Possible, but I don't think so. If it were true, they would not likely have refunded anyone. I think the images and addresses used by Tom were real. Even his vehicle license plate number which we know from photos The only question is, when/if to start legal action. Many seem ready. Already at least 80% of polled people owed are ready to do something if asked to cooperate.

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On second thought, this may not be very hopeful at all. If he is starting at the top and you're order was maybe 30(max 200 something) from the first preorder, that would seem too indicate Tom has only just begun with the refunds. He said there were "thousands" to do...so why did it take this long to get so few down the list?

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That's about what I thought. But didn't realize you were in the top 30. Anyway, my perspective was that maybe it means Tom started from an end of the list (among the first) and is working his way down the list like a plan. However, I haven't heard anyone else claiming to receive a refunds lately. Then again, I haven't been paying close attention this weekend.

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No. Simply had no reason to consider it probable that you put your order number in another post. Anyway, it's a little bit promising that your order number is somewhat low.

Thanks.

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Good point. Though, I don't know if Tom ever setup to accepted BitPay. Did he?  I thought he only took bitcoins direct.

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Disclaimer: I'm not a legal expert or anything, and am not giving any legal advice. So, everything I say about legal stuff could be wrong.

It's an agreement between bASIC and the paying customer. So, what matters most is the value of the product (USD) offered when the contract agreement was made (i.e. when you paid him whatever), not what you gave bASIC.  For example, bASIC could have asked for tomatoes or a thimble full of salt, and promised to deliver the product (based in USD). If you gave him the tomatoes (or salt), and he failed to deliver the product, then he broke the contract and would owe you something. If you took him to court and won, you would be awarded the value of the promised exchange in USD. Bitcoin shouldn't need to be explained for a case to be effective. It seems the only explanation that might be made would be to appease a judge's side curiosity - not to make the case solid.

Maybe I missed your point though. Sorry. And you might be right, since there will need to be proof of delivering bitcoins to bASIC. That will be figured out if/when it comes to it, and shouldn't be too difficult to prove. There are a couple people in the area that might be able to do this, or maybe someone that can travel there. Thanks for the input on that.

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It's encouraging that some appear to be getting refunds all the sudden, but I'm not convinced this means all will get a refund. There are too many questionable issues with his business fiasco, and to pretend this is the beginning of a full refunds process might set up a loss of time and create apathy among those still owed.

If/when it comes down to it, it will likely go like this: A lawyer accepts the case (that so far appears to be easy - no further comment there at this time). Then receipts and contact info are collected from people in a private invitation only forum (not this forum). However, to get invited to the private forum, it has been considered to briefly screen every claimant on phone to verify that they are who they say they are. This is simply to mitigate anyone from sabotaging the case somehow. Even though I think it would be difficult to sabotage, since it appears to be pretty cut and dry legal case. I don't want to get into any more than that. If Tom wants to act wisely, he will refund everyone on he ever took money from in the bASIC fiasco within the next week, that is probably the only way he can prevent a legal storm from falling down on his home. Also, he can do himself a service, perhaps buying some more grace time, by actually communicating truthfully with the people he owes.

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Final Poll Results:
Locations of those that have property owed from bASIC:

USA (outside New York state)    11 (23.4%)
USA (inside New York state)    2 (4.3%)
Canada    10 (21.3%)
Europe    21 (44.7%)
Central or South America    1 (2.1%)
Oceania    1 (2.1%)
Asia    1 (2.1%)
Africa    0 (0%)
Total Voters: 47

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Same request:

What was your order number, or if you don't want to say, maybe approximate it.
e.g. If it was Order# 123, you could type 12x, or worse 1xx.

Let's see if there is a trend.

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What was your order number, or if you don't want to say, maybe approximate it.
e.g. If it was Order# 123, you could type 12x, or worse 1xx.

Let's see if there is a trend.

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Something I'd like to know for sure is, can BTC sent to a unique wallet address be traced thereafter, and determined to have been exchanged for cash on a big exchanges (e.g. MtGox)?
Any BTC tech aficionados care to take a swing at answering that, at least in theory?

My guess is that only a subsequent change in wallet address can be detected. But not any type of transaction taking place. I'm not familiar with how the MtGox process works exactly.

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Gleanable from places in the forums & outside. Here are a couple outside:

http://web.archive.org/web/20110203011330/http://sites.google.com/site/votevanriper/

http://www.satoshisuperstars.com/cablepair/

But I'm really making more out of it by saying this, because it wouldn't require a lot of tech savvy to prepare a list of your customers and how much is owed. Then simply entering in the amount in your bitcoin wallet and clicking send. And it might be nice if you send an email to said person you sent bitcoins to to let them know.

I don't hate Tom. He is even redeemable. I just don't like his business practice. Makes past BFL, as many perceived it in it's earlier days, seem world class.

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I'm curious if people might want to go all the way and take him out legally. If he was so tech savvy, he could have distributed the BTC funds in a few hours.

Can you imagine then if he actually had products to ship how long it may have taken to ship?

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LOL!

New poll above. For those that have property claims with bASIC. Please choose from the list where you are located in the world.
It's not entirely random. There is a reason for asking this.

Thanks!

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Final Poll Results:

Question:    About how much does bASIC owe you? (this might help estimate total property claims)

$   600    11 (11.2%)
$ 1,100    22 (22.4%)
$ 1,700    3 (3.1%)
$ 2,200    12 (12.2%)
$ 3,300    10 (10.2%)
$ 4,400    7 (7.1%)
$ 5,500    1 (1%)
$ 11,000    4 (4.1%)
$ 16,500    2 (2%)
$ 22,000    11 (11.2%)
More than $ 25,000    15 (15.3%)    [Note: This option was added about a day after the poll began]
Total Voters: 98

Summary: Poll indicates at least $825,600 taken from at least 98 persons.

...

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More now. See the updates on the original post.

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This can all mean only one thing.....

Phinnaeus Gage .... IS ....Tom!!!!

 

Name:   cablepair [a.k.a. Tom]
Posts:   2308
Position:   VIP
Date Registered:   April 30, 2011, 11:40:41 PM
Last Active:   January 23, 2013, 04:16:33 AM

Name:   Phinnaeus Gage
Posts:   10761
Position:   Hero Member
Date Registered:   June 16, 2011, 03:38:53 PM
Last Active:   Today at 05:59:07 AM


Sorry... couldn't resist.

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PuertoLibre was responding to oceans - not me.

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--- Poll Closing Soon ---
Last chance to take the poll. Results so far:

About how much does bASIC owe you? (this might help estimate total property claims)
$   600    11 (11.7%)
$ 1,100    22 (23.4%)
$ 1,700    3 (3.2%)
$ 2,200    12 (12.8%)
$ 3,300    10 (10.6%)
$ 4,400    7 (7.4%)
$ 5,500    1 (1.1%)
$ 11,000    4 (4.3%)
$ 16,500    2 (2.1%)
$ 22,000    10 (10.6%)
More than $ 25,000    12 (12.8%) [Note: This choice was added about a day after the poll started]
Total Voters: 94

Total owed based on those polled to present: $728,600

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