If you are running the older version and need to download the newer version of Electrum make sure you ONLY go to https://electrum.org/
Don't google it. Don't Bing it. Don't Yahoo it. Just go to https://electrum.org

Don't trust any other thing or any other link, or if you are running an older version anything that pops up telling you to download a newer version from someplace else.

-Dave

Or, do people actually fall for this stuff?
I give you sumcoin:

https://twitter.com/SumcoinIndex?lang=en

A coin that has no free wallet. You have to buy it on Google Play / iTunes
https://slicewallet.org/

You have to fill out a google form to apply to mine on their pool:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScjVseZCjgk21BguY50V3CT_64290C07rTQmi03ZtoZoP2pEQ/viewform

They actually threaten to sue people who mine it elsewhere or even discuss it:
https://twitter.com/SumcoinIndex/status/1116942947969200128

How do people actually fall for this?

d - DaveF

Thanks,
Dave

The BUTTON is refresh.

The way I showed the OP to get to it will remove all transactions and re-query the mycelium servers for ALL the transactions on your addresses.
Try it.
With the refresh any new transactions it sees will come in.
With the reload you can actually see all your transactions disappear and come back.
This way if something is compromised with the local database it will fix it.

-Dave

Just followed your link.

A bunch don't even exist anymore too.

Needs major updating.

-Dave

If it's free it's for me.
1 Random spot please.

Thanks,
Dave

Been in Vegas for years.

http://thetipsyrobot.com/#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPHEBeNfrYw

-Dave

There is no way to reverse the transaction.
There are no funds to "recover" you have them.
You just have to get to the address that the change was sent to. The ledger has it.

-Dave

d - DaveF

-Dave

After sleeping on it I wonder if having them labeled the way they are and how they are linked is part of the problem.
Should trust & feedback be 2 separate things?
If you look at a profile you see trust. If you click on the link in the profile it brings you to feedback that can about anything.

I can be utterly trustworthy but still an utterly abrasive asshole.

Should it be broken up into 2 separate things?

Trust = If he / she will do what they say they will do, ship what they say they will ship, pay what they say they will pay, etc.
Feedback = Do you really want do deal with this person?

I have had dealings with people with red trust for various reasons. But if they sent me 4 quarters for my dollar as agreed then that's good and worthy of positive trust.
If they at the same time are doxing people and being a jerk on the forum, then they should have some massive negative feedback. Still good trust.

So we could in theory have 3 things.

Merit = Are they good posters. Help out people. Useful to the board.
Trust = Can you trust them with money / items / etc.
Feedback = do you really want to deal with them. Because even if the 1st 2 are good you might still want to avoid.

Now I know most of what I have been saying would be related to sales and other things in terms of trust and feedback. Because I could have massive negatives in both Trust & Feedback but still be useful in the Mining Support board.

But it comes into play in other areas when just dealing with other people. We are all anonymous behind a keyboard the more separate data points about how we behave can only be a good thing in helping how others see with us and deal with us.

As for the people who sell collectibles when they sell hardware and the like, unless we really want to turn this into eBay / Amazon I think the comments you & Steamtyme made are correct. It is really DYOR.

Just bouncing things around my brain.

Enjoy the weekend everyone.

-Dave

So after not spending any real time in meta I have been poking around here for the last couple of weeks (even made a few posts)
This is just my view on everything going around about trust & the default trust.
[Full disclosure I only have the default set]

Anyway.... I have to ask how much it matters by itself without doing your own research.

Case in point. I am going to pick a random victim sidehack [sorry dude just need a hardware person to make this point]
Looking at his feedback. It's 100% perfect. He has been selling his amazingly excellent hardware for years now. I have bought from him, I have sold to him. If he sent a post saying send me 1BTC and I'll send you a 200th miner that runs @ 1500 Watts I would not even blink, I would just send it. THAT IS HOW MUCH I TRUST HIM.
Now.. He sends me a PM saying "Yo Dave, I took in a beautiful mint 2011 Casascius  I know you like them, I took it in trade for 1BTC I'll sell it to you for the same" I would have to think long and hard about it. Not that I don't trust him, I do 100%. But what does he know about collectibles? Is it really mint? Is it authentic or one of the forgeries that have been seen? Is it vulnerable to the defcon hack from years ago? etc. So what is feedback worth at that point? You know that YES you are going to get what you bought from him. But you don't know if it is what he says it is, because he may not know.

It works the other way also I 1000% trust krogothmanhattan. Would ship him coins & collectibles w/o getting paid 1st, would send him BTC to buy collectibles w/o worrying about escrow. Would I buy a used antminer from him. Yet again, have to think. Can he tell if there are issues with it the way sidehack can? How well can he take it apart and put it back together to clean it....no idea.

This kind of comes from years of seeing this on eBay. A really good quality seller, with 1000s of positive feedbacks selling PC parts has a few "other" items to sell. And poof you just got a "mint condition" cylinder head for a 2007 Honda VFR800 at amazing price. Except for the fact that it's warped and for a 2002. He didn't know, it's how he got it from someone he trusted and is just moving it in good faith. [This may be a real life experience I admit nothing]

So yes, the trust system is important. But, in the state it's in now you really can't rely on it without doing your own research.

Do we need to make this more obvious for newer people?

And a bit of what I said on another post.

Dave's logic behind making this feedback information more public and with more information attached to it. --> Anything we can do to help remove scammers is good. Anything we can do to make scammers lives more difficult is good. If a new person does not know and does not look to find out that's on them.  If they don't know and we do but don't tell them or make it difficult to find out, that's on us.

Counter argument --> We are not your mom. It's not our job.  

So, with this long rambling post coming to an end. Is there a better way? If so what is it?

I have no idea, but I do think it needs to be discussed.

-Dave

There have been vulnerabilities disclosed in both of the "big 2" hardware wallets

XKCD summed it up best however:



-Dave

I know I have said this before in other posts, but when doing work on the computer DON'T MAKE THE BACKUP ON THAT PC. PUT IT ON A REMOVABLE STORAGE DEVICE.
USB stick / SD card / whatever. Once you are done and you are sure the funds are safe, you can wipe the removable storage.

-Dave

Updated.

Jean_Luc could you put a link to my post in the 1st post so people don't have to go through 15 of the 20 pages to find it. (someone sent me a PM about that)

Also, if anyone wants something added w/o posting in this thread or if you do post it and I miss it feel free to drop me a PM.

Thanks,
Dave

It's not IMO the hacked coins -> you -> someone else -> exchange -> someone else -> me that really concerns me.

It's the hacked coins -> loaded coin that I buy
or
Hacked coins -> mixer with known bad actors -> loaded coin that I buy

That concerns me.

There are tons of coins that have bad history that have been passed from person to person with no problems.
Same way there are tons of money out there with serial #s that the governments know go back to shady people.

But as I said in the 1st post. The BTC on your physical coin tends to stay there. Even now, there are addresses that have coins that are being watched.
If they move out then those addresses are going to be monitored. If they go from hacker to me to you to someone else to someone else again. The last person has some form of deniability.

But one TX from the "evil" address, if it's a place that has KYC and reules and regulations, you are going to have to explain that you bought this coin from someone on a forum way back when and now that BTC is at $100k and you want to cash out your .1 that it was not you who stole it and had been sitting on it for years.

Go get some $100 bills that are known to be directly traced back to a drug ring and put them in your bank account. Let me know how that works out for you.

Quoting myself from a few posts back:

I don't think anyone saying anything on this thread is really going to change anybody's view / opinion. But I DO think that it's good to put it out there.

-Dave

I been slacking in updating my post of card speeds.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5112311.msg50823897#msg50823897
I hope to carve out some time tomorrow or Friday to go though the thread and update it.
Sorry for not keeping it up.

-Dave

There are tons of tainted coins, and will be tons more. You can't help it.
This is more about knowing that they might be tainted and determining a value or a harm to value.
It's nice to think that coins fresh from P2Pool are the same as coins from slush are the same as coins that came from who know where.
But in the end they might not be. Do you really want the coins from the cryptopia hack? How about the ones from the  Binance hack?

5 years from now after they have been traded 100s or 1000s of times it matters less.
But if you just stole 1000BTC think how easy it would be to come up with a nice set of coins and start loading them with the stolen BTC after running it though a mixer 1st.
By the time most people figured it out you are long gone perhaps with a larger profit if you made some money selling your coins.

I guess I just don't trust a lot of people krogothmanhattans scam / breach thread does not help.


Coin control as I said before.

-Dave

Up until 18.0 the core wallet had coin control, Electrum has coin control as do others.

I don't really think we need virgin coins for ones that are loaded by us. It would be nice but that becomes more and more difficult.
Does it demand a premium, perhaps, that is up to the buyer.

But for coin makers that do funding, yes I think we as a community need to be aware that people do bad things.

Or, as the great Dr. Cox has said. People are Bastard Coated Bastards with Bastard Filling

https://youtu.be/FTbgvYPVdXE?t=31

So, yeah, if maker "A" funds with coins that can be traced straight back to antpool or wherever. But maker "B" just has a pool of BTC that they are funding coins from then perhaps maker "A" deserves more for their coin. I'm not talking $1000s more but yes, you put in some work to get cleaner coins, then yes you get a bit more for your effort.

I don't think anyone saying anything on this thread is really going to change anybody's view / opinion. But I DO think that it's good to put it out there.
Goes back to the thread that Krogothmanhattan started that is now pinned about breached / scammed coin makers. Knowledge is power, giving people insights can't hurt.

Always be aware that we are talking REAL money and you have to be responsible and educate yourself as best you can.

-Dave

Yes & no.
If I decide to make a coin and fund it I can take "my BTC" that I have received from various people and places and use that to fund them.
OR
I can buy from Gemini / Coinbase / etc. and use those to load the coins.

So if something is wrong, you as the person who bought the coin and then is having issues casing it out can have some backup. KYC sucks, places that take a large cut to go fiat <-> BTC suck. If I am buying a coin loaded with 1BTC I would kind of like to be able to, in case of emergency cash it in, without grief.

Taking another step.  Many pools have their hotwallet addresses known. Going from one of them -> my address -> coin is also somewhat safe.

1CK6KHY6MHgYvmRQ4PAafKYDrg1ejbH1cE... is slush
18cBEMRxXHqzWWCxZNtU91F5sbUNKhL5PX is viabtc

If you can trace back a line to them with only 1 or 2 hops it's not a bad thing either.
F2Pool doing a payout:
https://btc.com/fcf583717e88f64cd083c4d73ddfcec5958278a1a99c2507993c824da8a05a0f
If I see funding from there I know it's good.

-Dave

Pulling a bit from what I said here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5134233.msg50736781#msg50736781


And Here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5134233.msg50705669#msg50705669


Now that this happened:
https://bestmixer.io/

Do we need to have a discussion about how people are funding coins? Or ask for at least a history of funds?
I don't know how we would do it on a P2P level, but from the larger coin makers is it worth an ask or an attempt to setup a process?

Case in point, if I was using bestmixer and used funds I mixed with them to fund a coin that I just sold to you, do you REALLY want it?
Yes, it's nice to say "whatever dude, BTC is BTC" but we know that is not true.
Something happens and you have to liquidate to fiat for some reason.
Do you really want to worry about some place be it Coinbase / Gemini / Kracken or similar asking you why you are cashing out BTC that came from a mixer that was seized by the government?

I know I don't need that in my life.

-Dave