What is the theory - why is goxbtc/goxusd price so low?
OMG its not a theory, its in front of your eyes ! Insiders (people connected to Mark and other readily accessibles accounts and he himself are cashing out!) no matter what ---- nobody is doing anything about that --- so they just go on....extincting any kind of proove...creating a story together with some parasites laywers and the die is cast - pronto This does not answer the question - why is goxbtc price so cheap compared to goxusd. They are both gox, and have been non-withdrawable for about 4 weeks. Is not people still reporting EUR withdraws being processed? From what I've seen, EUR withdraws still occur. Also, people who believe gox is insolvent would rather hold USD maybe because they believe it will be easier to get the USD back legally. Nobody in their right mind would sell at Gox at these prices not you, not me not panicked japanese nobody who erroneously thinks btcs as an asset is not claimable.....really noone...besides?  ? I'm glad I'm out of Mtgox now because I probably would have been one of those people on Mtgox sitting there with all my Mtgox BTC wondering why as the price dropped from $900 to $100 today. |
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You know when the price on Gox reaches zero that they will not owe anything to anyone?
LOL. Hadn't thought of that. Except everyone with fiat. Like that panic sell going on right now?  |
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But I thought you sent your Mtgox BTC to Josh and Josh also holds all the real BTC. The Mtgox BTC and real BTC stays with him until you withdraw like an exchange.
I think you're right, after reading his FAQ. I do not understand Gox (never having used it) so it is not surprising that I do not understand how he can hold the goxcoin. Do they have a c2c xfer system? I think I understand this now. Basically if Mtgox dies, he shouldn't have to take any of the responsibility, but all that fake Mtgox BTC will be with him when it does goes down (unless buyer asked for it to be delivered to their Mtgox account.) Even though it shouldn't matter since it's all gone and he would have delivered it if he had the possibility, there may still be a legal risk to him. :/ Basically he found a way to send Mtgox BTC to verified accounts. I'm not even sure if you can get your Mtgox BTC back if you don't have a verified Mtgox account. Everyone can send Gox-Btc from one mtgox account to another account ,internally. This is still still working. Mtgox being insolvent, Josh can instantly send the gox-coin to the respective gox addresses , unless the website goes down. Yes. I guess it wouldn't matter if Josh had the Mtgox coins or you did if the website goes down. It will technically be worth $0. |
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But I thought you sent your Mtgox BTC to Josh and Josh also holds all the real BTC. The Mtgox BTC and real BTC stays with him until you withdraw like an exchange.
I think you're right, after reading his FAQ. I do not understand Gox (never having used it) so it is not surprising that I do not understand how he can hold the goxcoin. Do they have a c2c xfer system? I think I understand this now. Basically if Mtgox dies, he shouldn't have to take any of the responsibility, but all that fake Mtgox BTC will be with him when it does goes down (unless buyer asked for it to be delivered to their Mtgox account.) Even though it shouldn't matter since it's all gone and he would have delivered it if he had the opportunity, there may still be a legal risk to him. :/ Basically he found a way to send Mtgox BTC to verified accounts. I'm not even sure if you can get your Mtgox BTC back if you don't have a verified Mtgox account. |
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If you trade your Mtgox BTC to Bitcoinbuilder and Mtgox declares bankruptcy, what happens? Briefly looked over the website and found nothing.
I would assume they would return them to the actual owners. Not that it would matter much... Mtgox BTC would be $0, so Josh and all the people who fulfilled buy orders would be screwed. But would Josh fulfill his transactions to those who had successful Sell Orders on his site? That's the real question. Josh is a market maker, he doesn't own any Gox-btc apart from the 2% fee on buy orders. Buyers of Gox-btc do. They reap the reward or take the hit. I'm not 100% sure how Bitcoin Builder works. But I thought you sent your Mtgox BTC to Josh and Josh also holds all the real BTC. The Mtgox BTC and real BTC stays with him until you withdraw like an exchange. |
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They don't really have coins in Gox, do they? It's the only scenario that makes sense. Which is more likely, from a logistical standpoint; Gox enables BTC withdrawals, or Gox enables USD withdrawals? I think most people would answer BTC withdrawals (in the absence of anything shady going on). So.... If you had one or the other stuck in there, which asset would you roll the dice on? The huge sells down to $13X, or whatever it is now, would indicate that the majority feel it's more likely that they will get USD out of Gox in the future. What? How could anyone believe that? (in the absence of some other knowledge).
The prices being 25% of what they are on other exchanges would suggest that it's a 4:1 majority who feel this way. That's just nuts. If they are insolvent, you aren't getting either (so why trade for the depreciated asset?), and if it's really just a technical glitch, that every other BTC exchange in the world has already fixed, then the expectation would be that Gox should eventually stumble upon the fix as well. Both of these scenarios would lead me to hold BTC, not Goxbux, were I forced to make that choice. Gox has been working to find a bank to process withdrawals for months with no success, all the while they are becoming a less desirable business partner in the eyes of the world. The idea that USD is going to be the winning asset to hold there is the worst possible assumption.
So what am I suggesting? There are no BTC there. They are just moving numbers around inside a ledger for commission, in a desperate bid for solvency. Selling their fake BTC to anyone willing to pay anything, while halting withdrawals on the only known technical glitch which could affect them somehow. Curious they were the first to encounter and announce this huge problem with bitcoin, and the last to sort it out. (Tongue firmly in cheek)
So I'm becoming reasonably certain that insolvency is the real issue, but it's hard to know how deep in it they are. If it's just a few thousand BTC, perhaps this stunt will close the gap. They buy back the BTC they owe on other exchanges or OTC with all the commission they took selling fake coins, and limit withdrawals exactly right to slowly climb back into the black, and nobody ever knows how close they came to collapse. But if it's an impossibly wide gap, they waited too long, and no stunt is going to close it, what are they doing right now? Maybe they are trying to work out a deal with a large BTC holder to cover their position until they can right the ship in exchange for part of the commissions. I can't think of any other good way out of it.
The problem is that MtGox PR department has been terrible up to this point. Otherwise I'm guessing the panic wouldn't be as crazy. And one of the theories is it's easier to sue based on a $$$ value rather than amount of BTC value. |
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If you trade your Mtgox BTC to Bitcoinbuilder and Mtgox declares bankruptcy, what happens? Briefly looked over the website and found nothing.
I would assume they would return them to the actual owners. Not that it would matter much... Mtgox BTC would be $0, so Josh and all the people who fulfilled buy orders would be screwed. But would Josh fulfill his transactions to those who had successful Sell Orders on his site? That's the real question. |
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Anyone buying on Bitcoinbuilder.com? price seems to be hovering at .5
If you trade your Mtgox BTC to Bitcoinbuilder and Mtgox declares bankruptcy, what happens? Briefly looked over the website and found nothing. |
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I'd like to thank BTC-E and Bitstamp for staying classy!  |
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probably alot of hating on karpeles now so im making a new meme to see the other side  depressed mark karpeles meme!  That reminds is that Coinlab lawsuit still going on or has that been settled? |
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20,000 volume in the last hour and they all made Gox $8 * 20K so that's $160K USD for Gox. No that can't be right is it assuming the majority is the 0.05% fee.
Large players have much, much lower trading fees. Down to 0.02% but I miscalculated. It's $16K. |
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Everyone does realize that if Gox is solvent they really don't care how low their price goes?
They obviously don't give a fuck or they would have halted trading. 20,000 volume in the last hour and they all made Gox $8 * 20K so that's $160K USD for Gox. No that can't be right is it assuming the majority is the 0.05% fee. Edit: Decimal in wrong place. It's 16K haha Scared me. |
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Everyone does realize that if Gox is solvent they really don't care how low their price goes?
I'm wondering how much Mtgox Fiat is sitting on the sideslines. It must be a ridiculous number.... |
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Whoever survives the Gox massacare has just quuintupled their BTC if they don't die of a heart attack first. If they sold at the ATH they'd have 9x (and climbing) as many BTC right now. I don't know if I should be jealous or happy. Depends how this all plays out. I was able to get 95% of my BTC out of Gox at $960. My last smallest transaction failed. I think I may have been one of the very last people to successfully make it out of there.  Because you had insider information. Look at your rank, Mr. Senior Member. You were apart of this scheme from day one. Unfortunately, I wasn't smart enough to sell as soon as I got it out. :/ Still hodling.... |
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Whoever survives the Gox massacare has just quuintupled their BTC if they don't die of a heart attack first. If they sold at the ATH they'd have 9x (and climbing) as many BTC right now. I don't know if I should be jealous or happy. Depends how this all plays out. I was able to get 95% of my BTC out of Gox at $960. My last smallest transaction failed. I think I may have been one of the very last people to successfully make it out of there. |
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Whoever survives the Gox massacare has just quuintupled their BTC if they don't die of a heart attack first. |
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today is the 10th of February, any updates about this?
are there any new rules on ebay to protect seller and buyer? I wasn't able to find anything about this!
No, there is no update, and there will never be bcause main problem isnt "blockchain", it's paypals rule that "customer" is always right. I felt it on my own skin. Guy gough BTC, i delivered, and than he clamed that he does not recognize transaction, that his account was probably hacked, and he got his money back and i lost my BTC. Basicly, scam is not "oh noh i didint got my BTC", it's "OMG my credit card / paypal account got hacked, pls return my money" and there is nothing we can do. It's happening all over the ebay all the time, not only BTC, and in 99 oit of 100 cases beay / paypal sides with buyer. As simple as that. When you deal with PayPal, calculate certain percentage of this into your price and youll be good. Well it's just a matter of willing... If paypal recognize as 'sent' the transactions of the blockchain where there is the proof of delivery from address A to address B where every passage is tracked and approved by many poeole, there couldn't be any problem. Could be considered like a phisical object and tracked like a courier could with a pair of shoes... can they say: "OMG my credit card / paypal account got hacked, pls return my money even if i bought this pair of shoes?" ... They ask the seller the proof of tracking, like could be done with cryptocurrencies... even easier in this last case since, the proof will be there forever online and won't disappear after few months like any courier database. As said is just a porblem of willing, if they don't intend to, they'll never do it even if it could be the safest sysytem of the world... If they used that method, I feel there would still be problems with giving the buyer and seller the correct BTC address. Still many ways to scam new buyers and sellers. I'd prefer eBay to just act as an escrow and release the coins after payment. Seller is guaranteed payment and eBay deals with disputes and chargebacks. I have gone through this. He bought, I sent. He claimed his CC was stolen, disputed paypal. BUT Paypal sided with me the seller because the buyer is NOT covered for In-Tangible items.But buyer filed for Chargeback through CreditCard company and I got a 20$ fee plus the sale price. Luckily I got the fee price back by calling paypal, but for the sale price thats being disputed with paypal (me) vs credit card company. I've said many times PayPal bow down to CC chargebacks. And chargebacks usually will side with buyer. That's just how it works. I really doubt there's a BTC specialist to investigate these claims. I don't deliver BTC unless I'm 95% confident the buyer won't chargeback. On the bright side, you don't have to worry about PayPal reversing or closing your account for selling BTC now. That's half the battle. Chargebacks I can usually deal with. |
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I suppose this was an exception? I also sent USD wire transfer before the announcement. I gave up and contacted the bank. My bank had no problems getting it back in about 7 business days. Lost fees.
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Dammit. I was going to use this name for my coin. Just to discover someone already ruined it. Back to the drawing board.  |
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What is really bizarre in all this is that holders of GoxBTC can currently exchange them for realBTC at 0.78 at bitconbuilder.com, yet they are selling them at < .5 of stamp price. They could sell their goxbtc for realbtc, sell those on a reliable exchange, and get more $ than selling one gox, and not have to worry about insolbvency or waiting months for withdrawals.
How does this site work? |
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