Yeah, someone might be willing to buy all those accounts under value (due to some assumed risk & the effort to bother with it) and merge them. For that person's sake, it would be best if he/she lived in an income-tax free nation to avoid any tax complications. Anyway, I don't see any rule that explicitly states you can not transfer ownership of unverified accounts that you did not open. Only that you can't have a joint account. The MtGox verification pages opens up and states:


"Please be aware that your account is not currently verified.
All Mt. Gox user accounts are required to be verified in order to perform any deposits and withdrawals.
To become verified please complete the following form and submit identification documents to Mt.Gox. All fields must be filled out before a submission can be reviewed.
Required documentation :
- VALID Photo ID (Identity card, license, passport,...)
- Residence Proof (utility bill, tax return, insurance,... no bank statements)
ISSUED WITHIN 6 MONTHS
Attention : Your Mt.Gox account is PERSONAL. You must submit only your own documents. No family/friends co-ownership is allowed. If you want a "corporate" Mt.Gox account, please contact the support.
Note: Any information submitted is subject to Mt.Gox's privacy policy and as such will not be shared with any 3rd party, corporate partner, or agency external to Mt.Gox under any circumstances. Any documents collected will be accessed by Mt.Gox's staff only. Additional information may be found in our privacy policy. Be aware that once this form has been submitted, all attached documentation will be reviewed. This process may take up to 2 business days to complete, and you will be notified of the outcome of this review. One identity can only be linked to one account. If you have more than one account and wish to apply submit AML information for all of your accounts you will need to contact support to merge your accounts first."

I'd like to do a quick survey of those that have unverified MtGox accounts that can not withdraw your bitcoins becasue it's not verified. The survey is to see who will either not verify (effectively losing said bitcoins) OR who would be willing to take a loss on those holdings rather than verify. If you're one that would rather take a loss than verify, what percentage loss are you willing to take - post that in a comment.

I'll put up a poll. It will be interesting to see how much btc is out there in this situation. There may be a simple solution outside of verification - one which does not require taking MtGox to court.

So, please consider to participate in the survey above if you have an unverified account with bitcoins that can not be withdrawn due to a need to verify first.

They are slow to respond. Especially, if you are not verified - it seems.

Is your account verified?

Japan has laws on business practices. I think ethical business practice would be more important than how some might perceive it. Japan is a land that we have been branded with the image of being a people of honor - I've been there and think this is probably fitting. And it seems it would be obvious that a business practice that is perceived as 'bait and switch' - whether this is intentional or negligent - would be more frowned at by the Japanese people & legal system.

 I'm not into bitcoin for illegal purposes. You're right that one could interpret it that way, but one could interpret it in a few ways on how it seems to them.  All are just opinions among with one simplest possible motive. Basic privacy. One's identity should not be taken for granted. And giving up your identity to a company that didn't makes require it before is odd after they have taken your property without properly informing you - that is unethical if not grossly irresponsible, imo. There are plenty of people that don't trust MtGox at that level - so, they should not be treated as criminals if they protest & desire to force them to be ethical. The feeling of beating them in court might be worth it to many. Exchanges aren't even a good or practical place to hide or smoke up your bitcoins, there are already free mixing services that can obfuscated transaction histories.

You also have to realize that in Japanese court, one would obviously be revealing their identity. Even if you win your case, you would still be associated with the deposits you made since the accounts would probably go on some kind of public record - unless the court somehow kept your ID in secret. It's purely principle. Everyone knows someone that might more likely take the easy road and verify, but there are also those that get spitting angry when confronted with such either grossly negligent or intentionally deceptive business policies.

I'm just probing interest in the idea. I've not set out to pursue this yet, and may simply be one of the people that cave in and verify. Though, I'm still spitting mad at how they handle this.

For those that are not verified, but have bitcoins trapped in MtGox:

If a legal case were brought up against MtGox in Tokyo, would you be willing to write a letter which would identify yourself only to be used as evidence for a legal case to sue MtGox? The end result is to force MtGox to allow those with bitcoins in accounts to withdraw them without verification. I'm not even sure why MtGox requires verification when accounts can only deposit and withdraw bitcoins.

Also, would you be willing to pay the lawyer(s) upwards of half of your property recovered, or something like BTC5 - whichever is less?

I'm not so sure this message will be read by many. I might have to add a new survey.

Can you withdraw bitcoins from the MtGox account?

Looks good rusty.

Would you make a chart? LR isn't updating the one on his website. Ifso, my input on how one chart might be layed out:

Combine as LR does, the hash-rate and difficulty onto one chart. But do this so that the Y-axis of the left and right sides are proportionately scaled. For example, let's say the lowest value on the Y axis on one side is 100GH/s and the top of the Y-axis is 100TH/s. That is 1000x increase from top to bottom on the axis. Then, make sure the other Y-axis scale has the same proportion. So, it might read Difficulty 30.5 million at the lowest part of the scale. Ifso, the top of the scale should read 30.5 billion. The reason is simply to visually see how fast each changes compared to the other.

Maybe, even make a chart of accumulating ROI based on dividends. I've kinda given up for now on the idea that bonds can be sold easily for what they were purchased, unless these bitcoin prices remain high, and LR buys disproportionately more hardware on the 25% returns... something I have not though enough about, which could save LR from being like a ROI quagmire.

Bitstamp: $674 !

MtGox: $785 !!

China market is equivalent of $1010 !!!

When Labrat is surprised with a new idea:

lol ... funny gif ... cute.

If LR manages to get 1GH per bond online by December. And difficulty increases at ~20% per cycle (about +73% per month). In the below, the cummulative return is in bitcoins. But the hasrate is set at 100,000GH (that was done to see results in the return as greater than zero). So, divide what you see in the monthly return of December by 100,000, and that is what 1GH/s should yield for the total of December. It reads 1710. Divided that by 100,000 and you see BTC0.0171/GH.

Assuming BTC.15 bonds, that is 11.4% return on investment for December. And a bit over 6% more in January, unless LR get's more hardware online by then.

If LR delivered 500MH/bond, then scale that value down proportionately (in the case of 500MH, half the return).

Questions:
How long is ages? How do you know your account is locked from sending in documents - is it stated as such on your login screen?
Are you saying, it is now impossible to verify your account because they won't even accept your paperwork because it is locked?

Do you have to mail in documents? or Do they accept emailed scans of your documents?

Yes, indeed. Well, at least that's about half of what it has been. People here might be able to squeeze by and break even via dividends alone after-all.

It is interesting that difficulty jump-size would reduce by about 15% percentage points two times in a row. It could be another sequecne... like reducing from prior difficulty jump-size by 30% the next reduced by 50%... then the next might be something like 75%....which would equate to 15% x 0.25 = +3.75% jump..or small skip... feeding the dream.   But I liked your trend better, with the negative percentage following that.

Thanks grnbrg.  A glimmer of humanity in the LRM circle of friends. You gained respect with me - for whatever that's worth to ya.

How do you mine 3Gh/s with only a laptop? Are you using any USB miners?

As a developer, you would know that if you are automatically trading on someone's trading account, that your software would have access to their account password and login name.
So, in terms of whether this is a giant scam or not, it would be disingenuous to not discuss that as an obvious weakness.

You might be legitimate, and if that is true, then I hope your system works and you do well. But as it stands from my perspective, there is no guarantees while the software has that kind of access to people's trading accounts. More verification would be needed about the software and the developers. One way you could add credibility is to show a video of your development team, introducing themselves and talking about the product...etc... And even that is only a start for what kind of verification I would prefer.

Another idea would be to go live on a website with your trading system... Showing or even selling live trading signals as alerts to people. If the signals worked, I'm sure many people would buy the signal subscription. If they didn't work, then that would be a fundamental problem.

You could also deal with those that will wire you the money. There are people out there, if you look. I know on localbitcoins there are some people with good reputations. The website acts as escrow. So, your bitcoins go into escrow, and the other party wires you money. Once you confirm receipt of the funds, the escrow will release the bitcoins to the other person. Do it a small amount at a time so you don't stress as much - MtGox has done that kind of emotional damage on people. Disclosure: I don't do that, I just have heard that it works. And I'm only in Gox to trade the ups & downs, not to go to fiat.

Would you next time rather sell locally? It would probably have less headaches. I never joined an exchange to withdraw fiat. I simply joined to swing trade.

Congrats! I bet you feel relieved - did you have to pay an extortion fee? BTW: Did you have a verified account?

Please, take the poll in the linked thread. I'm being poll fanatic right now. Trying to get a profile on Gox's operation.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=332420.0