 <@MagicalTux> things are much better than one month ago
13:54 < sturles> Have your limits increased?
13:54 <@MagicalTux> nope
This is great news! That is not great news, sounds like the Slovenia bank rejected their application. Also, their limits have not increased. This is bad news. Do you have a source for your claim that the bank in Slovenia rejected their application, or are you making that up? Reducing SEPA delay is very good news. SEPA withdrawals have been delayed for weeks and months for as long as I can remember. The forum threads about SEPA delays are years old. SWIFT used to be the solution (at a higher fee), and when that ceased to be a solution, the matters got even worse for a while, and are now finally improving. 13:50 < samson_> MagicalTux: Would you say we're facing a banking embargo on
the entire Bitcoin business ?
13:51 <@MagicalTux> samson_, things are not easy, but it's far from what you
could qualify as "embargo"
13:51 < samson_> ok thanks
Difficulties (we know that from many countries, e.g. UK), but no organized embargo. I don't think he is going to go "yep, no bank wants to do business with us" (for some lolz, please refer to previous answer in section above). He skirts around the question by directly referring to "embargo" rather than the difficulties they are facing, which he has confirmed prior<@MagicalTux> cyro432: not much we can do right now because of US govt" If you lift the rock you live under and look back, you may notice that 40% of all Bitcoin exchanges have either been forced to close or have had serious problems due to banks not wanting them as customers any more. Banking and Bitcoin have never been good friends. Bitcoin exchanges in Europe are limited to very few banks which are not hostile, and those banks are in countries far from the exchanges. This should tell you something. 13:58 < sturles> Btw, there are roumous now that USD withdrawals are somehow
blocked entirely. Is there any truth to that? Some people
intepret this as "US government are blocking all USD
withdrawals": <@MagicalTux> cyro432: not much we can do right
now because of US govt
13:59 <@MagicalTux> sturles, "blocked" is not the correct word
14:00 < sturles> What is the exact problem then? You can see here how the
speculations go:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=179586.msg2918767#msg2918767
14:01 <@MagicalTux> sturles, we are not allowed to talk about the exact problem
(doing so would only make things worse)
That's no explanation of the problem, but explains the lack of news. For other currencies: I don't see how this answer doesn't scare the hell out of you. And you brush it off like its an acceptable reply. "Not allowed to talk about the exact problem" that is by far the worst excuse for lack of transparency. The USSA are issuing "National Security Letters" by the truckload these days – everybody has at least one – and secret laws, regulations, courts and concentration camps make sure we don't want to talk about it to each other. This isn't news. When dealing with the USSA we are not allowed to speak our own opinion. 13:58 < SleepersTide> MagicalTux: Are Australian bank transfer withdrawals
being processed normally?
13:58 < SleepersTide> (also how long do those take?)
14:00 <@MagicalTux> SleepersTide, right now all SWIFT transfers are processed
up to the limits of our current bank (up to 10 transfers
per day - we should be able to increase that as soon as we
have more banking partners ready - it's taking longer than
expected because of the time required by the people at the
bank to understand our business)
14:10 < sturles> MagicalTux: Why only 10 SWIFT transfers per day? Is that
commonplace for customers in your bank?
14:12 <@MagicalTux> sturles, most companies in Japan will do one, maybe two
SWIFT transfers a month to providers overseas (actually
most will do zero)14:14 < Delerium> when you say transfers per day you mean 10 swift runs
(containing LOADS of transfers within) or literally just 10
transfers
14:16 <@MagicalTux> Delerium, literal
14:17 <@MagicalTux> when we were in the second largest bank in Japan, we
represented more than half of all the volume of SWIFT
processed by that bank (almost overloading their systems a
couple of times)
With only 10 withdrawals per day in all other currencies than JPY and EUR, it is going to take time. And he confirms again that MtGox are in fact overloading their bank. The discussion is still going on, btw. About ordering and more about transparency: "Its taking longer than expected... [for] the people at the bank to understand our business." I just don't know what to say at this point. I mean to expect me to believe that it takes 2-3 months for very intelligent individuals at a bank to understand how Bitcoin works is difficult. And that they overloaded the second largest bank in Japan is extremely hard to believe. See previous note about exchanges closing or getting in serious trouble due to banking trouble. Are Barclays still sitting on Intersango's GBP? It is vitally important that the banks understand what MtGox are doing. Otherwise we'll just end up with even more trouble and locked funds. 14:17 < rfish> MagicalTux: I think you owe it to customers to make the numbers
of swift transfers you are doing per day more public and explain
the reasons
14:18 <@MagicalTux> rfish, rather than spending time on this, fixing it is
likely going to bring more on the long term
14:18 < rfish> MagicalTux: And you should be fair about which you do, like
wires greater than X amount, in the order they are received
14:19 <@MagicalTux> those wires are processed in received order, nothing else
"<@MagicalTux> rather than spending time on this, fixing it is likely going to bring more on the long term" Ok, well in the 30 seconds you spend reviewing your press releases, maybe you should insert some truth somewhere. This is a different statement than before "<@MagicalTux> Not allowed to talk about the exact problem" instead he shifts the blame to being "too busy." I understand that the SWIFT limit is not exactly the same as their USD problem, but this may be a misunderstanding. At least he explains how they are working to solve their problem with SWIFT transfer limits. I agree that fixing the problem is more important than talking about it. "<@MagicalTux> those wires are processed in received order, nothing else"
This is in direct contradiction to what MagicalTux posted a few weeks ago where he said that "5 digit or more" wires were taking priority. I'm done. No further explanation necessary. Let everyone decide for themselves whether or not they believe any word that comes out of Gox's mouth.
July 24, 2013:
[14:45] <@MagicalTux> right now we're giving priority to larger transfers
[14:45] <racerx> please define "larger"
[14:46] <@MagicalTux> 5 digits or more
This has obviously changed. Perhaps they have listened to all the protests. I don't know. At 10 SWIFT transfers a day the delays will obviously be endless unless they focus on solving the problem instead of the exact ordering of the queue. |
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This looks like a the contradiction between what ivanb and MagicalTux say: SEPA test withdraw of 101€ from 05.08.2013 arrived today!
Larger EU withdrwas of 700 - 1000 € didnt arrive after 5 weeks of waiting, so I canceld it.
14:19 <@MagicalTux> those wires are processed in received order, nothing else
You quoted Mark out of context. SEPA != SWIFT As I understand it SWIFT transfers are limited by number of transfers, while SEPA is limited by a daily amount. It only makes sense then to fill the daily SEPA quota with small transfers to maximize their throughput. |
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I don't get it. What is new here? The Dwolla seizure has been known for a while. Have you been living in a cave for the last three months?
No. What Karpeles is confirming is that the USD withdraws are being halted by the US gov. NOT due to problems with Mt.Gox's banking connections, which they have used as an excuse the last 2 months. This essentially means that USD withdraws will not resume for quite some time, if ever. This is pure speculation. From the context I assumed, and still assume, he was referring to the Dwolla case which significantly increased the load on USD bank wires. Why don't you ask him yourself? He is frequently active and answering questions in #mtgox on freenode. I'm sure he would have been there a lot more if it hadn't been for the zombies nagging about scamcoins they want on MtGox whenever he types something. It is early morning in Japan now. He'll be there soon. Here are some new IRC quotes for you, reordered for readability: 13:43 < sturles> SEPA has been delayed for as long as I can remember. I wish
MtGox had more SEPA banks, but they generally don't like
Bitcoin buisnesses. Perhaps the one in Slovenia which
Bitstamp is using could be worth a try? Could be troubled
with the same issue, of course.
13:48 <@MagicalTux> sturles, we already applied to that one
13:53 < sturles> MagicalTux: Great! Lower SEPA delays would do wonders! In
fact all good news regarding delays would be wonderful at this
time..
13:54 <@MagicalTux> sturles, we've been reducing SEPA delay day by day
13:54 <@MagicalTux> things are much better than one month ago
13:54 < sturles> Have your limits increased?
13:54 <@MagicalTux> nope
This is great news! 13:50 < samson_> MagicalTux: Would you say we're facing a banking embargo on
the entire Bitcoin business ?
13:51 <@MagicalTux> samson_, things are not easy, but it's far from what you
could qualify as "embargo"
13:51 < samson_> ok thanks
Difficulties (we know that from many countries, e.g. UK), but no organized embargo. 13:58 < sturles> Btw, there are roumous now that USD withdrawals are somehow
blocked entirely. Is there any truth to that? Some people
intepret this as "US government are blocking all USD
withdrawals": <@MagicalTux> cyro432: not much we can do right
now because of US govt
13:59 <@MagicalTux> sturles, "blocked" is not the correct word
14:00 < sturles> What is the exact problem then? You can see here how the
speculations go:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=179586.msg2918767#msg2918767
14:01 <@MagicalTux> sturles, we are not allowed to talk about the exact problem
(doing so would only make things worse)
That's no explanation of the problem, but explains the lack of news. For other currencies: 13:58 < SleepersTide> MagicalTux: Are Australian bank transfer withdrawals
being processed normally?
13:58 < SleepersTide> (also how long do those take?)
14:00 <@MagicalTux> SleepersTide, right now all SWIFT transfers are processed
up to the limits of our current bank (up to 10 transfers
per day - we should be able to increase that as soon as we
have more banking partners ready - it's taking longer than
expected because of the time required by the people at the
bank to understand our business)
14:10 < sturles> MagicalTux: Why only 10 SWIFT transfers per day? Is that
commonplace for customers in your bank?
14:12 <@MagicalTux> sturles, most companies in Japan will do one, maybe two
SWIFT transfers a month to providers overseas (actually
most will do zero)14:14 < Delerium> when you say transfers per day you mean 10 swift runs
(containing LOADS of transfers within) or literally just 10
transfers
14:16 <@MagicalTux> Delerium, literal
14:17 <@MagicalTux> when we were in the second largest bank in Japan, we
represented more than half of all the volume of SWIFT
processed by that bank (almost overloading their systems a
couple of times)
With only 10 withdrawals per day in all other currencies than JPY and EUR, it is going to take time. And he confirms again that MtGox are in fact overloading their bank. The discussion is still going on, btw. About ordering and more about transparency: 14:17 < rfish> MagicalTux: I think you owe it to customers to make the numbers
of swift transfers you are doing per day more public and explain
the reasons
14:18 <@MagicalTux> rfish, rather than spending time on this, fixing it is
likely going to bring more on the long term
14:18 < rfish> MagicalTux: And you should be fair about which you do, like
wires greater than X amount, in the order they are received
14:19 <@MagicalTux> those wires are processed in received order, nothing else
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I don't get it. What is new here? The Dwolla seizure has been known for a while. Have you been living in a cave for the last three months?
No. What Karpeles is confirming is that the USD withdraws are being halted by the US gov. NOT due to problems with Mt.Gox's banking connections, which they have used as an excuse the last 2 months. This essentially means that USD withdraws will not resume for quite some time, if ever. This is pure speculation. From the context I assumed, and still assume, he was referring to the Dwolla case which significantly increased the load on USD bank wires. Why don't you ask him yourself? He is frequently active and answering questions in #mtgox on freenode. I'm sure he would have been there a lot more if it hadn't been for the zombies nagging about scamcoins they want on MtGox whenever he types something. It is early morning in Japan now. He'll be there soon. |
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Can anyone confirm this conversation? If this is true, then we need to escalate this to a major news source. Gox needs to be outed for the fraud that it really is.
I can confirm it - it's on my screen now in the #mtgox channel on freenode. [07:40] * cyro432 has joined #mtgox [07:40] <cyro432> MagicalTux, people in this forum are saying they are going to go to SEC over not receiving money [07:40] <cyro432> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=179586.500[07:41] <Title> [ MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering] ] [07:41] <DBordello> MagicalTux, that would be great. I am sure it'd help reduce the load [07:42] <cyro432> I am aware of a number of delayed wire transfers over 3 weeks old [07:42] <@MagicalTux> cyro432: not much we can do right now because of US govt [07:44] * torment has joined #mtgox [07:49] * sheldonthomas has joined #mtgox [07:53] <phantomcircuit> cyro432, irony of ironies going to the us gov to fix a problem they largely created The differences in time shown here are due to the IRC program displaying local time. My timezone is GMT+7, Bangkok time. Whoa, alright time to hit up some media contacts everyone! I don't get it. What is new here? The Dwolla seizure has been known for a while. Have you been living in a cave for the last three months? |
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02:42 < cyro432> I am aware of a number of delayed wire transfers over 3 weeks old
02:42 <@MagicalTux> cyro432: not much we can do right now because of US govt
it's the first time I've seen MtGox basically say "Well, it's really not our bank that has limits, it's the US Government who somehow prevents us from sending out USD withdraws". I also think it's important to document the various stories / explanations as they come/change. Eh? I read: Due to the US government regarding MtGox a threat to their homeland security, we are unable to process the bulk of our USD transfers via Dwolla like we used to. This fact has been known for a while. There is no word there about banks, and no news. |
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Why do you think the U.S. government have any interest in solving the problem after all they've done to create it? If you are an enemy of Bitcoin and want to make trouble for alternative exchanges as well, SEC is the way. Bitstamp can be closed any time due to obvious breach of an EU directive. Bitfinex do their trading at Bitstamp and will go down the same drain. What are we left with then? Do you want to trust your money with BTC-E? An exchange in China, perhaps?
Everybody should keep quiet about the emperor having no clothes, because it's the only one we've got? Read again. |
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I and other customers would be grateful if you could wait until their banking problems are solved. If it isn't helping, don't.
Well, if the consensus is that it won't help the majority of bitcoiners , I will hold off with the complaint. I don't see a consensus, I see one person trying to speak for the whole. I would file a complaint with the SEC if I were you. I would do it myself if I had any funds with MtGox but I saw this coming before the Dwolla shutdown. So you are not a customer. You are not entitled to vote. Why do you think the U.S. government have any interest in solving the problem after all they've done to create it? If you are an enemy of Bitcoin and want to make trouble for alternative exchanges as well, SEC is the way. Bitstamp can be closed any time due to obvious breach of an EU directive. Bitfinex do their trading at Bitstamp and will go down the same drain. What are we left with then? Do you want to trust your money with BTC-E? An exchange in China, perhaps? |
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Not as long as people are still receiving their wires, and there are steady reports from people receiving their wires.
What? no-one has received a USD wire since early June. ? So he managed to produce screenshots to earn a prize. Why was his USD wire requested on 4 July processed when requests more than two weeks older still haven't been processed? Probably smaller withdrawals (queue is largest first) or withdrawals involving Citbank (blocking, returning, etc). |
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